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Author Topic: Initiate V2 or V4 saber staff/dual wielding for spinning?  (Read 1306 times)
Dorvian
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« on: June 16, 2020, 04:13:19 PM »

Hello everyone!

I've been wanting to get a saber staff for a while now and I need something that can easily be used for lots of spinning but can also be split apart for dual wielding. I'm debating between the (Phantom) Initiate V2 and the Initiate V4 hilts. (I would also consider the V3 but that's out of stock and I don't want to miss the spring giveaway. Goodbye my beautiful choke points Sad ) Along with being easy to spin, I need the staff to be a good length so that I'm not scraping it on the ground or anything. I'm 5'10" and am aiming for total length to be around 72"-76" (unless 76" is too long, I have no idea). I'll definitely start off with 32" inch blades and custom order shorter ones if those are too long.

My main concern with the V2 is that there doesn’t seem to be much room at the bottom for a nice grip when using each individually. The raised part with the switch looks to be too close to the bottom which might get in the way... my hands are about average width at 3.5 inches (excluding the thumb) so I might rub against it which would probably get annoying. At 8.75 inches, there isn’t a whole lot of extra space for my hand.

However, I really want a staff where there’s just enough room for one or both hands and the blades and hilt are proportionate to each other. What I mean is it looks pretty weird when the total hilt length is pretty close to being the same length as one of the blades. In my opinion, it just looks better when the blades are noticeably longer. So getting the V2 might mean that there isn’t much room for my hand in dual wielding, but the V4s might look less proportionate to 32” blades. I’m not sure you guys tell me XD

I know from the V2 and V4 aren’t much different in size (the V4 is only about an inch longer), but the photos on the website make the V4 look much longer and wider for some reason (especially in pictures where they’re combined). Even so, combined, that’s still a two inch jump in length so I don’t know if that makes a difference in spinning.

Also, is the width difference between the V2 and the V4 noticeable and does it make any difference when spinning? (The V2 is 1.25” wide and the V4 is a standard 1.45” wide.) Choke points would be nice... but since that's not possible, does the size difference help grip and maneuverability or is it too small for average/largish sized hands?

 

Sorry if this seems like too much deliberation over such minor details, but this is the only lightsaber purchase I want to make for a while so I want to get it just right Smiley
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Cyclops942
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 04:47:15 PM »

Paging Galef!  Paging Galef to provide useful input on this exact question!
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 05:20:29 PM »

First, this is NOT too much deliberation. You have to be happy with what you get, and you should make every effort to order what you want.

Sadly, my recommendation would have been the v3's, since I greatly prefer those over the v2's and v4's, mostly for the choke points. However, since that's not currently an option, I would pick the v4. As for why:
I'm 5'10" and am aiming for total length to be around 72"-76" (unless 76" is too long, I have no idea). I'll definitely start off with 32" inch blades and custom order shorter ones if those are too long.
Personal opinion, 76" is going to be too long. 72" is pushing it in my view, but you can probably make it work. Remember you lose about 2" of blade length into the saber emitter, so a 32" blade is really only 30" of "blade." I agree with starting with 32" and seeing how it works from there. What you can try is to get a piece of PVC pipe cut to 72" (or 76" if you want to try it), put some tape on it to delineate the hilts from the blades, and see how it spins. If you hit the ground with it, cut it shorter and try again. I'm guessing somewhere between 70-72" is going to work for you.

Quote
My main concern with the V2 is that there doesn’t seem to be much room at the bottom for a nice grip when using each individually. The raised part with the switch looks to be too close to the bottom which might get in the way... my hands are about average width at 3.5 inches (excluding the thumb) so I might rub against it which would probably get annoying. At 8.75 inches, there isn’t a whole lot of extra space for my hand.
If I understand what you're saying correctly, you're worried the bottom of your hand will rub against the raised ring where the switch is, yes? In my experience, it's not raised enough to be a problem. But what doesn't bother me may bother you. (I did just measure and my hands are actually about the same size as yours). I also tend to hold my sabers as far up the hilt as possible, almost to the edge of the emitter. Which means on the v4, I actually hold it in the curved "choke" on the emitter (if I were holding a version with windows, my hand would cover the windows). And I find that to be REALLY comfortable too. The v4 can be held lower, below that area, but I find it works really well for me to hold it higher.

Quote
However, I really want a staff where there’s just enough room for one or both hands and the blades and hilt are proportionate to each other. What I mean is it looks pretty weird when the total hilt length is pretty close to being the same length as one of the blades. In my opinion, it just looks better when the blades are noticeably longer. So getting the V2 might mean that there isn’t much room for my hand in dual wielding, but the V4s might look less proportionate to 32” blades. I’m not sure you guys tell me XD
The v4's look perfectly fine with 32" blades separately, or as a double bladed saber. That's how I have mine and they work great, split or together (although actually I prefer longer hilts for single hand use).

