Saber Forum

I was just wondering, we have been having a discussion up in Ultrasabers questions about things like spinning and contact juggling. Is this part of the board appropriate for discussion of such non-martial applications of lightsaber use? While folks like Venturous have done a lot of work on spins, it is hard to see if that type of discussion has a specific home on this forum. Also,  it would be nice to talk to some people about contact work. The balance on a lightsaber is vastly different from typical contact juggling staffs. Still though, things like handrolls are fully possible. I was therefore curious if anyone had been able to pull off a fishtail or a shoulder roll with a saber staff. Are there trick masters out there like the combat masters? If so, is there a section where my question can most efficiently reach their attention?

it's the Way of the Saber, to which I interpret to mean "How we use these in a constructive manner". You want to discuss it as a juggling tool? Go for it. As a Stage Combat prop, I'd love to sit and talk about it. As a Martial Arts weapon analog, sure let's get into it.

This section is about using the saber. If it was just about fighting, we'd have called it the saber combat thread or something of that nature.

my two credits

Alright then. Some resources to get us started and combine the conversation.

SPINNING
Let me repost Venturous' youtube channel link. There are good directions in here that make things a whole lot easier to understand than the banditcar stuff they use on the other forum.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR1bX1OucgsmuuBmdcNU5kw (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR1bX1OucgsmuuBmdcNU5kw)

That said, the banditcar stuff has some good pointers even if the obi/ani instructions are a bit vague.
http://www.youtube.com/user/banditcar/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/banditcar/videos)

CONTACT
There are no saber specific contact tutorials that I was able to find. That said, some staff contact tutorials that might be applicable can be found on the web from a guy called Gib

Here is one on fishtails
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhVj9DXy0c8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhVj9DXy0c8#ws)

And one on Halo rolls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-fNPfaqDw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-fNPfaqDw#ws)

 kcamcmahon has a couple good demos in this thread, one of which features several contact hand rolls and a halo roll in combination with spins.
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=16513.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=16513.0)

The video itself is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLD5UIrUJL4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLD5UIrUJL4#ws)

In terms of contact saber rather than staff, it can be done. We were discussing it in this thread, where Slua had started things off by posting a video from a juggler called Spinning Spades who is doing it with fire sabers.
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=16331.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=16331.0)

The demo Video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ofG30cSBs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ofG30cSBs#ws)

And another with LED swords is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXGqswExto#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXGqswExto#ws)

DANCE
While not a lot seems to be going on in terms of dance with LED sabers, there is material to work from. It seems to combine elements of the others and more full body movements and rotations like those found in the TPLA's Ataru moves.

One demo (my personal favorite) may be seen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OuaMsaSiQU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OuaMsaSiQU#ws)

Alternately, there is a belly dance application that, if you ask me, looks very twi'lek. The balancing of the sword on the head may not translate to an LED saber unless you purposefully forget that that blade is theoretically supposed to burn.

One demo of such may be seen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx7Gy3PSHp8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx7Gy3PSHp8#)

and another here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XGIRLwcw4o#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XGIRLwcw4o#ws)

Other types of folk dance also utilize swords and can translate (some better than others)

Here is an Iraqi folk dance with swords
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHntjxCivBA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHntjxCivBA#)

A Scottish version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3tANSDYEs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3tANSDYEs#ws)  

Additionally, I would imagine that an LED saber can be used for any variation of dance involving a cane, including tap and Broadway.

See any Fred Astaire video ever or this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POfWbXStmro# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POfWbXStmro#)

If anyone finds other resources, questions or advice, or cares to make and post any LED saber specific tutorials, please do.

More on spinning.

This first a re-linking of the TPLA tutorial on orbits from form 3. I found the slow motion most helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuRYp3l1UhQ#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuRYp3l1UhQ#ws)

Also this class from New York Jedi. It opens with a dance routine and gets into some basic spins and a handroll/toss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2GIG0F-T0s# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2GIG0F-T0s#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ofG30cSBs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ofG30cSBs#ws)

The flame contact sword play was fun.

The ideal of using the light saber in out realm for trick movements holds the same value to me as the dueling aspect, having fun and expressing your efforts to make something interesting out of the same.

So yay for you!

The idea of holding or laying the blade on your head, well that is just right out...I still like to pretend the sabers are real, gotta give a guy that at least.

But the trick work, beyond looking so very much burning man hippie trance sort of thing, is a rather interesting consideration...what can be done with the particular weight and balance...and keeping with the light saber being "real".

Good topic.


Light Saber dueling
Choreographed light sabering
Light sabering trick artist


:)

In the other thread where we were discussing this, there were two main suggestions about the weight issue. One was using a Yari staff extension. I don't have one of those but I would think this would be an efficient way to make it work. The other was using a heavy pommel. I have a Dark War Glaive pommel and I have noticed that it will easily fit about $7.50 in quarters. The sound is a bit disrupted but still comes through. I have not had a chance to try much with it but I am fairly new to contact.

As to the burning man quality, I think that most of that just has to do with the people. Flame jugglers and contact staff people are a bit burning man in general but look at the video from kcamcmahon or this one to see that it does not have to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twQpx2tjQVw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twQpx2tjQVw#ws)

I haven't seen any videos in the way of contact juggling with sabers, other than the one posted previously in this thread. I'm sure if the balance was set right, it would be possible, though I feel it would best be done with a either a double-bladed lightsaber or something like a saber pike. Dancing with a saber would, in my opinion, be relatively easy to achieve, since dancing with a saber and spinning a saber are closely related. There are some styles of martial arts, such as Wushu, that have certain techniques that look like they could fall into several of these categories. If you watch a demonstration of some of the Chinese styles of sword art, it looks almost like a dance with lots of flourishes involved, yet it is based off of actual techniques that are intended to be very deadly. I personally love techniques that look cool while still being effective enough to use in a duel. 

Speaking of, has anyone besides me tried a reverse obi/ani spin? If you reverse the movement, it works with an upward wield. It is basically an under-arm stab, blade rotation behind the back that winds the saber, and unwind into an upward slash. It's awkward the first several times but one gets used to it. I find it looks interesting if you obi/ani with the left hand, hand switch in front of the body, reverse obi/ani with the right hand, hand switch in front of the body and repeat. I'm currently working on a upwards version of the blade barrier spin, but haven't gotten it down yet.

Can you post a video so we can see what it looks like?

Because we are talking about contact juggling I cant help but think of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWNWVIhFdY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWNWVIhFdY#)

I'll see what I can do. I'm pretty new to web video posting so it might take a bit. I'll see if I can set aside enough time to do it in tutorial form.


So I guess the moral here is that if you want to learn to contact juggle a lightsaber, you should be willing to sacrifice a baby to David Bowie.
In all seriousness though, how long are the blades you are using for those staff rolls? They look full size. I have been trying with initiate blades and the weight does not seem to be there.

interesting.. I could see that being cool. For some reason I have a hard time picturing it staring with the left hand and going backwards with the right. Probably because im right handed. Its like riding goofy footed on a skateboard for me its too awkward. But I do see what you mean. So for me I would obi/ani with the right hand then switch hands and go into a plumb flower with the left hand then back to the right hand for an obi/ani??? that should work. not sure what the blade barrier spin is but it sounds cool. you should make a video and post it.

Forget about the Baby. LoL I couldn't help it. Yes they are full size. Im not sure if that helps any with the balance tho. I guess it might because its got more weight rotating further out? The only thing I don't like about my blade length is when im trying to spin real fast and I catch a tip in the ground. All the momentum gone and your wrist still trying to twist doesn't feel good.

Blade barrier was the name Venturous gave it in his tutorial here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRFJAgnnXqw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRFJAgnnXqw#ws)
I had discovered it also a while back, when I saw a version Banditcar had of it that didn't repeat and tinkered with it, but I think his name for it captures the essence of the move. As to the right left thing, the reason I had been doing the downward obi/ani on the left was that the upward is a lot more weird feeling. It involves throwing a shoulder back instead of pulling it forward. I used my dominant arm for the more difficult move and my less coordinated arm for the more familiar. In all, it is a more complicated 3 beat alternative to the upward strokes of the plum flower.

Ill try and make a video this weekend of the neck roll in both directions and maybe the palm spin/ palm spin 360 with the saber staff. iv also got a front flip thing on a single blade that might be cool to show.

Enjoy! :D

http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=9274.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=9274.0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTfoTlGQVZ4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTfoTlGQVZ4#)

(bleh, need to fix my sig...)

...and out of the darkness, Stiletto makes an appearance lol!

:D

I don't recall where but I saw this one a while back. Nice work. Are the mini blades home-made or ordered from someplace that must not be named?  Also, I notice you have soundboards in those, did you practice with the sabers or with something else first?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrNkGlOZ_ac#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrNkGlOZ_ac#ws)
sorry for the crappy resolution in the film. I filmed it in 1080p with a gopro hero3 and youtube uploaded it at 360p? not sure what that is all about. but here is some neck roll things and a palm spin.

Thanks for that. Looks great. Now the trick is to figure it out without causing too much property damage in the process. Still curious about those blades though. Are those 30" 32" or 36"?

They are 32"  I hoping to do a how-to film tomorrow in the daytime to show some pointers on some of the stuff. I tried to slow it down in this film so you can see where I hold the staff when spinning it around the neck but the way you let it go is very important. Its more like you push it once it makes contact with your neck and there is some body movement as well.

I didn't get to the how to but managed a moment of free time at work so I did a brief demo. Practice space there is tight so please forgive that I hit the shelf part way through. I started with the forwards version and then reversed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGadlSECXF4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGadlSECXF4#)

Ah ok, I see what you mean now. I feel that could be used in a saber dance routine. The only thing I can see that is a disadvantage of this version is the part where you tuck the saber under the arm. The fluidity of the Obi-Ani flourish comes from the fact that the blade is always moving in a circle, both behind and in front of you. With this version however, it is harder to keep the blade moving in a constant circle without slightly halting its momentum in order to get it to the back. If that obstacle can be overcome and the transition to the back can be made as smooth as the rest of the move, then I don't see why it can't be used.

Space was tight when I filmed this but if your swing before the tuck is further in front of the body, it gets more fluid. I will try to sort out space and show it with a hand switch when I get to the how to. It is still a work in progress though.

I like it. Looks cool.

New video on the reverse obi/ani with a tutorial and a couple transitions. I plan to make another that talks about the full reverse plum flower, the reverse grip version, and sequence rewinding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkRkJKLq90# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkRkJKLq90#)

The concept of opposite direction you're speaking of really comes into play with a saberstaff, considering you are no longer dealing with a weight imbalance. It's especially true when switching directions with your body. A good example of this is alternating figure eights, whether it be with a single saber, saberstaff, or dual sabers. If you start out doing a downward figure 8 to your right and then turn your body to the left while continuing the move, you'll now be doing an upward figure 8 to your left. When turning your body, you've made the technique look like the opposite of what you were just doing, even though the saber(s) are still moving in the same direction. In order to truly change the direction of the saber, you'd have to be doing a downward figure 8 to your right, turn your body, and then still be doing a downward figure 8 to your left. What I'm getting at here is that the saber isn't actually changing directions, it is just an illusion of changing directions because the technique looks different. If you pay close attention to what you are doing with the Obi-Ani into the reverse Obi-Ani, you'll notice that the saber is spinning in the same direction the entire time.

What makes it look like a change of direction is the fact that you have switched which side of your body you are doing it on. From your perspective, the saber is always spinning to your left in a downward motion, but when you change to the other side of your body, it makes it look like the saber has gone from spinning in a downward motion to an upward motion. Hopefully that all made since.

True enough. My experience with staff is a bit limited as I only just got one. Right now I end up hitting myself in the face a lot. Practicing with reverse grip single saber has helped. I have managed a stumbling version of the halo spin Kcamcmahon posted though my hair makes it tricky. Thanks for the tip about pushing the saber by the way.

As for the spin, the reason I call it reverse direction is the fact that it is the typical motion reversed. More accurately, it is an obi/ani modified for the "wrong" side of the body. In the full reverse flower, I will be using it to turn into a downward spin on the opposite side of my body. As a point of interest, have you experimented at all with a modified cloud spin as a way to get the saber from one side of the body to the other while keeping it in a downward spin direction (technically changing the direction of the saber but giving the illusion that you have not)?

Yeah I see what you mean with the plum flower. I'm don't know what a cloud spin is though so I can't answer that question. Is there a video of it somewhere?

Basically a cloud spin is a high horizontal spin from one side of the body to the other. A Wushu Broadsword version can be seen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXZFz_9b3Go# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXZFz_9b3Go#)
I have seen it done with staffs as well. I am basically wondering since you can flip a verticle spin into a horizontal by bringing it above the head, if you can then flip it once more when you bring it down, changing the direction of the spin.

On a related note, practice footage fro the full reverse plum flower. I found it easier to start downward and then pivot back into the revers obi/ani. Full tutorial if I get it down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_z1SVQNLUo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_z1SVQNLUo#)

Well for the cloud spinning, I do a version of that with dual sabers. I've never done it with a single or a staff, though I do believe you can change the direction of it when bringing it back down. The way I would get into it from a vertical flourish would be to start with a downward figure eight, which can be transitioned to the cloud spin by bringing it above your head like you mentioned. Once the cloud spin is complete and the saber is out to your side, you'd simply bring the saber down and then up again into an upward figure eight. It's a bit hard to explain, but it can be done.

I thought I had a video on my YouTube channel showing how I do the Cloud spin, but it seems I never uploaded that video. I'm uploading it now, so I will post it here when it finally finishes. As for the reverse Plum Flower, I now see what you mean by it. Sometimes I have a hard time visualizing what something is supposed to look like, so actually seeing it makes everything click. If you practice it enough to make it as fast as the other moves, I think it would be an awesome move to use in a choreographed fight sequence.

Here is that video I was talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTrL93CRqfA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTrL93CRqfA#ws)

If it was a transition, we would need to find a way to avoid ending up with the arm tuck, as it stops the action. Maybe a hand-switch?

I'm not sure what you're wanting to do with the cloud spin. What techniques are you wanting to get into or out of from the cloud spin? And I'm assuming we are talking about a single saber and not a staff or dual sabers here.

