eerockk
Knight of the Obsidian Order
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 662
Posts: 3540
TPLA Lx Apprentice - Nova 7
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 06:58:01 PM » |
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I don't support it, but it is a logical thing in Star Wars.
It makes the seedy side of the galaxy that much seedier... |
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Bellicose - Prophecy V3 - Overlord - Archon 2.1 - Guardian
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Tasardur
Nerf Herder
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 225
Posts: 2275
As a Jedi, I prefer Lightside points.
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 07:05:06 PM » |
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As much as I'd like to spend the next 30 minutes thoughtfully typing out my own opinion, you all have pretty much stated it on your own. There is no need for me to repeat what has already been said.
So, for sake of simplicity, I agree.
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 "The really bad words are filtered but thats about it. We dont bitch too much about casual swearing, but dont be an ass about it." - Ultra Dominix v2 SY |
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ed_ification
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: -385
Posts: 4171
Darth Cronfios
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 07:29:43 PM » |
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But that is writing done AFTER the fact, to justify the portrayal. So it's become an easy stereotype, because "that's how it has been."
And again - if a lady chooses to do Talon cosplay, more power to her. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with writing/drawing/casting a female person who happens to be mainstream attractive in addition to EVERYTHING else that she is.
I would like to see us get away from the objectification side, however - it gets a leetle creepy here at times.
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Sabers:
MR Vader - ANH
MR Vader - ESB
Dark War Glaive - Blazing Red - "Belligerence"
Standard Issue Grab Bag - Guardian Blue - "Bastion"
2 Shock LEs - Violet - "Perseverance" and "Integrity"
Archon - "Insight"
Dark Initiate - "Harbinger"
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Darth Kitsune
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: -236
Posts: 1322
There is no Peace, there is only Passion...
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 07:31:39 PM » |
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Not really writing done after. I mean, it was obvious in the original trilogy that there were signs of slavery and other realistic notions in the Star Wars Universe. And that was before the Expanded Universe.
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eerockk
Knight of the Obsidian Order
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 662
Posts: 3540
TPLA Lx Apprentice - Nova 7
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 07:52:04 PM » |
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This started with comics LONG before Star Wars saw the light of day. It's about the money; everything else is just an excuse. Sex sells, but they never out and say that. It's like striking workers - even if the issue isn't just 'about the money', it is.
Whatever debates ensue from scantily-clad characters (of both sexes), the writers/producers are the ones walking to the bank.
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Bellicose - Prophecy V3 - Overlord - Archon 2.1 - Guardian
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ed_ification
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: -385
Posts: 4171
Darth Cronfios
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 08:00:31 PM » |
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Instances of slavery seen on screen =/= a cultural heritage of slavery.
That was something introduced after the fact.
And saying that it's about money is true. But we, as consumers, can vote with our wallets, and say, "We'd like to see better, please."
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Sabers:
MR Vader - ANH
MR Vader - ESB
Dark War Glaive - Blazing Red - "Belligerence"
Standard Issue Grab Bag - Guardian Blue - "Bastion"
2 Shock LEs - Violet - "Perseverance" and "Integrity"
Archon - "Insight"
Dark Initiate - "Harbinger"
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Darth Kitsune
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: -236
Posts: 1322
There is no Peace, there is only Passion...
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 08:03:35 PM » |
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I don't know. Like I said before, it's all opinionated. To me, there is logic behind it outside of the wallet and market. I enjoy the sense of reality it brings to Star Wars. It helps show that the Star Wars universe isn't an ideal place to be, and gives it humanism.
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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 08:10:12 PM » |
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I personally dislike chainmail bikinis, as well as any female superhero costume that shows a lot of skin, or just anything that shows a lot of skin in general. It just drives people crazy, especially the teenagers, if you catch my drift.
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eerockk
Knight of the Obsidian Order
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 662
Posts: 3540
TPLA Lx Apprentice - Nova 7
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« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 08:37:18 PM » |
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For the same reason things like Honey Boo Boo or Jersey Shore / Britney Spears / Christina Aguilera / Justin Bieber / etc. exist is because of the fact that the wallets are fuller than the critical thought that goes in to emptying these wallets on an equally empty product.
The cycle will continue - money for sex, sex for money, etc. as long as the bulk of society refuses to think critically and keeps forking over the cash money. There's a sucker born every minute, as the saying goes, and the sucker this time is cultural intelligence.
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Bellicose - Prophecy V3 - Overlord - Archon 2.1 - Guardian
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reiperx
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 71
Posts: 1713
Do you serve a purpose or purposely serve?
