Do you know these moves?

[Master Nero Attoru]

Actually, these blades don't really flex in a fashion to allow safe thrusting.  Even as someone with a heavy background in point actions, I try to avoid it in most cases for safety reasons.  The shape of the blade doesn't allow for flexing like, say, a longsword would.

[Cang Snow]

Actually, these blades don't really flex in a fashion to allow safe thrusting.  Even as someone with a heavy background in point actions, I try to avoid it in most cases for safety reasons.  The shape of the blade doesn't allow for flexing like, say, a longsword would.

Exactly. In fact I took a pretty hard thrust to the right pectoral last night. Probably the worst one I ever received. Can't even imagine if it were a 1" heavy. Coulda broke a rib.

When I first started in lightsaber, the group I joined had no real rules. I used my epee background and used lots of subtle disengagements and point-attacks. Worked great, except I saw the way my opponents would recoil and scrunch up their bodies on even "moderate" contact. And I realized how dangerous it was. I resolved never to use thrusts again, and eventually that became the rule. Even when we moved to the lighter blade. It still packs a punch. Probably won't break bones, but can still deal deep damage to muscle tissue.

[Master Althalus]

Actually, these blades don't really flex in a fashion to allow safe thrusting.

Probably we should define the term "safe thrusting".
Our steel sideswords flex with about 20 pounds of pressure, but have a point that has an arrow-blunt on. So, thats a diameter of about 1 Centimeter.
I haven't weighted the saber blades, but the mid-grades may flex with about 30 pounds (that would be the amount that's required of a longsword in Austrian HEMA rules, also with arrow-blunt point) but have a point of about 2,5 Centimeters.
So, that's essentially the same pressure as a longsword, distributed over double the surface.

Heavy-grades are an entirely different thing, behaving more like pole-arms in this regard.

The discussion's reminding me a lot of those I had ten years ago in HEMA. 

[Master Nero Attoru]

Probably we should define the term "safe thrusting".
Our steel sideswords flex with about 20 pounds of pressure, but have a point that has an arrow-blunt on. So, thats a diameter of about 1 Centimeter.
I haven't weighted the saber blades, but the mid-grades may flex with about 30 pounds (that would be the amount that's required of a longsword in Austrian HEMA rules, also with arrow-blunt point) but have a point of about 2,5 Centimeters.
So, that's essentially the same pressure as a longsword, distributed over double the surface.

Heavy-grades are an entirely different thing, behaving more like pole-arms in this regard.

The discussion's reminding me a lot of those I had ten years ago in HEMA. 

I should try using an old midgrade blade for some destructive tests.  I've never found them to flex along that axis (since they're completely symmetrical, without an edge), but I'd be willing to try on an inanimate object!

[Cang Snow]

Episode 6! This time it's the Full Moon Beat-attack, sometimes just called the Moon-beat.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IUOk8eI1us&amp;list=PLCMyxWzNT0g1GQIgjC4y-_OymcXMMy6E7&amp;index=6" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IUOk8eI1us&amp;list=PLCMyxWzNT0g1GQIgjC4y-_OymcXMMy6E7&amp;index=6</a>

This is a really powerful move. Even using a Lightspeed blade we are hesitant to demonstrate it at full power on eachother. We don't recommend it for use with a heavygrade. But if you do it anyway, please be very, very careful.

As stated in the notations and in the in-match example, it doesn't have to be a beat-attack. It can also serve as a parry against lower strikes. It is also an excellent deflector against posting (pommeling) opponents.

Funny thing in the video: Castle demonstrates the countermove to the Moon-beat (or any kind of beat, really), which is a disengagement. *sigh* worst assistant ever!

[Master Althalus]

Interesting  ... Looks like a mixture of a long sword blade-beat and a coward's hand-snipe. 
To me, it's too complex a move to efficiently use in free-play. And IMHO it's easy to counter - disengage and attack, retreat after the beat and counter, etc.
Blade-beats like this are mostly used with an immediate closing-in, often a cut to the head.
I'm using the reverse to this move sometimes - beating the blade with a one-handed grip and switching to a two-handed grip on the closing for the strike.

We don't recommend it for use with a heavygrade.

Wouldn't change much. Most of the force is used in the blade-beat anyway.

[Cang Snow]

Interesting  ... Looks like a mixture of a long sword blade-beat and a coward's hand-snipe. 

How DARE you sir! 

It is not my intention to show people what are THE BEST moves. Only to show the variety of options available in Lightspeed-saber fencing, and ostensibly, in authentic lightsabery. If they can work once, they can work again, but certainly not all the time. That said, yes, the move-- like all moves-- definitely has its countermoves, as my assistant demonstrated instinctively.

As for the power: much more of the weight is going to be "in the cut" due to the pommel grip, and you are attacking with the full shoulder. It could hit much harder than you think, especially with a heavygrade. At the very least, you should not target the hand unless you are wearing HEMA gloves or an actual gauntlet. Not even the best lacrosse gloves will protect against such a hit.

[Master Althalus]

and you are attacking with the full shoulder.

The thing is: with a HG, the balance of the saber changes, so won't be able to power the strike like you can with the light blade. Most people find it challenging to hit a small target like the hand with the hand on the pommel anyway (with a HG). They need a strong wrist to keep the blade on target.

Only to show the variety of options available in Lightspeed-saber fencing

That's allright - I'm just playing Advocatus Diaboli here. To me, the hand would not be primary target in this technique. I would close in after the beat and aim the strike at the head (even with one hand).

[Master Althalus]

OK, tried the move with a HG blade - don't think it's really dangerous to the opponent, more for oneself.  Puts quite a lot of strain on the elbow and lower arm. Wouldn't count on hitting anything that way - and beware of missing. 

[Cang Snow]

OK, tried the move with a HG blade - don't think it's really dangerous to the opponent, more for oneself.  Puts quite a lot of strain on the elbow and lower arm. Wouldn't count on hitting anything that way - and beware of missing. 

Okay, so we're agreed. Let's not do it with a heavygrade.  And I think I know what you're talking about when you miss. And hit the ground, yes? Oh boy it's bad isn't it XD

[Master Althalus]

And hit the ground, yes?

Not exactly - it's more about the pain in the elbow trying to keep the blade from hitting the ground. It's a lot of leverage you have to counter here.

With a MG blade, I'd still target the head, not the hand.