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Author Topic: Safety gear video  (Read 4660 times)
Darth Nonymous
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« on: July 20, 2012, 04:14:28 PM »

Here is a short video outlining the safety gear we use as a minimum at Terra Prime.

Can your gear do this?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_KRx1LqzY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_KRx1LqzY</a>
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 04:44:53 PM »

i like it! thanks for the great videos nonymous
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 08:28:15 AM »

I agree 100% with the safety shown in the video but I have to say that the Cantina Music was cracking me up.  The psych guys came to check on me because they thought I had finally lost it.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 10:34:41 AM »

This is one of my favorites.
Being there for the filming did not detract from the how much fun it was to watch it.

At points it may appear we're not swinging with much power but the fact is even with the gloves we would occasionally feel a bit of sting with those hits to the hands.
The full speed sparring sequences were no joke. This is the minimum gear but we're discussing what else can add to the kits to reduce the chance of bruising and abrasions
to non-vital areas; the forearms. upper arms and shoulders sometimes take some rather stiff hits. Nothing beyond an initial sting and I've not been bruised yet, however that is a yet.
It's going to happen so we're planning the next stage of protection both for better appearance and better protection.
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 12:48:08 PM »

I agree 100% with the safety shown in the video but I have to say that the Cantina Music was cracking me up.  The psych guys came to check on me because they thought I had finally lost it.
LOL. Good to hear. I tried to make this one fun. I figure it will increase the chances someone will watch it hand remember.

Thanks Blue.
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 03:14:29 PM »

Enjoyed watching that, makes me wish I had friends, or anyone for that matter, to duel with where i'm from!
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 08:56:50 AM »

The video was extremely fun and reminded me a little of a Benny Hill comedy without women Cheesy

Three things I would add:
- use midgrades at all competence levels: they are less dangerous for your body, they give a better color and they perform exactly the same purpose
- no stabs at all competence level: the blade is extremely rigid in that direction, and you can easily hurt your ribs or worse
- use groin protection (I didn't understand if it was in the video or not), low-to-high blows can easily impact there

Again thanks for the excellent video!
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Andrea Ungaro | Ander
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 12:24:57 PM »

The video was extremely fun and reminded me a little of a Benny Hill comedy without women Cheesy

Three things I would add:
- use midgrades at all competence levels: they are less dangerous for your body, they give a better color and they perform exactly the same purpose
- no stabs at all competence level: the blade is extremely rigid in that direction, and you can easily hurt your ribs or worse
- use groin protection (I didn't understand if it was in the video or not), low-to-high blows can easily impact there

Again thanks for the excellent video!
Thanks for watching. To your points:

1. All gear should be able to protect you from heavy grade blades. The difference in getting hit by one over the other is negligible.
Important note: Midgrde blades provide zero safety advantage over heavy grade blades. They are NOT less dangerous. Your gear must be able to take heavy grade.
2. Stabs to protected areas are completely legal. As long as you are protected, no technique is out of bounds. Plus you should always protect against stabs when carrying a long pointy object.
3. Cups and groin protection are great! But this was a minimum protection video. Full armor and competition gear video will be up in the future.
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 01:15:07 PM »

Great video Master Nonymous.  Safety is definitely what everyone should strive for, and as you showed it isn't all that hard!  Simple fencing mask (epee is what I would recommend to save money) and some padded lacrosse gloves will do the trick.

Here's an example of the mask, in case anyone was wondering where to find one:

http://www.absolutefencinggear.com/shopping/product_info.php/products_id/28/cPath/1?osCsid=3fui51cprgutmkcjfm9i1kh321
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 10:34:00 PM »

Thanks for watching. To your points:

1. All gear should be able to protect you from heavy grade blades. The difference in getting hit by one over the other is negligible.
Important note: Midgrde blades provide zero safety advantage over heavy grade blades. They are NOT less dangerous. Your gear must be able to take heavy grade.
2. Stabs to protected areas are completely legal. As long as you are protected, no technique is out of bounds. Plus you should always protect against stabs when carrying a long pointy object.
3. Cups and groin protection are great! But this was a minimum protection video. Full armor and competition gear video will be up in the future.


I beg to disagree, but the engineer in me rebels at your refusal of point 1 Wink
I understand and agree that the impact energy is the same, being the two blows delivered by the same arm after all, however the impact of the thinner blade is a) more elastic, which dissipates more energy through deformation, and b) spread on a larger area, again due to deformation, lessening the pressure on the point of impact. This means that an impact from a heavy blade is inherently more dangerous than from a midgrade.
I understand that if you are well protected you will not get hurt seriously, and I do appreciate the emphasis on this, but remember that the energy you are hit with still has got to go somewhere, and I see no advantage in using a more dangerous blade when there is no need at all; also, if you get hit somewhere you don't have armor on, there is less of a chance of damage.
Just ask yourself, if you had to be shot with a bullet in training, would you rather be hit by a soft rubber bullet or a hard rubber bullet? To me saying that they are the same makes no sense at all.

Stabbing, as I discussed earlier, is illegal here, and I believe there is a very good reason for that, armor or not armor: stabbing concentrates the energy of the blow on a very small area, and is extremely dangerous due to that, as unless your protection is rigid, you will get hurt.

Again, cups are compulsory here... You know, it's funny if you think about it: we Italians protect our family jewels more than our face, and it's the contrary for you guys... Not making fun of you, just a funny thought.

I hope it all didn't come out as a useless polemic and rebuttal of what you are saying, if so I apologize in advance, but I just couldn't agree with the first point... I can't see any reason for using the heavy grades, as you can always replace a blade if it gets damaged, whereas it's harder to heal a broken arm.

