Posting Game 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Darth Logos]

The fact that I have not only loved it since before I developed cognitive memory, I have also studied it for the same length. I know what works and what was crap. I would have been surgical in my removal of certain aspects in order to return the SW galaxy into a single congruent story line, instead of the bull-shell-dozer method employed by the Mouse. I would have also been smart enough to realize that although the company holds the copyrights and the ability to profit from them, the franchise actually belongs to the fans. Without them, there is no product to sell.

[Illyiss]

Okay, so we see you are committed to the franchise, but what experience would you have in media production, on that scale?  

[Darth Logos]

Okay, so we see you are committed to the franchise, but what experience would you have in media production, on that scale?  

I can delegate.

[Illyiss]

True, but it may come down to having to make a call on these matters.  I do wonder, of those making movies currently, with no offense to your assertion, who might have been a worthy successor?

[Taegin Roan]

True, but it may come down to having to make a call on these matters.  I do wonder, of those making movies currently, with no offense to your assertion, who might have been a worthy successor?

I get the feeling that the only person that worked closely enough with Lucas to even be considered a successor is Filoni, who from what he's seen, Logos doesn't care for what he's made.

[Illyiss]

I think for this purpose, we can look beyond just who worked with him, like who in the film industry, alive and working currently, could have been a worthy successor?

[Darth Logos]

True, but it may come down to having to make a call on these matters.  I do wonder, of those making movies currently, with no offense to your assertion, who might have been a worthy successor?

Despite all of my griping about JJ, I'm beginning to reconsider most of my assertions that he makes crap. Although if the ST reboots are any indicator, he does make crap sci-fi, he just shines it up real nice. With some proper guidance, I think he could have made a remarkable next chapter in the saga. I'm also fairly certain that he isn't responsible for the shell script or narative that was written at a first grade reading level. From I have noticed, his casts seem to be top notch, so I can't fault him that.

Personally I would have handed the keys to Luc Besson. I've been disappointed with very little of his offerings. Think about it: SW meets Fifth Element.

I get the feeling that the only person that worked closely enough with Lucas to even be considered a successor is Filoni, who from what he's seen, Logos doesn't care for what he's made.

I think the overall problem with TCW was that it had no overall direction. It found temporary direction when they actually had a story to tell, but for the most part, especially in the beginning, it was just kids' show filler. All the story was contained within a 25min episode. Give it a lot of flash, and the kids won't notice that it's weak. This mentality transferred over into the movies. That's why I thought Tartakovsky's CW micro-series did a better job. Yes, it had little tangent episodes that were action-fluff (my favorite was the one with Windu on the planes), but overall they had a focused direction, especially the second season (mainly: Anakin's promotion and the capture of Palpatine). TCW was out for one thing: ratings. It wasn't out to advance the story, it was out to justify its time slot, and sell merch. But this is just my observation.

[Illyiss]

Despite all of my griping about JJ, I'm beginning to reconsider most of my assertions that he makes crap. Although if the ST reboots are any indicator, he does make crap sci-fi, he just shines it up real nice. With some proper guidance, I think he could have made a remarkable next chapter in the saga. I'm also fairly certain that he isn't responsible for the shell script or narative that was written at a first grade reading level. From I have noticed, his casts seem to be top notch, so I can't fault him that.

Personally I would have handed the keys to Luc Besson. I've been disappointed with very little of his offerings. Think about it: SW meets Fifth Element.

I tend to agree about JJ; he does make good films, he just needs someone that helps him choose projects with better writing, or throw weight to get better writing, and perhaps someone to reign him in a bit when his creative brain wants to add all the things.

I agree 1000% with Luc Besson, though I do think he'd have to have some assistants/writers around him that can keep him on the SW aesthetic when writing, or he might go TOO big.  Which is what I think happened with Valerian. 

[Darth Logos]

I tend to agree about JJ; he does make good films, he just needs someone that helps him choose projects with better writing, or throw weight to get better writing, and perhaps someone to reign him in a bit when his creative brain wants to add all the things.

I agree 1000% with Luc Besson, though I do think he'd have to have some assistants/writers around him that can keep him on the SW aesthetic when writing, or he might go TOO big.  Which is what I think happened with Valerian. 

