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Author Topic: Sith Academy: Korriban  (Read 145496 times)
Darth Logos
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« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2017, 04:44:42 PM »

So what's Taegin doing in here? He has no knowledge. Wink

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Okay, different kind of question. Which Sith had the greatest lightsaber skills?

That is a loaded question. As a Sith Lord, one is already a formidable opponent. Different Sith had varying degrees of saber aptitude.

I'm not certain what form Revan preferred, but he was apparently no slouch with a blade.

Bane, and perhaps Malgus, were skilled in Djem So. Despite their hulking frames, both were exceptionally quick and delivered equal strength in their strikes. From reading the Bane trilogy, I have characterized a defense against Bane's technique as almost futile, as he would bounce you off the floor then knock you across the room. Mad power.
(Also note worthy: despite being comparatively weak in the Force, Bane's saber master at the acadomy was a force to be reckoned with.)

I'm a little shocked that nobody has mentioned Zannah yet. Due to her slight build, Bane knew that she would be ill suited to his strong style. He instead equipped her with a staff and focused her training in fast style, primarily soresu. It was said that Zannah's skills offered her a nigh impenetrable defense that could be maintained for extended periods. This would allow her to wear her opponent down while conserving her own energy, and simply wait for a prime opportunity to strike.

For what little literature there is with the Sith of Bane's lineage, it might be assumed that all in that line were exceptional with a saber.

And let us not forget Tyrannus.  Cry

And we certainly can't forget Exar Kun. Of what little I know of this Jedi gone dark, his saber skills are supposedly legendary. He modified his saber to be double bladed (not a staff)

It also had a dual-phase modification that allowed instant blade length change mid-combat. This feature combined with the option of single or double blades easily confounds.

I don't recall much of what is about Darth Plagueis' ability in the book of the same name. But as has been depicted in that book, as well as Ep3, and even TCW, Sidious was a madman with a saber. I honestly think he would have been a match for Bane and Zannah combined. But that might be pushing it. Wink

From watching them fight in the movies, I'd say Darth Vader before he was chopped up and burned, or else Darth Sidious. I don't know about any of the Sith that aren't officially canon. Logos will come in a second, and tell me why I am wrong, but that is my opinion based on what I have seen.

I can't discount Vader from this line-up as (despite showcasing Kenobi's skills was an after thought) Vader was capable of contending with Kenobi pre and post Mustafar. I always viewed certain events as painting the far extent of Obi Wan's saber skills: Defeating Darth Maul when his master could not, and taking on Grievous time and again, when most Jedi, even masters, could not hold their ground against the cyborg. From what I've been told of events depicted in Lords of the Sith, Sidious intentionally sabotaged Vader by equipping him with sub-par prosthetics in order to limit his powers and saber effectiveness to a level that he (Sidious) could easily control.

Maul was trained specifically as a warrior, and he's also super fit.

Maul was also not fully trained. According to Darth Plagueis, Maul was the equivalent of Ventress...an assassin. Sidious had no plans to continue the Sith line. He wanted power to end with him for all time, so he never trained an apprentice to any level that he would be able to be challenged. So despite being the pinnacle of physical fitness, Maul never stood a chance against Sidious.

Real life weapon specialists have been saying the weapon Maul used would add difficulty. The flare and confusion of two blades attached wears off quickly for experienced swordsman. In a book, Maul was in prison where he couldn't use the Force, so he basically became Riddick. The story felt like it was supposed to be about Riddick, and someone modified it for Maul. So, I know Maul is still a slick son of Dathomir. I just don't know a Forceless Sidious without making assumptions without demonstration. Ray Park could kick Ian McDiarmid's butt. My assumptions didn't write the characters. Maul lost against Sidious in TCW. But, that was sabers and Force.

Different variants offer different strengths and liabilities. I have experienced it first hand. Even the variation between a straight hilt and curved is easily evident. The greatest advantage of a staff is that it take literally half the time to bring a blade around to face your opponent. This advantage is furthered by utilizing Exar Kun's inovations. One notable hindrance in using a staff is a lack of a defensible center because of the way the weapon is held, resulting in a lot of this...