Here is a practice video. Towards the end I am getting close to what I am trying to get down (about 1:13 and on). Basically a downward to downward switch from one side of the body to the other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQgSHu4kkIw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQgSHu4kkIw#)

Also another thing I am working on. A contact palm spin for single saber. Still also in a rough stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmUAMbGKeA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmUAMbGKeA#)

I see what you mean with the first thing now. The way I would do it would be to do a Sai strike (I believe that's the one), where the saber goes behind your head and then strikes in a diagonal fashion to the front or side. So if I was holding the saber in my right hand and doing a downward figure 8 to my right side, I would bring the saber in front of my body, around my head while turning the body to the left, and strike diagonally to my left, which would lead me into the downward figure 8 on my left side. The blade should be pointing downward the whole time. To get back to the other side, I'd do the Sai strike in the same direction. As the saber goes toward my back, I'd bring the saber around the head while turning the body back to the right, striking diagonally downward to the left, again leading me back into a downward figure 8 on my right side. I can make a video of what I mean if that all sounds too complicated.

As for the palm spin, I'd say you have that one down already. Just needs to be practiced to the point where it can be made a bit faster.

I think I know what you mean but will have to try it out a bit. Towards the end of that video, what I was finding that a high and modified obi/ani where the behind the back section was done to the side. It creates a sort of corkscrew like spin that might allow me to change direction on one side fluidly. I will have to play with it. With the contact spin, the ideal would be to cut out the grab in the middle so that it rolls a full 360 on the palm. You can see the grab in the video because it sets off the flash on clash sensor.

I think I figured out the side to side switch. Upward to upward is very awkward and requires a low upward strike to bring it across the body. I think what you were suggesting and what I was talking about might be the same thing for the downward to downward. More on that later though. I do have a question about the dual wield upward figure eights though. I am not a fan of duel wield but am giving it another day in court by stepping through these videos. You mention in the vids that the upward figure eights are awkward. When I do them, it feels like the swing from the crossover and back to the original side is almost thrusting forward to get the blades around each other and back. The best way I can describe it is it is almost like a beheading scissors cut one would see in a movie. As I try to pull it in towards the front of my body and make it less of an thrust and more of a swing, the chance of collision between the blades goes way up. Is this just me?

I assume you're referring to the simultaneously upward figure eights with both sabers, in which case yes, there is a bit of a thrusting motion in there, though I would describe it more as a pumping action. When doing either the upward or downward version of the simultaneously figure eight, there is a pumping action (at least it feels that way to me) of the sabers and the body during the move, which is brought about by the movement of the shoulders. I've never bothered to eliminate it myself, but if you are hitting your hilts or blades together, my suggestion would be to slow everything way down and build more of the coordination first. Hitting hilts or blades together is a sign you're trying to do it too fast before you're ready to. Hope that helps.

When I let the blades out front, it is no problem. It was on trying to bring them in that they were hitting. I thought I was seeing the push forward on your video but wasn't sure. I think I'll leave them out front and get better at the root motion before trying to alter it. Thanks for the clarification.

Finally got a chance to come back to the reverse plum flower in a bit more detail. The tutorial is a bit rushed. Blame my battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O89Re4CA8so# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O89Re4CA8so#)

Two questions, I have been working on the dual wield alternating Obi/ani spins. This is one of those moves I knew would be hard for me. Truth be told, it is where I gave up last time I picked up two sabers. After a couple days of flinging my arms around like a chimp, I finally got them in sync for the first time today. I find that I have to focus on my off hand and trust my dominant one to do the right thing by rote. I suspect that this will get better with practice. Timing is my big issue because for the life of me, I can't seem to slow this move down. To begin to get it, I need to feel it and I can't do that without saber momentum. If I could slow it down, I could learn it consciously but the only freeze frame image where I can compare the saber position from side to side is where you discuss it on the vid as one saber pulls out front from behind. Any other suggestions on cleaning it up and improving timing?

Second question, I am also working on a double hand roll with staff. It is a contact move where a hand roll on one hand transfers to a hand roll on the other. I can do it but it is a bit inelegant as yet. Anyone know of any videos on more complex staff hand rolls around?

One thing I would suggest with the double Obi-Ani flourish would be to ditch the saber in your dominant hand and practice it for a little while in your off hand. Get it to the point where you can do it as well, if not better than your dominant hand. All of these moves deal with muscle memory, so the more memory your muscles can draw from, the easier the moves become. Basically practice makes perfect. Once you have your off hand up to speed with your dominant hand, then I would work on the move incrementally. Don't try to just jump into the move and hope that it works. Build it up from starting the move, doing an Obi-Ani on one side, then both sides, etc. I would also suggest slightly exaggerating the turning of the body in the beginning, just to help with blade placement. Once you have the move down, you'll want very little body movement though, but turning the body in an exaggerated fashion in the beginning can help get the rhythm for the move. One final thing I will suggest is when you get the move up to a certain speed, listen for that whipping of the air I talk about in my tutorial, which will help you to set and stick to a certain pace.

As for the hand rolls, I've never really taken the time to learn them. As such, I haven't really seen many videos dealing with them. One channel I encountered that covered them was Lordtains on YouTube. He covers some more advanced stuff that I don't get into in my videos, including hand rolls.

I managed to get the double alternating obi/ani down. It always amazes me how simple these things can be once you get it to happen once. Even with both arms able to do the spin at the same pace, I could not get it to sync. I had tired syncing it up as you show in the video and also tried isolating it into 3 beats. Neither did it for me. I decided to take your advice in a manner of speaking and focus on a single arm.  First I switched from initiates to full size blades to slow the spins down and generate better momentum. I then ended up holding a saber in each hand and doing the spin with one arm while the other trialed at my side like a noodle. I then switched which arm was spinning and which just flopping along. Finally, one of them just kept spinning when I switched to the other and I had it. Now I can just pick up two sabers of any length and make it happen. After getting this one down, the flowers were comparatively easy when I followed your instructions. Thanks again for the help and for the easy to follow videos. So often, people who know how to do these things forget how challenging they can be to learn.

Yeah, a lot of those moves look and feel pretty awkward when trying to learn them, but at some point, everything just clicks and it feels completely natural. It's like your brain finds the techniques and goes "Aha! That's what it is supposed to feel like." I had a hell of a time when first learning the alternating flowers with dual sabers, but one day I did them and it felt like the most natural thing in the world, as if I had been practicing them for years. Patience and practice pay off in the end.

BTW, I wasn't the guy juggling sabers way back, that was a video of forum moderator Big Boss he submitted for an Ultrasabers competition.

Repost:

I was going to do a write-up of the New York Jedi / SaberWars / Saber Guild (eastern US, anyways) choreo "style" that's been passed around on the East Coast from club to club (at least what's common to each club), from New York Jedi to the various groups of Philly to New Jersey to Harrisburg, PA to Connecticut and back again. Uilos may remember my PM to him about it. Wink

But my other major hobby is drawing the bulk of my attention for the past many months. Once that slows down, or if I need a change of pace, I'll attempt it. I'm in Central PA in those clubs there and not technically an instructor so my experience/expertise is a remove or two away, but with over five year's experience I think I can do it justice.

For now, for education purposes on that front:
1. On the old SaberWars.com forums (which are no longer updated, so don't register there, but register at saberwars.com/wp ) I have a thread that mashes up various East coast clubs educational/instructional videos. Last updated May 2010. I also threw in the Banditcar spin tutorials and the ShadeValryn staff tutorials, and a couple of ancient LA Jedi videos. Presented somewhat in order of precedence.
http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5257 (http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5257)

2. There's a couple of write-ups as to General Sun (VT Jedi, formerly NY Jedi)'s Shii-Cho and Ebon Wing (NY Jedi)'s Soresu (ehh) and Cyran Oghma ("Island Walk - Warrior Poet Duelist Society", formerly NY Jedi)'s Alphabet system, I'll try to find them.
[EDIT]
Alphabet transcription: http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=158 (http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=158)
Alphabet discussion (older, much duplication): http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53 (http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53)
Shii Cho transcription: http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87 (http://capcityjedi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87)
Shii Cho discussion (great reading): http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5297 (http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5297)
Soresu transcription / discussion: http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5966 (http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5966)

Again, this is all in many cases VERY DIFFERENT from TPLA material as it isn't meant for sparring/fighting, more choreography and practicing "solo forms".

Saber Guild Keystone Temple training for beginners is very similar. I know Capital City Jedi Knights and Saber Guild Keystone Temple started teaching beginners mainly SaberWars beginner's stuff like I've posted, with a little NCSCS beginner's stuff. Empire Saber Guild for beginners is also pretty similar. I don't have any direct experience with Saber Guild Temple Prime but I suspect it's also pretty similar stuff, maybe a little more NCSCS?

However, these days we're seeing quite a bit more diversity than we were in 2010-2011. Capital City Jedi Knights and Saber Guild Keystone Temple came under new educational staff around late 2010 and that is starting to show through more and more. Empire Saber Guild, a newer temple, has been getting tons of fantastic guest teachers, and I expect they'll have an increasingly varied style. That said, they barely have any beginners. Smiley

What you'll rarely see is intermediate-advanced educational materials from these organizations. Hopefully there will be a day where more and more from this "school" is online, free for the taking.

For the record, this forum has some interesting discussion threads farther back than mid-late 2012 (when TPLA started taking over that section, LOL) But again, the forum is dead and you shouldn't register for it but for the new ones at saberwars.com.
http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9 (http://www.saberwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9)

Hope this helps.

The final part of the doing things backwards set focusing on the reverse version of the obi/ani spin. This one deals with changing directional footing, switching between a regular and inverse obi/ani, and reversing a sequence of moves including an obi/ani spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTpj4fVb1g# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTpj4fVb1g#)

Cool stuff. This one ties everything together nicely.

An introduction to a new tutorial series on flip and contact flourishes and rolls. Introduction covers finding the point of balance on a saber, tosses, and minimal grip. An acrylic sphere (with which I am not very skilled) makes a brief appearance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLcmqg32zIk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLcmqg32zIk#)

A brief look at basic figure 8 flips and rolls with a hand switch. Cut a bit short at the end as a theater crowd was about to come run me over. This video very briefly shows a flip inversion. More on that in the next video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ruLu152kI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ruLu152kI#)

Next two videos. Part 2 of the tutorial deals with off-side flips and rolls, chains between off side and on side rolls and flips, and flip inversions. Part 2.5 contains a demo of the moves from parts 1 and 2 sped up, slowed down, and chained together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRNEG_WDhE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRNEG_WDhE#)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwKdR0wmzhA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwKdR0wmzhA#)

The last video in the series dealing with flips before we move on to rolls and palm spins. This video deals with half rotations, full rotations, 1.5 rotations, contact and areal versions of each, and how they integrate into a figure 8 spin pattern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQvreBHuNjE#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQvreBHuNjE#ws)

Based on my backwards obi/ani and backwards plum flower, this is me working on a dual wield version of the same. What you have here is an alternating proper obi/ani followed by an alternating pattern with an obi/ani with my left hand and an inverted obi/ani with my right. Finally, some work on an alternating inverted obi/ani with both hands. This is still rather rough but DARTH CH3MI5T was trying it out and I thought this might help. When it starts to feel somewhat right, the last version starts to feel like swimming the crawl. I will clean this up a lot more before I try to do a tutorial. Also worth mentioning is that I was on roller-skates while I did this.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYE1zPJJm0#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYE1zPJJm0#ws)

And part 2 where I have it down better and do the simultaneous version. The simultaneous version feels like the beating of wings. At the end of this move, I show it if slow motion so you can see what the synchronization is supposed to look like when sped up. I am obviously not there yet but should be in the next few days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opokktXYZQQ#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opokktXYZQQ#ws)

I know that awkward feeling well when learning new complicated moves like these. At about 1:03, that was me when first learning how to alternate flowers. It looks like you're getting the hang of it though. Your Blade Barrier (what I call alternating Obi-Ani flourishes) looks really good and smooth. I look forward to seeing the polished version of the reverse move.

yeah heres my simple flips and hand passed inspired by Darth Cephalus. I need to do more of theses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du43ChHPd7U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du43ChHPd7U#)

and heres the video where i try my the simulatious dual reverse obi spin. Sorry i forgot your name cephalaus. It was a late night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbVrovoAbxc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbVrovoAbxc#)


I was focusing on mainly dual wielding moves untill cephalus broadened my technical horizons with the reverse spins and variations for both single and dual wielding. My brains going a bit overboard.  I'm hoping to develope these skill a bit more along with the flip moves.

but honestly whats stumping me at the moment are the half rotation hand passes. because of the butterfly hand pass. i can easily pass from hand to hand but it'll be the same holding position for both hand. So i'll pass from one hand in normal grip and pick it up with a normal grip. for me to pick it up inverted grip, or to pick it up regular grip from an inverted grip with my other hand.  i really have to think to do those half turns. and when i've done it. I'm like "how the hell did i do that".  The butterfly pass (if thats what its called) is too embedded into my memory to ingnore it. Any tips?

 You guys really do highlight the areas of my saber work that needs improvement. I find it better to practice with someone else. As i do with a friend of mine who also does poi. Theres two of us working on new moves and figuring things out twice as fast. Not only that if gives you that push to try and master a move quicker to show up your friend if you like doing that sort of thing. My pal has made up some crazy single saber moves which are all purely behind his back, only to show off and make me angry and jealous.  Its works but it is amazing stuff.

Yeah i just did a double flip rotation. Hurt my hand on the pommel alot until i figured it out. And i may have smashed my foot in with the hilt earlier aswell.
but here it is. i managed to do a one and a half rotation with my gf filming me. but as soon as she put the camera down, i figured out the double enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gq3w8xDM4Y# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gq3w8xDM4Y#)

Looking good. For the half turn, I can tell you that I have the same problem. You have to consciously slow down or else your hand gets in the way as this move has a definite speed limit. If you make your moves broader and your orbits wider when you go into them, they are easier. As to the flip and a half, Getting into reverse grip is easier than getting out of it. Your brain wants to work in full rotations. When I got it into reverse grip, I end up usually doing the half flip to get it out. To practice that, try chaining full spins and half spins on the same side of your body without the crossover for a while. A single flip is more natural and when you try to go for the flip and a half from reverse, your point of balance is not on your thumb like it was before so it takes more force and feels even stranger. Leaving the hand off for more than the one rotation, you will want to leave it off for a full second. This has more to do with the direction of the blade. The best thing for me was learning to grab it palm up while the blade was pointed behind me. I wanted to reach out and grab it when the blade was pointing forward like with most other moves. For that one, you have to put your hand palm up where it will be and let it come to you. When the blade is pointing backwards, you move in.

As a word of warning, the flip from invert to forward is more difficult. As you learn the move, you will pick up the flip from forward to invert first with your dominant hand. If you try to flip is back, you will be expecting more from your off hand than it is ready to give. Learn the flip from forward to reverse with your off hand before you try the two together. Finally, the move is risky if you are having trouble with the areal, switch to the contact. I will post a better video of the contact version as soon as I am able.

