Venting.

[ThreadJack]

I heard something about managers being business people who don't necessarily have any experience in the field they manage.....yeah, the crap is RAMPANT in retail. I'm getting really sick of corporate managers who have never worked actual retail/sales, and make rules and policies that have no business being implemented in an actual retail setting with real life actual assholes customers. Then telling us we have to treat them as gospel, or else. You hired me because I'm a good salesman, so how about letting me do my job and sell, without butting in and implementing policies that make it HARDER on me, and then telling me I need to do better.

[Noctis]

I blame it on today's overly PC "mind my pronouns" crowd. Everyone is getting butthurt over things that ultimately don't matter.

I think with the writing crowd, it's more to do with snobby, arrogant writers who think having an article or a self-published out there means they are somehow someone who gives "valuable" advice.      Please.  I have things published.  I have worked as an editor.  I certainly don't think "my" way is the "right" way like some of these jerks do.  There are many, many facets to writing.  I think James Joyce is a pompous, long-winded idiot and would rather gargle with rusty nails than read his work.  I find his writing to be absolutely painful to read, but yet?  He's considered to the author of many classics.  LOL, no thank you.




(Also, just an aside, if someone asks me to use a certain pronoun for them, I'm going to use it because it's no big deal to me to do so.  Nothing PC about it for me, though.  Just being nice! But I agree that some people go overboard.)   

[Darth Justicar]

I've probably ranted about this before, but allow me to do it again. 

I'm really sick of all the "writing advice" I see going around in my writing circles.  Said it not dead, there's nothing wrong with using adverbs in moderation, and if you are writing two characters of the same gender, it's 110% okay to refer to one of them by a physical characteristic in order to differentiate between the two instead of constantly using their names.  It does not "reduce them to parts." 

Yes, there are such things as proper grammatical structure and punctuation, but if the writing is doing its job, you needn't worry about any of the above-mentioned things.  There's no "one correct way" to write a story.  Go outside.

THANK YOU!!!  I get so tired of a lot of that advice that people treat like absolute rules.

[Noctis]

THANK YOU!!!  I get so tired of a lot of that advice that people treat like absolute rules.

You know, my idea of "good" writing is going to differ from someone else's.  There's a BIG difference between style, point-of-view, and subject preference and flat-out awful writing.  Also, all of these "said is dead" people?  Well, I could argue that if you're doing your damn job as a writer, "said" is all you need most of the time.  It's a kriffing dialogue tag.  If you have to constantly come up with alternatives, you're "telling" instead of "showing," so sit down. 

[Darth Justicar]

Even "show, don't tell" is subject to personal taste.  I mean...if it weren't, then my fun when reading Dostoyevsky would be wrong.

[Noctis]

Even "show, don't tell" is subject to personal taste.  I mean...if it weren't, then my fun when reading Dostoyevsky would be wrong.

What's meant by "show, don't tell" is actually often really misunderstood.  That's one cardinal rule most writers agree on from a technical aspect and doesn't really have anything to do with style.  That being said, there are MANY ways to "show" and THAT is subjective, but as a writing technique, it's a standard rule of fiction writing.  Non-fiction is a very different animal, of course.  

If a writer is "telling," it's considered a technical weakness in the editing industry and books that do nothing but "tell" never see the light of day.  It happens when the writer doesn't trust the reader to pick up what they're putting down, so they point a glaring neon sign to it that says, "NOTICE THIS DETAIL!"  It's a novice mistake and usually naturally corrects itself with time and experience.    I say that because I used to be REALLY bad about it myself.  

Yikes, sorry for taking over the thread for a minute!

I'm gonna vent about the fact that water company sprayed a BUNCH of symbols all over my grass and told me "not to cut it" for a week so it didn't vanish.  (Spoiler:  I cut it.  You can still their sh*t clear as day.)

[Master Nero Attoru]

Nope - just plain, applied mathematics.

I'm sorry I offended you.  Perhaps he was an isolated case, but I do remember peers complaining of other "vague" engineer profs.

I fully understand the need for clarity - especially in reports.  At the lab where I worked, management made all of the "big" decisions, but they had merely a basic knowledge of chemistry.
Any time a change needed to be made, it had to be explained why very clearly.  It was like telling five year olds sometimes.

As an engineer, I've experienced a wide variety of competency with fellow engineers.  I've had professors with prestigious engineering backgrounds who made deplorable teachers, and others that absolutely made my experience in college unforgettable (in a good way).  Professionally, I've worked with engineers who have my utmost respect and trust, and others who are completely useless.  There are times I feel like I could grab somebody off the street who would do a better job.

So long story short, as an engineer myself who considers himself at least a decent teacher (got a lot of love as a TA in college, as well as praise for my coaching), I'd advise you to avoid generalizations.  We come in all shapes and sizes, with all kinds of different technical or interpersonal skills.

[Rapine]

How is it, that when you give your all; when do everything in your power to ensure happiness and comfort, that people can not see it, or take for granted?

[Master Seblaise]

As an engineer, I've experienced a wide variety of competency with fellow engineers.  I've had professors with prestigious engineering backgrounds who made deplorable teachers, and others that absolutely made my experience in college unforgettable (in a good way).  Professionally, I've worked with engineers who have my utmost respect and trust, and others who are completely useless.  There are times I feel like I could grab somebody off the street who would do a better job.

So long story short, as an engineer myself who considers himself at least a decent teacher (got a lot of love as a TA in college, as well as praise for my coaching), I'd advise you to avoid generalizations.  We come in all shapes and sizes, with all kinds of different technical or interpersonal skills.

