Saber Forum

Hi all,

I couldn't find a thread devoted to sparring injury stories, so thought I might start one. Last night my little nephew came by and was absolutely blown away by my sabers, so we had to take them out back and duel. One great strike to the face later left me bloody with a nice gash across the bridge of the nose. What do you say to an 8 year old after that? All I could think of was, "Control. Control! You must learn control!"

While your injury was tragic, your response was priceless.  Well played.

As soon as I saw "Last night my little nephew came by" I knew this was gonna be painful...

You must STRESS no head shots and no uncontrolled hard swinging.

I'm just glad it was me and not him that took a solid hit. I know he wasn't going for the head, it was just a wild swing that I let through. I was in a low stance so, instead of going for the arm/torso, which is what I'm sure he meant to do, it went right across the face. I have officially gotten my butt handed to me by an eight year old.  ;D

Later on, when there were a couple more kiddos out there, I supervised everything and stressed safety repeatedly; no head shots, watch your hands, watch your sister's hands, it's not a baseball bat, control, control, control! Your'e absolutely right, Vex; when they're 8, 9, and 10, with no martial training, you have to expect very little in the way of control. Inadvertent wild swings happen, and even when they're just clashing there are bound to be lots of near misses to little hands.

Hand shots are about the only thing that has happened to me so far. Your hand between a heavy grade blade and an aluminum hilt is so not nice.

Epic 10 minute duel against my friend who wields a staff saber.. ends with a bold attack on both our parts, except he ended up hitting me in the crotch.

Then, end of the night, we have a fun free for all that culminates with me taking down one of our sith, while another sith did a running slide to whack my side (perfectly fine, gentle strike( then the staff user from before swings in and somehow, does another crotch shot. Que laying on the ground, wanting to facepalm.

Thankfully I was fine, despite some soreness. I'm still lecturing him on controlling his attacks!

I've been stabbed in the eye, and took a pretty hard hit to the temple... no gashes but plenty of shiners and bruises to count for. Funny thing is... on both of those bad ones... I made contact first, and I got hit from my sparring partner's follow through!

Cracked in the mouth by a metal hilt during choreography. Nothing broken, but my lower lip was cut up on the outside and inside.

And I chipped his hilt, too

^^THIS

yeah thats about all ive gotten... bloody knuckle once...
I took an especially hard shot to the pinky once... thought i broke it... but i didnt... just a bad bruise...

my brother got me in the eye. No joke. Since his entire strategy consists of "small wild swings and unblockable hard stabs," it was no surprise that he used his idiot-no-jutsu and nearly put my eye out.

eye protection is definitely good.

Friend of mine has a custom made saber and in one of our group gatherings he snapped someones $20 hasbro saber.  The person didn't know their saber was snapped when they turned towards me, got a nice gash on my upper arm from it.  Besides that most I've had are some bruises and red marks. 

Ooh I almost forgot one of my best injuries lol I was dueling with one of my buddies, and I started to bolt up to the deck. The stairway up to the deck is dilapidated. So it takes some leaping and such to get up there, so I'm sprinting up this stairway, and I managed to catch a sharp corner with my chest. Took a pretty good chunk out, I was hoping for a nice scar... but I never scar

Hand shots, knee shots, took a couple to the head, the standard.  One time we were sparring and my opponent's tip came off when i blocked, flew forward and hit me in the face.

Oh, and I broke a rib once.

I took an arrow to the knee.... seriously though, I've only had some busted knuckles and a painful strike to the unmentionables (thanks for that, SOTJ ;)).

if you're not bleeding, you're not training.   OLD SCHOOL!   ;D

That has been my philosophy for some time as well.

M.J. split my lip open.

It wasn't her fault actually, I wasn't holding my defense sturdy enough so when she hit, my saber whipped back and split my lip.

She was very upset and kept saying sorry, I said "If you're going to play "Combat" be prepared to get hit."

Minor wound and now I've learned a lesson, the hard way, but it's learned; I think most people learnt hat way. ;D

I've incurred hits to the hands, knuckles, wrists, knees. I was dueling with my friend, and I slashed at him, and when he blocked it, the tip flew off, hit a tree, bounced back and nailed him in the head. We couldn't stop laughing for about 10 minutes.

I am the co-founder and leader of currently the biggest saber group in the kentucky/ohio/west virginia tri-state area.  During our full swing summer months we regularly have 20 vs 20 and even 30 vs 30 games in our local park.  Ill give you my thoughts on this from my experience starting with 5 people and ending up with the 60+ members we have now.

1. Waiver - Excellent idea. When we were just a group of friends, it was not needed. However when you have strangers showing up to play and train, you can't blindly put your faith in people even if they are a part of our wonderful community. Secondly, freak accidents happen. It sucks, but they do.  We had one of our 9 year old members get the bottom half of his incisor teeth chipped off. Wasn't his fault, or really anyone elses.  It was slick out (rained the day before) and during a big group fight he slipped and skidded right as an enemy was pushing forward and they kinda fell into each other. When hilt meets mouth, the metal hilt wins every time.

2. Using the Park - We also play in our local City Park. There will be 2 groups of people that could potentially give you a hard time. The local police officers, and the park employee's.  The single best piece of advice i could give you would be to TALK TO THEM.  When our members started increasing the first thing me and my cofounder did was go to the local park office and sit down and have a talk with them.  We explained who we were, what we were doing, and why we were doing it.  Turns out when they realized we were trying to give kids (and adults) a place to go have fun as opposed to other more troublesome activites they could be doing..... they were more than happy to let us use the park.  Now during the summer time we have extended usage hours. Park closes at 11, but we have permission to stay until 1am ish as long as we dont park our cars inside the gated area they have to lock up.  Secondly, the police. Make friends with them. They can be your greatest asset if you let them.  We also talked to the police as they regularly patrol the park and told them about our meeting with the park officials.  Not only are they supper supportive, but have gotten us out of sticky situations, and the evening/night shift guys regularly take lunch in the park and watch us play. For instance, we had a group of homeless guys hanging around near us, and i did NOT want them near the 20 kids 14 and under i was responsible for. They were drunk and saying inappropriate things, and really causing problems.  I gave the station a call, and 1 minute and 45 seconds later the officers showed up and handled the situation.

It is probably one of the most rewarding things i have ever done in my life. I hope you enjoy your group!  Remember, having fun is always #1 priority :D

i gave my two year old my initiate i got as a grab bag. as i was standing there putting my jacket on getting ready to leave , he picks it up and he does a over the head chop straight to my chest. it hurt like hell and my wife said i deserved it because i gave him the saber to play with and i wasnt paying attention. you wouldnt think a two year old could swing asaber so hard and so fast.

Omz Hercules! This reminded me of the old animated movie ;D I could swing a tennis racquet like nobody's business at age 2.... oh wait.... I didn't start playing until I was 4 I think.... anyways, I had an almost-injury earlier: I tripped over my saber and almost did a faceplant. But I caught myself. I fail at having epic fails.....

i hope he can swing a golfclub as hard as he swung(is that even a word?) that saber, he'll be able to outdrive me by the time he's 4. he's more like a mix between a young hercules and bam-bam from the flintstones, the kid is a brute.

Start him with the Dark War Glaive now, he'll be Qui-John Daly  :o

ahh-haaa! i like it, point for you my friend ;D

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/470.jpg)

sometime last year i was dueling and my friend as i was blocking his attack with my staff, as i brought my staff up vertically top my right side, he slammed the invincible heavy grade blade about two inches from the emitter and knocked the metal emitter part hard into my eye, i was holding the saber far out to my side so the fact that it came all the way back and hit me in the eye tells me he may have been trying to get me back for hitting him and bruising his calvesXD but after running in circles away from the pain, i said ok lets go again im good now! so he pulled that same attack again. and for some strange reason, i dont know how it happend but this time he caught my staff in spinn, like jamming a rod into system of turning gears and the metal saber rang out as it hit me in the same place exactly again. it took twice to realize i needed a new approach but accidents do happen! just be sure you lay down the "its not a golf club" rule before your opponent starts screaming fore!
we kept dueling throughout the night without issue but it was funny!