And here it is. After viewing part 3, I determined that the 1.5 rotation contact and flip needed explained. I also cover the upward Imelda version briefly. This video also discusses greater rotations and stalling on one side of a figure 8 through use of single flips.
http://youtu.be/pxQNKcMePRo (http://youtu.be/pxQNKcMePRo)

Not sure why that last video did not imbed right but the link works. CH3M15T would it be possible to get you to post your poi transition and reverse grip flowers videos here? Those techniques are not on this thread yet and you are the only person I know of who has made a video of them. I found the transition one very helpful when I was working through Venturous's dual wield series. I still can't do the reverse grip flowers without hitting myself in the face but I will work on it.

sure thing Cephalus here they are

poi transitions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8mhOQyCVhs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8mhOQyCVhs#)

and reverse grip flowers.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OjQPgGwQY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OjQPgGwQY#)

i was thinking of doing a better version or a tutorial for the reverse grip flowers at some point. but i need to send my saber off to be repaired again.
managed to disconnect the battery pack last night getting the thing out of the hilt, to just swap the batteries over. So my sith side is focusing on all my rage and anger right now. 

Thanks CH3M15T. By the way, do you prefer dark or light points? Your current points indicate light but the Darth in your name might say different.

Here is a re-post of part 4, so that it imbeds correctly, and parts 5 and 6.

Re-post of 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxQNKcMePRo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxQNKcMePRo#ws)

Part 5. This video covers the basic theory of contact rolls as we usually see them with staff, and how that looks when applied to a saber. It still works with greatsabers and staffs, but only so well with a single and only slowly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3O9a9eiOw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3O9a9eiOw#ws)

Part 6. This video introduces the idea of half rotation contact rolls adapted for the smaller contact zone of a single-bladed saber. Covers downward wield and upward wield of forward and reverse grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATm_oc8_GpQ#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATm_oc8_GpQ#ws)

So the next video is coming soon. I would preface it by saying that I am learning these things as I go along. I start with the concept, try out the move, work on it until I am pretty sure I can do it and explain it, and make the vid. The technique might be a bit clunky yet in certain grips. As far as I see it, I should have three more tutorials on contact rolls, and one to two on palm spins. That is the extent of what is currently in my head. After that, please feel free to play with them, build on them, or post your own versions of them with my full blessing. I will be consolidating and polishing my technique and working on my alternating two handed inverse obi/ani.

Thought of a new variation for the series. So with one more roll and two spins left, here are the next three videos in the series.

Part 7. A variation on the roll from the last video. Same roll, with an extra half rotation achieved by starting the roll with the pal towards the emitter rather than the pommel.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cj6cVJcKCY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cj6cVJcKCY#ws)

Part 8. A contact roll version of the 1.5 rotation flip from videos 3 and 4. This roll goes over the back of the hand. Roll and reversal must be performed on the same side of the body.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAYtFvRreU4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAYtFvRreU4#ws)

Part 9. This video deals with a double roll over the back of each hand into a hand switch. This move can be done in front or reverse grip in upward or downward wield.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbdtXZfblHU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbdtXZfblHU#ws)

part 9.5. This video is a demo of some of the contact roll chains that are possible using the moves from parts 5 through 9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqLgp1mxOo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqLgp1mxOo#)

Not a tutorial but a progress update. I have not had a chance to practice them much but here is where I stand with the revers dual wield obi/ani spin. I have managed to tighten up the movements a bit since the last time. I suppose it helps not being on skates. I noticed in the last video of this that my arms were too high, I have been trying to lower the main part of the motion down to about waist level. In a single hand version, my off shoulder pops forward about the time I am making the second spin behind the back, so that is when I have tried to time the the second saber starting from the front. My right hand is still a bit faster than my left and tends to stay higher but I am working on that. By having the visual feedback in front of me, I am able to watch my shoulders a bit better and try to keep them in time. Unlike the forward variant, where things just clicked the first time I got it timed right, this one seems to have a lot less of a groove. That may come with practice. It would be nice if I could just pic up two sabers and do this without the conscious thought having to be there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofXoOisXWg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofXoOisXWg#)

Thats pretty slick darth cephalus. Its angers me that someone can do a duel wielding move, that i myself haven't yet mastered. May the force serve my needs. :D
When i get my saber back i need to practice. I'm only left puzzled by one thing. Why shave the beard dude?! it was epic.

 :) You can blame my wife for that one. I generally don't have one but was on a shaving strike until we got the hot water fixed. It had been out since early December. We finally got in all the parts and got it running and she called me on my promise to shave. She has begrudgingly agreed that it looked good and may let me have it back seasonally.

Here is my dual wield practice session with uncharacteristically green sabers in honor of the season. Watch for the inverse obo/ani (still a work in progress) and a hybrid inverse on right and forward on left variant. I have been trying to work on transitions. For anyone who wants to try the hybrid version, I find when timed right, it is a lot like dancing the slide. Your body will move one direction and then back. The video shows the alternating version but a simultaneous version is also possible.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OotzWRntgOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OotzWRntgOM#ws)

Video of 5 variations on the dual wield obi/ani spin. These are done with full size 36 inch blades to slow the movement for demonstration purposes. Variation 1 is the standard. Variation 2 is the hybrid with the standard spin with one hand and the inverted spin with the other. Variation 3 is the double alternating inverse. Variation 4 is the simultaneous standard spin. Variation 5 is the simultaneous inverted spin. As a note, variation 2 can be inverted by keeping the blades moving together in the opposite direction. I think I am almost close enough to the inverted double to be able to do a tutorial, so look for that soon as an addition to the doing things backwards series. Also pardon the breathing, one of these days I will have to learn to put music on.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqaw4KhYEqY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqaw4KhYEqY#)

This is rough yet but here is a practice video featuring upwards and downwards 1/2 palm spins and their use in direction changes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_gRv1T5uIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_gRv1T5uIM#)

Question for venturous. I have not tried to go through your staff tutorials yet but I was just viewing a few to see what I was in for when I decide to break out the coupler again. So my first question is have you considered remaking the staff videos with a lightsaber? The grip and weight distribution is different, so it would be interesting and useful to see these moves done with the weapon many on this forum will be using when they try them. I was also fishing for things that can be adapted to a single saber. Most of these are basically the same moves that can be done with a single saber with one notable exception: the finger roll. I had never seen that before. Have you ever tried it with a single saber? I am planning to myself but I don't know that it will roll right, partly because of the width of the saber (which brings me back to the previous point) and partly because of the balance.

Good question about the finger roll. The short answer is yes. It is easier to do it with a lighter blade in the hilt, which will move the balance point more toward the hilt and your fingers, but it is still possible with a heavier blade. I just tried it with one of my Phantasm Initiate hilts with a 24 inch MG initiate blade on it and was easily able to do it. If you've seen my single saber tutorials, I did one video showing how to do a finger roll to change from a standard grip to a reverse grip. The same would apply here, but you would just keep it going as in the staff finger roll.

As for redoing the staff videos, I have thought about it before in order to have all the videos using the same weapon (Phantasm staff/single hilts). I honestly don't know that it would make much of a difference though since the balance point would still be in the middle. The only difference between an actual saber and something else would be the diameter of the hilt and the weight, neither of which would have that much of an impact on the techniques. The only move I could see it making only a slight difference on would be the finger roll video, but the technique is the same regardless. If it were my single or dual saber videos, then I would probably redo them because the balance point and therefore the momentum would be different depending on what the person was practicing with. Spring is upon us, so I might consider getting out and redoing the videos again, but we'll see.

Here my attempt at one of the reverse obi ani moves.
and the 2nd vid is some kinda dual spinning technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPg5VN79YdE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPg5VN79YdE#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48709V3HJII# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48709V3HJII#)

Re-did the dual wielding wierd technique move.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M-IIaKStf4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M-IIaKStf4#)

and a new version of the Advanced dual reverse grip flowers 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhHkHrQ5tJE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhHkHrQ5tJE#)

and my first attempt at a butterfly kick ( b-kick ).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfxZiMwwUsY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfxZiMwwUsY#)

Enjoy

I have been working on the dual wield obi/ani and I think I have gotten to the point where I can do 8 variations pretty reliably. I am not counting alternating full plum flowers. They are simultaneous and alternating versions of each of the following: left hand invert and right hand forward, right hand invert and left hand forward, both hands invert, and both hands forward. Additionally, each variation looks different with tight orbits as opposed to wide orbits. Expect videos soon.

As promised, here is my tutorial video on the dual wield application of the inverted obi/ani. In all, it covers 8 variations. As the video states, timing is all in the shoulders. Next step:reverse grip.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_6SxadGY8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_6SxadGY8#)

That inverted simultaneous move is very similar to a Poi technique that I was trying to accomplish with two sabers a while ago. It seems like you've figured out how to do it. Good job on the tutorial and the explanations.

Nice work with all the obi/ani variations. Good luck with reverse grip .
Hopefully today i can work on some more videos to post as theres a few moves i've been working on again.
Heres the list of 5 videos i intend to post soon. so if you think you can do them already go for it.

1) Alternating plump flowers with inverted grips
2) Advanced reverse grip flowers tutorial and swapping to and from inverted grip while flowering.
3) my parallel blade technique development.
4) Simultaneous figure 8's inverted grip.
and finally
5) A tutorial for all my obi ani and plumb flower variations.

Think thats it for now. I've got a bit more confident with hand passes and flips. some of the contact rolls i don't think i'll learn. It seems like its a lot of effort to do for an simple result. Theres a couple of cool looking ones but i like to spread my focus on a multitude of moves and skills. And i believe i could achieve the same amount of spins or whatever that the contact rolls achieves, but with conventional spins. I like to try and maintain a high spinning velocity so i feel less in control rolling it over my hand etc. but then i'm willing to launch my saber 12 foot in the air for some cool aerials. I dunno. Not trying to put the contact rolls down as a skill as it looks and feels and is a difficult skill to pick up. And i'm big on showboating but i just don't think i'd use them all that often. but i could be wrong i could grow to love them after some more attempts.
anyways, I'll catch you all later and wish you all some good Sabering.

Now for the most part I agree with this sentiment. The rolls are harder to pull off and often the results are relatively the same. The main differences in the moves are the feel (more like a pendulum then a propeller) and the fact that the rolls work better with reverse grip in some cases than the flips because of the weight distribution. On the whole though, they are a bit slower, and as mentioned, the results are very similar. The two exceptions to this are the double roll from part 9, which completes 3 rotations with greater control than trying to do 3 rotations with an areal (this would require a chain of two separate moves to do), and the 1.5 rotation grip switch from part 8. The grip switch, while it accomplishes the same goal as the switch in part 4, can accomplish it faster. With the part 4 variety, you are limited by the terminal velocity of the saber as determined by weight and drag coefficient. With the version in part 8, you are adding force to the spin allowing it to move faster than the saber could move were you to break contact. Now that you mention it, once I finish off this tutorial series, I might make a final video talking about some of these differences.

Dual Saber juggling.  Well chuffed i pulled this off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA3pZJ1SYeY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA3pZJ1SYeY)

hmmm don't think my links are showing the vids

Very nice. You gave me something to practice. Point for that.

Your links are not showing because of the https at the beginning of your link. If you remove the 's' from the end, so that it is only http, your vids will show up again.

Tutorial 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-ZqrpbI-U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-ZqrpbI-U#)

Tutorial 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTRrwNrTvjY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTRrwNrTvjY#)

parallel blade technique. Think i've developed this as far as it can, as movement is pretty limited keeping them parallel. Just wish i'd chained them to other moves like the poi transitions or flowers. And i need to see what it looks like at night. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBTctXZiSH0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBTctXZiSH0#)

I don't know if you have tried it yet, but that flip addition to the obi/ani is actually workable on a backwards obi/ani as well and actually easier to catch because of the direction of rotation. Video coming soon.

can't wait to see that. in the meantime i have done.

under the leg trick.  not sure if this is going too far or not. i'm sure i can get it looking more stylish and smoother.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UgxBQnnLkk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UgxBQnnLkk#)


two sabers in one hand. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9_IxD3DkJE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9_IxD3DkJE#)

What a difference a day makes. Here is a video of the forward and reverse version of the obi/ani flip. If you are interested in trying this, get down the motion but work the timing off of the flips. Trust your hands to do what they know how to do between the flips. Towards the end I speed it up a bit by minimizing the first backwards beat and bringing it down beside my leg. Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd8ECEJB_Ew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd8ECEJB_Ew#)

amazing. another awesome addition to the reverse obi ani style. i need to learn this. Thank you for pushing me to learn increasingly complex and insane saber stunts.
Think i'm just going to practice everything i've learned over the past few weeks. as so many new moves have been developed. Not going to try and make up any more yet. unless one jumps out at me, which is usually the case.

Glad to do it and thanks for leading me off track into dual wield weirdness. I may take a break as well and finish up my single weapon tutorial series. I still have three more videos planned before I can consider it done.

This practice video contains a building sequence from the tutorial series on using the force, building from part 1 to part 12. Inverted and regular grip are demonstrated as well as transitions.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8j2XjqaJAo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8j2XjqaJAo#)

Here are a few more videos coming quickly as I near the end of the series.

Part 10:  This video demonstrates a variation of the double hand roll from part 9 in which the saber is passed from one hand to the other to complete the roll rather than maintaining contact with both hands.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN7wHnDgVrY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN7wHnDgVrY#)

Part 11: This video deals with rolling the saber around another limb or hand and back into the starting hand.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKNazVXHytM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKNazVXHytM#)

Part 12: This video deals with Palm spins in a figure eight pattern, on a single side, and in a moch obi/ani.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZqXzlnitE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZqXzlnitE#)

Part 13: This video deals with compound finger rolls as they apply to single saber and reversing a grip.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRY2qpGKnm0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRY2qpGKnm0#)

Part 14: A full version of the 1/2 palm spin from part 13.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXTfv3Id_Q8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXTfv3Id_Q8#)

I usually try and push the hilt around with a finger as i horizontally spin in above my head. i think i can get 3 rotations before it starts to loose speed and drop. Maybe finger rolls could also work. i've been working on quickening my abilities in that, i'll give it a go.
Anyways...


 Under the leg hand pass. wahooo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uos7zKPwxms# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uos7zKPwxms#)

It looks like rather than the under leg toss you were trying before, you elected for an under leg pass. Good choice. It looks slick. One has to comment on the cruel irony that after such a good set, you drop the final flourish. Sometimes the fates are just cruel. Good work though and the music is a nice touch.