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2012, 04:08:13 AM » |
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I agree, I will admit most of my character models that I make, do tend to have a sex appeal to them (its actually fairly hard to find decent female 3D models and clothing that aren't overly sexy), but I do what I can to tone them down a lot, unless that character is specifically supposed to be like Darth Talon or something, a seducer.
I don't find it offensive personally, but I've also been exposed to things like that a lot (both growing up, and now doing photography and 3D work) but at least with my work, I try to make a very clear line between my beauty and trying to push the limit to how much to show.
So far my favorite model shoot I've done, the girl was covered up most of the time (she was wearing an orange jumpsuit with a dark grey tanktop under it for a prison shoot) and it ended up being amazing. Unfortunately I'm waiting for my model to get my photos back to me since it was the last set I did, and my originals were on my HDD when it crashed (model has a copy of all 2500+ shots though, so I'll get them back next time I get my hair cut).
But overall, the industry is primarily targeted towards younger males (teen to YA) it seems, and sex sells.
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Jabari
Knight Major
Force Alignment: 57
Posts: 358
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2012, 06:03:58 AM » |
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Lost my long reply, but suffice to say that if men in speedos seems icky, don't put women in them either. You see plenty of women in cantinas/clubs with net pants with strategically placed seams and never do you see a male character with even his shirt off. (except Anakin...when he's in bed. Oh, and that one rancor handler.)
Also, if you ever see a picture of a normal (read: not rail thin) woman in a slave Leia costume, there will always be comments that she's too fat for the metal bikini. I have never seen a picture of an actually "fat slave Leia". Nobody ever makes comments about overweight Anakins and Obi-Wans. So not everyone has their own personal trainer like a chiseled movie star. Who cares? Dress like your favorite character anyway. Wearing a metal bikini in public takes far more self-confidence than a set of bulky robes.
Double standards. Can we get rid of them?
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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2012, 06:19:49 AM » |
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I agree with the majority of responses to this post. I have no problem with apprechating the female form, and it the character is well written, I can see the photo that started this discussion as being appropiate. The key is the photo exists because the charcter is developed in such a way so that photo fits. Not lets have a sexy photo and write the back story to justify it.
The bigger problem is that in sci-fi and comics it often works the other way around, the female characters are often poorly written and exist for purely sex appeal standards. I have no problem with sex and sex appeal driven character, if the writing behind the character leads to that, instead of being driven by that.
As for the double standard comment, what double standard? When Magic Mike came out its not like there was an out cry amoung women asking where the real men with beer bellies were in the film. Brad Pitt is a sex symbol, most popular actors have six packs, this isn't a man vs. women issue its an issue of sexualizing characters. The Sci-Fi/Comic venue tends to objectify women because its core base is men. As a culture we should not accept this approach, but this isn't a men vs. women divide this is an explotation of either sex for profit aimed at who ever is paying.
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It is not the side of the force we chose, but our actions that define us.
Dark Liberator-AS
Phantasm Staff -DVA
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« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2012, 06:26:06 AM » |
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I agree with the majority of responses to this post. I have no problem with apprechating the female form, and it the character is well written, I can see the photo that started this discussion as being appropiate. The key is the photo exists because the charcter is developed in such a way so that photo fits. Not lets have a sexy photo and write the back story to justify it.
The bigger problem is that in sci-fi and comics it often works the other way around, the female characters are often poorly written and exist for purely sex appeal standards. I have no problem with sex and sex appeal driven character, if the writing behind the character leads to that, instead of being driven by that.
As for the double standard comment, what double standard? When Magic Mike came out its not like there was an out cry amoung women asking where the real men with beer bellies were in the film. Brad Pitt is a sex symbol, most popular actors have six packs, this isn't a man vs. women issue its an issue of sexualizing characters. The Sci-Fi/Comic venue tends to objectify women because its core base is men. As a culture we should not accept this approach, but this isn't a men vs. women divide this is an explotation of either sex for profit aimed at who ever is paying.
I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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Master VorNach
Resident Master
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 176
Posts: 777
Mendicus esset tamen suus candeo.
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« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2012, 09:57:06 AM » |
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reiperx
Knight Commander
Force Alignment: 71
Posts: 1713
Do you serve a purpose or purposely serve?
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2012, 10:06:06 AM » |
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I do admit, I am a darth Talon fan, but it isn't really what she wears on why I like the character.
1) I love her color scheme and tattoos
2) I love the character itself.
But my favorite females from the SW universe are:
Saaba
Mara Jade
Jaina Solo
While both Jaina and Mara are attractive, they've never really been shown in the typical skimpy stuff that a lot of others are known for. But all of them are a) strong willed, b) leaders, and c) them being female didn't really affect their characters much at all (other than Mara falling for Luke, but that wasn't really a weakness or anything).
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