Me and the GF spank each other sometimes.

hahahaa plagueis. so brutal. point for the delivery of that.

 
 ;)

Nice one, Plagueis. You get a point from me too ;)

woooo!

Goldleader - Yeeowch! Eye shots have got to be the worst!
  :o Again - yeeowch!  :o

i think the hardest part about it was telling people at school how i gt the injuryXD

well ya see what had happened was... well.. we were.. we weree... umm..*sigh
lightsaber fighting and i got hit.. Xp

Hah I just remembered a time when I was in middle school (long before I discovered US) where me and a couple friends were dueling with some toy hasbro electronic lightsabers and one gave the other a fat lip... He had the same problem of coming up with a good story lol.

Another school story, Freind of mine wanted to do a lightsaber choreography for FTV, so me and my bro made up a choreography, when we were filming, in the first scene, we were suppose to do a massive run up clash thing. he missed and I was hit really hard right in the middle of the head. We got it on camera too XD almost concussion LOL

I always just own it, but then again I'm always proud of my battle wounds lol. People are always like "Those things can really hurt you!?!!"

To which I respond.... more than you know... lol.

yeah that day(all of my friends are familiar with ultrasabers, its a fairly new thing to them so the ask me lots of questions and tell me about saving up for some) but i was promoting how unbreakable they were and using my eye as proofXp

Ha, when my nephew split my nose open with my Initiate, the next day at work someone asked what happened. I told him I got jumped by three guys in a parking lot. He said, 'really?" I said 'no, my nephew hit me in the face with a light saber, but my story sounded better, didn't it?'  :D

Its not really a saber related injury, but in a way it is. When i was in my early 20s friends and I took various different martial arts classes, but would get together to do unarmed sparring, or weapon sparring with shinai.

The one time the duel was going really well, nice back and fourth for a good ten min or so, not really going full speed but we both got more and more excited as it went on. My buddy tried something goofy and lost his balance and his footing because it had rained the night before. As he slipped he missed the parry and the tip of my shinai hit his thumb.

We ended up taking him to the hospital right away, and when the doc asked him what happened, the look on his face was priceless when we told him we were sparring with bamboo practice weapons.

We had a pretty good laugh about it afterwards, it was just a minor fracture but it made for a fun story for the next few weeks when people asked him why his thumb was all wrapped up.

lol a couple of weeks ago I was sparring my 9 year old brother in law... He's 9, but he's really good when he applies himself. Anyways, I was just going slow and teaching him some things, and he decided to turn it into a real duel. So while we were locked up he pushed as hard as he could and his blade slid off of mine and cracked me in the eye. Gave me a nice little blood blister beneath my eye.

He thought I was going to be angry at him, I wasn't though it was just funny. Plus I consider it a mistake on my part because I should have moved.

Never underestimate kids... Especially ones you've been teaching lol.

Only damage so far has been to my knuckles, and nothing major.
We wear crotch protection in my school, though, and no stabs, so it's quite safe.

Geez, I wish I had some funny injurie stories to share. Or even a not funny one....

Was doing a bit of light dueling today... (being careless) and I got tagged in the sporting goods section.... was not fun, insult to injury I'm usually really good at blocking that area... You get hit there once or twice and that's enough to make you want to block better. Well I was being lethargic today, and I paid for that one pretty good.

That being said, after taking a quick breath, we continued dueling. A real enemy wouldn't let me sit down, so neither do I. Also I find it helps me if I just push past the pain... I wasn't as nice of a sparring partner after that little shot though lol. I think my friend was wanting me to amp it up a bit anyways.

The great Lucien Kane does bleed.

(http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/Lucien_Kane/723f2c16.jpg)

Nice little knuckle duster I took today.

Ask Dreaming about the whack I put on her a while back. Its a good thing I pulled that shot...

Me and my best bro were dueling tonite actually and I had it planned out to where we would do a four move perry combo and then I would come with an upward slash which would be blocked by his downward slash. Well long story short, due to horrible aim and full speed dueling, our sabers completely missed each other and mine slammed square into my buddy's pecker lol. leaving him writhing on the ground in agony.... ahhh good times.

With the opening of "Last night..." I knew this was going to end badly.

It is interesting how many duelers here deal with younglings...I mean most of us have kids or have them about from family connections or work...but to allow them to whack the crap out of each other without putting swim noodles on the sabers is a bit baffling to me.

All, and I do mean ALL of my stories of woe dealing with martial practice, fighter practice, and other weapons practice comes from dealing with younglings...and nearly all of these stories deal with the little ones getting hurt.

An adult oops and then the kid has a broken nose, severely twisted ankle, poked eye, minor/major laceration, fractured wrist, etc.

I have no experience with kids using unpadded martial tools so no point of reference for that aspect.

Again my thoughts go back to minimum ages for dueling...the general consensus was 16yrs old.

But the story at least was not tragic...the moral of the story...buy swim noodles if you are ever going to entertain the thought of <16yr olds using your tools to duel with  :)

(http://img.tootoo.com/mytootoo/upload/35/353285/product/353285_e62249010fd6c2fa6d9842a75187d8c0.jpg)


PS
Too be sure there were many regular injuries when dealing with adult to adult, but these pass from memory as these are expected wounds  :)

Are  you asking me to relive the pain of that again? :)  I still haven't properly gotten you back for that....

We were messing around and dueling in the yard and he was using his long saber, and I should have known better.  I tend to crowd his space when we are dueling (he hates this) but it wasn't smart to do with the saber he was using.  He hit my wrist bone really hard.  I said nothing, I just turned off my saber and slowly walked back into the house and grabbed an Ice pack immediately.  It swelled up and bruised and the bone was tender to the touch for several weeks, even after the bruise healed. 

It was my first real injury from dueling.... :)

I'm 14 i think i can handle dueling with out padded weapons. either way if i showed you a picture of myself you would think i am atleast 16.

Nice! Well... not so nice but nice! lol

I'm sure you'll get him back for that one eventually! Whew... I would not want a woman holding that grudge against me lol

I pulled the shot! Imagine if I didn't!

then I'm not sure who I would feel worse for... her or you! lol.

No but seriously though, must have been pulling some G forces with that blade there lol.

I still shudder to think of how bad it would have been if you didn't pull the shot.....

I don't think I will ever get him back....he's offered it to me many times, but I can't see purposely hurting someone like that, his hit was an accident and he felt horrible after.

I use these: http://www.mechanix.com/taa-m-pact-3-glove (http://www.mechanix.com/taa-m-pact-3-glove) with a black tennis wristband on both wrists and two finger sleeves (each) on index and middle finger of the right hand.
I feel confortable, and it is a reasonable amount of protection, though the fingers could be better protected by a harder shell on the external part.

Ah, and this: http://www.decathlon.it/conchiglia-con-slip-id_8118447.html (http://www.decathlon.it/conchiglia-con-slip-id_8118447.html) which is required from my school (quite correctly, IMO).
For our long typical training sessions, I also wear a baseball cap. Very useful when an overhead swing comes a bit too short...

I just finished cleaning all my blood off the saber from a very painful time out with a friend and sabersXD
my brother's standard issue emitter
being wielded by my friend cut my finger open and when my saber felt wet i looked down and found the staff with blood from tip to tipXP we were both offensive, its been too long since iv gone defensive so she was also offensive and we both just ended up hitting eachother senselssly and both came out with cuts and bruisesXP we were laughing and just screwing around.
it was intresting and we both agreed next time we would be more serious and act as if we were in danger of being stuck with by 5000° blades XP ill put pictures up some time soon:P

And you cleaned that off!?!!! Pshh that would have been my trophy lol

Some people should never cross swords   ;D

so me and my brother were dueling with a pair of cheap hasbro sabers.  during the process he tore of some of the skin on my hand and busted up the sabers.  heres a pic and i dont know if you can see it but some of the LEDs in the green blade are busted

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HcKt4aUwmzQ/T4i8pIb1YjI/AAAAAAAAANM/nz6cleYjdno/s288/12%2520-%25201.jpg)

this is why i am never dueling with my brother once i get ultra sabers

i would have kept it had it not been so stickyXP

blood all over, hard to capture, but it is there!