Tried my hand (or my leg as it were) at CH3M15T's under leg passes. Here are the preliminary results.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZc4CMrfKL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZc4CMrfKL4#)

Also completed my tutorial on dual wield applications of flips and spins featuring a timing tutorial on the forward and reverse obi/ani flips (what some of you have been calling saber juggling). I did not cover the simultaneous. Maybe later when I am more comfortable with it. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVZ9HYMoL4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVZ9HYMoL4)

heres a video i put together of various clips. Dual wielding pulling off some tricks, juggles, and new moves, general showboating
i hope you enjoy.

! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N26tkPK2ca4#)

Very good stuff. I couldn't watch it originally because it said the video was private. Now that I can see it, it looks like you have got the simultaneous down. That and there are several other new and interesting things in there. Unfortunately, a lot of them require more airspace than my practice area can provide. Dark side point and a special "damn you" for making me have to find a new place to practice.  :P

thanks, yeah i didn't realize i left it on private. I've been wanting to show that vid for days. First edit process on youtube failed. 2nd one finally took like 8 hours or something mental to process. but yeah.Its finally here for me to boast about. but at the moment i'm genuinely Proud of some of my progress i've made doing the simultaneous reverse dual obi flips. still can't do it alternating tho, frustrating. Utilized your arm roll for dual wielding. As well as a more confident under the leg aerial. Feels easier while duel wielding... when i go for the under the leg throw single blade for some reason i mess up a lot. where as i think i've found my balance with two blades now.  And a sort of alternating plum flower variation. One is forward and other in reverse grip. I can keep the reverse grip blade continually spinning as i do a sort of plum flower move with my other blade. Thought it was awesome when i figure out i could do it.
Your inside practice space is now Obsolete. lol. sorry man. At least summer is on its way. As long as you have a patch of grass you don't mind ruining. my back yard lawn is in a terrible state now. Anyways, hows your progress with the over-head spin. and i'm now stuck as for what to learn next. Other than the alternating reverse obi flips i don't know what else to aim for now.

Yeah I noticed the arm roll in there. Have you tried dual wield 1/2 pal spins yet? As for me, I have found a way to make the finger roll perpetual in a vertical spin using an adaption of a move posted by Venturous. I am trying to see if it can be translated overhead. Another thing I am working on that has hit something of a dead end is a dual wield saber switch. I can toss them between hands but I want something that does not break the spin. I think I may be able to do it with a roll or flip but I have that one on a back-burner. If you want to try to tackle it, be my guest.

challenge accepted . . .


that being said. i've taken a couple a cracks at trying to have a spinning saber dual switch over and kept hitting dead ends. The path i was leading towards might be an accurate high toss while hopefully completing a quick and well timed hand pass, and in time for the hand to be ready to receive the catch. dual aerial switch over is too bloody crazy, this was one of the "dead ends". but, i think somewhere there maybe a way to do a couple of switchovers. but its far too darn hazzardous.

bing and as i'm typing. surely you might be able to roll one over your arm as you also toss the other Saber, difficult to catch the saber with the arm its just rolled around i think. i'll give it a shot in my no ceiling limit practice space.  ;D

arm roll switch-over seems impossible, i've manage to pull off a sloppy high pass aerial switch over, but difficult to continue spinning and moving in a fluid way after the catch. after i've worked on it some more and smoothed it out, i'll commit it to video.

By working from a simultaneous inverse dual obi/ani to a toss between hands up front to a 1/2 hand roll and repeat, I have a albeit clunky version of a dual wield double hand switch that might work.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNCpX0aAg44 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNCpX0aAg44#)

Also today, some work cleaning up the continuous finger roll. By replacing the toss that is done at the side with a palm spin overhead, it is more fluid. The arm still juts forward to reset the roll but in theory this can be repeated as long as your shoulder permits you.

www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=PyGMbonNF3E&video_referrer=watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyGMbonNF3E#)

I was trying that leg toss today with nothing but disastrous results. I finally figured out what the problem was: my war glaive pommel. The added length and bulk was preventing me from getting the rotation I needed on the toss. While my hand was all the way under my leg and ready to toss, the pommel was not clear. Got it covered with the initiate though.

yeah the longer your saber the more difficult it is too get it round your leg. Luckily i'm a lanky bloke. I have hit and miss days with it. After a few fails today i was on the ball.
Your switch over video is awesome and makes me envious of your technique. Point to you sir. Like how your over the head finger roll spin can now be repeated. i still use the method i'm comfortable with because i can get it quite fast.


Anyway. Proud to present you all with my lastest video, which i hope you all enjoy. Should be and under the leg aerial switch over in there somewhere but its dark and difficult to notice. but it is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSlxBAgELjc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSlxBAgELjc#)

Nice work. You have that areal switch down. Though it does stall the one hand, it kicks off nicely from the flowers. One's eye follows the motion not the stall. Well done and point. I took a break from the dual wield to work on some staff adaptations of the flips and rolls including a dual wield staff single saber. Expect that vid in the next day or two.

Here is a montage of me messing around with a staff. All movies are demonstrated at the start ad are adapted from the rolls and spins tutorial. Some are still clunky with staff. I also put in a token effort of adding music and some basic editing. Enjoy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkdw62aXGn4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkdw62aXGn4#ws)

I love montage videos like these. You have progressed quite a ways, so well done to you sir.

Thanks, I have mostly gotten used to the extra blade, the main issue is the extreme discrepancy in the weight. My initiate blades are HG. With the dual hand stuff, I have to consciously slow down the saber to compensate, and with the one handed spins I have to beware of it generating so much momentum over time that it gets away from me. Something to work with I suppose. Some time in the near future, I will pick through your staff work videos again for tips.

While I am here, a question for CH3M15T. I have gotten pretty good at your areal hand switch technique. I notice though that you do the areal almost exclusively with the right hand. Have you tried alternating between right and left? Just continue the alternating flowers into the upward wield after the right areal catch, wait for the left hand to come up under the right and throw the other switch. It does not land as naturally but if I can get to a point where I can throw them back and forth, I will be sure to post a video. Practice time on this is limited though as I dare not do it indoors over solid wood floors.

Wood floors be damned! Here is a demo video that has examples of what I am talking about. A dual wield easter practice session set to music. Features work with flips, different flourishes and flowers, reverse grip switches, aerials, hand switches, and horribly colored blades. Enjoy

www.youtube.com/watch?v=djh2WOtDYhk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djh2WOtDYhk#ws)

Couple of reasons why i favor my right hand. Firstly being that i'm right-handed. Second is that my left handed saber is still the plastic hasbro, darth vader hilt. I find it too be too wide and clunky and has alot of sharp corders and protruding bits that can hinder catches. I was going to wait untill i get my 2nd ultrasaber before focusing more on aerials. I'm still trying to train my left hand to do more reverse grip moves.

Point for your new videos. I feel like the apprentice again.

I wouldn't say that. It is your move, I am just building on it. Also if it helps, I am having a hell of a time trying to get that move down where you rotate the right blade behind you while more or less throwing a plum flower with the left, and the under leg flip is beginning to look like a move I may never do well. As a tip for practicing left areals, treat the right hand like a prop and throw the saber around it with the left for a bit. Once you get that, use the good hand switch you developed, just switch the good saber into the left first and then throw the areal. At the end of my video I do some of your aerial switches back and forth, and because I am using different colored sabers, you can see that the one in the air during most of the end sequence is the yellow one. It comes out almost like the yellow saber is orbiting the pink one.

By the way, if you are sending in for another saber, I highly suggest getting something that has a comparable design/weight to your first and chipping in the extra $20 for a coupler (shorter blades too if you can afford it at the time) I think you would have fun trying some of these things with a saber staff from time to time. The extra weight and momentum makes it whole new creature.

bit of a sloppy practice but my under legs flip switch over is vision able. Hurray.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfOk-J2G7Ys# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfOk-J2G7Ys#)



My continual spinning blade move is my reverse grip spin. If you work on this reverse grip spin so you can maintain a nice rhythm for a while and also speed it up amazingly. I can spin faster in reverse grip better than forwards. All the left hand is doing is sort of a plump flower, it is just like doing the alternate plumb flower move but with one of the blades in reverse grip. To keep it spinning now i don't even have to think as i was reverse grip spinning with old canes and sticks long before i even got a saber. but the principle is almost the same as the alternate plumb. Try not to keep the reverse grip spinning to begin with maybe. When flicking the left hand into the plumb when the right is spinning, you still have to flick your hips and body around to give it momentum. but not too far to clash blades. it involves a bit of an awkward lean and maybe a bit of control with how far to reach and swing your arm. It looked a bit clunky when i first tried it but ironed it out rather quickly. but i love reverse grip variations, as i've learned in single blade how to do as many things as possible in reverse grip. Spins, blade barrier, hand passes etc. i may work on a few more reverse grip variations of moves before doing another vid.


actually heres the video of the reverse spin. Simple and visually pleasing. Can be useful to adapt to other things. I like to try and spin like this as long and as fast as i can to help build memory and stamina for inverted wielding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurjzHccazQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurjzHccazQ#)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurjzHccazQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurjzHccazQ)

I saw you threw at least one flip switch with the left. Nice. I fear my saber time is on hold until my out of town guests leave. Should be at least late next week before I have a chance to do any serious practice. When able, I will see if I can get that spin/flower hybrid of yours to work for me and try to polish up my simultaneous switch.

I'm not too fluid with your half palm switch. so i find the duel switch difficult. i'm running out of things to work on again even though i've got alot too practice with. One move that i aim for and eludes me is trying to catch an aerial behind my back. Would be epic.
Anyways, i'm waiting for my 2nd ultrasaber to arrive  ;D
initiate, silver with colour discs. Can't wait. excited for may 4th. going to try and watch all 6 films back to back. its an Early birthday present to me being my birthdays on the 8th.
And Go Team ME! this is my 100th post.

_LORD_CH3M15T_

Congrats and early happy birthday. I think you will like the silver initiate. If you get around to it, I recommend LEE filters rather than the color discs. Only costs a few bucks for the swatch pack and a lot more versatile than the color discs. Did you get a coupler? As for the simultaneous switch, I actually found a more direct way to do it. That inverse double obi/ani switch was clunky. Once my out of town visitor leaves and I catch up on grading, I will post a video. Basically though, it is a simultaneous downward spin into a 1/2 palm spin to invert grips, into a double toss in front of the face to regular grip. It can be transitioned to off of a simultaneous downward and can transition to the same or to an alternating or simultaneous obi/ani.

Been a while since my last video. Now that some time has cleared up, here is a tutorial showing a few ways to pull off a hand switch in a dual wield routine from an obi/ani, flowers, and a simultaneous downward spin. Leg flips are also briefly discussed. This covers my take on CH3M15T's flip switch and the simultaneous version I mentioned earlier. There are a few drops and collisions in here as I get caught up in the explanation, but the theory is sound. Look for more polished versions in future demos.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXva3BbXCjs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXva3BbXCjs#)

I love how you and Chemist are continually breaking the mold with these moves and finding new ways to adapt them to other things. I personally like the first version of the dual wield switch from the flower. The pause isn't too dramatic and looks good when returning to the flowers afterward. Good job all around and keep up the innovation.

Thanks Venturous. So for today I have a couple more resources and a couple dual wield challenges.

The resources
Venturous mentioned Lord Tains in his videos and on the forum. I thought we might benefit from a link

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL709099574915B454 (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL709099574915B454)

This is another staff resource I found helpful from expertvillage

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6E135A8705590AD6 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6E135A8705590AD6)

The challenges
1
I have been messing with reverse grip a bit and am trying to figure out a reverse grip version of the alternating obi/ani. I have a version that can be seen in the last half of this video but I had yo add an extra beat to accomplish it. Basically the same thing Arcanus did in forward grip single saber over in the saberfit thread. Anyone want to take a crack at a more streamlined version?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0O8YNBiXzs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0O8YNBiXzs#ws)

2
I have also been revisiting Venturous's alternating full plum flower to see if there is a way to weed the stall out of it so that both sabers are in constant motion. I have a feeling that it can be done but have not had a lot of time to work on it. Any interest?

3
With the exception of the overhead and the sideways flowers, the horizontal plain is more or less unexplored. There must be a fluid and repeating spin that can be accomplished around the body while keeping the balde moving horizontally.

Hello all. so cool  I found you on the forum my son and I have been working on our spins and techniques for a wile now with no real master to teach us or lead us to the path of the guardian. so I hope to learn every thing I can from you all. the videos have all ready bean extremely helpful so thank you and may the Force be with you!

Happy to help and glad you found us. We are a bit off the beaten path here. If there is anything that any of us can help you with or anything we can help you find, just ask. Also, if you want to post videos for feedback or just because, feel free.

So a while ago, I posted a 1.5 spin flip that rolled over the thumb. I briefly showed the other side of it which is a back hand roll for 1.5 rotations, but I did not discuss it much. I just revisited it and isolated the motion. Forgive the rattling as I weighted down the pommel with quarters to compensate for the lighter hilt and to slow down the movement for demonstration purposes. Expect a tutorial on this eventually.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ5CkKAxvBw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ5CkKAxvBw#)

I felt inspired today so I set about the continuous double alternating full plum flower spin work I mentioned. Here is what I have so far. I added one more beat and adjusted the timing to get this. If I can polish it up, I will try to explain better how it works.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj9p1PHGd08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj9p1PHGd08#)

So I think I am at the point that I have the dual plum flower down. I also came across a 3/4 plum flower variation while I was working on it that works in single and dual weapon. After some thought and dissection, I think it is worth a tutorial series on opening the plum flower. In all, I have found about 19 to 21 variations for single weapon and at least that many again for dual wield. When I get a chance, I will put together a teaser/demo and a tutorial to follow. To do it right, I may have to back up and retrace some of the path trod by others.

ok not really had much time to do anything recently with starting a new job, bad weather etc. Thanks for name dropping me a couple of videos back Cephalus for the duel switch overs. ahhhh validation. and the under the leg switch over is so ridiculous.  anyways. i've only been playing around with my new saber a bit, getting use to the weight and length and what blade to use. playing around with colours and taking photos.   When i have more time i'll get on with a few new things i'm working on.. Again i've worked back to some poi moves to see if they're transferrable.  until heres a couple minutes of spins with both my ultra sabers.


! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2YJNPDjc_M#)

Not a problem. So another thing I found by accident (when spinning with an actual sword last night because I left my saber at the store) is what I can only describe as a single sided full flower or maybe a circular obi/ani. Thing is it is five beats (two in front and 3 behind) and obi/ani s back over the top of the shoulder. After I found it, I worked up a dual wield version today and the timing is smooth and workable. Video later. I have to say that working on this new tutorial series, I am curious to see what I will find. When I break this stuff down for other people, it helps me understand it on an intellectual level and helps me see where I can flex it to make other things. Can't wait to get started and to see what you come up with next that I may be able to play with while I do it.

picked up a couple of hip reels and decorative spins. On the horrizontal plane i've got a few moves which are just using with sideways flowers while turning myself around and combining the over head spin also. or for the single blade you can sort of do a horizontal obi ani, if you lean over so your back is also flat for the whip around. Still want to learn the behind the back catch.... oh and i'm also figuring out how to spin myself around while spinning, but with each blade at different stages of alternating flowers so the hilts are apart as i'm spinning and turning rather than together. difficult to explain really. I'll get working on some new video examples soon.

in the mean time theres this. some obi ani variations, that alternating plumb that you were working on and a few others.

! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXn-DtYZZFY#)

Your last two videos are showing as private.

By the way, here is a teaser video of the upcoming tutorial series on exploring the plum flower spin I was talking about. The series will cover more than 40 variations, including single saber and dual wield, forward and reverse grip, simultaneous and alternating timing, parallel and hybrid moves, and forward and reverse directions. Demonstrates short and long saber, spins, and minimal flips. As an added bonus, part of this includes footage of me in a ridiculous hat! Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSyoIs9mpzY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSyoIs9mpzY#ws)

CH3M15T, I still can't see your last two videos. When you get a chance, could you make them public? As for me, my last vid was a bit long. This one is just the newer moves: 5 beat alternating plum, alternating plum, alternating 3/4 plum.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCvYM0tYA_s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCvYM0tYA_s#)

my bad. Damn you youtube.
hope you can see them now.
need to learn that 5 beat!!

The first one still shows as private but I can see the second one. That one looks great. I think you hit the timing on the dual plum flower at about 18 seconds in after you start pulling the back saber up sooner. I also noticed that you had worked a hybrid in there. I'm glad someone else picked this up. I have not seen footage of one of these in the dark or with long saber as you have done around 1:50. I have to say, it looks amazing. Your arm movements with the inverse are still very large, but that actually makes it almost an isolation when you do it. The five beat is easier to learn than the dual flower. Just think of your arm in a more circular way. Pull out the obi/ani low, rise with the second beat, pop it over your shoulder with the third, descend with two beats and repeat. In general, think about it as a circle rather than just a front and back; you are going up and down more than you are going forward and back though you are doing both.  Also be careful on the third beat not to hit yourself in the back of the head (I have done this). As another point of interest, I have to practice that simultaneous crossover you are doing. It looks like it eliminates a lot of the blade clash problems.

Yeah that video should Be visaBle. its not very good tho as i was having issues with the new length and weight of my new saBer. I've taken a couple of inches off my Blade and now its fine. Took a video earlier of horizontal spins, oBi ani and a horizontal figure 8 to do in reverse grip with a short Blade. Could Be a useful way for lady jedi to remove under arm hair. I'll post it later on tonight if time permits me. Or i'll wait to film a few more things i've picked up.

That simulaneous cross over looks and also feels right. Both hilts are in reverse grip for it. But i think a similar version can Be done in forward grip.

Ok. Heres a nice selection for you all.

Horizontal single blade spins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B1xJrtDwYA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B1xJrtDwYA#)

the reverse grip alternating plumb flower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUVFNDvU1uA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUVFNDvU1uA#)

and the horizontal / sideways flowers spin.
! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa9-V2_fAjw#)

hope you find these helpful and/or interesting.

The flower spins look good. I will have to play with those (for the record, my furniture will probably hate you). As to the plum flower, it looks good in reverse grip, very close to the body though so could be dangerous at speed. One thing I noticed though is that you have stumbled onto the same thing I did. Your alternating plum flowers now contain 6 beats instead of a typical 5. You added a transitional beat after the two upward strikes for timing. I was going to post a video later tonight with that distinction in it, showing a rise in beats from 1 beat to 7. What you have now is a 6, what you had before was a 5. By the way, I am loving the new second saber. The old Ultimate FX Vader was starting to look a bit worn.

Here it is. This is a single wield with a double wield to follow. It starts with a single beat, and adds beats up through seven and then back down. It features two types of five beat: a full plum flower and a single side flower.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvQEOo5l3T0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvQEOo5l3T0#)

Nice cephalus. I have my own set of beats that i use but i can now add some more. point for your endeavour.

ok so i'm not sure what to call this move..... its tricky.
rolling one blade around the other. and trying to flick it up in the air for the spin and catch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgIq1C1ACog#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgIq1C1ACog#ws)


just some flowers. while mashing the buttons on my rgb.
Colour changing saber flowers. Kinda wish my other saber could also do that. but it takes alot of strength to do the moves i want while pressing all the buttons.
I have to keep the hilt in the same position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku2rbzkbsNQ#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku2rbzkbsNQ#ws)

That last one actually reminds me a lot of devil sticks. It makes me want to see if I can work that into a 3 saber application. At any rate, here is the dual wield and inverse version of the video I posted last night. As you can see, I inadvertently add extra beats to the 4 and 5 sometimes as the natural flow of the saber pulls one into the 6 beat on the crossover.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDIKvmSmJc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDIKvmSmJc#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9rVzjq0nxY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9rVzjq0nxY#)

It took some doing, but I think I have figured out the inverse dual wield continuous plum flower. I will post a sample video this evening showing my progress.

As promised. The first is an early attempt at a dual inverse continuous plum flower spin. This uses the inverse Obi/Ani and inverse flower from the tutorial on doing things backwards. In this video, I try to put it together, piece by piece. The second builds on the first video, it is a more polished up version of the dual wield inverse plum flower spin. A bit more polish and I will look into a tutorial.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSqKMhoWroI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSqKMhoWroI#)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Z-B0D8O3k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Z-B0D8O3k#)

Did I spy a Cthulu Fez in one of those vids?

That you did good sir. That you did.

Also worth posting is this video containing the saberstaff version of the inverted Obi/Ani spin and inverted plum flower and the following which contains a saberstaff version of the inverted and standard Obi/Ani combo.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=edO_6QYUDAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edO_6QYUDAE#)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo2WWLjKUVM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo2WWLjKUVM#)

Nicely done. Have a point.

Indeed that reverse simulateous plumb is epic. I must learn it.
The weather isn't letting me practice this week
Question cephalus. Your practice space. i'm just curious. Is it your place of work. or do you own and/or live in some sort of library?
also have another point

The practice space you are seeing in most of my videos is my store. I own the second largest video store in the state of Oregon. When there is no one there or when we close at night, I can practice. It is nice because it has high ceilings. The background that you see in my basics videos is my back yard at home. Between teaching and running the store, I am not there much.

Venturous and Cephalus- Kudos to you. I've had my Dark Monarch for about 2 months and everything I know about spinning it has been learned through you two  or TPLA. I'm at the point I'm very comfortable with one hand wield, and awaiting a grab bag saber as I write. So, onward to the dual wield until I can afford another Monarch and a coupler for a Royal Staff......ha.
Seriously- keep expanding your craft and I'll keep looking up to you for new tricked out saber spins!

Glad you are learning! The key is to keep practicing and never give up.

Glad I could help. My main advice when you look into dual wield and eventually staff is to remember not to neglect the single saber. Each saber style has a unique set of skills and tricks associated with it though all rely on the same spinning foundation. There are flips with a single saber you may never be able to pull off with a staff and rolls with a staff that you can't pull off with a single saber. Dual wield, where you are going next, is a lot of coordination but it takes a lot of rolls and hand switches off the table. The trick with dual wield is to keep at it. Know that the move can be done, have confidence that you will get it, keep tying, and eventually they click in. It is almost magical when it happens and something that has not been working suddenly is. Sometimes they then click back out again, but just keep at it. If you hit a wall, switch back to single saber and improve your technique.

Our of curiosity, what blades are you  using? the way the saber rotates around makes me think it's a midgrade, and heavies are likely to be much different with this technique. Or they may not work at all. Would be interesting to master it and throw it into a duel.

I can't speak for CH3M15T, but I use heavy grade blades with my initiates. It sets the point of balance just above the emitter. If I use long blades, I go with with mid grade. The moves I do can be done with heavy grade long blades but they get slower as the point of balance shifts out from the hilt. With my single wield emerald Archon/Warglaive combo, I can use either type. A HG blade puts the point of balance just north of the emitter with the heavier hilt. I still prefer it with the MG though as it puts the point of balance right in the middle of the choke. As always though, you can weight down any hilt to offset this by tinkering with the pommel.

i use the mid grade blades for 2 reasons. one is cost, i always get my spare blades as the grab bag ones. and the 2nd is i have my blade lengths quite long. not sure exactly, forgot what lengths they were to start with, and i shaved a couple of inches of some of my blades to stop myself from stabbing the floor with every spin. The balance point for mine are about an inch onto the blade from the emitter. could be made more a comfortable balance point. but i don't want to add more mass.


anyways, first day of recovery from a horrible 3day migraine / fever. I must be better as i've learned some new tricks.
the first one is sort of an alternating flowers hybrid, i call it the separated flowers at the moment.
the second move is just a 4 beat / alternating clock face move. not sure if Darth Cephalus covered it. think its different to his 4 beat application. anyway i hope you enjoy.


! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psLcD1QkTj0#)

Point for that. I also recently discovered that alternating clock face but you beat me to the punch. As for those separated flowers: solid concept. I would love to see you get comfortable enough with it you can use it as a regular transition between flowers. Downward flower, split flower, upward flower, split flower, repeat. I don't know it if would need a double or single beat with the splits to pull off but the optical illusion would make it look like the tempo changes when it does not. You hit it once like that on your video and it stood out in my mind. The blades looked slow because they were separate and the action was split, when the tempo came together, it appeared double time without changing the speed. Interesting.

I have been working on what I am terming an upside down obi/ani in forward and revers. Once I get the timing down on the dual wield inverted upside down obi/ani (a mouthfull isn't it), I will post a demo vid.

And here is it.

This video demonstrates a move that is essentially an obi/ani spin reflected along a horizontal plane towards the top of the body such that it continues over the shoulder rather than moving past the waist. It is here demonstrated in forward and reverse direction, in partnership with a standard obi/ani, and in single and dual wield.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KdsHS8OtkQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KdsHS8OtkQ#)

Some practice material where i'm going over old and new moves and experimenting with others. Towards the end i do a few more hybrid flowers moves, using one grip normal and one in reverse.  Nothing ground breaking yet. Starting to run out of ideas again.  still need to learn all those different beat alternating moves, and the reverse alternating plumb keeps kicking my arse. my left arm won't co-operate fully yet.
anyways. please enjoy and mtfbwy ...... always.
(oh and it shouldn't be left on private this time aswell, lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFax1FEodPY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFax1FEodPY#)

I can't watch the videos until tomorrow  but I am looking forward to it. As for the inverse plum flower, expect a tutorial in time. The trick is to think of the transition from upward to downward as an overhead stab and to be prepared to keep most of the action on one side of the body. I have been working on a six beat variant that might flow a little better. I have to say that it is amazing to me how much variety we are able to find in the relatively simple act of swinging a lighted stick in a circle. I have actually been asked by the local college at which I teach to come up with a syllabus for teaching saber spinning as a fitness class. I am not sure that anything wil come of it, but I have submitted one all the same. I have my fingers crossed that they will want to try to run with it.

just a simple montage of single wielding. can't neglect my single swordmanship. mainly right handed footage as its my most confident to commit to video.
daytime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyrzdDfYt3U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyrzdDfYt3U#)

and similar vid, except its evening and my lightsaber is lit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUNTsWf29p8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUNTsWf29p8#)


and finally some fire and sith practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OeYXMKncFA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OeYXMKncFA#)

please enjoy and may the force serve you.

I was out of town all weekend, but these were a treat when I got back. Your single wield looks great. I even spied a couple 1/2 rolls in there. As for the dual wield, I particularly liked the opposite direction spins. That is one of those moves that looks good and makes so much sense that I have wonder why it never occurred to me to try it. There is something else you are doing in your flowers transitions that is different but I can't put my finger on it yet. Merits another look. As for me, I am putting together part 2 of the intermediate series. look for it later tonight.

I think I figured out what I was seeing in your video. Your transition between flowers when you do it quick and move to a strike is basically a flower in the 12:00 beat above your head. I have been playing around with it and you can actually do flowers in a clock face pattern (3:00, 6:00, 9:00, and 12:00) so basically flowing one clock face with another. I have also been playing around with your split flowers. The transition seems to be roughly the same as the poi transition from one of your earliest videos. I think there is some complexity in the flowers you are tapping into that I did not know was there.

Ah my poi master friend can do a basic flower consistantly (at 12:00)  above his head. i like going low with the first transition. (toward 6:00). difficult to swoop down low with long  blades for stabbing the floor. i'm able to flower over my head as i bring it round , but for some reason find it quite awkward to maintain it in that position. (lol)
Yesterday he was gloating about it. I can do more tricks than him,  but he says as long as theres something he can do that i can't.  grrrrr.
also we had a few duels..we had a duel where we were  both using inverted grip. it was epicly  bad.

anyways,  i think theres a few more things to do with flowers which can lead to more easier, or more fluid, better looking transitions between other moves.
 but i've been working on those dual hand passes of yours recently.

I think I might be able to help you out with that..that is unless you would rather figure it out on your own. In the meantime, this practice session features me playing around with the idea of a circular flowers set patterned off the clock face spin. Also featured are your split and recombined flowers finished off with the most recent version of my reverse dual Obi/Ani.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg_Z-jVQrZI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg_Z-jVQrZI#)

Might as well post this over here too. I'm taking a break a bit from being serious. If only there were a way for a budget ninja to master dual wield flower spins and transitions at work and in his back yard. Help me DEVO, you're my only hope!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbEkb42B5ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbEkb42B5ro#ws)

This one highlights some of my investigation into dual wield flowers, circular flowers, split flowers, flower hand switches and related areas. I am getting comfortable with the split flowers finally, though the transition is still a bit rough into upward wield as you can see. I also missed a flip catch which tells me those are getting out of practice. Mostly it is just playing around to DEVO and taking a break from anything relating to the obi/ani spin. Enjoy.

glad you've been mastering the split flowers. Chuffed i discovered it. Its a simple idea, but maybe easily overlooked. Flowers for me are the foundation of continuous flow. So now with the split flowers, i can tie into finger rolls into and out of reverse grip, speeding or slowing one of the blade to achieve the simultaneous cross over/ figure 8's (which i can also achieve in dual reverse grip) , And using the split flowers i can go into some of the obi-ani / reverse obi ani hybrids. not forgetting to throw in a few swooping orbits in there too to add some more variation to the humble flower spins.  And of course easiest to to do arial tricks and hand switches using flowers too. Not sure what else can be created / discovered around the flowers once i've mastered doing it above my head constantly. but theres already quite a lot of variation to play around with there.
Anyways. Awesome split flowering Cephalus, Oh and Awesome song choice also. Just too bad DEVO died not too long ago  :'(

They lost their base player Bob, but the rest of them are still touring. Still yeah, not the same with one of the original 4 missing. They are also ditching the energy domes this time around. As to the spins, I have also noticed the flow of the flowers while the obi/anis and others are more like a holding pattern. For me, the easiest transition from the split flowers seems to be to the dual inverse. Not sure why as a hybrid would be less work, but it just seems to happen. It might be because I put so much work into learning that one that my muscles default there.