I think with both directors, the problem is the narrative that is being handed down from the Mouse. I sent LAK a vid the other day about all the military goofs in TLJ. Like where the hell was the Republic fleet when the FO took over? The narrative is weak and rushed for the sake of maximizing merch profits, and therefore the movies are weak. The same thing can be seen when Daisy is confronted with the archetype of the character of Rey. From what I've seen of her responses, she feels that the view of Rey as a "Mary-Sue" reflects on her performance. We all can agree that her performance isn't the issue, it's the character. The character is 2D. In fact, all the characters are pretty 2D. But this is due to script.....and direction.

[Illyiss]

I am very inclined to agree that too much of the story has been influenced by expectation, and the desire to be able to merchandise.  One good example is the snow skimmers in TLJ.  It's an old Rebel base.  "Snowspeeders" are already established as Rebel airspeeders, and still give the overwhelmed stance against the upgraded walkers.  It would have been a continuity, a fan service, AND allowed them to advance the pairing that they wanted to highlight (Rose and Finn, same ship, Finn expresses a plan to kamikaze for the good of the order, Rose talks him out of it.  And it wouldn't have to seem so romantic).  But no, completely new model means new toy to sell (not at Toys 'r Us).  Also the fact that in the intervening 20-25 years since Endor, the First Order has arisen, taken a good chunk of galactic power, and upgraded/replaced ALL the Imperial ships, while the Resistance, with the exception of the T-70 X-wing, is using the same ships, especially the Capital ships.  And why the hell did the role of bomber fall to something larger, slower, and more vulnerable, in an age of fighters that are fast, maneuverable, and with good firepower???  That would be like going back to bombers based on the B-25 today.

[Darth Logos]

I am very inclined to agree that too much of the story has been influenced by expectation, and the desire to be able to merchandise.  One good example is the snow skimmers in TLJ.  It's an old Rebel base.  "Snowspeeders" are already established as Rebel airspeeders, and still give the overwhelmed stance against the upgraded walkers.  It would have been a continuity, a fan service, AND allowed them to advance the pairing that they wanted to highlight (Rose and Finn, same ship, Finn expresses a plan to kamikaze for the good of the order, Rose talks him out of it.  And it wouldn't have to seem so romantic).  But no, completely new model means new toy to sell (not at Toys 'r Us).  Also the fact that in the intervening 20-25 years since Endor, the First Order has arisen, taken a good chunk of galactic power, and upgraded/replaced ALL the Imperial ships, while the Resistance, with the exception of the T-70 X-wing, is using the same ships, especially the Capital ships.  And why the hell did the role of bomber fall to something larger, slower, and more vulnerable, in an age of fighters that are fast, maneuverable, and with good firepower???  That would be like going back to bombers based on the B-25 today.

HOLY CRAP, I just had the same thought. I HATE THOSE THINGS. You have hover tech, but you need a kick-stand for those to work right? WTF? Crystal foxes, WTF? Salt precipitation that looks like snow, WTF? Cheap frelling excuse to rip off ESB, WTF? Only "bad guys" go to the casino, WTF? A remote hack of enemy codes performed with what equates to a set of lock picks, WTF? Rose, WTF?  Where's the Y-Wings? Why use bombers that move as slow as capital ships? Why does the the FO fleet never do anything except show up? I could go on all day, and that's just the latest installment. I could fill a book series with everything the Disney Canon frelled up.

Why was R1 better than TFA and TLJ combined? Simple answer: because they had rules to follow. They had certain boundaries that could not be pushed without undoing what was established in ANH.

[Illyiss]

Agreed.  I wonder if the real reason the Mouse just ditched all of the EU, was to have that absolute freedom to do what they wanted post RotJ.  R1 was an amazing movie, it's one of my favorite SW movies.  Like you said, they had a very clearly defined set of events and world (galaxy) built that they couldn't fudge without ruining what has been established.  By taking out all of the post RotJ material, they are free to frell it without lube.  I mean, I like what they did with the upgraded X-wing, and even the FO ships.  You are right, they have this fleet that is massive, why does it do diddly and squat, in all practical ways.  Jump 2-3 of the ships in front of the Rebel Fleet, pincer them, and wreck their worlds.  Oh, they got to the planet, let's use the capital ships to bombard the position.  And why the frak does the battering ram gun need to be pulled by two ships, and make it look (I imagine intentionally) like Anakin's podracer in EP 1 on steroids?  Mount it in the drop ship that clearly brought it down, move it in place and fire.  Can we make all the people in charge of that stuff play X-wing miniatures to understand how tech moves in the age of SW?