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/001-3.jpg)

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/006-2.jpg)

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/003-2.jpg)

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/007-3.jpg)

(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/005-3.jpg)

I would've found a way to clear-coat it so the blood was permanent! ;)

I decided to go reverse grip the other day and received my 1st injury, lol. I was attempting a quick horizontal slash and then flipping the saber around as quick as I could to slash back the other way and whacked my head with the pommel of my Liberator.... OW!

We've all done it at some point and time!

Yay, I win. I've had minor nicks and scrapes, bruised knuckle, minor irritating wrist issues, but this took the cake.

I had a choreographed fight that ended with me falling to my knees. My character was a Light Jedi heading towards becoming a Dark Jedi, fighting an agent of the Dark Side. We practiced it for at least 3 months straight, one day a week, multiple multiple times that day until it was solid. Most of the time during practice, I wouldn't take the fall. Towards the end of the 3 months, I'd start wearing volleyball kneepads and taking the fall.

Then we premiered the fight at the convention we were headed to. I performed it wearing kneepads under my costume, lost as usual, took the fall. I wore them the rest of the weekend. We had a children's Padawan Academy, which actually involved more than a few pratfalls. By the end of the weekend I was sore.

All week after the weekend I knew something wasn't right - knees and elbows felt weird. (Meanwhile, my Blazing Red UltraSabers Phantom (v1) staff arrives to replace my SRD UltraSabers Steel Stunt.)

Is it any surprise that at our club's next practice that Friday, I dislocated my right kneecap simply by standing in horse stance and circling my opponent? And then it shattered as it contorted and twisted while my 200 lb. body fell on it.

Now, I'll admit - I'm in my early thirties, plus I've always had some physical issues that could leave me prone to weird events like this. Still - my first experience with that level of injury.

It required surgery, then I had rehab for about three months, and a six inch scar. All the folks at work asked what happened and, well, I explained. A week or two after rehab was done, I headed back to practice. The knee hasn't quite been the same since but I've dealt with it well.

About 2.5 years after all that, I'm still going.

My character is Sith now.

And in January, I bought this T-shrt.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427202_307872912593124_100001112540772_792649_1025524787_n.jpg)

*rimshot*

- Stiletto

Boom! Wow, that is crazy. Wear better kneepads next time lol.

This topic has been dead for awhile but i feel i have a story that will prove worthy of a revival...
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy253/lemon095/251921_447516445288686_452382119_n.jpg)

This was months back, before the times of safety equipment, but I was dueling my 'best friend' he has one saber and I had my staff. so he eventually caught on that my attacks were involved both blades, one to distract him while the other would attack from an angle only staffs have the luxary of ;D
well.. long story short, he ducked to dodge at a horizontal strike at his head, and succeeded! however, I spun and did a reverse thrust intended for his torso but he ducked.. and my blade gave a big blazing red hello! to his eye

it bled and looked quite scary. but it healed and no ER trips had to be made. it was just a freak accident. needless to say, this is why we now where paintball masks! ironically, the next night, he wanted to go out and saber again.

Lets see....first and only dueling match so far with husband

Husband

Two hits to right side of face near temple
a few finger shots

Me
Finger shots
one hit to the face
and a really nasty hit on one figure that left it bruised for a few days

Thankfully we both wear glasses so we already have some basic eye protection. After a few hand shots we both put on gloves.

I forgot... I got 4 stitches on my left eyebrow from someone throwing a lightsaber at me while I was walking away... when I turned around the hilt was right there.

Shattered my glasses and cut my eyebrow pretty bad. Healed up within a week.

OMG. Please put on gear.

Nonymous,

I fence and my husband does kendo. I think both of us can handle a blade well enough to not kill each other. After all these sabers not no more dangerous than the live blades we use.

Our main problem was; new sabers, not used to the weight, and it was really hot that day so my hands wear slipping on my libby, and I normally use a 32" blade not a 34"

Thus the gloves; I think underarmour baseball gloves will give me enough grip not to wing my libby.

Hopefully my shock will be more gripy.

I'd say for just messing around and not really striking hard, I wouldn't wear gear. However, I also wouldn't wear gear in a realistic duel setting. Whether its with bokken (Kenjutsu, not Kendo) or a lightsaber.
Getting hit and feeling the pain, I feel, can help create muscle memory and work sort of like "shock therapy". Avoiding the blade should become 2nd nature in my opinion and I believe simple pain memory can help that (However, not saying to just stand there and get hit a bunch of times, obviously haha). Which would attribute to fighting against a live blade. After all, bokken were created so that all a student of Kenjutsu would suffer is a nasty bruise as opposed to a lost limb.

Of course though, watching StarWars enough as a kid, does embed the ideal that a touch from a lightsaber anywhere is an automatic loss haha.

I'd wear gear if it was say... competition style dueling. Not made to be realistic, and more serious than just joking around in the backyard.

Of course to each his own. And anyone not using gear has no one to blame for injury other than oneself.

I understand the thought and forgive me for being persnickety...but...

You should use your Kendo and fencing masks. Baseball gloves provide little to no protection. Street hockey gloves are often cheaper and are way better.

I understand you guys have experience and feel you have good control, but you still got each other in the head and face. Control is not the issue. We have been doing it for almost a decade and we still whack each other well enough to loose and eye and screw up the throat. There is a reason that you have head gear in those sports.

as a martial art instructor, injury specialist, and practitioner of these arts, I cannot endorse this view for anyone. Sorry.

This is a common myth. Pain and injury actually make your body slow down and anticipate such hits. The only nueorlgoical patterning that is happening (muscle memory) during the injury are compensations to help you ignore it long enough to get to safety, or re-routing muscle function to avoid the damaged area. Either one make you less physical fit, less adaptable, and less effective in combat. Also, the subconscious fear of getting hit will slow your stikes down, make you less bold, and allow you to ignore techniques that you would have gone for if you wear armored.



I still don't understand this aversion to armor. Modern armor is so light you can hardly feel it and can be made to look like anything. Star Wars is replete with armor and cool stuff like that. But everyone insists and fighting naked.

If you have the gear, please use it. Pride in injury is not going to build skill.

Well as far as anything with fear of getting hit. Fear is natural and healthy (in moderation, as with everything) in combat, or anything that matter. As a practitioner of singing and musicianship, I would be worried if I was not slightly afraid or nervous before getting on that stage. I am not the greatest combat specialist, infact no where even close. I did take taekwondo for years when I was younger, but no where near an instructor. I did participate in tons of sparring though. Anyway I do appreciate the wisdom you are offering me given the many more years experience you probably have over me. But I simply feel that some fear is necessary, because being too bold can get you just as easily killed as being too afraid of a strike. Fear is a necessary survival instinct. Often we only fear what we don't understand or what we attribute negative things to. I am not saying its more appropriate to not wear armor. I am merely expressing that it may not just be everyone's slice of bread. And of course, like I said before, if oneself gets injured, it's oneself's fault.

And if you want to get down to the very end of it. let's say in the super-likely scenario that a swordsman attacks my home and its a one vs one battle. While it may be beneficial to wear some actual armor, as in today's toughest cut resistant armor. It would only protect against the lightest of scrapes. With or without that armor, any opening I leave for that swordsman to take, I am a dead man. I would trust my reflexes and techniques more than the armor (or the sword) to protect me. And personally to me (I may be some freak show), but kinda at the end of 300 (not that I take advice from a movie..haha) where Leonidas is bothered by his helmet and his shield so he drops both in order to become 100% in sync with his surroundings in order to focus to his whole potential. That's how I am with armor. I feel restricted, insecure, unfocused. I feel I have to feel the environment. Which is a common practice for parkour runners. While its much better for them to wear some shoes with good protective soles in them, many do not so they can feel the ground beneath them. They rely on good technique to avoid injury.

I want to say again though. I am not endorsing or promoting not wearing armor. But merely presenting a defensive standpoint for those who simply do not want to go all out and wear Kendo or hockey gear while pretending to be jedi/sith. And maybe I have been lucky throughout the years playing with lightsabers and the likes, but I have never had a severe (probably not anything worse that a small bruise either) injury.

