Venting.

[Zren Tobas]

Why can't we just have all the sabers we ever wanted?

[Lord Sidious]

Why can't we just have all the sabers we ever wanted?

... and within reasonable lead times. Ultrasabers is best at this I must say. 

[Darth Logos]

So the other day I vented about how I feel when my tablet starts getting an attitude. Today it starts up, works fine. By the time I get to work it is totally dead (from a 75% charge). It is less than a year old. I've never "hated" anything from LG, but the G-pad is a piece shell.

[Darth Justicar]

Smokers contaminate every environment they go in.  It's disgusting.  They should only be allowed to smoke in special, isolated chambers that keep everyone else protected from their toxic choices, and have to go through full military decon procedures for chemical and biological agents before being allowed to enter any space used by other people ever.

I HATE using an elevator where a smoker has been.  I hate having to worry that a product I purchase online comes from a smoker's home.  I hate when smokers think they are entitled to foul the environment for MANY YARDS just because they are outside, and that their right to contaminate themselves overrides my right to be free of smoke.  No, you do NOT have the right to inflict your disgusting habits on others.  EVER.  I chose to do the right thing; you do not get to drag me down.

(Am I EXTRA sore about this right now?  Yes, and I darned well have a right to be since I am recovering from a chest infection that makes it hard enough to breathe without coughing as it is.  I don't need POISON on top of that.)

[Jev Moldara]

Smokers contaminate every environment they go in.  It's disgusting.  They should only be allowed to smoke in special, isolated chambers that keep everyone else protected from their toxic choices, and have to go through full military decon procedures for chemical and biological agents before being allowed to enter any space used by other people ever.

I HATE using an elevator where a smoker has been.  I hate having to worry that a product I purchase online comes from a smoker's home.  I hate when smokers think they are entitled to foul the environment for MANY YARDS just because they are outside, and that their right to contaminate themselves overrides my right to be free of smoke.  No, you do NOT have the right to inflict your disgusting habits on others.  EVER.  I chose to do the right thing; you do not get to drag me down.

You are 100% entitled to hold that opinion. However, vocalizing that opinion in that manner is just as socially unacceptable as smoking around people who don't like it. Advocating that a portion of society be segregated from the rest is blatantly wrong, both morally and legally. Furthermore, tobacco use is not a right. It's an addiction. One that is more powerful than alcohol and most illicit drug use, making the forced isolation even worse, as it's something they cannot help.

[Darth Justicar]

It isn't even necessary to break the tobacco addiction to stop harming others, though.  Given that there ARE methods to address a craving that do not involve subjecting others' bodies to poison--such as patches or gum, heck, even old-fashioned chewing tobacco--I can't say that my position regarding smoking changes.  Whether or not the endgame of using those alternatives is to break the addiction in the end or to maintain it, once the delivery method stops doing harm to others, then it becomes a private matter.

[Darth Logos]

It's an addiction.

I'm going to disagree with this. The addiction comes as the result of a choice. The lack of exercise of self control. I smoke a pipe. But I only do it once a day, because it gets me out of the office. I don't smoke over the weekends, with the exception of a very rare occasion, because I refuse to let myself develop a nicotine addiction. I smoke for the pure enjoyment of it and not for the fix. That's why I buy higher grade tobacco than what is used in cigarettes. Plus I don't inhale. I still run the risk of any number of cancers, but I'm prepared to accept responsibility for my choices.

[Darth Justicar]

I don't personally even feel the need to argue about the physical addiction, differences in people's susceptibility to it, etc. since there is a means to take in nicotine without smoking.  I don't care what a tobacco chewer does, or if someone has a patch on, or chews nicotine gum...it's contained, and it's truly private business as opposed to something others have to deal with.  Smoking, however, is never a private matter.

[Noctis]

I kind of feel like this:

Put whatever you want to put in your body.  It's YOUR body.  Destroy it or be disgustingly healthy or something in between, if you like.  That's your right.  The caveat is that I don't want to have to be a part of what you do.  If you want to smoke in your house or in your car or in your own personal space where I don't have to walk through a cloud of it?  DO IT.  If the smell of smoke on your clothing doesn't bother you?  That's great!  That's your choice and it's 100% none of my business.

However, it's still legal to smoke in bars here and honestly,  I don't think that's right.  You can't smoke ANYWHERE else here, so why is it still allowed there?  I know I would certainly like to go out with my friends now and then to see a local band, but I don't because I honestly cannot handle breathing in all that smoke.  This is where I have to draw the line.  I haven't been to an indoor show in years because of this. 

[Obese Wan Kenobese]

Gotta join Justicar and Noctis on this one. It's not about isolating smokers. It's about isolating smoke.

It's my responsibility to contain my stuff and manage how it affects others. You don't want me sprinkling a little radioactive material in your soda. It's just a little bit. It would take years of repeated exposure to scientifically demonstrate it would hurt you. It's my right to ingest as much as I want. But you'd expect me to be responsible and reasonable enough to not spread it around in your food, clothes, eyes, mouth and anywhere else.

