Saber Forum

hey do any of you know if you can make a black blade with your emerald driver? ::)  thanks!!

Black is the lack of color, it's not possible to create a blade with a black blade.
The only "black blades" that have been done are illusions of the camera.

Also make sure to achknowledge the rules:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=117.0

Don't worry, dude. I fancy myself one of the mad scientist of this group. I am working on a reliable method of producing a black blade. I'll post results when I'm done.

Right now it is apparent that the basis for this effect will be in the coloring of the plastic blade, not the light. I've seen the effect pulled off before in a way that works for any color LED, but his process was exceptionally tedious.

*rubs eyes* There isn't a way to make a black blade that looks decent in person. There are a couple tricks to make it look alright on camera, but there is absolutely zero ways to make it look like the ones from The Force Unleashed.

If you cannot contribute constructively or at the very least posetively to this thread, then please content yourself to twiddle your thumbs instead of feeling the need to type.

The only thing I can really think of is putting a mirror-like film on the interior of the blade so that the transparent plastic shines most of the light instead of the interior.  I have zero clue how that'd look in person though.

Blade film has to be transparent in order to diffuse light properly. If you put a mirrored film in the blade facing in, it would reflect the light all inside the tube, but not let much of it out. If you did a mirror film with the mirror facing out, you would still have an un-illuminated blade because the backside of the mirror film would not allow the light out, and you would have also done something akin to what Lucas wanted in A New Hope.

I know it's a touchy topic, but trust me, there is no way to make a lightsaber with a black blade like it is in The Force Unleashed. It's been almost seven years since the game has been released and everyone under the sun has been trying to make one with little to no success. Like I said before, there are some tricks to make it look decent for still photos, mainly involving electrical tape, but there is no physical way to make a blade that is black that looks good from any angle. Physics does not work that way.

Sarich is correct, there just isn't a way to make a true black blade like seen in TFU.

And I'm sure he's seen every attempt and every result.

Remember this one guy called Thomas Edison. He made this little thing called the light bulb. He tried over 2000 ways to make it, that failed.

The whole concept of the black saber blade is that the "black" is a result of a void, similar to a black hole. The only way it can be seen is due to the light gathering on the edge of the event horizon.

It is not impossible, it just hasn't been achieved. And no, it won't be perfect, but nothing about these blades is. But they still achieve a reasonably good effect.
BTW, I've seen video of someone who achieved the effect. In a dark room on camera, it was pretty convincing. Unless you're gonna tell me it was doctored.

To get a black blade you have to paint, color, or tape the blade or make your own acrylic black blade with the same effects. There is no way to produce it via LED  tech. 

LED's produce light, Black is not light, hence the reason why Black lights are actually purple. 

Getting the effect on camera is pretty easy to do, producing the effect in person is really the issue.
If you manage to figure out a way to do it more power to you, but I don't personally see how it could be done.

I mean, if you got an idea for it, go get em tiger, but it can help to show what your idea is and explain what your process is.

I will concede that, cameras can produce unforseen effects. I've mentioned before that nothing was done to my avatar, but my blade has a movie quality appearance. Sometimes you just get lucky.

I will admit, that the method I saw looked like an incredible pain in the butt. I am out to achieve repeatability and ease. Will it be a cake walk...doubtful. Will I succeed on the first try...unlikely. But I will still try. But you have to admit, even if the effect only achieves 75% of the desired look, 75% is better than 0%.

I look at this problem like the concept of a combat saber. Can a combat saber do everything that a "real" lightsaber can do? No. But we still love them for what they can do.

I don't want to tread on toes. I'm an engineer. There is no such thing as "can't", only "done trying."

"do, or do not, there is no try" - crazy swap hermit aka Yoda

but on a more serious note, go for it, i'm planning on making an attempt at it too.

I hope that you do manage to figure something out, Logos! I'd certainly be impressed and enthused to hear about it.

The only way I can think to make something like that happen is with a two-dimensional object.. A flat blade instead of a rounded one.

It would only look "right" from that one angle, though. And the other side of course. But to achieve it on a cylinder, no clue.

See here:  http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=8539.0

A TFU style black bladed saber is definitely possible to build.

(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a558/photonicbladesmith/LuminousOutlineBlade-3-800by500_zpsefb7134e.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/photonicbladesmith/media/LuminousOutlineBlade-3-800by500_zpsefb7134e.jpg.html)

If you want to construct a saber blade that provides the visual appearance of a dark central core with a luminous halo around it, visible simultaneously from all viewing angles, another hardware verified way (Turgon's cross polarized film method was the first) to build such a blade is by embedding an LED string and diffuser into a channel that goes along the sides and around the tip of the blade, with the LED string that traces the outline of the halo recessed deep enough in the channel that it cannot be seen unless it is directly face on to the viewer.


(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a558/photonicbladesmith/SaberBlade-5-700by500_zpsfd69efac.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/photonicbladesmith/media/SaberBlade-5-700by500_zpsfd69efac.jpg.html)


(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a558/photonicbladesmith/SaberBlade-2-700by500_zpsfd1d6352.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/photonicbladesmith/media/SaberBlade-2-700by500_zpsfd1d6352.jpg.html)


Spin this blade around its central axis with an electric motor, and persistence of vision combined with motion smearing creates the illusion of a bright luminous halo around a dark core.  The scattered light from the walls of the channel in which the LED string is embedded creates a simultaneous secondary less bright luminous outer halo.