I appreciate everything you are saying, don't get me wrong. I think your lessons for TPLA videos are awesome. I'm just stating that I feel I am accepting the fact I can be injured, simply by holding a weapon. As anyone who holds a weapon should be prepared to use it and are automatically agreeing to a risk. And trust me, I believe very firmly everybody should at the very least listen to the advice you give. I am not at all giving advice or advocating anything to anyone. Merely presenting my personal feelings on armor.

I have to agree with Master Nonymous - protective gear is an excellent idea when you swing these things around.  I realize not everyone goes all out, and that's fine... but it's definitely better safe than sorry.  I've seen someone get their tooth knocked out by one of these things, and that was during a very casual sparring session between two skilled swordsmen.  I don't really wanna think about what it could do to something like an eye...

Well, as you can imagine, I could not disagree more.

I am not referring to "fear" as in "I hope I don't get injured". I am talking about unconscious choices the body makes when it knows it is not protected and not in real danger. The practice of sparring without armor actually decreases the realism of the encounter. Without the visceral amperage you would get in a real life and death scenario, the unconscious efforts you will make to avoid serious injury in your opponent or yourself will make the practice little more than children playing with sticks.

Yes, the Samurai did practice with bokken, but they also practiced in armor. They swam in their armor. Obviously, these are anachronistic skills now, but the use of protective gear enhances the realism of the techniques and strategy used in the exercise. Every major weapon tradition has a form of weapon analog to allow more realistic practice in sparring. From bokken to federschwert practice weapons approximate real weight and feel with less risk of injury. Fencing jackets and kendo armor go back centuries as well and there are hundreds of examples of protective gear used for training from all over and with every weapon.

Like wearing a seat belt, helmet, or mouth guard, it just makes sense. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And there is absolutely zero to be gained from practicing unprotected. It can easily be demonstrated through mere biological processes that it would inevitably lead to less benefits in combat. Slower speed, incomplete extension, and unrealistic unguarded areas are all hallmarks of this training.  It isn't really a matter of opinion.

Facts and data are fairly conclusive: It leads to less skill, not more.

Well I tried to be as neutral as possible. In the event of war, of course armor is reasonable. You have 1000s of enemies to worry about sure. however, you're still probably going to die anyway. But something to reflect on as far as Samurai go, in times of peace, such as the Edo period, samurais were not prancing around in their armor. Typically they just wore their Kimono, and the daisho to show that they were of Samurai status. And during that time, many Samurai fought in duels with no protection at all. Simply cause A. Armor takes time to put on and you cant just take it wherever you want, whenever you want. B. That armor is not going to save your life for you. A good swing will take you out, armor or not. Point is, you are not going to convince me to wear armor when I duel with a lightsaber made of polycarbonate that has no edge. You can look down on me if you wish. My personal experience, I do better without bulky armor such as kendo or fencing. I am thin, I have reach, I am fast, and I have good reflexes and I trust them. Armor feels unnatural and restrictive to me. I have gone years holding up just fine without it.  My argument was that there are disadvantages to armor that are appropriate to recognize in its advantages. I just personally would rather rely on my own body first than armor. I do realize there is *some* armor out there that is skin tight and lightweight. But any sort of headgear just distorts my feel for my environment, and maybe to you that seems like a disadvantage.

I could not bring myself to wear a kendo mask and hockey gloves (especially bulky hockey gloves) in a fight with an omni directional blade.
Perhaps paintball gloves with lightweight plating, but I need gloves to be fingerless. And the only possible head protection that may be agreeable is a form of a mesh airsoft mask. Maybe. At least I tried to make a compromise here.

And I realize I am not going to find any friends amongst this sort of debate. But there are plenty of people like myself, who have done just fine without armor. So I will leave it at this and I shall resign from this discussion out of respect.

The issue is not convincing you to wear armor... If you are a consenting adult, you can choose to do whatever you want. The issue is as RM's on the site we must preach safety safety safety It's our job and we aren't insulting your intelligence, or your toughness. As someone who strictly learned without armor or safety gear of any sort, with a lot of different style training weapons. I can vouch for what Nonymous is saying, you can hit harder, and faster if you're wearing gear. As far as not worrying about it because the polycarbonate doesn't have an edge? I've been meaning to show this when I get the chance, and our garage is back up and running, but polycarbonate isn't just plastic... Remember this is the stuff that bullet proof glass is made out of. A thickwalled polycarbonate blade, commonly referred to as the heavy grade, has about the striking force of a bokken. I'll remind you that Miyamoto Musashi, and other trained Samurai, killed other Samurai, who were armed with katanas, with their bokkens.

These "toys" have every bit the chance to turn into lethal weapons, laugh if you want, but I will show a video of their striking potential the second I can.

A baseball bat doesn't have an edge, neither does a tire iron... and yet we don't swing those at each other either unless we're trying to hurt someone.

Once again, we're not going to come to your house and make you put on gear, but understand that we have to preach it, if not for you, for the other 100s of people who are going to read this and say... Yeah I don't need safety gear! and then they get hurt and go that was Ultrasabers' fault. Umm no we warned you posthumously.

This is a contact sport, and requires appropriate gear as such, if you don't use it, you do so at your own risk.

Point for you Lucien, and that's why you're a Master ;)  This stuff is fairly serious, and while we can't MAKE you wear protective gear, it would be remiss of us not to recommend it wholeheartedly.  If heavy grade blades can hold up to bokken, then they can do very nasty things to the human body.

I trust my reflexes too, a great deal in fact (having fenced for a decade at least), but I'm still wary when the sabers come out.

Another thing about that period about those samurai was they were regarded as "dojo rats" who never knew real bushido. So, take your pick. Practice is to gain strength and skill not decrease it. The fact that you can never actually apply a technique at full speed and power in real time would be worrisome to me. It represents a fairly large gap in training.

It is unfortunate that you are unwilling to entertain these idea because they conflict with your admittedly limited experience, but I post on tis topic for the benefit of everyone. I also find it appropriate to be strict with issues of safety and to promote the safest most realistic training methods.

Please do not think I am looking down on you. I am simply stating the objective facts and my interpretation of those facts. I do point out common myths about these things. The reason I do this is because they are common. Almost everyone at one time or another belives these myths. I did. But the are not backed up by facts, or sound reasoning, they are merely anecdotal.

Well, put it this way; I gather you have never been to a live performance where some one has died during it? Most of us haven't. But If that live event is tightrope walking or a motorcycle stunt show, we understand that these are dangerous activities. That's what makes them exciting. We know that practicing free sparring without gear or protective exquipment has the opposite effete on fighting ability. It does not matter if when you do it for real you have nothing.

And my argument is that many of those limitations you site are either misconceptions, or common myths. Modern equipment is not restrictive in the least and provide plenty of protection to go full force full speed. Any distortion headgear offers also provides training stimulus, as in an encounter without it, one is more aware than in training. The training  bar must be set higher so that proper speed and power as well as rhythm and timing can be trained for real free encounters.

I don't understand the aversion, as I stated earlier. Many gloves for lacrosse and hockey are very low profile and easily be  incorporated into a costume. They are used in SCA extensively. But sparring and training are not the time to be worried about how one looks. None of these gloves or pads restricts motion or technique in any significant way.

Again, that is disappointing. Discussion is valued here and differing opinions should be voiced. There are valid arguments to be made, but there are also valid answers to them. Modern solutions and training technology is advanced enough where people can train at what ever level they wish relatively safely. If one wears gears, the possibilities  open way up.

Master Kane is correct to, if this sport is to be taken seriously, these issues must be looked at. He received stitches from getting the hilt throw at him. Now that isn't normal, but it underscores the fact that the blade is not really the most dangerous part of these things.

Yes, experts who trust our reflexes know, that it isn't just about us and our reflexes. Risk is there and as a professional I cannot endorse training without gear.

Well and I would move to say that had the blade hit me with the amount of force that hilt did, the damage would have been the same... I really wish I had stuff set up right now... I may try to get that done later this week.  

True, but a lot of people have lots of little do-dads sticking out of their hilts which often get over looked.