Quote
I know from the V2 and V4 aren’t much different in size (the V4 is only about an inch longer), but the photos on the website make the V4 look much longer and wider for some reason (especially in pictures where they’re combined). Even so, combined, that’s still a two inch jump in length so I don’t know if that makes a difference in spinning.
Yes, because it can make a difference in balance, depending on blade length. That said, the length and width difference aren't that much if you have each saber in front of you. So ignore the pictures and focus on the actual measurements.

Quote
Also, is the width difference between the V2 and the V4 noticeable and does it make any difference when spinning? (The V2 is 1.25” wide and the V4 is a standard 1.45” wide.) Choke points would be nice... but since that's not possible, does the size difference help grip and maneuverability or is it too small for average/largish sized hands?
It's not as noticeable as you'd think, but it's more noticeable than you'd expect. I find the v4 width to be perfect for me, with the v2 width feeling too thin. But again, that's just my personal preference. One way you can actually see the difference before ordering is to go to the hardware or craft store, find the dowel rods, and see what the difference feels like between a 1.25" diameter and a 1.5" diameter (because they won't have a 1.45", although the diameter measurements of the dowels aren't exact anyway). That will give you an idea of what each feels like.

Quote
Sorry if this seems like too much deliberation over such minor details, but this is the only lightsaber purchase I want to make for a while so I want to get it just right Smiley
Like I said, comfort of saber in hand is not a minor detail. Getting it right is important.

Question: Are you planning on getting sound? If so, that makes the decision for you, since the v2's cannot have sound.

Suggestions:
1) If you're not already planning on it, get the quick disconnect coupler option. It has several advantages over the standard or adjustable couplers in that it disconnect quickly (hence the name) and each part also doubles as a saber pommel, which means you don't have to worry about taking them off, putting the normal pommels on, figuring out where the normal pommels are, hoping you remembered to bring the normal pommels with you, etc.

2) I don't know how long the v3's are going to be out of stock, but I would be very tempted to wait until they're back before making your purchase. This particular sale/giveaway usually happens at least twice a year, so even if you don't take advantage of it now, it will probably be back again. US always has some kind of sale going, whether it's % off, giveaway, or raffle. And I REALLY prefer the v3's, because of the choke points, over the v2's or v4's (or v5's for that matter).

3) Have you considered the Apprentice sabers? They're pretty much the same size as the Initiate v4's, just a slightly different design, and the upper choke area on those is also very comfortable to use single handed. Plus it makes a great "stop" when using it as a double bladed saber so you know when your hand it getting close to the blade. They also work well with 32" blades.


Finally, I'm going to be "that forum person"  Tongue that points out that it's not really a staff, it's a double bladed saber. US does sell the Yari extentions that you can use to make a staff or even a spear for that matter, which are also spinnable should you desire.

Hope all that helped, feel free to ask any more questions you have.
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Galef
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 05:35:18 PM »

Thanx for the shout out Cyclops942!

In terms of length as both a staff or paired, the Initiate V2 has plenty IMO. The section below the raise switch section is more than 3inches, which is plenty for me and I do not have small hands.

When I used both hands on a singe V2, my lower hand was generally placed my middle, ring finger & pinky in that section, with my pointer and thumb just over the bottom of the switch section.
That still gave plenty of room for my dominant hand to be placed at the upper chole point

But if you plan on duel wielding with 1 in each hand, the lower half of the saber isn't where you put your hands anyway. You want to use the choke point above the switch/below the emitter.
The Initiate V2 is GREAT for this, and the 32" blade upgrade will be wise.
I'm also 5'10, although I like the look of 28" blades for paired/staff, 32" is not too long either

The only reasons I sold my V2s and replaced them with a V4 staff is because:
A) I ordered them in Tri-green before I realized how awesome Blue LEDs + Photon blades are
B) I wanted to have a Quick Release coupler, which the V2 is not compatible with and
C) The V4 can have windows in the Emitter

Honestly, if I had originally ordered my V2 in Blue, I would have just kept it as-is because the windows are just a nice aesthetic and I had already made a PVC QR coupler that was ok (not as cool or quick as US's but good enough). But all 3 things combined were enough incentive for me to upgrade to the V4

If the QR coupler isn't a priority for you (like it is for me), I'd say go for the V2. They are a really comfortable size for either staff or paired. But I also like the V4 initiate staffs (both variants) and they aren't too much longer/thicker. But the main advantage of the V3/4/5, really everything the ISN'T a V2 is that they all are MHS compatible, so you can mix/match any pommel/coupler that isn't exclusive to the V2