Practice triple wield saber spins and hand switches (saberstaff and single saber) in red, white, and blue.  Music gets a bit emo to be patriotic but the beat was right. The technique is a bit clunky as yet but it is getting there. Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAY3DzQbPdQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAY3DzQbPdQ#ws)

picked up a few new little tricks here and there, quite a few of them are the reverse grip obi flips and things like that. Couldn't be bothered making loads of little vids for each trick. So they're all in this.  enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IZcSzT-77E# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IZcSzT-77E#)

Epic indeed. I particularly like that dual switch you were pulling off in the first bit at about 1:30. I will have to try that. I am behind on the videos recently as my wife and I found out we will be bringing our first little Sith into the world. Prep work for that takes a lot of my time but I do have another video or two recorded. It is just a matter of finding the time to edit and upload.

congratulations.. Make the most of it. that first year will fly by after the 9months of waiting is over.   My little 2 year old sith likes picking up my sabers and making the noise when she hits you with them. she even tries to spin it around now when i ask her to do some tricks.

Nothing like starting them out right.  :)

Congrats Cephalus!  Children are a gift.  :-)

Congrats indeed, Cephalus.

Also, thanks to your videos, I figured out the Obi-Ani with my bokken.  (I'm a rank novice at any kind of spinning)

Thank you everyone. Yes we are both pretty excited. He is due in December, then I just have a few years to gauge his leanings and decide on the color of his first saber. We have already picked out his first batman outfit. In the meantime, here is part 4 of the advanced series with part 5 to follow soon. This video is not as flashy as some of the others. It deals with body movement relative to the saber. It discusses the basic mechanics of taking over motion for the saber that leads to large orbits, isolations, and body spins. Enjoy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wVRfeFD3g&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wVRfeFD3g#ws)

A couple other things I am working on.
The first video deals with a version of an obo/ani lightsaber spin with a beat added on each side (a 5 beat super obi/ani): in dual wield forward and reverse variants. Reverse is still a bit shaky at times but it is getting there.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx50El4XOQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wx50El4XOQ#)
Speaking of shaky, the next is my attempt at something I saw in one of CH3M15T's videos that I liked. It is a dual simultaneous plum flower spin with two hand switches. I show it with the stages building up. I am not fluid with this yet but here you have it. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6KAoNFJSlo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6KAoNFJSlo)

I thought i was copying one of your dual switch over moves. and also i think your plumb flower hand switch is different to mine. as in my first pass it goes from normal to inverted grip. then the 2nd pass back puts it back into forward grip. With yours you're always in forward grip.

 Your 5 beat super obi/ani is awesome in forwards and reverse and its watch i'm trying to currently practice.

So it is. I didn't notice that. You replaced my 1/2 palm switch with a reverse grip upward figure 8 that I thought was in forward grip. I replaced that with another 1/2 rotation in the flip and a forward grip figure 8. Looks like there are several ways to accomplish this.

A couple of new things I stumbled on last night while messing around. New versions of the forward and inverse dual alternating plum flower.

Slight adjustment on the previous version using a half twist to forward spins rather than moving all the way across the body. Makes the move more fluid and lets me keep it low without having to contend with my head in the crossover.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWDG1MggOQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWDG1MggOQ#)

Same as the last but backwards. Notice the crossover arm has to go to the outside of the other arm to avoid collision.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRX5pq_mqXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRX5pq_mqXQ#)

Here's a teaser of the upcoming Jar'Kai dual wield tutorial series re-posted here from another thread. This started as a practice session where I was working on the dual hand switch, but after I landed it a few times, I slipped into freestyle and ended up doing most of the moves that will be covered in the series. I left it as one take and set to Iron Maiden's 2 Minutes to Midnight. In it, you can see the newest version of the alternating plums, both working hand switches, some tosses, and a few interesting transitions I am playing with. I used the dual obi/ani as a neutral/resting rhythm. Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0QTtl5SKo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0QTtl5SKo#)

Very nice. You've gotten those moves to be pretty smooth now, as well as all the transitions between them.

Thank you. With the transitions, I have figured out that it all boils down to if the blades are moving with each other or against each other. I will clarify this in a video soon. For now, here are a few other things I have been playing with. The first features my new Liberator saber and a variation on the blade barrier that uses the inverse obi/ani. The second and third are continued work with the new dual plums I am working on dealing with alternating and simultaneous versions in both directions. Enjoy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5itVTwt1r3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5itVTwt1r3M#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q9-Pk71X8c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q9-Pk71X8c#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgKBK8zmTk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgKBK8zmTk#)

Darth Cephalus and Darth CH3M15T ... that was beyond awesome!  Thanks for the ultra spinning marathon.  Applauding loudly.  Had to stop to go lay down and have a nap.  You both make outstanding Siths.   :-\

Well I think that justifies a curtain call. Here is a practice session from yesterday to break in new Liberator hilt. This contains a few newer tricks I have been working on towards the end. The first part makes a lot of use of a reverse behind the back pass I am trying to get down. Around the four and a half minute mark I start some more diversified freestyle.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOqbs-u8m4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOqbs-u8m4#)

DC.  Thunderous applause, standing O and several air fists pumps!  Can a female member say... really smooth awesome dude and you seriously rock!  Your choice of music is spot on.  Did you invent some of those moves and if not you certainly own them.  Thanks for the adrenaline rush and cheer's to another future show.  Got my ticket in advance.   ;D

Thanks again. To answer your question, I would not say I invented the moves but I would say I discovered/adapted most of them. The basic moves and combos I picked up from the tutorials by Banditcar posted at the top of this thread. I added to those and found some new ones before I discovered that part of what I had discovered had already been covered by Venturous in his tutorials (also at the top of this thread). I picked up the rest from venturous and modified some of the spins from the TPLA soresu section before CH3M15T stumbled on me and we started to work on some dual wield stuff. Even the inverted Obi/ain, which I had thought was solely my creation, came up recently in a old Ray Park video I happened on a couple days ago as he was doing basically the same thing with a staff. Until CH3M15T picks it up though, I am the only one I know of who can do it dual wield. The thing about originality in general is that there are only so many truly different things out there. Originality comes in application of base elements rather than in their creation. I pride myself that I came to much of this on my own, as did many others, and hope that my videos can advance the learning curves of those who follow. I also believe that I am one of very few indeed who are trying to take these out of the realm of combat or staged combat and into the realm of non-martial performance. This thread is my effort to get others to join me in this, and I have been gratified by the support and success it has enjoyed. Thank you all and keep posting.

 Hey Cephalus! Quick opinion for me. I use a Dark Monarch hilt. I went through Venturous's one handed and then through yours. Now I'm going through Using the Force. My main grip for techniques sits in between the bulb and the first ring. Great for most techniques. But, the body surface changes elevation so much around this area that I cannot for the life of me figure out finger rolls. I can get one finger "rolled" before it gets too messy. Any suggestions?

(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p481/dsprouls704/2014-05-31-042219_zps0ce6747c.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/dsprouls704/media/2014-05-31-042219_zps0ce6747c.jpg.html)

With that hilt, it is going to be difficult. My best recommendation is to share what I have to do to finger roll my Manticore. Reach each finger farther so that at each point, your fingers are on exact opposite sides of the indent between the bulb and the emitter. If it were a straight stick, you would be covering some area as you roll. In this case, use the indent and a bit more reach to keep each finger contact on either side of the one spot on your hilt. Since a Monarch is such a thick hilt, you will need quite a bit of flexibility in your fingers and it will take some work to get the ring and pinky to the point where you can roll with them. Keep practicing over soft ground and try to get the momentum of the saber to do some of the work. Keep it as far back towards the base of your fingers as you can managed as if it slips towards your finger tips, you will likely lose it. Also start off with only rolling it over your index and middle before switching back into a grip. Get used to that and then try for the roll over the ring. At least that is how I would approach it. Hope it helps.

Hey thanks! Its a good place to start. I'll try but after your explanation, I think I'll have to closet it due to short fingers and small hands. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. Does the Monarch emitter detach? I didn't see that it says that it does in the description but the design looks like it might. If it does, you can order a choke from one of the other guys to slim it down for tricking. If not, there may just be limits to what you can do with that saber. I think finger roll might be the only one though as it should be weighted pretty well for everything else.

Sadly, no. It's one solid piece. Doesn't mean I've given up fully yet though. I'll drop it a few times and see if I can get it done. Thanks.

I thinks this is almost a horizontal blade barrier. needs a bit more horizontal-ness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdAZsBdVGEM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdAZsBdVGEM#)

Just a random un-edited (apart from sound) free form dual wield. Missed a few moves out like split flowers and alternating clocks. but ho hum. i really need to work on a routine to go through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7GD0u65gq0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7GD0u65gq0#)

Looking good. First I must say how glad I am you got that second saber. That old ultimate FX drew focus from your off hand. Second, I always appreciate the variety of your tempo. You tend to slow down when you his a revere obi/ani and the effect is a lag that always make me think youtube is not buffering right except that everything else moves normally. It is rather hypnotic.

Thanks Cephalus. I'm sort of trying to train myself up with my control with tempo. I used to just learn the move then practice to do it fast 100% of the time. Good for stamina maybe but you soon get pooped too quickly for a decent practice session if i'm going all out all the time.  So i'm wanting more speed control, practicing my patients and more consious decisions while spinning and slowing moves down is good for muscle memory. But also i'm starting to experiment more with the sudden explosive speeding up and winding down, switching tempo's and moves at the same time. Changing directions my main focus next so i'm not doing right handed flowers all the time. stopping and changing either one or both blades direction. Like obi to reverse obi for instance. i wouldn't even practice the whole move. just the parts i find easiest to have a directional change so i should be able to instinctively start using this technique. and know when in the move i'm able to change efficiently.   Hopefully.
i think the only moves you do i'm unable to do (apart from some of those complex hand rolls i don't like) are your reverse alternating plumbs and those reverse obi aerials. I'll get on practicing with that soon.

You should try a revers obi blade barrier. It gives you another option for direction change in single wield and it is pretty quick to pick up. I picked it up for the video at the top of this page and you can see the hand passes behind the back both directions.

YES! at first i thought you meant when both hand passes are behind the back. and i think i've had that pretty much down in normal and reverse grip for a while. i think they're in video's but they could be too dark to make out the moves. You do an nice reverse obi blade barrier at about 1:38  that i didn't notice the first viewing.  I must give that a go. It that the move you're referring to?

Pretty much. That was the blade barrier version. It is one of the new things I am playing with. There is another later in the vid at about 2:03. It is a reverse obi to a hand switch with blade pointing down behind the back, out the other side to a standard obi to a hand switch with blade pointing up behind the back and repeat. In sum, it totals out to 5 beats behind the back and a beat in front on each side. These can be done in obi and in super-obi with the extra beats.

So I came to the conclusion that my Omen hilt was longer than my Archon. With a heavy pommel (the War Glaive) and a long emitter (the Archon with a staff coupler), I was able to get full hand rolls in. This video has them in upward and downward wield.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIjFBZlhrsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIjFBZlhrsY#)

Here is a simultaneous version of a plum flower built on the simultaneous clock face. Shown here in skeletal 5beat form and with 2 beats added. This is a move I will tackle in the in the next Jar'Kai tutorial. Thought I would give a preview and see if there was any feedback.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIbQNszfSqY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIbQNszfSqY#)

I thought this might be of benefit to repost. I was contacted by a viewer who was having difficulty with the clock face spin. He asked if I had ay suggestions. This was my response

"Think of the metaphor. Treat your saber arm as the minute hand of a clock, extend it, and rotate it in a big circle. When that is comfortable, work on the individual beats. Think of the saber as an hour hand at the end of the minute hand that is your arm (I know that clocks don't work like this but bear with me). You will have to pull in to the center a bit to perform the beats but keep as much of the extension as you can. the 3:00 beat is in front of your body. It is the same as the second beat in the figure 8. Next try the 9:00 beat. It is the same crossover from the figure 8 as the 3:00 but on the other side of the body. This time the blade will be going behind you. The 6:00 is the same as the 3:00 but on your body line and low. The saber will move in front o your body. If you are working with a longer saber, you will have to bring it up to about your belly button. The 12:00 beat is the same as the 9:00 but over your head. Again the saber will go behind your body. Next practice the 3 and 6, then practice the 9 and 12 together. When you put the whole thing into one move it will travel in that big circle I told you to start with and will consist of 2 beats in front of the body (3 and 6) followed by two beats behind (9 and 12) and then repeat. As with all of these, when you put it together, use your knowledge of the technique. Do it slow and do it right. Then speed it up as your muscles learn it. Eventually you won't need to think about it to do it because you will know how it feels."

I then posed a video to illustrate
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihYaFk0t_U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihYaFk0t_U#)

For any others struggling with this, I hope this helps.

I was exploring the possibility of horizontal cloud spins in dual wield. This was a first attempt. I am not sure yet if this works or if it just makes me look like a flailing orangutan.Might see if I can clean up the concept and try to determine if there is anything in there worth pursuing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjnjfyYg0IY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjnjfyYg0IY#)

Forget about validating your exploration in technique. We're past that. The more you explore, the more I learn. Keep pushing the limit. I mean that in the most respectful manner. Plus that move adds another dimension. Now try that cone up top inverted below. If you can do cones in opposite quadrants it might be something to see. Don't know if you'd have to wiggle out of the way a little though. Swinging around like an ape would result in you hitting the blades or yourself in the face. It takes coordination, practice, and muscle to do it gracefully. Well done.

