Saber Forum

(https://i.imgur.com/qefnhBl.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/mpnTqS2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/rTmuI0e.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/QcGaouG.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nnsET1R.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/NnIoRbr.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/PrBDr9B.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/3Y0Igkl.png)

This guy gets it.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

Yep. :'(

Thank you!!!!! I love things regardless of what races, genders, sexual orientations, gender identities, etc are present in a given property.

You know what my first thought was when I saw the TFA trailer? Not "OMG PC CULTURE WE HAVE A BLACK STORMTROOPER AND A HISPANIC XWING PILOT AND A WOMAN WHY MUST THIS BE SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS!" No my first thought was "OMG STAR WARS IS BACK AND POE IS HOT!!!!!! OMG DAISY IS ADORABLE! WHEN CAN I SEE IT...... I CAN'T WAIT THAT LONG THIS SUCKS!!!!!"

I actually don't like seeing LGBTQ characters in media, because they generally screw it up. I'd love it if they'd do some research beforehand, ask some of us, get our experiences, etc before writing a character. It's super hard for a white, cis, straight 50 year old man to write a character who's a 20 year old, bisexual trans woman all on his own, as that isn't how he experiences the world. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort. I'd rather have a seat at the children's end of the table, than not be included at all, it just means we can and should do better.

When I see people scream and carry on negatively over things like two girls kissing on screen, or heaven forbid a trans character even shows up in a bit role... that hurts. A lot. Some of the debates these events spark, hurt. A lot. I'm expected to just sit on the sideline while *insert geek fandom here* debates over the fact that I even exist or deserve rights in the first place? That makes me not feel welcomed at all.

They do it to others too. I was actually appalled at some of the things I saw and heard when Gal Gadot was cast as Wonder Woman. They hated on her Israeli heritage, her body type, her looks, basically anything to complain about not casting someone that didn't fit their vision of the character to a T. All I know is that chick was a bad ass, worked her butt off, and shut a lot of haters up, and I love it. And let's say they cast someone more "athletic" looking, like Ronda Rousey, out come the "Wonder Woman isn't built like a man. She looks pretty muscular compared to most women, are we even sure she's even a 'real' woman?" etc.

Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran both deleted their social media because fans are butt heads. I agree with the Tweet: Fandoms, as a whole are butt heads. Let's all stop being butt heads.

I completely agree with this guy, he really gets it

This ^^^
All of this. Is it possible to love you any more? Point.

it seems that the bigger and more socially acceptable fandom gets, the more people infiltrate fandom and try to tear it down from the inside. Maybe they are just jealous that fandom is now the popular thing and those of us who love are considered "cool" We no longer are viewed of as weird. We no longer have to hide and be ashamed of the things we love.

Look at Taika Wahtiti. To many, he is a strange, eccentric, weird dude. And yet, he is extremely talented director, writer and storyteller. However, if fandom wasn't as popular in the mainstream, his genius would never be allowed to develop of flourish.

As a black man I get really annoyed when (and no offence meant here) white people pipe up and state that something is racist as if they are the authority on what black people find racist or not.

It's great we have Wonder Woman and now Captain Marvel being successes at the box office, as well as Black Panther. If I can relate to Stark, Cap or Thor why can't a white person relate to T'Challa. Yes, there will be certain cultural aspects that will resonate differently, but why should that matter.

Diversity and inclusion used to be what brought fandom together. Most of the lifeline friends I have is because we bonded over a comic, a movie, a tv show, a character. They introduced me to things I had never heard of before and I did the same to them. Like this forum, we all came here for one reason (lightsabers) but stayed because of the community. We don't always agree on everything, and that's fine. We have a conversation and share our respective opinions and accept that differences are part of what made fandom great.

I remember being a kid and having "discussions" as to which Star Wars character was the best. Gender didn't matter. Race didn't matter. Android, wookie, bounty hunter, sith, jedi, smuggler, princess, moisture farmer - it didn't matter. Because the conversation was about a shared experience of a movie/franchise that we loved.