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the choke point on the Apprentice V4 is actually thinner than the V2, so take that for what you will.
I also like the thin-ness of the V2s for variety sake, so while I've sold all the V2s we first purchased (for various reasons) I've ordered a V2 Aeon in RGB just to have in my collection. If you could get the RGB option on the initiate, I'd have done that instead

2) I don't know how long the v3's are going to be out of stock, but I would be very tempted to wait until they're back before making your purchase. This particular sale/giveaway usually happens at least twice a year, so even if you don't take advantage of it now, it will probably be back again. US always has some kind of sale going, whether it's % off, giveaway, or raffle. And I REALLY prefer the v3's, because of the choke points, over the v2's or v4's (or v5's for that matter).
I've only been sabering since December and the Initiate V3s have been out of stock since then at least, which is a share.
I originally did not like the aesthetics on those, but after getting a Dominix V3 as a Mystery box, I agree the choke points are extremely comfortable, so I'd imagine the Initiate variants would be the same

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Dorvian
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 06:32:14 PM »

Thank you Sakura No Kaze and Galef for the input! I know I said saber staff but you guys know what I meant Tongue  No, I'm not looking to get sound on this one so that's not an issue. Yep, I've considered the Apprentice hilts but the just don't appeal to me as much for some reason. For length though, it would be pretty sweet if US gave you the option of 28" blades for no extra charge since that seems like a good size in between 24" and 32" options. But I think I'm just gonna full send it and get the V4 with 32" blades because it probably isn't too much bigger than the V2 despite how it looks in pictures  Grin
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Galef
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2020, 07:00:55 PM »

Thank you Sakura No Kaze and Galef for the input! I know I said saber staff but you guys know what I meant Tongue  No, I'm not looking to get sound on this one so that's not an issue. Yep, I've considered the Apprentice hilts but the just don't appeal to me as much for some reason. For length though, it would be pretty sweet if US gave you the option of 28" blades for no extra charge since that seems like a good size in between 24" and 32" options. But I think I'm just gonna full send it and get the V4 with 32" blades because it probably isn't too much bigger than the V2 despite how it looks in pictures  Grin
Good plan, but be aware that couplers can add length too, so that's something to consider.
A V2 initiate with 32" blades will be ~75", while a V4 with a QR Coupler (adds 2") will be about ~80". Not really a big difference, but something to consider

And if the blades feel too long, you can always get a pipe cutter or hack-saw and cut the 32's down.
Just remember to remove the blade film before you start cutting.
Alternatively, you can get custom day blades from TCSS that can be pre-cut to whatever length you want. They also ship within a week in my experience.

Here are my reviews on Couplers: http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=45330.0
and how to assemble a day blade: http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=45200.0
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Dorvian
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 07:58:51 PM »

Yep that definitely is something to think about since that adds length, but I'm just going to order two 28" blades separately, and order 32"s with the double. The 28s should be perfect even with the added length of a QR coupler, and I can use the 32s for other hilts
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Sakura No Kaze
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 08:06:20 PM »

I've only been sabering since December and the Initiate V3s have been out of stock since then at least, which is a share.
I originally did not like the aesthetics on those, but after getting a Dominix V3 as a Mystery box, I agree the choke points are extremely comfortable, so I'd imagine the Initiate variants would be the same

Wug, I didn't realize they had been out of stock for that long. Which probably means they'll be back in stock tomorrow! Or another 6 months from now! Who knows!

I really wish they'd combine the choke points of the v3 with the emitter of the v4.
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Galef
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2020, 08:53:07 PM »

Wug, I didn't realize they had been out of stock for that long. Which probably means they'll be back in stock tomorrow! Or another 6 months from now! Who knows!

I really wish they'd combine the choke points of the v3 with the emitter of the v4.
With all that's been going on, the in stock/out of stock hilts have not been accurate at all on the site. I ordered an Apprentice v5 in Jan that was in stock at that time, but by March they emailed me saying it was suddenly out and gave alternate options. But that hilt did not say out of stock once in that time or since.
I've heard multiple stories just like this, so I think it's safe to assume that it's currently impossible to know if a hilt is in/out of stock based on the website.

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firehand10k
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 09:43:23 PM »

With all that's been going on, the in stock/out of stock hilts have not been accurate at all on the site. I ordered an Apprentice v5 in Jan that was in stock at that time, but by March they emailed me saying it was suddenly out and gave alternate options. But that hilt did not say out of stock once in that time or since.
I've heard multiple stories just like this, so I think it's safe to assume that it's currently impossible to know if a hilt is in/out of stock based on the website.

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While there may be in stock listing errors out of stock listing will not let one order those sabers so the accuracy doesn't much matter for those. The V3 sabers are not orderable.
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