I actually opt for hilts that have "dangerous" pommels and flanged emitters... That's because I carry my lightsaber with me everywhere... and what better to disarm someone than a 9" to 1' long hunk of metal that can blind and strike?

I totally respect what the Masters are saying here, and if it wasn't just me and my husband we more than likely would wear some gear, but since its just us we don't hit each other as hard as we can, we duel each other at less than 1/2 speed and strength just because we don't want to hurt each other.

The baseball gloves I have are for grip not for armor

And just because you have protective gear on doesn't mean you can't get hurt...

In fencing my one of my two fencing partners, ending up getting around my saber's (sword not lightsaber) guard and hitting me really hard on the thumb, I thought it was broken, thankfully it wasn't. But was was in full gear head to toe with padded fencing gloves on. (Liz who is left handed hasn't hurt me yet, nick who is right like I am (for the moment, I can really use either hand, has given me why more injuries.

Also I ended up giving one guy a massive bruise on his side where I hit him with my saber, and even he had his fencing jacket on.

And I'll be honest when its 90+ outside I don't know about you but I am not wearing my 3 layers of protective gear. I rather take a saber to the face than have heat stroke. (that's just me; don't bite my head off for it)

When I was helping to teaching the new fencers in my second quarter, I to waved the safety book around. Hell even when I take the boat out even with family I wave the safety book around.

Yeah fencing equipment doesn't always guarantee absolute protection, but it does help.  The mask is arguably the most important part, and is therefore the most protective.  Past that it's just a matter of tear-resistant fabrics like kevlar to avoid stabbing, you're not protected as much against blunt force trauma.  Of course, a fencing blade doesn't have quite the momentum of a bokken or heavy grade blade swung with two hands, so that's another thing to consider.

Padding on the torso is nice, but the two major things I'd recommend are masks (epee masks will work, or kendo if you have it) and some kind of protective gloves.

Would just like to point out that both of us wear glasses so wearing a mask is a royal pain in the ass on top of getting our glasses bent just from the mask it self.

I would never say that it protect from all injury. But if you wear nothing, it protects against nothing. You still have to use control and be careful. No brain no gain.

We become complacent when practicing with people we know and trust. That is the times when we tend to receive our most serious injuries, when we feel comfortable . Wile we don't intend to hit hard, if we trip, don't judge distance right (you say you wear glasses) a /12 speed strike can deliver a full force blow.

This has happened to VorNach and I recently with our new long sword trainers. We were just using sabering gear and did a little free play. we said (AND I QUOTE) "We have enough control to do it safely". VorNach's elbow disagrees. Not serious, but we got complacent with our steel weapons because of the sabers and it bit us. 

There isn't enough experience in the universe to protect you from getting whacked in this game. It should be assumed every blow is going to hit hard enough to injure. Thats why we pad out.

You don't need three layers. Gloves and a masks and gloves should be enough (& cups for the fellas). Fencing masks may be a pain in the ass, but so is glass in your eye or a concussion. Lets not forget burst eardrums, cracked cheekbones and broken teeth. In lieu of a fencing mask, a bike helmet with some athletic safety goggles that fit over your prescription ones and a mouth guard would do fine.

Yes, it is hot. Drink water, take rests. Be smart about it. I would take being hot over getting hit in the face any day.

In attempt to respect what the Masters have tried advising me. These are masks I was referring to. http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=21&products_id=38653 (http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=21&products_id=38653)

They are comfort fitted with foam to resist impact. They have room for glasses. And while not totally suited for bbs that can shatter through the mesh, for something like this, it might suit better. And they allow the face to breathe. This particular model of mask covers the ears too.

I've never used those masks... I'd like to get one to test it out.... see how well it holds up to what we do, I've seen them before, and I like the look of them a lot. It would just be nice to see them in action in a controlled setting.

Like I said, we're not knocking you or trying to put you in your place or anything, but we have to do the safety jig for the sake of the children young and old.

I've been dueling without armor for years, one of the coolest things I was able to do was when I did some free style fencing with my friends... we put the helmets on... and for the several hours that we fenced I didn't have to hold back. I could swing at any target and not worry about taking someone's head off.

While the Marine inside me totally agrees with your statement that "pain retains" the practical side of my sparring tells me that if you have armor you can engage more targets and do more techniques in practice safely than you can without. My issue is spending hundreds of dollars on safety gear that's made for another sport. I think our sport needs it's own safety gear... which I am working on. lol Hopefully the prototype suit will be done by the end of the year.

I spent 13 years learning Kendo. Eiyame is my wife under my care, her fencing is grand and she wears gear "when fencing" But you cant translate fencing with a heavy saber there meant for slashing and such, but 2 of us in a back yard me showing her a few simple stunt tricks didn't kill me or her we accidentally have hurt each other worse by just being in the kitchen. Lecturing may be part of teaching if they are your student. But accidents happen even with padding i have cracked the Chest protectors of others and had it  done to me and a few concussions. So Ei is in good hands and doesn't need to have a finger wagged at her nor do i. I respect the masters but only if they respect those around them. So respect to you masters. Our little test run is out of the usual generally i use guarded shinai from Mantisswords.  this thread was added in good humor and is being spoiled by a to serious tone. Anyone who purchased there saber is most likely a adult so lets cool the back and fourth and get back to enjoying and joking.

Lol we don't/can't gauge your skill levels via the internet, none of us here mean to insult anyone's skill level or intelligence. Our zeal on safety gear comes from a place of care for your personal safety not hefting our titles around.

This thread is meant to be a lighthearted area to disclose our worst, funniest, most awful injuries. It's not a place to argue the merits of safety gear. You and your wife are consenting adults, with martial arts experience. If you want to spar without protective gear that's fine, we don't encourage it, but we aren't trying to change you. We're merely putting it out there that it would be wise to wear safety gear if you want to avoid such injuries.

The lesson to be learned here, is that no matter how trained you are, accidents happen. Safety gear can mitigate that, and allow for some really cool and unique training that isn't possible without it.

Like I said, we don't mean to insult your intelligence or anything like that, but there's some defensive comments being made, and I just want to clear up what our mission is as RM's of the site. It's to provide safe instruction on sparring with LED lightsabers, if you're a trained martial artist, and you don't need our help then by all means disregard what we're saying.

No offense but all of the stuff above is not light humor. It has been taken to a serious point of flat out lecturing was my only qualm. The entire my skill on your skill pissing matches mean little. I don't care for titles but those who do i was paying a small respect to. Light-hearted humor and lectures are very different. You seem to think it was a direct insult i wasn't being defensive i just don't like seeing my wife lectured, its rude. I'm not saying any one person is better then the other or who is right or wrong. I am simply saying this was for laughs not lecturing it really kills the mood and the thread. I don't mean any of this negatively i am a very humorous individual. Lets keep the thread at what its meant to be, and that's funny. I meant no offense or aggression i was just trying to point out its killing the thread a bit. I provide and have a ton of safety gear but 90 degree weather dictates non use if its non physical. Plus im extremely careful with her, Id rather cut my own leg off then let her come to harm.


I don't brag or claim in Jesus with a Saber.  I just think this discussion has a place or platform but not meant for here.
Bragging and such is for the lesser. Now lets everyone change the tone of the thread. thats all i ask ^_^ have some fun. We have all done something stupid. So ill share i was first opening my saber and turned my Guardian on and my cat jumped at the sound effects and my sword smashed my toes and hit him in the rear on his way out my office door. It was so funny but MAN did that thing feel like a bowling ball dropped on my poor toes! And one other occasion i sat my Guardian pommel down in the grass with Eiyame and i went to lean down to adjust my sandal and i poked my throat ~_~. Embarrassing yes funny afterwards to Ei,  Hilarious.


SO lets have fun ^_^

I consider myself a very polite person. I don't make big issues out of things, and forgive me for being blunt, but you are the one who is blowing this out of proportion. The only thing that was said to your wife was OMG please put some safety gear on. That is because the RM who said it is very adamant about safety gear, and as his chosen field of study suggests, he has quite a bit of extensive knowledge in what can go wrong. No one wants to insult you or your wife, we are very excited to have another dueling couple here!