This is a piece of a practice set of the flower/following version of the full plum flower spin. One arm must do the plum and the other must do the inverse plum a 1/2 beat behind. I had to remove the upwards crossover and replace it with the over the head transitional beat. That transition still needs a bit of work.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5GzIIjp9OQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5GzIIjp9OQ#)

Here are my dual wield moves in reverse grip. stars off with a few obi ani's in normal and then reverse. To reverse obi ani in reverse grip. Both simultaneous and alternating. Not sure if they have been covered yet. Enjoy.
_LORD CH3M15T_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLiYDYRZfs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLiYDYRZfs#)


and ls duel and sparring,  with added nutshot....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwlWYXp-1Lc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwlWYXp-1Lc#)

The reverse grip stuff is looking nice: particularly the reverse grip simultaneous inverse. The duel piece cracked me up. Your friend is very obviously trying to hit the saber more than he is trying to hit you whereas you were actually trying to hit him. An outcome like that was inevitable. In other news, I notice Venturous is posting new vids on his youtube channel. Worth watching. Check the beginning of this thread for a link to the channel.

Ok Heres a couple of vids i've recently done. In the first i'm experimenting with the reverse grip, reverse plum. and forward grip with my off hand sort of following and tweaking out different spins to see whats doable.
The 2nd some nice night time spinning. enjoy

! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Cf2ZGE5Hs#)

! Private video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqFazA4VaPc#)

Around the four minute mark on the second video, the move you are doing is a really nice following plum flower. Bravo for that. I also found it interesting when you gave us the side view of what I term the super obi/ani spin. I have never seen the side view for obvious reasons. finally, your fluidity in reverse grip is always impressive. Keep up the great videos.

Haven't looked through the whole conversation, sorry about that. But I was wondering if anybody has experimented with double staff?

I have tried dual staff but do not have videos of it because I do not have two staffs. I was using a staff and a stick. I do have a video with a staff and a long saber here

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAY3DzQbPdQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAY3DzQbPdQ#ws)
Venturous had a dual staff attempt here
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0CxLWo584&list=UUR1bX1OucgsmuuBmdcNU5kw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0CxLWo584#ws)

As you can see from his and my video, it is cumbersome but it can be done. Almost everything that can be done with double sabers can be done with double staffs. The thing about staff is that it is heavier so it builds up more momentum. It will therefore wear you out faster if you change that momentum and can get away from you. This momentum and the larger center of gravity are what make rolls easier with a staff. It also has more surface area and therefore more drag coefficient, so things like flips are harder to pull off. Combine that with the large center of gravity and you will see it flip in wide circles slowly. Finally, you need to watch out for the second blade. Moves like the obi/ani require you to run the pommel next to your body. You can't do that with a staff as the pommel has a blade coming out of it. You therefore have to make allowance for that and sometimes add in another beat or half beat.

If I ever get a second staff I would like to put more work into it. If for no reason than that it is good practice and makes the the single sabers feel very light by comparison. If you try it, please post videos, but please be careful as the risk for personal injury is going to increase.

I'm not currently in possession of a staff sadly. I however did recently start fire staff and have a collection of them to practice with. I managed to get some basics with double staff down today, but the staffs I was using were much shorter than a saber staff. I just wanted to see if it was doable with the added length or if I was struggling purely because I'm a beginner.

Thanks for the videos. :) As soon as I have funds for my initiate staffs I'll get some videos up. I may also be able to get some fire staff videos done if anybody is interested. Maybe a collection of videos documenting my progress. :)

Feel free. Fire staff videos would be interesting and the moves should be transferable for the most part and it might show off some contact moves that no one is doing with a saber right now to my knowledge. I have tried several times to pull off a fish tail with a saberstaff but the different weight and texture has proved insurmountable. The weight on a fire staff is at the ends while the weight on a saberstaff is in the middle. I still think it can be done though.

I had never thought of it in terms of where the weight is, I had just assumed that if it was balanced it would work essentially the same way. The saber staffs/staff are more of a backup for if I go to do a show and for whatever reason I can't perform with fire. Lightsabers are a much cooler alternative to your average glow staff. With regards to spinning in general, I'm still very much a novice and a lot of contact moves are a way off for me right now. I've just learnt neck wraps (which are really simple and I'd love to see them done with a saber) and I'm currently working on the angel roll. I figure once I've got it down though I can work on some more 'serious' contact moves. :)

The only video I have ever seen with someone doing neck wraps with a lightsaber is at the front of this thread but I will re-post it here.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLD5UIrUJL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLD5UIrUJL4#ws)
Look around 10 seconds in. I tried to get him to post more of this kind of thing back at the beginning of the year and he posted this as an addendum, but we have not seen any of it since.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrNkGlOZ_ac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrNkGlOZ_ac#ws)
I have tried it and can get it passably well, but I don't practice enough with staff to have been able to get mine to look fluid yet.

That's really cool. I can't wait to buy my first staff and try this out. Until I have the funds though, I'll just stick with fire. :) Point for all the videos.

Another vid from last week i only just got around to putting together. I'm doing the alternating plumb with the directional change forward. and then trying it in reverse grip. A few other moves where i'm just messing about. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4vlSvWgzY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4vlSvWgzY#)

And with that, I think is is fair to say that you are officially the reverse grip guy. Looks good. You know, at some point it might be cool if you could put together a montage of all of these moves in reverse grip so we can see them all laid out next to each other. I actually just put together a walkthrough video for that forward dual obi/ani, it should be up later today. I'll link it here when I get it edited and uploaded.

Yeah. I try and practice as equally as possible for forward and reverse. Learning the moves in reverse does take more time and effort. They're physically harder to do and can feel very weird and  cack handed with reduced control and accuracy at times. But saying that. I like a challenge. So i'll get working on a dual wield reverse grip showcase. I'll try and link / chain all the moves together so i can show off more and edit the footage less. Theres still a few reverse grip moves i'm struggling to grasp. one is the alternating reverse plumb flower, but i'm still yet to master it in forward grip.  Thats some difficult stuff.

that one is a bit rough; rougher with full sized sabers. I have a video for it planned but it is a ways out. I still need to cover the upward dual figure eights, the upwards double obi/ani, and the upwards double super obi/ani first. Makes me wonder though, were you able to get the upwards super? If you can get that one, the jump is not far. The only thing is make sure to reach past your other arm and saber on the crossover. In the meantime, here is that link I promised, I posted the forwards dual plum tutorial here as part 15 of the series.

http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=21141.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=21141.0)

What up Darths! Having trouble on simultaneous clockface transition overhead at the 12 o'clock beat. It looks like a poi transition I've seen, but I have no idea where to put the sabers at 12. I usually end up stalling there and just going into downward simultaneous figure eights. But I know that's not right. Do they go behind the head in same direction?

And done! I think I may have missed out a simple reel or two, but its all there for the most part. I even got in a few aerial juggles i hadn't done before.
Anyways i hope you enjoy and find it useful. I think the first part of the footage auto focus is off so i might re-shoot it again if time permits me. I was also considering adding annotations to the video to label each move as i go through them, but i'll probably do that later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJ_V3-gh8E# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJ_V3-gh8E#)

The following answer assumes that you are doing a downward spin while your body is facing right and an upward when your body is facing left. This will mean that your sabers are basically moving clockwise. So after the 9:00 beat, your right hand will be in front of your body, your left will be behind your body, and both of your blades will be pointed up. As you turn your body, you lift the sabers so that both of them have their blades pointed down at the midway point in your turn. Basically if you stopped at that point, you would be facing forward with your hands above your shoulders and both blades pointing downward behind your back. As you complete the turn to your right, you will bring your hands back down so that your right hand is behind you, your left is in front of you, and your blades are pointing up. After that, you hit the 3:00 beat. It may feel like a stall but the blades make a rotation, accomplished partly by the movement of your body from left to right.

For examples, I cover it in part 2 of the Jar'Kai series. I also show it rather slow at the beginning of this video from last March.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OotzWRntgOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OotzWRntgOM#ws)
CH3M15T had one on it called poi transitions, but I can't seem to find it on his channel. @CH3M15T, did you take that one down? Also on the video, I have not gotten a chance to watch it yet but I like the idea of caption labels a lot.

Watched it. You have another one up on me now CH3M15T (the first being the under leg flip which I just cannot do). I have not gotten the reverse grip dual inverse obi/ani down yet. Looks good. I like how all of this reverse grip stuff you are doing keeps the blades so close to your center line. It looks very compact/complex in the nighttime videos.

Ok sweet! got it, thanks! A lot of the stuff I pick up from you guys doesn't seem right when I do it, but then I find out I'm doing it like 85% right. My problem was not going back far enough to make a smooth transitions. My arms were stalling at my sideburns. Right on! Maybe I'll make a pathetic attempt at a video to show you where I'm at.

Some single blade spinning action for you. I know, it's not like me only using one. But thought i'd try out some different moves and ideas. Watch how i effortlessly switch from forward to reverse grip while keeping momentum.  ;D         This is where my reverse grip training comes in useful and i feel like its the way i'm heading. I need to start thinking of ways, not only to switch the sabers over while dual wielding but also switching grip aswell.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oOws6Ye2as# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oOws6Ye2as#)

Nicely done

Dark side point well earned CH3M15T. I particularly like that back hand bounce switch. I have something similar yet not as aerial. I have been wanting to post a single blade vid for a while but what I want to do with it will require a wider shot than I can get in my store or with my ipad.

Here is my contribution for Halloween spinning 2014 with dual pumpkin orange blades to Iron Maiden. The Iron Maiden was added in post. I tried out a few new moves in here and worked on hand switches and transitions.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzbC9RnXUDk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzbC9RnXUDk#)

CH3M15T, just wondering, but have you ever tried a dual wield finger roll? I gave it a couple attempts but my left hand was not having it. I can get a single inversion but can't go full around. It would be pretty brilliant if you one could pull it off though.

I think i can on the virtical axis but only for 1/2 maybe 1 rotation. But it just looks like a slow spin and think it might be easier just to spin them. on the horizontal its impossible as the blades would clash.   :o UNLESS ......... i need to try some ideas out tomorrow as its 1am now. I'll give both plains a go weather permitting.

Horizontal finger rolls are indeed possible with both sabers, however you would need more momentum to do full finger rolls in the horizontal plain. Vertical finger rolls are easier because you have gravity working for you through each finger, whereas with a horizontal finger roll, the gravity is wanting the saber to just fall out of your hand. You have to compensate for this with added momentum to keep it going. As for the blades, all you have to do is ensure that one blade passes over the other, which will keep them from clashing.

@DARTH CH3M15T - Have a well-earned dark side point, those spins are impressive!

(is it bad that whilst watching the videos, I also figured you were UK based purely from the houses behind you? :P  )

Thank you and it's not bad its good observational skill. Is it that obvious? Probably... i might have been from the republic of ireland.... which i'm not. so well done, I am in Cheshire England. 


Anyways. Here are the dual finger rolls. Vertical and Horizontal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iplcn7i0hEg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iplcn7i0hEg#)


Might have some more videos up later tonight if i can be bothered to cut them together.

Thanks for the vid. I will have to work on my left hand. The slight angle on the horizontal roll was useful to see. I think part of the issue is that it bounces off my ring. My end goal would be to be able to do continuous rolls in an alternating pattern.

Some more dual wielding. I enjoyed one behind the back move which i think i unintentionally did, i slowed some of the footage down.
Then i just started mucking about. here's the result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDMpaOjVAbw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDMpaOjVAbw#)



working on a couple more vids very soon. One is going to be a visual comparison of spinning two long blades vs two short blades.
And the other i was gonna don my Rorschach costume (for halloween) and do some spinning in that. But it seems a bit late for that now, but i still might do it anyway for a laugh.
May the force serve you.

Your inverse obi ani on your left has slimmed down nicely. It was not that long ago that is was mostly arm movement, now it is looking more like an inversion of what the other arm is doing. I also noticed you worked in a palm inversion. I was going to suggest that wen you said you were looking for ways to flip grip. Your single saber raises an interesting point though. That 1.5 flip you are doing is the same thing I do with a hand switch. For the record, you can roll it past the bottom of your hand, kind of shoving it up with the back of the hand, to reduce the hang time if you want. By keeping it in one hand, you open up the possibility of a dual wield if you can do it with your left. The issue would be timing so that your other hand has something to do while you wait for the one in the air to come back down. I can only imagine the creative ways we could both injure ourselves trying to work out such a move. Needless to say, point awarded.

I'm from quite further south but still in the UK, which explains why the architecture is familiar :P

Those finger rolls are impressive, I'll be watching them back a few times over when I get home from work to try and figure them out - everything just looks so complicated at the moment!

Two videos demonstrating what I was just talking about in my last post. The first video shows a 1.5 flip designed to switch the grip of the saber from standard to inverse and back. The first flip is shown high as in other videos in past. Subsequent flips are shown in the more compact version requiring a partial hand roll to eliminate the excess elevation. Right and left hands are demonstrated as well as a downward variant of the move. The second is a practice video on the early stages of a 1.5 dual wield flip spin. I start with the dual inverse obi/ani, move into a dual flip obi/ani than demonstrate a 1.5 flip with each hand. The next step is to get the timing right to fit them together. Sorry for the canned music but these were kind of spur of the moment.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTdBr6WgrGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTdBr6WgrGQ#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SGFSX6xSfg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SGFSX6xSfg#)

nice one Cephalus, I still struggle to do the reverse obi ani flip with my left hand. i need to pactice more of the aerials with this hand. 1 point to you sir.
i might have my next vid up later today also.

and
@ Kyyanno
practice practice practice. It seems difficult at first until you do it so many times instinct and muscle memory takes over. It take alot of focus and effort. What lightsabers are you using? you should post a video of your ability so you can see your development of skill over time, and check videos to see where and what need improving on.  that was the main reason for my making my ls vids. So i could check what areas i wanted to focus on building up next. and sometimes you just freestyle something crazy, and you're like, " how did i do that?! ".

I've got a Guardian and a Dark Initiate, the DI being purchased for exactly this sort of thing, practice practice practice - also it's small enough to swing in my tiny garden (gotta hate modern terraced houses!). At the moment, I can only just about manage a basic obi-ani with my right hand, and I'm an expert at hitting the back of my leg with my left XD  I'm not up for trying it with the Guardian yet, as that's such a big hilt compared to the Initiate.

Yea, the Initiate is a much better hilt for spinning. The knobbie pommel on the Guardian could do some damage if you miss a connection. If you are doing single saber work, you might want to switch the longer blade from the guardian into the Initiate hilt though. I found the obi/ani especially was a lot more tricky to get down without the momentum a longer blade affords.

