A lightsaber club sued by LA?

[Corwyn VonBeck]

If nothing else good comes of this, at least the fine line that separates "Allowable" from "infringing" will be more clearly delineated.
Assuming of course Lucasfilm dont decide to move said line in light of these events....

[scifidude79]

I can't comment on the effect this is going to have on Ultrasabers, because I don't see the "behind the scenes" stuff they do to keep everything in order.  I'm sure they're smart enough to anticipate whether they will have to make any changes, and do what's necessary to continue production.  I'm not too worried about it!

Indeed.  I'm sure Emory and his people know exactly what they're doing and where they stand legally.  After all, UltraSabers has been in business for over a decade.

[Obese Wan Kenobese]

My concern is that Disney (the new owner) will want every dollar they can get on their investment. They may be wanting to sue, acquire or replace every saber company that they can. The guy who owns this training group may end up working for Disney, if they offer him such a settlement that they own it, and he operates it. Someone in a suit made this decision. Not a fan. Not a reasonable owner like Lucas or his people. A suit that saw dollar signs filed some paperwork.

[scifidude79]

There's only so much even Disney can do.  They can take the guy to court over the use of the name and the logo and they will likely win.  The logo is an almost dead on copy.  Apple has won suits with less resemblance.  The court fees and penalties will probably force the guy to shut down.  Beyond that, it's hard to say what may happen.

Moral of the story: don't ignore C&D orders from major corporations.

[Master Nero Attoru]

There's only so much even Disney can do.  They can take the guy to court over the use of the name and the logo and they will likely win.  The logo is an almost dead on copy.  Apple has won suits with less resemblance.  The court fees and penalties will probably force the guy to shut down.  Beyond that, it's hard to say what may happen.

Moral of the story: don't ignore C&D orders from major corporations.

I mean, they can do pretty much whatever they want, it just becomes a question of whether or not it's worth their time.  In most cases, they don't bother... because it really isn't.  Court costs and diverting resources to address these issues can get costly!  It's this case and a couple others, where there's potential for more trouble, that they step in (thus far).  Saber companies are pretty savvy about sidestepping such touchy areas.

[Majobu5]

I mean, they can do pretty much whatever they want, it just becomes a question of whether or not it's worth their time.  In most cases, they don't bother... because it really isn't.  Court costs and diverting resources to address these issues can get costly!  It's this case and a couple others, where there's potential for more trouble, that they step in (thus far).  Saber companies are pretty savvy about sidestepping such touchy areas.

Absolutely right. My next topic was going to be the court costs. Too pricy, and really; they aren't gonna drag every company through the mud. It's a novelty item, the supporters behind them would be outraged, and the companies have done a good job of making their products similar to, but not saying "Luke's saber" "Vader's saber". More like fancy sparring weapons, with lights

[Landen Se-Sentien]

And court costs, fines, judgements, etc. aren't always recovered. A company can be ordered to pay $10 million, but if it doesn't have that and closes up shop, then whoever successfully sued them can't recover that entire judgement, which is why it's an issue of whether or not it's worth it the time and money.

[Majobu5]

I'm just waiting for one of these contractors to make fun of my weight. I'm not gonna go down quietly. This particular company sues everyone for feeble things. There's so much dirt on them, and the superintendent made a comment a few weeks ago that the ladder was gonna need to be reinforced soon. Huge company, trying to make everyone do things their way

[Obese Wan Kenobese]

I really think they are planning to take over and do something similar themselves. Disney will have an exclusive academy at Disney World or something for kids and adults. They'll finally start making 'dueling' sabers, but then Disney will get sued by people hurting themselves, and we'll have to hide our bootleg sabers in the underground dueling clubs. The mainstream folks don't know what I'm doing when they see my saber. There are issues that currently have not been addressed in the saber community of people who know they aren't buying from a conglomerate that can pay when we choose our own risks of injury. When less devoted people grab an official saber, they won't think about injury until they want Disney to pay.

[Master Medwyn]

I woder how busy the court rooms are nowadays... have you ever drunk Johnnie Worker Red Labial?

http://www.boredpanda.com/funny-brand-imitations-knock-offs-china/?page_numb=1

[Darth Nonymous]

Also, keep in mind, this is Lucasfilm, NOT Disney. While LFL is now owned by them this is a situation that goes well before Disney's involvement. LFL is the plaintiff in this case, not Disney.