Someone else came on and started talking about why safety gear isn't needed. We posted the merits of safety gear. I understand that can be a mood killer, but frankly we HAVE to cover it. It isn't for you, it isn't for your wife. It's for the company, and for those who don't have the experience that you have.

No one here is hefting a title around, we were all asked to be RM's. It simply means that Ultra trusts us to give formal instruction to those starting out in the lightsaber dueling community. That's it, we don't claim to be saber masters or high ranking individuals. It's merely a forum title for someone who knows a little about sparring with lightsabers.

I pride this community on being one of the friendliest places around, I have never had to say anything this forward before, nor do I intend to do so again. We are happy to have you and your lovely wife aboard, and I hope you understand our stance on the issue.

So please, don't show me respect, show this community respect by not picking fights that weren't started, and yes enjoy the funny/scary stories that pop up into this thread... 40% of them will probably be from me.  ;D

I am not picking a fight. I was stating one small thing. If the opinions of others aren't welcome please say so and ill leave the forum. I said nothing about safety gear being unimportant. Please refrain from making me out as some outsider trying to pick a fight. I am not and i apologized and said bluntly it was not intended with anger or malice in any way shape or form please understand that. I mean that with all do respect. And i look forward to some funny stories i think ill have another 10% to add in after the next convention! I ran around PAX Prime in a ghillie suit promoting the site handing out cards and got a good bonk on the noggin with my own saber by accident!
What sabers do you happen to have Kane? And got any recommendations on good looking sabers for a tall fella? I have the guardian and its big but i feel i need a 2 hander as well but everyone i see on here is generally smaller with smaller hands so its hard to choose. I was looking into the Raven. Any opinions are welcome.

No problem, and I apologize if I took anything out of context.

I have the Phantasm... It's a great double bladed saber. Each hilt is 1' long so you get a nice 2' hilt which is great if you want to more easily translate staff techniques. I also have a converted Kit Fisto saber, and a few other's that aren't in working order right now lol

I am 5'9'' so I like a hand and a half saber... Master Nonymous likes the beasts of sabers, he actually modified his own and put extra sections in for length on the hilt. He's got some killer long sabers that are not only functional, but look pretty cool too!

I'm also currently working on what I've dubbed the baby saber lol. It's for my son who is 7 months old, he wants to play with my sabers but can't because they're too heavy, so I'm working on one his size.

Thats good to know i was looking at a Double! And that's cute i want to get my youngest cousin one in banes heart she is like wise wanting to play with them but small. I plan to make her robes as well! I was thinking of a Overlord with a Dark war glaive emitter.

Nice! really good choice! Bane's Heart is a really cool color from what I hear.

I won't lie, every time I see him with that beastly Dark Arbiter it makes me want one even more.  It's such a solid looking hilt.

I don't have too many amusing injury stories, although I've had some minor hits here and there.  Generally my gf is the one that scares me the most in sparring - she tends to not pull her blows as much as I'd like... I mean, generally the lightsaber hits don't bother me (I can parry most of her attacks, I've fenced her for years so I know her style) but when I get in close suddenly this cute little girl turns into Bruce Lee or something.  I can't tell you how many elbows or fists I've taken to the ribs, and I can tell you that she's MUCH stronger than she looks lol

Girls don't pull blows, do they? :D SOTJ kicked me in the face once, but that was kind of my fault for stepping into the 'brunette cyclone'.... she isn't necessarily stronger than she looks, but she can get a lot of leverage behind everything :P

I know, they're pretty brutal!  And that sound just like the SOTJ we know and love ;)

Seriously, when I get too close in a sparring match my girlfriend tends to remind me of Mace Windu when he loses his lightsaber in the Clone Wars.  Check out about 3:35 into this clip and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A07WNupEXk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A07WNupEXk#)

Very nice Master Nero.  It appears that Mace Windu knows alot of Kempo.  I saw a great number of moves that are taught in class every week.  Might have to consider adding DVA to my saber list of Blue approved sabers after seeing this clip.  Thank you very much for feeding my addiction further.

Blue

Haha in that case, you're welcome or... I'm sorry?  I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.  Depends on your "point of view", as Obi-Wan would say.

Didn't mean to get off topic, anyone else feel free to post stories!

Christ its like mace just had one of those old coca-cola commercials, where the football player is walking to the locker room. Thats kinda hilarious one of my favorite CW clips.

So I've been reading a little from the side and I'll say that I absolutely understand the position of those promoting gear. I know that some of you are professional types that teach others and your reputation absolutely demands that such precautions be taken, so no guff will be sent from me to any you about that. No gear is acceptance of risk, really, so you better be cool with anything that happens to you or others if you're not suited up, if I may go Barney Stinson on the forum for a moment. I've heard the arguments and found in my sparring that padded gloves and the like indeed slow my hands down and I prefer not to use such things, plus that dirty little Jarhead in me always wants to be macho. In the yard here you wear what you want and accept the consequences if you do something to someone or have something done to you, but that's adults making their own choices in an informal setting. If you have a club or event, I'd advise having gear on hand and mandating that it be used for certain movements. Lastly, I am going to share that I have a ban list for our yard one person long. He was too rough with people and damaged equipment that he made no attempt to reimburse people for. I personally was out a couple blades. You should be selective about who you duel with and check out any new people personally if you're the host. Oh, that guy got hit in his nipple ring one time... there, now I'm on topic.

Kind of funny thread to stumble across while wearing a wrist brace, but that was from a punching bag not a lightsaber!  :) The worst saber injury I've had was a broken finger. During a ten plus people duel I was supposed to get knocked down by a force push. That part was fine, but then a friend engrossed in his own duel stepped on my hand. You know that activation box on the Anakin FX? My finger was between that and concrete so I wound up at the nurse's office for a clean fracture.

My worst saber injury just occurred recently, about two weeks ago, my friend and I have been doing martial arts training together for several years together and been doing bokken training for awhile. About 6 months ago we were dueling, he had a polycarbonite hand and a half sword versus my  wooden katana. I came in and parried his attack and went for a strike, but the differnet materials caused the blades to bounce more than i anticipated and my blade caught him right over the eye, just under his head gear. Thankfully he didnt need stitches but he does have a nasty scar. At this point we decided to use something a little safer than the bokkens and to get eye protection. and this is when we discovered US. We got complacent and though the blades were safer and didnt get the eye protection we planned on. Well of course ultrasabers draws attention and my friends neighbor came over and we started teaching him. We had taught him for a few weeks, and i was a little overconfident in my abilities and though i wouldnt need any eye gear against a beginner because i was good enough. We were all dueling and the beginner an myself were going after my other friend, when the beginner wasnt paying attention, i stepped in close and delivered a nice blow to his midsection and continued walking through him, but at the same time he was spinning around and a while unctrolled swing landed right in my left eye. I immediately started bleeding from a cut directly over the eye, as well as my eye swelling shut, the best part was it being so bad i had to call out of work the next day because my eye was swollen shut, and then explaining to both coworkers and clients that is was due to lightsaber fighting, you can bet that i bought eye gear that very same night

Lol yeah don't underestimate beginners. In many ways they are more dangerous sparring partners than experienced fighters... Due to the fact that they don't usually practice control or restraint.

The novice has no sense of space and any unfamiliar sparring partner can be trouble if you cross up the wrong way. I always try to create a little space and feel someone out if I've never crossed blades with them before...

Safety gear at all times.  If you are sparing, you always need safety gear.  Even as a Black Belt on Black Belt, you need safety gear.  For Saber Combat, because of the size of the blade, you are very lucky you didn't lose your eye.  The same is true for your partner when you were armed with a bokken.

Fencing gear, Bōgu (Kendo-style fencing gear), even hockey pads or paint ball gear.  A mask is a requirement, not just a good idea, but a requirement.  Something that protects the crown, sides of the head, and the face.  Not just the eyes.  Wrist protection, collarbone protection, and groin protection are also a requirement.  The wrists and collarbone are the most often broken bones during training, so you need to focus on those.

Safety, safety, safety.  You wouldn't work with fiberglass without eye and breathing protection, don't practice with weapons (even pretend weapons) without safety gear.