Discussing the issue as a right to smoke dodges the issue. It's not your right to spread it around. Manage that, and go for it. People just got so used to it, they stopped thinking about the responsibility all along.

[Rapine]

I do smoke cigarettes.  An indefensible, stupid habit, that costs hundreds per month, and kills you- literally.

 I fully agree that any person who does not want harmful toxin exposure has every right to not be inadvertently exposed to them.

BUT - To tell me - when I'm trying to hide, and be away from others while I kill myself  OUTSIDE!! -, that I'm doing something terribly wrong to others by doing so, while a dump truck drives by, spewing out thick, black smoke clouds, is, IMO, just backwards.

Still, I MUST stop. O_o

Smoking is banned in all indoor venues here.

[Noctis]

I do smoke cigarettes.  An indefensible, stupid habit, that costs hundreds per month, and kills you- literally.

 I fully agree that any person who does not want harmful toxin exposure has every right to not be inadvertently exposed to them.

BUT - To tell me - when I'm trying to hide, and be away from others while I kill myself  OUTSIDE!! -, that I'm doing something terribly wrong to others by doing so, while a dump truck drives by, spewing out thick, black smoke clouds, is, IMO, just backwards.

Still, I MUST stop. O_o

Smoking is banned in all indoor venues here.

I think there might be two different version of "outside" when it comes to smokers vs. non-smokers.

I see nothing wrong with you smoking outside away from others.  My problem comes when people stand right outside of the door of a business and smoke so that I have to walk through a cloud of it to go inside.  If you're standing by the corner of the building away from pedestrians?  Have at it!  But if I'm walking behind someone on the sidewalk, I don't appreciate being forced to walk through a constant cloud of smoke just because they're "outside."  Does that make sense?

If you're standing out there by a tree all by yourself?  Hey, man.  Whatever.  Smoke away.  You're not hurting me.

[Rapine]

But if I'm walking behind someone on the sidewalk, I don't appreciate being forced to walk through a constant cloud of smoke just because they're "outside."  Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense Noctis.

I DO fully understand the negative impact from second-hand smoke, and AM the one that walks away from others.  I don't EVER smoke  indoors, even if I'm told it's ok to do so, and not in vehicles unless the driver already is.

[Jev Moldara]

I think there might be two different version of "outside" when it comes to smokers vs. non-smokers.

I see nothing wrong with you smoking outside away from others.  My problem comes when people stand right outside of the door of a business and smoke so that I have to walk through a cloud of it to go inside.  If you're standing by the corner of the building away from pedestrians?  Have at it!  But if I'm walking behind someone on the sidewalk, I don't appreciate being forced to walk through a constant cloud of smoke just because they're "outside."  Does that make sense?

If you're standing out there by a tree all by yourself?  Hey, man.  Whatever.  Smoke away.  You're not hurting me.

It really all boils down to common sense when it comes to smoking in areas not designated as Smoking Areas.

1) Don't smoke near public entrances.
2) Don't smoke in crowds unless plenty of others are already doing so.
3) Don't smoke along major foot traffic thoroughfares.
4) If a Designated Smoking Area is within reasonable walking distance (1-2 min), go there.

Now, for the non-smokers who walk past a group of smokers who are enjoying themselves:

1) Don't loudly cough, gag, or complain, especially if you are a reasonable distance away. It makes you sound like a whiner.
2) If you don't like smoke and see a group of smokers together and you can detour around them, do so.
3) For the love of Benjamin Sisko's Q-smacking Pimp Hand, do not walk up to a group of smokers and start lecturing them on the dangers of smoking, ESPECIALLY if they are in a Designated Smoking Area. They know the dangers already. At the very least, you'll get snorts of derision. Some might just blow smoke in your face.

[Noctis]

It really all boils down to common sense when it comes to smoking in areas not designated as Smoking Areas.

1) Don't smoke near public entrances.
2) Don't smoke in crowds unless plenty of others are already doing so.
3) Don't smoke along major foot traffic thoroughfares.
4) If a Designated Smoking Area is within reasonable walking distance (1-2 min), go there.

Now, for the non-smokers who walk past a group of smokers who are enjoying themselves:

1) Don't loudly cough, gag, or complain, especially if you are a reasonable distance away. It makes you sound like a whiner.
2) If you don't like smoke and see a group of smokers together and you can detour around them, do so.
3) For the love of Benjamin Sisko's Q-smacking Pimp Hand, do not walk up to a group of smokers and start lecturing them on the dangers of smoking, ESPECIALLY if they are in a Designated Smoking Area. They know the dangers already. At the very least, you'll get snorts of derision. Some might just blow smoke in your face.

I completely agree with you, Jev.  Don't a rude jackass.  Come on, now.  It's none of your damn business what someone else is doing! 

It's like when I'm at the gym and someone tries to tell me how to lift.  If I tell you I know what I'm doing, leave me alone.  If I hurt myself, that's on me.   I don't need someone to stand there and advise me.  I know perfectly well what I'm doing, even if looks "wrong" to you.  And don't stand there and freakin' snicker and shake your head.  I can throw this 35 pounder at you.  I promise.