What do you folks mean by "duel"?

[navajas]

I see a lot of the word "duel" getting thrown around on these forums. I guess I don't really know how the term is being used. Are you mostly referring to sort of 30% speed, "playing", sort of improv choreography? Are you at about 50% trying for a 'touch'? Are you in some basic gear and going 75%? I guess I don't even know if the terms is used to denote anything competitive.

I mean, you can't be using this word how I would use the word "fight", "match" or even really, "spar". Right? You're not f'ing swinging these things at each other with intent, are you? God, this thing in my hand? These are lethal. Either I don't really understand what's going on (most likely) you folks have the most restraint on Earth (and I'd probably never, ever, be able to participate), or you are a collection the toughest MFers I've ever heard of.

[ShadowKatt]

Really depends on who you talk to.

Most people when sparing will vary their force. Friendly sparing will tend to swing between your 50%-75% range. Friendly sparing is mostly to help hone your focus, your technique, and your form and it usually stops at contact. Even light dueling usually uses some padding, mostly gloves, but it's largely harmless.

However, that's not to say that people don't use heavy dueling in their sparing matches. Ultrasabers makes heavy dueling blades for a reason, and if the two parties are willing they can go at each other with intent to harm. The problem with a friendly sparing match is that while you can use it to hone your skills, it can also make you complacient. Heavy dueling where you run the risk of being hurt forces you to really push your skills. Obviously, this is done with more padding, helmets, forearm guards, etc, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt.

When I duel, which I've been doing more and more often, I tend to pull my hits a lot and not go in for the real strikes. I spar for fun mostly and I don't desire to hurt anyone. That being said, the last time I dueled I walked away with a nice little gash across my knuckles(How you gash your hand on a round blade is beyond me) so any sparing is not to be taken lightly.

[Manroon]

Well, though I'd LOVE to claim the title of being one of the toughest MFers on earth.... the term 'Duel' in the context of LED sabers really just means any use of the saber 'against' another person using an LED saber. Matches, Sparring, Fights, etc... all count as dueling. At least to my definition. I would also say in terms of percentages, anything over 20% could qualify. Personally, I only go less than that if I'm playing with a small child, explaining moves to someone (IE teaching them a move before I will let them use it for practice), or am just slow-mo practicing alone. Hope that helps.  

(And shadowkatt, for that gash I'd recommend sanding down around the cap at the end of the blade. Mine stick out some and I've sliced myself that way in a duel, though not worse than a papercut. Might be where you got yours. Also, watch out for slanted emitters. They pointy. lol)

[Novastar]

I would say... people SHOULD... mean this:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Duel

But sure.  You have "sparring"... "choreography"... "combat"... "bouting"... and these can mean a wide range of things to different people.

[John-Michael]

Yeah, I've wondered a bit about this myself.  LED sabers are about the same mass, weight and hardness as a full-sized bokken, and really, that translates to a meter-long club.

Even the samurai decided that bokken were a tad too injurious to spar with too often.

I'm pretty sure I could prove these things can be considered "deadly weapons" in a court of law, if ever someone got injured by one of them and decided to sue the saber wielder.

As such, I would hazard a guess that those who use the word "duel" mean it in a playful sense, where no one is intent on causing injury and acting accordingly with the requisite due care.

Suggestion: Perhaps the common parlance can be altered to something less ominous or seemingly dangerous... How about using the word "saber play" instead of "duel?"

[Master Lucien Kane]

*Disclaimer* I was an idiot as a kid, in no way shape or form do I recommend attempting any of the things I am about to tell you that I've done.

When I was a kid, I did a martial art style called Shorin Ryu. I grew up in a small town and I fortunately found a great dojo to train in. Now, I've always been a sword enthusiast, and when I discovered Star Wars at the age of 6 I was hooked on the idea of a lightsaber, and lightsaber combat. So I started out with sticks, my friends and I would beat the crap out of each other with sticks. Cuts, bruises, and other various injuries sustained from such activities. I eventually moved to PVC pipes glued together to look kind of like a lightsaber, that will withstand about a minute of dueling before it shatters.

I eventually bought two wooden tai chi practice swords. They were amazing, one of my friends and good sparring partners would stay after class (with permission) and fight each other with the swords. Now they were wooden and actually had a sort of edge to them, so I would literally go home with some pretty nice cuts from these things, we were going about 80% using control in the sense that we were trying not to make contact with easily broken bones or head contact. AS I said stupid behavior.
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When I went into the Marine Corps I discovered the MR FX sabers, I've broken almost every one of those sabers while dueling with other Marines, once again though we were dumb Marines so we dueled at about 90 to 100% The saving grace with the FX sabers is that they will usually break before causing too much damage.

Now, that I am older and "wiser" I can duel pretty hard with people, or at least make it look as though I'm dueling hard and still not make hard contact. I pull strikes and make sure that my techniques aren't going to meet flesh or bone with lethal or even harmful intent. That being said I still have friends who are trained martial artists who will duel with me at 90+%

It isn't necessary and valuable training can occur anywhere from 15% and up. If you don't have the control of someone who's been doing martial arts for years, then hard dueling above 70% is pretty risky behavior. If you are a trained martial artist, it's still dangerous, and you need to know your sparring partner like the back of your hand. My friends that I spar at speed with, are friends who know my moves and I know theirs. We are able to make hard contact where hard contact isn't as harmful, and pull strikes when they need to be pulled. It's such a difficult thing to explain online though.

The best bet is to always start out slow, most people don't like pain, and really don't want to spar with someone who is going to hurt them all the time. So the nicer you are the more dueling partners you will have. The more you listen to the resident masters here, the safer your bones and eyes will be... and if you want to duel at 100% Wear full safety gear!

If this is out of line in any way I apologize, I merely mean to explain my experiences, good bad and ugly.

[Master Nero Attoru]

@Lucien - the thought of a bunch of Marines beating the crap out of each other with FX sabers is pretty awesome/hilarious lol


For me anymore there are a couple different ways I classify my "dueling".

1.  Goofing around with my (inexperienced) friends I tend to go very light and play defensively, just sabering for the sake of seeing the glowing blades float around really.

2.  Sparring with Artorius I use light strikes (as does he) to simply make contact.  We go to "first blood" (not literally of course...)

3.  Choreography with Artorius tends to be flashier and naturally less practical.  We still try to ground it in real swordsmanship, but we allow our technique to get a bit looser to allow for showmanship.


You can see how all of these methods utilize soft attacks only to make contact.  To me (as well as Artorius), these LED sabers are wonderful but inherently dangerous things.  As I've said before, the sturdy blades we use can easily injure or kill if used carelessly, and IMO there's no sense in going full force unless serious protective equipment is utilized.  Since I don't have this equipment (yet) I avoid it.

Just my two cents.

[Jenny]

Having been a sword-based martial artist most of my life... and all of my adult life... I avoid the use of the word duel, unless I'm talking about two consenting adults trying to kill each other.  When talking about what most people here are talking about when they use the word, I say "sparring" or "match," or "goofing around."

[Vex]

Duel is a common term among led saber enthusiasts here on our forum. I use it as relevance to a one on one saber match with a friend. One of the definitions of duel is " any contest between to persons or parties " Dictionary.com . It really depends on how you perceive it.