I teach engineering (mechanical engineering/Design process) in an University of technology. I have a master in engineering degree as well as a PhD and i have spent all my life in school .... mainly because i do not want to become an adult

During this life, from elementary school to university (for university, on both sides of the English Channel and on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean), i had plenty of teachers ... some very VERY good ... but also a lot of awful ones (bad teachers as well as very bad human beings). Considering these good and bad teachers, some are Engineer and some are not. I do not think we can make a link.

To me, generally, good teachers believe in the future and bad teachers consider that new students are stupid compare to the student they were when they were young ...

It is very hard to be a good teacher ... everyday, i try ... but many times, when i give a lecture, i can read in the eyes of my student, the feelings i had when i had the worst teacher on earth  
  

[Darth Logos]

I blame it on today's overly PC "mind my pronouns" crowd. Everyone is getting butthurt over things that ultimately don't matter.

Welcome to the new Americana. People just need to smoke some good bud, chill out, and shut the F$&^ up. Life's short enjoy it. Unless you enjoy being a pretentious A-hole that gets off on making others miserable. If the latter, you don't deserve to be happy.

Oh, I was paying attention  . Don't pay attention in my field and someone can die.

Welding is definitely not for everyone. You have to be a stubborn bastard with a high tolerance for pain, both physically from the burns and mentally for when the engineer screws up the print. 

I hear that. It is my opinion that welding is more art than science.

[Darth Justicar]

I heard something about managers being business people who don't necessarily have any experience in the field they manage.....yeah, the crap is RAMPANT in retail. I'm getting really sick of corporate managers who have never worked actual retail/sales, and make rules and policies that have no business being implemented in an actual retail setting with real life actual assholes customers. Then telling us we have to treat them as gospel, or else. You hired me because I'm a good salesman, so how about letting me do my job and sell, without butting in and implementing policies that make it HARDER on me, and then telling me I need to do better.

Oh good, it wasn't just my old company.

We needed an Undercover Boss, bad...I think some people really needed to get in the trenches.



Also, I think that this whole thing about "show, don't tell" might go back to Noctis' original point about bad writers' group advice.  It was always implied that this was accomplished by "sparse" prose in the groups I was in--as in, be like Hemingway (spew) or something.

[Noctis]

Oh good, it wasn't just my old company.

We needed an Undercover Boss, bad...I think some people really needed to get in the trenches.



Also, I think that this whole thing about "show, don't tell" might go back to Noctis' original point about bad writers' group advice.  It was always implied that this was accomplished by "sparse" prose in the groups I was in--as in, be like Hemingway (spew) or something.

It's got nothing to do with sparse prose.  That's asinine.  "Showing" can be accomplished in a variety of ways.

Sparse: "Dad left home.  A flag came back."

Prose-tastic: "On the day my father left, we kids stood around the dining room table, hoping for detailed letters of adventure, but holding back tears.  Each day, the arrival of the mail was an event, a strange type of excitement mixed with anticipatory dread that the metal box would yield nothing but bills, or worse, news of yet more time away from his life back home.  Time away from us.  A knock at the door was the cue for something grander, a package or an envelope too big to stuff inside that box.

No one expected the flag."

Both passages serve the same damn purpose.  One is sparse, one is not.  However, neither of them have to "tell" the reader "Dad was a soldier who got deployed.  He didn't come home because he was killed."    THAT is what it means to "show and not tell."  Some people would say the first passage does it better because it accomplished this feat in fewer words.  Some would say the second does it better because it give the reader better emotional context and supporting details.  Both are classified as having knowledge of what it means to "show and not tell."  Whichever one the reader likes the best is 100% preference.  

When the reader is told things like "the man was happy" or "the man was sad," the writing is considered flat.  If the guy is sobbing uncontrollably at a funeral, he is clearly sad.  If he's laughing and joking at a party, he's obviously happy.  The writer shouldn't have to follow up those kind of details with "and he was sad/happy."   The length of the prose that accomplishes the former has nothing to do with it.  

People who go on about how there is only ONE way to do this are idiots.

[Jev Moldara]

I always love how people read a lot into a story.

"Oh, the author made the door be painted blue to illustrate the existential sadness of the protagonist."

B.S.

The author probably did what just about every other author does and picked the color at random or because they like that particular color. There's nothing significant about it, so shut up.

[Noctis]

I always love how people read a lot into a story.

"Oh, the author made the door be painted blue to illustrate the existential sadness of the protagonist."

B.S.

The author probably did what just about every other author does and picked the color at random or because they like that particular color. There's nothing significant about it, so shut up.

Lol, yes.  That's some crap for sure.  Granted, symbolism is a thing and I use it myself quite often, but not every little detail of a story is packed with meaning and drama.  Not everything is Chekhov's gun.      I actually find the "Chekhov's gun" mentality to be a tired trope and can spot it a mile away in most writing or in movies.  It's overdone. 

[ThreadJack]

I have the problem that I can never tell if I'm being to brief or just rambling. That's why I don't do creative writing....

Oh good, it wasn't just my old company.

We needed an Undercover Boss, bad...I think some people really needed to get in the trenches.



Also, I think that this whole thing about "show, don't tell" might go back to Noctis' original point about bad writers' group advice.  It was always implied that this was accomplished by "sparse" prose in the groups I was in--as in, be like Hemingway (spew) or something.

Honestly, it's been this way EVERY single company I've worked for. They should simply implement a rule that everyone hired needs to do 90 days at an actual store, as both a regular associate and manager/supervisor so that they can see what it's actually like, and why certain things(like cutting available hours for scheduling down to nothing) does not work.