[Taegin Roan]

I am done trying to persuade you that the books were never canon, but I would like to ask you this. If George had made Episodes 7, 8 and 9, from his script that he already had, and it didn't follow the books (because it wouldn't have), would you still be having such a fit?

[Darth Logos]

Agreed.  I wonder if the real reason the Mouse just ditched all of the EU, was to have that absolute freedom to do what they wanted post RotJ.  R1 was an amazing movie, it's one of my favorite SW movies.  Like you said, they had a very clearly defined set of events and world (galaxy) built that they couldn't fudge without ruining what has been established.  By taking out all of the post RotJ material, they are free to frell it without lube.  I mean, I like what they did with the upgraded X-wing, and even the FO ships.  You are right, they have this fleet that is massive, why does it do diddly and squat, in all practical ways.  Jump 2-3 of the ships in front of the Rebel Fleet, pincer them, and wreck their worlds.  Oh, they got to the planet, let's use the capital ships to bombard the position.  And why the frak does the battering ram gun need to be pulled by two ships, and make it look (I imagine intentionally) like Anakin's podracer in EP 1 on steroids?  Mount it in the drop ship that clearly brought it down, move it in place and fire.  Can we make all the people in charge of that stuff play X-wing miniatures to understand how tech moves in the age of SW?

R1 was "pretty good". I wouldn't put it at amazing. Still too reliant on lame throw backs and an idiotic need to intro new crap (that will never be seen again) simply to sell toys.

I felt the purge was a spoiled kid with a new toy that didn't want to share or play by anyone else's rules. I hate to bust your bubble, but the "upgraded" X-Wings are actually the original concept designs.

Here is a concept drawing from the 70s



I think upgrade, I'm looking at....


This was actually a TFA concept. At least the concept actually tried something new.



The towed battering ram laser (which should have just been called BFG) was done more like this


And seriously? WTF happened to a good ol' orbital bombardment? You get 20 ships pounding a single target (mountain or not) and it will get dead eventually. But what do you expect from the people that thought "let's have a special division of troopers set aside for execution by beheading just in case ever want to really rub it into the eyes of a prisoner" was a good idea? 

I am done trying to persuade you that the books were never canon, but I would like to ask you this. If George had made Episodes 7, 8 and 9, from his script that he already had, and it didn't follow the books (because it wouldn't have), would you still be having such a fit?

I am done trying to persuade you that the books were never canon, but I would like to ask you this. If George had made Episodes 7, 8 and 9, from his script that he already had, and it didn't follow the books (because it wouldn't have), would you still be having such a fit?

Yes and yes. Do you really expect us to regard the whims of a man that sold his life's work? For the last time, Lucas sold rights to those authors to create stories that (good and bad) extended the universe established in the movies. Because they tapped into intellectual property that was originally his, he still got paid. If he wanted it all his way, then ALL Star Wars should have been written by George Lucas or he should have been more discerning to whom he sold rights to publish. As he did not, his megalomania does not have a foot to stand on. This is why only a select few trusted individuals know what my plans are in any literary/cinematic endeavor. That way no one can a) beat me to the punch, or b) screw up my vision.

[Illyiss]

To be fair, my concept of the upgrades to teh X-wings is influenced by the X-wing miniatures game, where the T-70 has some fun differences to the T-65. 

The books WERE canon; LucasFilm maintained levels to canon, and while the movies took precedence, approved literary works were right up there just below them.  The single rule for authors, pre Mouseketeering, was that you couldn't counter the movies, and (in theory) other licensed printed material.  Outside of that, if it carried the official logo, and hadn't been countered by a movie, or Lucas public denouncing it, it was canon.

Also, I'm with Logos, had he made the sequels on the time table that we are getting them, I'd expect them to be questionable at best.  Now, if 1986 had seen us with Ep 7, it MIGHT have been different.  Given that there is a lot of evidence that George waited the time he did before Ep 1 to regain favorable royalties from toy sales...

As for R1 and it's status among my favorite SW films, that is to say it rates higher than the sequels, and the prequels, though is pretty close to RotS.  Also, the Empire acted like it SHOULD have in R1.  Ruthless, in charge, willing to be brutal and uncaring.