Choose your weapon wisely.

How much did Sidious actually use the Force in his battle against Maul and Savage?

Sidious uses the Force to fight the same way that Yoda does. Neither actually has the physical strength anymore to perform their individual maneuvers. I've always deemed they saber skills as an extension of their control of the Force to move their bodies instead of actually relying on their muscles, resulting in faster reflexes and greater dexterity and agility.

Quote
Just a question that doesn't really belong here, but does anybody else want a live action SW TV series?

Only if it doesn't suck for the sake of ratings and tells a worthy story. Grin

Bane, Kas'im, Malgus, Sidious pretty much in that order.  There were other bright spots here and there in Sith history, but they were consistently the best.

Thanks, I was drawing a blank on his name. Kas'im was Bane's sabermaster. Sadly(-ish) the student quickly usurps the master.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2017, 08:26:53 PM »

I didn't forget about Tyrannus (Dooku), I purposely left him out because of how bad he lost to Anakin in ROTS. This is not to say that he didn't have some mean saber skills. He beat Obi-Wan twice in the movies, and multiple times in TCW. But Anakin still killed him in the end. That is why I think it is Vader from ROTS. That battle between him and Obi-Wan totally showed of both their saber prowess. They were both exceptional fighters, and if not for Obi-Wan gaining the high ground, I don't know if he would have won.
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« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2017, 09:07:22 PM »

I didn't forget about Tyrannus (Dooku), I purposely left him out because of how bad he lost to Anakin in ROTS. This is not to say that he didn't have some mean saber skills. He beat Obi-Wan twice in the movies, and multiple times in TCW. But Anakin still killed him in the end. That is why I think it is Vader from ROTS. That battle between him and Obi-Wan totally showed of both their saber prowess. They were both exceptional fighters, and if not for Obi-Wan gaining the high ground, I don't know if he would have won.
And as I pointed out earlier, beating Kenobi is no small feat. Although I thought the end of ROTS was a bit contrived. Ok, so he has the high ground. Just move on downriver a bit more than get off. Or nail him with a Force blast, then jump. As far as I know, high ground only counts for anything when using ranged weapons. And don't say a saber throw makes it a ranged weapon.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2017, 10:18:12 PM »

And as I pointed out earlier, beating Kenobi is no small feat. Although I thought the end of ROTS was a bit contrived. Ok, so he has the high ground. Just move on downriver a bit more than get off. Or nail him with a Force blast, then jump. As far as I know, high ground only counts for anything when using ranged weapons. And don't say a saber throw makes it a ranged weapon.

It was choreographed, but it still looked amazing. And the ground was actually not that much higher than the droid Vader was floating on was.
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« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2017, 10:20:05 PM »

It was choreographed, but it still looked amazing. And the ground was actually not that much higher than the droid Vader was floating on was.
FYI.....they were all choreographed. Shocked
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« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2017, 10:22:20 PM »

FYI.....they were all choreographed. Shocked

Yes, but that one actually looked good. You can't say that about all the other ones.
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« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2017, 04:54:24 AM »

Okay, so Bane and Sidious seem to be the consistent winners. Out of the two I would choose Bane. I'm still not entirely convinced Sid would beat Maul with no Force, but that's my love of Maul showing through.

@Logos, I did mention Zannah.


So, Ani v Obi, final swing. Obi- Wan gets both legs and one arm in a single swing. How?
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« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2017, 06:03:00 AM »

So, Ani v Obi, final swing. Obi- Wan gets both legs and one arm in a single swing. How?

First off, it is Vader v. Obi, and second, Vader is flipping trough the air, and Obi swings in an arc. because of the trajectory of both, it causes Obi-Wan's expert swing to cut through all three.
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« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2017, 06:10:08 AM »

It also avoids the potential of a Monty Python joke by having Vader lose a limb at a time to Obi-wan.
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« Reply #159 on: January 11, 2017, 07:50:05 AM »

It also avoids the potential of a Monty Python joke by having Vader lose a limb at a time to Obi-wan.