The electric motor is powered up to spin the blade at just below the human vision flicker fusion threshold frequency in order to produce a live shimmering luminous halo effect. The LED string is driven at 6 amps through a slip ring and brush assembly.  The LEDs in the string are oriented sideways with their lenses facing out the channel towards the viewer.  The high drive current and the LED orientation combine to make the blade halo bright enough to provide a dramatic visual effect even in a sun lit room.

I built this two years ago and it never fails to get a "What the H*** is that!?" response when I activate the blade in front of people who haven't seen it before.  Had lots of fun with it at the local Comic-cons!

Considering that Turgon's polarized film black blade and this spinning LED string blade have demonstrated two distinctly different ways to build a simultaneously-viewable-from-all-angles TFU style black blade, it is likely that there are other approaches out there that will also work.  I'm looking forward to seeing what other experimenters on this forum come up with and build.  

Whoa! That's awesome! Please toss up a video of that in action, if you can!

I will happily acquiesce that that is super neat looking, I do have to ask about the limitations. Can you fight with it? How long before the batteries drain out? How much does it weigh? How much does it cost to create?

The owners of another company and I were talking about the Turgon polarizing film method, and while we all agreed that it produced the effect (albeit for a blade less than 26 inches and was hilariously expensive) the drawbacks outweighed it. The drawbacks being the short blade size, the fact that you really could only get about 2/3 of it lit up before losing your light, and that the film had to go on the outside of the blade, meaning no contact duelling.

has any one thought about on the emerald launcher if you go to the easy mode then you have the color palet click green and if you choose a dark enough shade of green it might appear black on the blade. can someone try that my emerald has not arrived yet but if it works I should get credit

The Emerald driver acts as a variable resistor to the 4 LEDs (or 2 depending on your config) that make up the cluster in the MLS. The colors produced are based on the amount of power being delivered to light the LEDs. A dark color is the result of very little light being produced. That is what makes the black blade so neat yet difficult to recreate. It is light and darkness at the same time.

So the only plausible way to create this effect is to cover or filter a portion of the light, at full power, coming through the blade.

There is an alternative though. Another vender sells carbon fiber blades. They are black. I doubt any light can get through the material, but you will definitely be able to duel with them.

Ah carbon fiber, the oldest of the school. It's only 1/2 inch OD, so for illuminating it that would not be an option, even then it's a non-opaque tube, so it doesn't illuminate. It's really only meant for people doing choreography and adding in their own effects in post, like in Ryan vs. Dorkman.

That looks very cool...... points...... +1  :)

But i'm guessing there is NO way you could duel with it..... sadly

To reduce the weight of the spinning components, the light baffle frames and LED mounts were make from thin Kevlar-epoxy castings (0.03" thick, 7 ounces total weight for the inner and out rectangular baffles).
These light baffle frame components are flexible enough that a hard impact would probably flex the blade sufficiently to break the LED chain solder joints.
Like many component blade sabers using LED strings, this spinning LED string black blade is suitable for display only and is definitely not to be used for contact sparring.


The raw materials cost to construct this spinning LED string black blade is low.
High brightness white LEDs to make the LED string can be bulk purchased from eBay for less than 3 cents each if you are willing to do the voltage vs. brightness test binning yourself.
The structural frame was constructed from castings made from single fabric layer Kevlar-epoxy.  Standard fiberglass will also work if unlike me, you are willing to deal with fiberglass sanding dust.
The motor that spun the blade was a standard hobby grade DC motor purchased from Jameco electronics.  The bearings that the blade spun on were standard off the shelf roller bearings.
The misc. mechanical components including the electrical slip rings were home machined from aluminum, copper and delrin rod and tube stock.
If you are an experienced builder and have access to a lathe and mill, this spinning black blade can be constructed from less than $100 in parts and raw materials.
On the other hand, if you have to contract out fabrication of the parts to outside shops for a one-off build, it can get very expensive.


The blade is powered by a set of rechargeable Lithium 18650 batteries.  The operating time with a fully charged set of batteries is about 20 minutes.
To deal with this short operating time per charge, the hilt was designed with the batteries being held in battery tubes that can be accessed without tools by removing the hilt's rear end cap.
Being able to swap out a set of drained batteries with fresh ones without the need for tools in less than a minute makes the limited operating time less of a practical issue.

Nice work.  That's pretty clever.

I could care less about any limitations - It looks amazing.  You don't need to spar with everything . . .

Ok I bite
If you can purchase black LEDs why can you not create a black blade?
I admit you would need to build your own custom saber (since at this time US does not sell black LEDs) but it can be done

As an example:
http://www.diamond-vision.com/images/uploads/documents/Product_Information0115.pdf

Those don't actually appear to be star based LEDs that are used in lightsabers, but instead are what are used for gigantic displays, like in Times Square or those ads you see on the highway. Now that would be something, a blade that was actually a display screen.