Thanks for listening!
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Andrea Ungaro | Ander
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 10:46:49 PM »



Again, cups are compulsory here... You know, it's funny if you think about it: we Italians protect our family jewels more than our face, and it's the contrary for you guys... Not making fun of you, just a funny thought.


for some reason this just made me giggle like krys opening her raven, point
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 11:11:57 PM »

I beg to disagree, but the engineer in me rebels at your refusal of point 1 Wink
I understand and agree that the impact energy is the same, being the two blows delivered by the same arm after all, however the impact of the thinner blade is a) more elastic, which dissipates more energy through deformation, and b) spread on a larger area, again due to deformation, lessening the pressure on the point of impact. This means that an impact from a heavy blade is inherently more dangerous than from a midgrade.
I understand that if you are well protected you will not get hurt seriously, and I do appreciate the emphasis on this, but remember that the energy you are hit with still has got to go somewhere, and I see no advantage in using a more dangerous blade when there is no need at all; also, if you get hit somewhere you don't have armor on, there is less of a chance of damage.
Just ask yourself, if you had to be shot with a bullet in training, would you rather be hit by a soft rubber bullet or a hard rubber bullet? To me saying that they are the same makes no sense at all.
I didn't say they were the same I said the mid grade blades are just as dangerous as the heavy grade blades. I can do the same damage with both. If you can take a full hit to the body with a  mid grade, I may entertain the idea. But the difference in getting hit with the mid grade vs the heavy grade is minimal.

Midgrade blade provide ZERO safety and should not be treated as a safety measure.

Quote
Stabbing, as I discussed earlier, is illegal here, and I believe there is a very good reason for that, armor or not armor: stabbing concentrates the energy of the blow on a very small area, and is extremely dangerous due to that, as unless your protection is rigid, you will get hurt.
You make my point for me.

Illeagal or not, you will get stabbed. the accidental stabs are the ones that you worry about. A stab to an armored area does nothing. But to an unprotected area it is very dangerous. Simply telling people they can't stab is no reason not to protect against it.

Quote
Again, cups are compulsory here... You know, it's funny if you think about it: we Italians protect our family jewels more than our face, and it's the contrary for you guys... Not making fun of you, just a funny thought.
we do wear cups and groin protection. And it's not the face you should worry about. It's the head.

Quote
I hope it all didn't come out as a useless polemic and rebuttal of what you are saying, if so I apologize in advance, but I just couldn't agree with the first point... I can't see any reason for using the heavy grades, as you can always replace a blade if it gets damaged, whereas it's harder to heal a broken arm.
Look at the flex from a full force shot tot he hands in the video. All that flex from the heavy grade blade. All the energy dissipating out, just as you say. May not quite as much as a mid grade, but way more than is necessary to to prevent breaking an arm.  You will not be able to break bones. These is not the injuries we are talking about. To the joints and the fingers are the most at risk. You might be able to fracture a finger, but if you wear good gloves you won't have worry about it. It still stings but no harm done. Both mid grade and heavy grade could cause hard to the skull, but more importantly, there is a hilt attached to that blade that can lacerate, puncture, or crack your noggin.

If you don't want to use heavy grade that's fine, but don't fool yourself to think that the risk of injury is less with mid grade .

WEAR GEAR! Full contact should be full gear. Head to toe.
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Thanks for listening!
Ditto.
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 11:46:13 PM »

Gotta say that I loved that vid. So fun and informative. Safety Head gear is something I can't get a hold on but I've started to wear gloves to also avoid blisters aswell as injury made by getting hit on the hand. Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 03:59:51 AM »

There are 2 distinct reasons for wearing appropriate safety gear.

1) To allow the practitioners to use all the techniques of the art at speed and with power in order to learn how the techniques actually work. Practicing without all of the available techniques and with limited targeting stunts the full range of application available to the practitioner.

2) To prevent injuries to the practitioners. Injuries come from 2 events:
    A) Attacks delivered with speed and power.
    B) Accidents. This category is the main point of this thread. It does not matter what kind of blade you are using or what kind of targeting limitations you impose. When you have people swinging long objects in the vicinity of each other someone is probably going to get tagged at some point in such a fashion that without protective gear there will be some kind of injury.
If you have people swinging long objects at each other with intent someone is going to take a hit that could injure them, if they are not wearing protective gear. Even with protection someone could get hurt but it will be far less serious if the right gear is in use.
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 07:47:41 AM »

I am afraid this is not going anywhere. I believe it's a matter, not just of gear, but also of attitude. Safety gear is important, yes, we all agree with that (though maybe not on the amount of it) and I compliment you on your video, which is very well done and encourages people to play safely.
However, I believe that attitude and enforcing a proper technique (which I believe you do, I am not saying you don't, mind you) is as much as important; without it, more armor just lets the combatants apply more violence, which is not what sports is about, IMHO. Combat, yes, sports, no.
Going "full speed" to me doesn't mean "do whatever I want", it means "employ safe  techniques", and stabbing is not. We are not recruits in training at a boot camp, and a move that is inherently dangerous should not be allowed in practice. Yes, incidents do happen even if you employ safe techniques, but I move that they are not a function of how much armor is worn: take two full-contact sports, rugby and american football; both have heavy contact between athletes, but only in one they have armor and helmet, and rugby doesn't come out as the one having more serious incidents every year: I wonder why.
It's worth thinking about, IMHO, because gear, while important, doesn't seem a panacea to me.
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