"Your arm's off."

"No it isn't."

"What's that then?"

"Tis but a flesh wound. Have at you!!!"


Purely on combat styles, Sidious would beat Maul due to the massive advantage a skilled Jar'Kai user has over pretty much everyone. There's a reason Kas'im withheld Jar'Kai from all of his students for his own use.  While Bane did defeat him, it was more Bane's skill with the Force, rather than saber skills, that won him the duel (Logos can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Bane dropped at least two walls of a room on him. And then the rest of the room to make sure.)

Jar'Kai, used by someone who knows how to use it correctly, will slaughter someone using either a single saber (only one blade) or a saberstaff (only one blade).

And I completely agree with Logos, Zannah is the absolute best example of how a saberstaff should be used.  Maul is probably the worst I can think of.  The saberstaff is best used as a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.
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« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2017, 04:46:48 PM »

Yes, but that one actually looked good. You can't say that about all the other ones.
Duel of the Fates was pretty good. Not as good, but pretty good.

@Logos, I did mention Zannah.
So you did.

Quote
So, Ani v Obi, final swing. Obi- Wan gets both legs and one arm in a single swing. How?
Bad writing. Wink

First off, it is Vader v. Obi, and second, Vader is flipping trough the air, and Obi swings in an arc. because of the trajectory of both, it causes Obi-Wan's expert swing to cut through all three.
So he manages to sever only Vader's remaining natural limbs and completely miss his previously damaged right arm? ô¿o

Purely on combat styles, Sidious would beat Maul due to the massive advantage a skilled Jar'Kai user has over pretty much everyone. There's a reason Kas'im withheld Jar'Kai from all of his students for his own use.  While Bane did defeat him, it was more Bane's skill with the Force, rather than saber skills, that won him the duel (Logos can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Bane dropped at least two walls of a room on him. And then the rest of the room to make sure.)
Don't remember the particulars of that fight too much beyond its location. TBH, a skilled duelist utilizes what tools he has. NTM both Sith and Jedi utilize the Force to anticipate their opponents' next move. So a duel is never fought without the use of the Force.

At least Bane had some respect for his old blade master. Qordis on the other hand went out like a bitch. Bane crushed him bodily with the Force. Popped him like a zit. Awesome.

Quote
And I completely agree with Logos, Zannah is the absolute best example of how a saberstaff should be used.  Maul is probably the worst I can think of.  The saberstaff is best used as a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.
It is still a lightsaber, despite being a variant, and still has offensive capabilities as Darth Maul displayed. However its true strength lies in defense.
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« Reply #161 on: January 11, 2017, 07:19:45 PM »

Duel of the Fates was pretty good. Not as good, but pretty good.

Yes, definitely one of the better battles. I can't wait to see what the battles look like in Episode VIII

So he manages to sever only Vader's remaining natural limbs and completely miss his previously damaged right arm? ô¿o

Like I said, expert swing.
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« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2017, 08:24:06 PM »

Like I said, expert swing.
Riiiiigggghhhtttt.

Why couldn't he have be knocked over by a volcanic blast and had liquid hot magma sloshed on the limbs-to-be-removed. That would have taken care of the need for burns as well as his new status as a gimp.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #163 on: January 11, 2017, 08:35:08 PM »

Riiiiigggghhhtttt.

Why couldn't he have be knocked over by a volcanic blast and had liquid hot magma sloshed on the limbs-to-be-removed. That would have taken care of the need for burns as well as his new status as a gimp.

It's called convenience.
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"Confronting fear is the Destiny of a Jedi" - Luke Skywalker
"So this is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause." - Padmé Amidala

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« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2017, 08:38:40 PM »

It's called convenience.
It's called contrivance.
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