Even still, if you used one those it's not going to create a black lightsaber with a black core and white corona. Truthfully, Photonic is the only person I have seen to create the illusion of the black blade and white corona that people want.

I finally got to see this. Well done PB, point. I can't see an easier way to deliver that level of result. (BTW I have yet to come across anyone that can match your 100% approval rating {4pts : 4 posts}, it's impressive.)


As much as we usually disagree on this topic, I have to agree with you on the illumination aspect. I'm not familiar with the device you are describing, but I can imagine it produces light similar to a blank TV or computer monitor. There is enough light there to tell it's on, but not enough to actually illuminate anything.

Now if this kind of thing were enough to visually see a change in a blade (of some significance) I would say we'd be making progress on this notion. But the fact would remain that the white aura would not be generated.

Although now you've sent me into a theory zone, to postulate a different design concept that might....ahem, might be able to produce our desired effect through illumination. If my theory pans out however, you would really have to love it, cuz it would probably cost an arm and a leg to attain.

I'm wondering if a fully transparent polycaronate blade, with a Flat black core stuffed inside it might not approximate the desired result...

Or using the polarized method, a 3 layer blade
Flat black core, (if needed)
Polarized layer
Transparent outer polycarb protective outer blade.

This would make for a really heavy blade though.

Why couldn't you just use something like black construction paper. It's flat black and light weight. I hadn't though of something like that. My only concern is how much of the light comes directly through the ultrafilm. Let the experiments begin. ;D

Sorry no idea what a "star based" LED means? But ok I just google'd to find that one
Point being if black LEDs actually exist (where power makes them more black, not absence or power) then it seems you could build a black blade

I think the dual colour (white corona) seems far more difficult to make

The problem with that is that while it certainly appears blacker, it isn't actually creating "black light", because that is a thing that doesn't exist(well, technically it does, but those are purple.), which means it wouldn't illuminate a blade at all, and what little it would illuminate would most likely be white.

Although, Blacklight purple would make a pretty color for a blade.

It is neat looking, the problem though is that they are crazy dim when used as a single LED star.

They're crazy dim in any bulb state you make them.

But I never got a reply from my surmise that the black LEDs you spoke of produced a light similar to that of a blank TV or monitor.

If you have the patience, you could make a string blade out of a whole bunch of 5mm ones, that would be brighter.

That's alright. I'll just play around with my emerald saber. You still haven't answered me on what a black LED looks like.

Uh, I'm not the one that posted the link to that, that was someone else. From what he posted, it looks like it was a screen of LEDs, not an individual LED star LED. A single one of those is very, very small, nowhere near big enough or bright enough to illuminate a blade. It would be like using the blank screensaver on your computer and sticking a blade up to it, little to no illumination, which is a test you can easily do at home. It would not create a solid black beam up the blade tube, because that isn't how light works.

Right here.


I figured as much, but it was worth the asking.

The video of that thing is really cool.  It makes me think of like a lightsaber chainsaw.

Sign industry guy chiming in. Those definitely aren't LEDs that produce "black light" - they're RGB LED units that are black when off. Helps bump up contrast when displaying images during the day by not reflecting light over shadows of the image.

As for making a black blade, when it comes to color mixing, there's no such thing as "black light" Black isn't a color, but rather the lack of any colored light. It's why when you set Emerald software to black, the blade doesn't light up.

That's not to say the effect can't be accomplished, but it's not going to happen by mixing light. You'll need to play around with some optical illusions to get the look.

As has been posted already in this thread, for the Force Unleashed UV blade, currently your two options are a set of spinning lights in a delicate spinning apparatus (very neat build, by the by) or lining the blade with a cross-hatching of polarized film that's apparently ridiculously expensive and only available to TV screen manufacturers.

Pre Vizsla styled blades are a bit simpler. Flat polycarbonate blade with the sides masked off with black vinyl or paint. I usually see thick acrylic blades that'll shatter if you battle, or thick polycarbonate blades that light up a bit dimly. I'm personally starting to wonder about a flat, hollow polycarbonate blade stuffed with diffuser to try and bump up the brightness - would need to be machined in sections and then solvent-welded together, or maybe just a regular tube blade heat-formed into a flatter shape... But it's an idea.

A little off topic, but I accidentally discovered a cool way to give off the "unstable" look. If you can lightly crinkle the inner layer of film within the blade, the light bends and reflects around it looking very neat. Unfortunately, it dims the light. I wonder if the new Tri-Crees could handle that kind of interference and still fully light the blade.

I actually have two different plans for how to make a black blade, one being a cracked, Pre Visla style look, the other being a white edges FU blade, however, I'm not ready to reveal these designs until more experimentation has been done, and, if they work well, I check to see if any company wants to buy the design from me or something. XD

That's why we're here. What are we if not dreamers?

Ehhhm, I'm just not sure I wanna post the designs for everyone to see, if anyone gets the black blade first I'd rather it be Ultra, and not some company who found it on their forums and finished their stuff first.

So conduct your experiment. If it succeeds ask Emory if he would like start producing it.

Will do! As soon as I acquire the necessary parts.