It's no secret that I'm a huge film fan. I don't blindly see the positive in every movie, but I consciously prefer to focus on the positives. Because liking things is more fun than not liking things. I got excited about Captain Marvel because it was another Marvel movie introducing a new character we hadn't seen onscreen before. It didn't matter to me that she was a woman. And I was entertained. Even when time came to reflect on what I'd seen for my review that I looked at the movie in the grand scheme of the MCU. Not once did I need to mention or focus on her gender, because her gender is not what defines the character or her actions (much the same as pretty much every other character in the MCU). However, I acknowledge that there will probably be little girls around the world who will be forever changed by this movie the same way I was changed by the Christopher Reeve Superman when I was 6 yrs old.

Anyway, long may this forum continue to be the fun place where we respect each others opinions, can have an interesting debate even when we differ and can share our love for the things that (should) bring us all together.

That's something I forgot to touch on, actually. I know exactly how you feel, I hate when straight cis people act like they get to decide what is homophobic or transphobic. No, you do not get to decide what we are offended by, stop.

This of course does not mean you can't state something is racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, anti-semetic, etc if it's already established that those types of comments are indeed offensive. We all know certain words and phrases that are offensive to certain groups of people, for instance. That's not the kind of thing Knox and I are talking about.

Yep. Exactly. I think minorities are perfectly capable of voicing what they consider to be racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist/whatever.

I've had to start certain conversations with something akin to "Actually, as a bisexual woman, that isn't homophobic, you're reaching a bit." And people still argue with me. ::)

I get people trying to offer justifications for or be an apologist for things if I have commented that I have found it racist.

Anyhoo, I think it's important to remember that the trolls in fandom are a vocal minority. Yes, they are very vocal sometimes, but they are still a minority. All their protestions and online campaigns couldn't derail Wonder Woman, Black Panther or Captain Marvel. We've just heard that Disney has rehired James Gunn to direct Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (see movie thread for more details).

The Captain Marvel thing is a really good example. There was so much stuff going around online saying that this movie will fail financially, that it still struggle to make $500 million total worldwide during it's entire run, that no-one has any interest in seeing a movie about an unknown character. And what happened? Biggest box office opening weekend for a 1st solo movie for a comic book character that had never appeared in a movie before. $455 million worldwide in it's first weekend. Proof right there, that while our fandom seems expansive because we are online are chatty about the things, as a whole fandom is very insular and tiny when compared to the rest of the muggle world.

This doesn't excuse asshats from spreading their bile and trying to destroy fandom. But it does show that the vocal ones are in an even smaller minority and they have a self-inflated opinion of their importance.

I have hope (like Leia at the end of Rogue One) that in the long run, fandom will survive the haters and go on to create a perfect societal Utopia like the one in Bill & Ted where everyone is excellent to one another.

I think(and I believe we're very close) that eventually the majority will stand up to the very vocal minority, and they will once again be relegated to the dark fringes of the internet.

(https://i.imgur.com/AjNcphj.gif)

I remembered when I cosplayed Captain America and had lots of toxic fan say things like "Captain America isn't from China" or "Why can't you find an Asian character to cosplay" but yet I see lots of non-Asian cos-players cosplaying Asian characters and anime and I never bat a eye.  I've also seen the same toxic cos-players that have anime and Asian inspire characters but that's okay if they do it.   I remember one guy at a convention started say the same thing and I wanted to punch him but left him alone until he touched me then my military reaction kicked in and he was left unconscious.  Needless to say, his minions stopped saying things to me.  Was the last time that I cosplayed

That's really wrong, Infinite. Who cares about someone's ethnicity, or anything? If you do a convincing job and are happy, it doesn't matter. I'm sure my Mara Jade costume will get similar reactions if I get clocked, or they otherwise find out I'm trans.... "Mara Jade wasn't a dude." "::)

Thanks, Brooke. I agree completely, cosplaying is all about becoming the character now matter who you are. 