Not strictly lightsaber combat, but me and a friend were trying to translate the Forms into bokken styles. About an hour in, I struck for his head as he went for my legs: his bokken slammed into the side of my knee, and I've been walking with a limp ever since.
I went to the doctors with it two or three months after the event, and he said I don't have sufficient cartilage behind my kneecap. I've permanently got a knee support on now.

Hasn't stopped me, though. :D

The only thing I would add is the word "Ever".

Trying it for kicks a double soreasu minor arc and was too close to my bod and hit my eye.

Point !


Just in case it was not highlighted enough:
Safety gear !

I've actually taken two good saber injuries. The first when I was a young teenager.

I was dueling three of my neighbors. They were jedi, I was a sith. I think I had the hasbro darth maul staff. Anyway we started in a playground, I dispatched the youngest and weakest first which created an opening. I ran like heck through the gap before the other two could close in. It was a great fighting retreat all through the neighborhood. When we got towards my house I jumped up onto a low concrete wall. They jumped up on either side. I fought with great determination, but their bond was strong. They played each others strengths well and I was forced to again run towards my apartment (my plan was to race up the stairwell and gain the higher ground). But as I approached I had to turn to face them. I kept moving backward and tripped over a curb. Throwing my left hand out behind myself to catch my fall, I broke my wrist. But I kept fighting with my right hand. I was in fact victorious that day, despite my wounds.

Fast forward 10+ years to college life

I was dueling my room mate Andrew (he had graduated the year before, but I am still a student -_-) two weeks ago. It was dark out, and we were outside. I had the cheap plastic Dooku saber and he had the obi-wan blade. We clashed and fought and for a great while we were evenly matched. I made a fatal flaw, he cut off my left arm. As I stumbled back he nicked my right leg. I fell to my knees. Not prepared to die I lifted my saber and threw it in a great arc towards him. Just as this happened he came in for a decapitating sweep. As my saber caught him in the chest he lurched off balance.... but his momentum carried the saber through. He missed but it slid across my left cheek an inch under my eye and slammed into my nose. I still have a red streak across my face. At the very least I killed my enemy though ^_^

What I learned from the first fight is that if a sith is prepared to fall (ie reaching out to lessen the blow), than he is prepared to die. A true sith does not die and as such will not fall. In the even that one does get knocked to the ground he should fall with determination, keeping his hands on his weapon, fighting the whole way down (I probably would have been better off).

From my second match I learned that winning at all costs, may not always be a win.

The next duel with Andrew he brought his blade down directly over my hilt and shattered in. Since then I've been practicing a lot with my force fx. I was never a great duelist. But after learning the basics he has not beaten me once :D And now I have 3 US on the way

Learning to fall was one of the most valuable lessons I learned in life.

I hate lightsaber throws personally... I generally spar under the assumption that it is against the rules, and that people care enough about the saber not to chuck it. Plus I earned four stitches on my eyebrow from a saber throw. I can pull a strike so it isn't done with lethal intent, but once you release the weapon it's going to accelerate on its own, and only stops when it hits its target. Just no control.

Anyways funny stories, make sure you're more careful with the Ultrasabers, they pack a harder punch than the fx sabers.

I will treat US products with great respect, and promise to use correct safety equipment.

Even with the FX saber we are careful - we only goofed around like that with the cheapo plastic extending ones.

We had a girl sprain her ankle a few weeks ago. She was backing up jumped back and landed wrong. People wonder why I harp on footwork much

The only time I ever had a saber thrown at me, I made the parry.

[img width= height=]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/102364308/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=1.png/f-yeah-meme-tshirt_design.png[/img]

Yes--my 3 year old just bloodied me while sparring. While her and I are used to parrying and playing around with traditional wasters, we're new to the light saber and it's nuances. Namely: the lack of any handguard. As a result  daddy is sporting a new knuckle bandage along with the understanding that there is no handguard to parry attacks with.

Ow.

How does one respect that which is a blunt instrument with no real life traditions to go with it? The things are designed to be abused, so I don't see how or why one needs to 'respect' it.

Saber throws seem like they would be a lot more ineffective when the blade isn't so massless.

The difference between throwing an in-universe saber and a real saber seems like the difference between throwing a flashlight and throwing a baseball bat.

What he said^^^^^^^^^^^


Swing that thing like you stole it.

So the first day I had my saber I was fooling around and I swung my guardian and geared myself in the eyebrow. The knuckles and wrists and fingers yep.
And today my brother grabbed my saber in one hand, and spun so the back of his head was to my Jose. At the same time I moved my arm to grab his saber and rammed my elbow into it.
My opinion on the safety equipment. I suspect that had I been wearing some elbow pads nothing would have happened so I cannot disagree with the masters on safety equipment.
I also have to admit that I have none.
Excited to see what you come up with in the way of US protective gear, master Kane.
Another funny story I thought of. PVC pipe covered with water noodles and duct tape makes a relatively safe, sturdy, as a mid grade US blad, and unbalanced weapon. My brother made about a dozen of these and we took them to our family reunion. Anyway massive duel ensued one evening and I was dueling a cousin in law when his saber came towards my face, I leaned back and his saber grazed my face, and I went into a dramatic death. I scared him to death and assured him that I'd just gotten in the wrong mindset. please note that I had just got out of a play with sword fights not too long ago so mostly I was still in the choreography mindset.

Perhaps a topic for another thread--but 'sabers might/could/should have mass? Seems to me that collecting and condensing all of those protons would result in added mass.

I've had my fair share of knuckles, pinkies, and other hand whacks. One other injury I clearly remember was sustained when staff dueling a friend. I leaned back too far, and knowing I couldn't right myself I just did a very dramatic slo-mo fall, landing hard on my back. Knocked the wind out of me, but as soon as I could breathe, I was laughing me bum off, and he was too. No serious harm, and we were back to dueling shortly thereafter.

most grown men refuse to cry until they take a heavy grade blade to the side of the head.
i spar with my bro whose 6-2' 200lbs so you can imagine the bruises that can happpen.

I dont normaly loose as he doesnt have much experience with sabers at the moment. but he makes up for his lack of skill with power.
Hes broken my guard a couple of times to cause me to hit myself with my own staff. head shots hurt the most -both for pain and pride.

Bullet tips leave fat bruises on your torso, hips and shoulders. Ive suffered from one broken finger and bloody knuckles.
even my wife has done that to me before just clowning around. lol


His injuries?
broken pair of glasses - told him not to wear them(although it felt good after he broke my guard once)
Broken finger and a lost thumb nail.
Several lines cross his arms and legs.
i think someone said it already - if youre not hurting youre not learning. with each hit you take you learn a new lesson. i welcome them.
most days we go half speed to help with our dexterity. also its gets embarrassing telling people how we got the latest bruises. he caught hell at work for the thumb nail story. lol

This thread is basically reinforcing why you always want to wear protective gear if you're going to do that kind of sparring...

Not necessarily ineffective, just different.  Also keep in mind that in-universe, Jedi/Sith would be able to grab the saber in flight using the Force to direct its movements. 

As for the throw, it pretty much would be just like throwing a flashlight, which works just fine.  You just have to use a different technique to throw it accurately. 

couldnt agree more ;D
ive purchased forearm and hand protection these days and looking to get my hands on a kendo helmet once we decided to go at it again.
like i said that was how we did it before. We more so do choreography these days.

There's a point where injuries just accumulate, and you pay for it, dearly, later in life. There are no lessons then except progressive debilitation and regrets. Arthritis, neurologic trauma, etc.

You only have one body, please treasure it.

These aren't concussions, these are just bruises. You can take hundreds and hundreds of bruises and be fine. There's no need to worry.

Actually, the bruises can effect you much more detrimentally than the concussions. Every hit you take causes a neurological reaction of protection and compensation. Also, the internal aspect of the injury is completely unseen. A mechanical shyness away from a painful event is not skill. Skill is choosing your target and keeping yourself safe. This is how folks become shambling old people in grocery stores. So many bruises and "minor" injuries and they are no longer functional.