[scifidude79]

I mean, they can do pretty much whatever they want, it just becomes a question of whether or not it's worth their time.  In most cases, they don't bother... because it really isn't.  Court costs and diverting resources to address these issues can get costly!  It's this case and a couple others, where there's potential for more trouble, that they step in (thus far).  Saber companies are pretty savvy about sidestepping such touchy areas.

True, of course.  They could start cracking down on anybody making anything even resembling a lightsaber, which toy companies have been doing unlicensed since the '70s.  Though, like many UltraSabers designs, they avoid direct copies to fit into that area of "yeah, it's lightsaber-ish, but it's not your lightsaber design."  And, should Lucas Film start going that far, they too would start losing cases.  And, as you say, that's money out of their pockets.

Anybody remember in the late '90s when Paramount tried issuing C&D orders to every website using the Star Trek logo?  That was a mess.  Fortunately, they almost immediately rescinded those orders, as they realized just how many there were and how huge the scope was.  So, they decided it fell under Fair Use.  However, it is within the rights of an IP owner to ban all unlicensed use of their IP.  It's just that most let (harmless) stuff go.  The problem, again, with this guy in NY is that he tried not only using stuff they didn't want him using in his official business name, but that he also tried trademarking it, despite Lucas Film/Disney already owning trademarks.  That's taking it to a whole different level and sure isn't Fair Use.

Also, keep in mind, this is Lucasfilm, NOT Disney. While LFL is now owned by them this is a situation that goes well before Disney's involvement. LFL is the plaintiff in this case, not Disney.

Indeed, an important distinction.  Just because a company is a parent company of another doesn't mean they have direct control over the actions of the child company.

[Landen Se-Sentien]

True, of course.  They could start cracking down on anybody making anything even resembling a lightsaber, which toy companies have been doing unlicensed since the '70s.  Though, like many UltraSabers designs, they avoid direct copies to fit into that area of "yeah, it's lightsaber-ish, but it's not your lightsaber design."  And, should Lucas Film start going that far, they too would start losing cases.  And, as you say, that's money out of their pockets.

Anybody remember in the late '90s when Paramount tried issuing C&D orders to every website using the Star Trek logo?  That was a mess.  Fortunately, they almost immediately rescinded those orders, as they realized just how many there were and how huge the scope was.  So, they decided it fell under Fair Use.  However, it is within the rights of an IP owner to ban all unlicensed use of their IP.  It's just that most let (harmless) stuff go.  The problem, again, with this guy in NY is that he tried not only using stuff they didn't want him using in his official business name, but that he also tried trademarking it, despite Lucas Film/Disney already owning trademarks.  That's taking it to a whole different level and sure isn't Fair Use.

Indeed, an important distinction.  Just because a company is a parent company of another doesn't mean they have direct control over the actions of the child company.

All good points, especially about the guy wanting to trademark his stuff. That could have been what triggered the suit, but I'd like to add one thing.

You can delegate authority, but you can't delegate responsibility. LA had the power and authority to do what it's doing, but Disney still holds all of the responsibility for anything that company does. This is why bosses get fired if something illegal happens, even if they have no knowledge or involvement.

If this does get out of hand and start to resemble the Star Trek fiasco you mentioned, Disney could end up with a big black eye at the end of this. And, since their stock has been on a bit of a roller coaster the last few years, and the SW franchise looking like a potential financial savior, they better keep a close eye on this and monitor how far it goes. If only to save face.

[Master Nero Attoru]

All good points, but I'd like to add one thing. Especially about the guy wanting to trademark his stuff. That could have been what triggered the suit.

You can delegate authority, but you can't delegate responsibility. LA had the power and authority to do what it's doing, but Disney still holds all of the responsibility for anything that company does. This is why bosses get fired if something illegal happens, even if they have no knowledge or involvement.

If this does get out of hand and start to resemble the Star Trek fiasco you mentioned, Disney could end up with a big black eye at the end of this. And, since their stock has been on a bit of a roller coaster the last few years, and the SW franchise looking like a potential financial savior, they better keep a close eye on this and monitor how far it goes. If only to save face.

From what I've read, the application for the trademark was indeed the final straw.  It was a response to several C&D letters issued for various uses of trademarked content.

So we've all learned, when LFL issues you a C&D, don't try to trademark their terms in response

[scifidude79]

So we've all learned, when LFL issues you a C&D, don't try to trademark their terms in response

Seems like common sense to me, but I guess you never know, right? 

Another important lesson: It's their playground, we're all just playing in it.