Luckily I've now got three different blade lengths to try with it - the 24" that came with the initiate, the 36" midgrade that came with the Guardian, and a slightly shorter 32" that I ordered for the Guardian at the same time as the Initiate. The shorter blade means that I can actually swing the initiate indoors, though I did try the obi-ani briefly with the Guardian & 32" and actually found it slightly easier (I just had to mind the ceiling XD  )

This is about one day into trying to figure out this move. Instead of getting a full 1.5 rotation from the blades to switch the grip, I am getting one rotation and providing the other .5 by rotating my palm to catch the hilt with my palm facing outwards. The few times, I stick to the 1 rotation with the left hand while completing the 1.5 with the right and then I move to the full 1.5 rotation with both hands. The timing is still a work in progress but much advanced since yesterday.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ryhBmoZP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ryhBmoZP4#)

I need to train my left hand more Cephalus.   >:(  mwaaaaarg have another point me old chum.
right.... This


a spinning comparison of blade lengths, my longest blades and shortest.
Oh and check out the music change from about 0:20 in. lols.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KvOOESg8pk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KvOOESg8pk#)

Interesting to see. This has me thinking of doing a comparison between blade grades. My typical blades for dual wield are 24" HG blades, but I also have 36" MG and HG. They all spin very differently. Might be interesting to see them side by side. Point for the idea and for the wacky music.

yeah the wacky music sort of reminded me of a french version of the mos eisley cantina song. stumbled accoss it in the youtube editor and the tracks i could choose from. need to get myself some editing software.
I would hate to feel how heavy the high grade blades are. my longest is "40? whatever the longest blade is... and  the shortest "24.  can't remember the length of my other two because i trimmed a few inches off them to suit me. probably around "32

So yeah... I put that together. This video shows three different dual wield moves performed with three different types of blades. The first move is a dual obi/ani, the second is rotating flowers, and the third is a dual inverse obi/ani. The blades are respectively heavy grade 24" initiate blades, mid-grade 36" standard blades, and heavy grade 36" standard blades. My dual inverse with the initiate blades is a bit flawed as I did it last and the heavy grade full length blades took a toll on my wrist. The result is that the MG blades are just a bit slower than the short blades but do take more effort. The HG full blades are ridiculous and best left to one weapon spinning. Hope this helps.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqEi5wDd6OU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqEi5wDd6OU#)

So heres a couple new vids. First one i'm just practicing some spins and a couple of juggling tricks.
The second i'm demonstrating a few isolations moves. basic spin, obi-ani, figure 8 and couple of others in the isolation mode. Slow but weird looking. Difficult to get the speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQypbwbjuzM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQypbwbjuzM#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuup8cENuJQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuup8cENuJQ#)

That under leg pass into flowers is a slick transition. Nice job. The blade on blade roll is looking good too. I recall the first few times you posted that move and it looked impractical. Now it looks a lot more elegant and your catch tells me that a lot of work went into it. The isolations are awesome as well. I especially like the reversal. Makes me want to see an isolated plum flower that goes through and then backs up. I imagine you would have to move your body past the blade to pull it off.

indeed. you would have to move yourself around the blade quite a lot to pull off the plumb or reverse plub flower isolations. The reverse obi feels really easy and natural to do. But gaining any serious momentum takes alot of effort.

I was thinking me you and venturous should all put some freeform or some of our signiture moves, all into one video. One of us could edit the three of us doing some serious tricks and spinning displays. Just a thought.

That would be interesting. I don't think Venturous has any flow material in his videos yet, so that would be nice to see (especially since staff seems to be his weapon of choice). Lucian would also be a good candidate as his free-form is some good stuff. As an alternate idea, what if we picked a single song and opened it to the community. Practice, spin, dance or do whatever with a saber to the same song, upload the videos, and I could splice them together as a montage. If people have a signature move they would like to be included, they provide a time and I will see what I can do barring conflicting requests. The editing would be easy as the song would serve to sync the lot. Realistically, not a lot of people will submit a routine but it might draw out some interesting talent. Of course it could just be you and me in a video if no one else takes the bait. If that happens, I will use single saber so that we get some variety in there and it isn't just a Jar'kai thing. We would have to settle on a song and run it up the flagpole.

Well my suggestion for a track to spin to would be something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf1j85VaZyw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf1j85VaZyw#)
4:30 doesn't seem to much to play with.

don't mind if you want to go with any other song choices . I think we should probably set up a different thread for people to sign up to and open it up to new peeps. And i would like to nominate you Cephalus to set it up as you've probably got a better grip of the english language than i have. I tend to waffle on and go off on tangents and you seem to be more concise in my opinion.  That and i'm just lazy :-P

Sounds like a plan. I think we may need to talk about music a bit more though. Your selection works well for dual wield but it is almost all rhythm. We need something with a melody on top of the rhythm for anyone who wants to do single saber or staff. A staff routine to that song would be asking for injury. Electronic works but we need variety in the tempo so it is not full throttle all the time. If we are going to do this, I would say give it time for people to work up content. Submissions through mid December, editing, and a release on New Years. I think posting a call for videos in the video section might be best. I would like to settle on a song first. How does this one sound to you? If we go with it, I would try to ask permission from the poster.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1U-YeGnRM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1U-YeGnRM#ws)

I'm thinking something else based on Duel of the Fates might work out well but am open to other suggestions. Any other ideas from anyone?

I'd totally be up for that. I do still have lots of footage with all three styles that you could feel free to pull from, both with lit sabers and non-lit sabers. If this ends up taking off, just let me know and I can send some files your way.

That track is awesome, i haven't heard that remix before. That'll do me. 4mins means its easier to edit with it being slightly shorter. But if it doesn't take off, it would be the three of us filling 1:20 each. I'm sure we'll have other people interested too. I'll leave it to you Cephalus to set up the thread at your discretion, as you're the appointed editor and that, everyone should know who to report to etc. I'm already trying to work out which moves i want to focus on. One of them has to be the alternating plum-flowers that change direction, in reverse grip. I could focus on just jar'kai reverse grip so other dual wielders can do the normal grip moves they like and make it  more varied.

If you want footage with lit sabers, I'll have to use some of my older footage because I don't have working batteries to film new stuff. If it doesn't matter, then I can try and get some new staff footage for you. Let me know.

I went ahead and asked the person who posted the music for permission and will create the thread over in the videos section with more details when I hear back. Assuming everything goes to plan and they have no objections, they have a direct download link and I provided it below in case people want to get a jump on planning their submission. For your perusal or if you have suggestions, the request for footage as I plan to post it is as follows:



"Hello Sabering community. For those I have not met, I am Darth Cephalus and I spin stuff. A few of us spinners have carved out a little niche over in the non-martial arts thread and we have been kicking around an idea that it might be time to present to the sabering community at large.

Simply put, most of us here tend to do our own things. We do choreographed fights, martial arts demos, spinning routines, costume work, etc. What if there was a way to get several of those things into one project that would showcase a wider picture of what we, as a community, do with lightsabers?  

What I am proposing is that anyone willing to volunteer, post a video (roughly 4 minutes long) in which they show us their saber work. You can choreograph a fight, you can give us spinning, you can film some freeform work, you can do it with lit or unlit blades, in costume or in plain clothes, outside, inside, or on green screen. I will edit this footage together (unless someone with more editing experience wants to take it over) into a single video.

The criteria:

1. For editing and theme purposes, the video should be designed to accompany this music (a download link for the mp3 is provided below the video so that you can load it onto a player). Please have the music playing so that I can hear it in the background for timing. If you record it without the music or while the music was playing through headphones, please attach the music track to it before you post.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1U-YeGnRM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1U-YeGnRM#ws)

2. Your video must include a lightsaber and be something recognizable as "a performance".

3. Your content should not violate youtube or forum rules.

The details:

If you are interested, please post and say so. When you have a video, please post it here. I can rip things from youtube without a problem for editing. Please include the name or moniker you would like to appear in the credits. If you have a signature move, pose, or other brief trademark, please post it as a separate video or still image as you would like it to appear in the credits. If none is submitted, I will use a short clip from your routine. If you have a youtube channel or web link, post it and I will include it in the description. Please try to submit material as soon as you are able. I would like to start editing in mid December with a video release on Youtube around the first of the year.

Additional notes and disclaimers:

First off, this will happen. If it is just the three of us from the non-martial arts thread, so be it. It will not be like one of those fan fic pieces that gets planned and then abandoned. Second, don't expect a high budget production; expect a no budget production. My skills are minimal but should be enough to get the job done and I am working with basic editing software. If you have seen my other videos like the Jar'Kai Teaser, that is about the level of editing I am willing to commit. This is not a professional video and my channel is not monetized so there is no profit being made. This is by and for those who are willing to donate time and energy to make it happen. Third, If I am doing the editing, I will have to decide what makes it in and what does not. We are only working with 4 minutes. I will try to include everyone and if too many people are interested to do that, I will try to make a second cut. If you have a favorite segment, feel free to let me know the time range and I will do what I can, but no promises. "

Sounds good to me

In the meantime, inspired by CH3M15T, here I am playing around with an isolated version of the plum flower spin and a body orbit. Ideally the center of the blade should stay in close to the same place. Still have work to do on this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=08oTf9BZpDU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08oTf9BZpDU#)

I am still waiting to hear back on the music, but I should be posting that call for videos within the next few days. In the meantime, I stumbled across something on the web called a Buugeng. The moves all look very compatible with saber though I have to say that the emphasis on finger rolls in a couple of the moves would make it rough on a single bladed saber. Might be interesting to try with dual short staff. Also makes me wonder if I could rig up an s curved blade that would fit in an ultrasaber as that s creates a whole new effect I don't think you could replicate at all with straight blades.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQbrSi4V5RQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQbrSi4V5RQ#)

Posted the call for videos over here
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=22222.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=22222.0)

Lets see if we can get this started.

That buugeng looks wierd. it seems like its the string of led configuration thats in the hasbro fx sabers. I'd love to have a small straight double bladed staff or two. but i'd want extremely small hilt with small blades on it. the spins i could do would look epic and seem twice as fast.

I dropped a few hints and managed to mind trick someone into buying me a buugeng for Christmas this year. My powers of suggestion were not enough to net me an LED model but I will mess around a bit more with the wood one I did get and post some videos. So far, double small staff has exactly the complications you would expect. The over the shoulder will take some work to get down. The other thing about the s curve is that you have to keep a loose grip because the staff has to be able to rotate 180 degrees in your hand to not break momentum since the curve makes it unidirectional. I can also say that finger rolls become a much more interesting thing to do.

It has been a while so I thought I should post something. The new baby is taking a majority of the time, but I was able to film this. it is a practice freestyle moving with dual sabers while spinning. Features somewhat repetitive saberwork with footwork and body spins. Also includes an opposing dual super obi/ani spin that is a work in progress. Set to Law by David Bowie.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJEY7KV6X08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJEY7KV6X08#ws)

Man winter is taxing. Practice has slowed down immensely, and its hard to stay on it. I'm not one for the cold, and my leather jacket is just too thick to get behind me well. The apartment is small. After learning all this stuff from you guys it feels like a stalling.... can't wait to get out this spring. But I am still here ...lurking .....watching .....learning. Thanks again.

No problem. Winter has slowed me down as well. I keep thinking I will make it out to do one of those last three tutorials, but it has not happened yet. 

Trying out a new toy. Buugeng (dual s-staffs) spinning to Forest by System of a Down. Next step is to set these up with some EL tape. There is definitely a learning curve to these (see what I did there?) as they are verry differently balanced. The uni-directionality of them also takes some getting used to. I can't help but think that, if I can get good at them, there might be some interesting lightsaber moves that can be adapted.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi_VHHrSuj0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi_VHHrSuj0#ws)

Another forum member here posted a video of this guy
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_YZZR3B8SNyftdMFQlAfQg/feed (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_YZZR3B8SNyftdMFQlAfQg/feed)
His saber work is very good. I am particularly impressed with some of the dual wield footwork he uses and with his staff and single saber triple wield. Worth a look. I contacted him on youtube to see if he might drop by. I notice he seems to use v2 ultrasabers. It would be nice to have him for the light side of this year's end of year saber montage.

Hi Darth C.  Haven't visited this section of the forum in awhile.  Still have to view last year's spinning comp. video.  Firstly, big congrats upon your new babe and best wishes for a stellar 2015.  Those Buugeng are really odd and I'm not sure what to think about them yet.  You should be defining some nice triceps with that workout.  That young man (Master Shade Nion) has some entertaining videos and talent.  Looks like he has 3 Aeon v2.  I would never part with the ones that I have.  :)

Thanks Dauntless. Your post made me realize I never posted a link to the montage on this thread. Consider that now remedied.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_fabiOtA6Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_fabiOtA6Y#ws)
I am looking forward to next year. The plan as such is to see if I can get enough volunteers come October/November to have enough footage for two videos: one light and one dark. As to the Buugeng. Yes they are odd. Looking at videos of people much better than me, I can see that if I want to get good at them, I need to be a lot more proficient with finger rolls. If I can do that, there should be some nice advanced blade inversion tricks that I should be able to learn to do with the sabers. They should also help with my goal to eventually learn to spin two staffs fluidly. Once my son is a bit more alert, I will have to see about getting a picture of him in the gallery with a saber.  Since he can't manage an ultrasaber yet, I will have to find something a bit smaller.  :)

awesome videos guys.. I have a lot to learn and practice in a short time, but i should be able to replicate some of what I seen for my film project for school in march...I really like the NY jedi class.. I'll see what I can do.

This is a variation of a hand switch I had used in past. It maintains a greater degree of contact to get an extra rotation. In the first slow duo, you can see what I am doing is using one hand to roll the saber around the other and into grab position.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVJECXz7k8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVJECXz7k8#)

and an alternate look at the move from the last video using a long hilt contact saber.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mi0S2XFb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mi0S2XFb4#)

Heres a dual wielding trick for you to try at home. Be careful :-S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tm_8pi7sr0

I'm setting aside time to try it tomorrow. I can see from the video that this move will not work in my indoor practice space.

So shelves be damned, I couldn't wait. First off, challenge accepted. I chose to end it in flowers rather than a stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3hGMP8uB_Y
Next challenge returned. You will notice I am using nerf swords as I want to spare the sabers. Can you beat me to pulling it off smoothly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-RJQFJqi_E
Lastly, a new spin I am working on. I call it a halo spin for what the blade does as it goes around the head. It is still a work in progress, but there you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ2x6nBydJc

Trying to perfect this move. Its a good way of traveling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB-PwGDpzf4

No!  :-[
They only one time i've caught it, it wasn't on camera. I find this to be quite difficult which ever sized saber i'm using. Think its something for me to come back too later. Or i'll end up breaking something before i get the move down.