The idea the if you are not hurting you are not learning, is one that I have NEVER seen in actual effect. The opposite is most often true. Most of the people the show up on my door with such an attitude get hit lots when they try it with people who have been training or keeps (in armor). Just my experience.

But, reckless behavior is sexy. Getting bruises and showing off your wounds is sexy. Hard to compete with that. But I prefer to armor up and give it my all. Keeps me challenged. I'm too old for "sexy".

Broken fingers and bruised knuckles. Sequelae of these include joint inflammation, which increases likelihood of any of a number of arthritic diseases later in life. Rheumatologic damage is not fine. Especially since the vast majority of us depend on our hands to some degree for a living. Please don't make light of such things.

Too add to these things getting whacked on the head and having a seizure isn't cool either. This has not happened but since reading thru these posts it is something I have thought of. Seizures are not a laughing matter They are dangerous. I have scared my siblings by groaning while stretching, by tensing up a bit. I will point out that I need to invest in protective gear but I would prefer to make an informed decision.

Exactly, it is a reaction of protection and compensation. The body reacts in such a way that it attempts to heal it self so that the body feels less and less pain. It is probably similar to why your hands get calloused when you do work. The body is learning from the pain by altering itself to compensate in such a way that overall benefits the body. Secondly, as you mentioned, the instinct to dislike pain will allow a person to attempt to be more vigilant of that part of the body. If I hit your side with enough force to cause pain, you will attempt to keep me from hitting you there, which in effect, is teaching you to block my attacks so you don't get hurt.


If reckless behavior was so sexy, then many of my actions should have gotten me farther in a relationship, not farther away from one.

Nope. what it does is create imbalances in your body that will arise as debilitating and limiting movement pathologies. It creates destructive hyper vigilance which will make your swordplay suffer. It will reduce your flexibility and your reaction time.

And the avoidance of pain is the worst motivator for swordplay. It makes one shy, predictable, slow, and timid. The thought of pain make sone stop trying to do their best and simply try to avoid being hurt. It's like little kids bashing each other with sticks. You will end up falling for every feint in the book. Putting protection on allows you to go full force without holding back. It also keeps you safe from injury which takes away training time and retards development.

Not sexy to others. Sexy to you. Makes you feel like a rock star. Makes you look like.......

Than why is it that even though everyone has been bruised more times than they can count, no harm has ever seemed to come of it?

It has. we have amazing amounts of arthritis and muscle skeletal disorders in the walking population. As a trainer and post rehab specialist I worked with tons of people who had serious limitations because of simple wear and tear, almost 100% of it preventable. I see the effect of this stuff every day. I know the damage it can do.

Poeple can't do a single body weight squat these days. Push ups? forget about it. The injury rate from the high intensity movement alone is staggering. It's a huge problem in the fitness industry.

LOTS of harm comes from this.  Look at any injury rates where safety gear was introduced and you will see a dramatic decline of injury and a dramatic increase of level of competition etc. Freeing your self up by wearing gear is not only the smart thing to do, it will help you improve, rather than stagnate.

If you want to be mediocre and have a short career, go ahead use pain as a motivator.

If you want to excel, wear gear.

And then there is the fighting aspect. Most if not all of the people who I have sparred with in many weapon arts and such, wear huge proponents of safety gear. Those that weren't often got trounced by rank beginners because of the detrimental effect that type of training has.

I'd like to believe you, but I can't find anything to back what you are saying up. The only harm that I can find in the light bruising that you could associate lightsaber strikes with is if and only if you are hit many times in the same place over a long period of time, which only causes a permanent color change of that area of the skin. So long as you are a normal healthy person, there doesn't seem to be any issues from what I am researching.

The correlations between bruising and arthritis and bruising and skeletal muscle disorders must be not well researched, since I can't find any studies on them.

Contusions seem to be the only major risk, however they only seem to be one of those "okay, let's stop 'till tomorrow or the next day" kind of injuries.

Do you have any studies that I could take a look at?

Over use injuries are well researched and plentiful, look at the particulars you wish. The neurological reaction to impact is similarly well researched, but not in one place. This information has reached textbooks at this point. I find it hard to believe that you an find no support for these well know biological and neurological behaviors. Proprioception, Myotactic and Golgi responses, and recent pain research all contribute.

Here is one showing the connection between pain avoidance and compensatory behavior: http://bmo.sagepub.com/content/22/1/62.short (http://bmo.sagepub.com/content/22/1/62.short)

And another: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796783900104 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796783900104)

And here is one showing the avoidance of pain being a negative factor in chronic pain.: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304395999002420 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304395999002420)

Neuromuscular patterning and success/failure: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222895.1978.10735135#.UyJsbFFdUgw (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222895.1978.10735135#.UyJsbFFdUgw)

You may see a bruise, but you are building a fear reaction in the body which will inevitably be counter production and actually degenerative. Inflimation can cause all kinds of motor and inflammatory compensations that will haunt you later in life.

But as far as the effect on sword play, I can only urge you to take a smarter path. Unprotected sparring does not lead to mastery. The avoidance of pain is a terrible learning tool for technique. Every single experience I have had sword fighting backs this up. There is no contradiction.

@Nomynous I've been following this and I get the point. so now a question where would you recommend getting the equipment that TPLA recommends? And why do you recommend the company or place?
I know that master Kane is working on a prototype armor specifically designed for this sport but it is not supposed to be ready till the end of the year. Look at the bottom of page six of this topic. His is the next one up.

used lacrosse and hockey pads are plentiful at a local used sporting goods store. And basic fencing helmets can be gotten for about 50 bucks off of Amazon. Otherwise, helmets that offer face protection and impact resistance for the skull are what you need. Lacrosse and hockey gloves are awesome, but Kote and HEMA gloves will work as well.

You really need to pay attention to the joints and fragile areas like the shoulder, elbow wrist, etc. Eye, face and groin protection also a must. Most professional sports leagues that do weapon combat, like SCA, all have their protective gear requirements. Being that cheap effective armor is so available now days, it should be pretty easy to put together a set.

Hope that helps. We will be doing a show on protective gear and such in two weeks. We will cover everything in detail then.

K thank you I have to admit the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks on protective gear was sounding ouch but fifty bucks for a used helmet is not bad. Thank you. I'll start looking and see if there are any sporting goods stores in the area.
Edit* Found a good mask already. That was way easier than expected. The part I expect to have trouble with is sporting good stores in the area. I think most school equipment here is ordered in.

For fencing masks I usually recommend the two suppliers I've gotten most of my stuff from over the years - Blue Gauntlet and Absolute Fencing.  Not advertising them per se, just letting you know where you can get the safety gear you need.

Fingers getting whacked/smashed/squashed more then once is not good.
Take a quick look at the tip of this pinkie finger.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c154/scraverx/SaberForum%20stuff/IMG_0123_zpse7c12383.jpg)

Yes, the pinkie is not used much and can be managed without to an extent but trust me having to modify how you do things because even a small amount of weight causes discomfort really sucks.

@Nonymous

Thanks for the sources, I see your point now.

I would like to mention though that unlike you, with many years of knowledge and job experience working with these issues, I am an 18 year old undergraduate astronomy student. I have neither the job experience nor the formal education to have any knowledge of the subject.

P.S. Where would one get some sort of padded chest protection? I can't imagine that a forceful stab to the gut wouldn't cause some real damage.

We use a baseball umpire's chest guard when we train with wooden wasters (practice swords). I picked mine up at a local thrift shop for about five bucks.

wow - i didnt mean to cause such an uproar guys.
those stories i told were when we first got started and were testing things out and swing at each other like amateurs. Fingers get caught in the cross fire as im sure many of you can confirm that.
Things have calmed down since then. The bruises still happen but we learned our lessons about going full swing.

I appreciate the concern, trust me - we arent out to hurt eachother, things just happen.
saftey gear is always recommended. I recommend it for everyone. I was just pointing out everytime I get hit I learn to have a stronger block or a better position for my blade to be. Hand position included.
The sad truth is Pain is always the best teacher.

That pinkie isn't even as a result of something combat related.
"Taking care" when putting things down, while a popular thing to mention during the health and safety portion of job training for certain jobs, doesn't always work in practice.