A group of cosplayers approached my friends and I in a different con and gave me their support saying that I cosplayed Master Chief very well after I received similar hate from a group of toxic and racist cosplayers that got kicked out for their behavior.  They then showed me that they're an LGBTQ group of cosplayers which I didn't realize and that they receive a lot of hate due to being so.  We all hung out that week and had fun since all of my friends were cosplaying either a character of a different sex or a different race but only the haters noticed that. I say cosplay Mara Jade and enjoy it, I wouldn't of know that you were trans until you mentioned so a few months back.  To me, anyone can cosplay any character.  The haters are confirmation that you're doing things rights

I'm lucky, it's not obvious. I'd probably get the other "normal" comments too.... :P

Just cosplay who you want, haters don't matter!

Thanks again and the same goes to you too, TJ.  Cosplay whomever you want and don't worry about the haters.  I look forward to seeing how you'll cosplay Mara Jade

I enjoyed reading this thread, much of the discussion hit home for me as a con participant and proud supporter of my daughter, thank you. 

You're welcome.

Point for that, Knox

Only just caught this thread.

And there's a lot to this.  I have made some GREAT friends because of "OMG, you are interested in X, too?  That's cool!"  And yeah, for a time, geek culture was a subculture.  And it shifted.  Cultures shift - they're a living thing.  As people aged, nerds grew up and brought it with them.  But as nerds came up into wider culture, we also had the rise of the Internet.

And the Internet gave the anonymous voice power.  And along with that, anonymity gave the darker voices a forum.

It is easier to hold yourself to account when talking with a person that is different from you.  When you look them in the eyes.

But when they're a name on a screen, it's EASY to think that those names aren't real, that they're a persona, a masquerade... and that the feelings of the persona don't matter as much as YOUR feelings because YOU'RE real.

I won't say I'm innocent of it.  Thankfully, it's been quite a few years, but it can be easy to slip into the dark spot, especially when life isn't going how one thinks they deserve.  It's easy to be angry at others enjoying what seems to be good luck.

But I know it's there, and I acknowledge it.  I also have the benefit of a good spouse who is an anthropologist and very much works for empowerment of others, so I do my best to learn from the knowledge she brings.  I brought this up in a thread that got kiboshed back on the Random Thoughts thread (and I don't object to that; it was straying into raw territory that was hitting a lot of emotion, and wasn't something sought for these forums), but to sum up, I WANT more voices.  The more voices we have, the better the choir sounds.  The more voices we have, the more stories we get to hear.  And that's a good thing, in my opinion.

Way I've always seen it I like swinging lightsabers and raiding with friends. I don't care what your story is, lets just have a good time and make some laughs.

Exactly.I think I mentioned somewhere on the site (probably in one of the Captain Marvel discussions) that diversity and inclusion does not mean taking away seats from the table so that people who were already there can't sit down. Diversity and inclusion means adding more chairs to the table so more people can sit down.

We have different genres for a reason and different people/cultures can also give us something new and different within those genres, which is a good thing.

Agreed. Diversity doesn't mean that it's replacing what's already there, it's adding to it.  My personal opinion is that toxic fans that attack other fans who cosplay or like a character for their own reasons are just insecure with themselves.  Cosplaying is a lot like the saber hobby where we all come together no matter color, sex, age, religion, toilet paper of choice, location, favorite Lethal Weapon film, etc. and display our love for a movie, character, series, etc.

Amen.

I've seen the angry tweets that Star Wars  or Star Trek has turned SJW.  Those people weren't watching the same thing I was, these stories have always been about social justice.

Infinit01's story reminded me of the Aurellio Voltaire concert I saw.  Before he introduced his country song, Hate Lives In a Small Town, he talked about how being the only weirdo in town and how he got a daily dose of "you suck" and "you should kill yourself."  That after awhile, like that popular song you can't stand, if you hear it enough times, you'll catch yourself humming it.  Well, one night, he was feeling down and humming that tune and took a turn into the sole town diner for another round of abuse before his last stop.  And right after the first idiot starts the refrain, some people at a table he'd never seen before said, "You should sit with us."  And they were dressed in ways he'd never seen before, and told him about the Rocky Horror Picture Show they were going to see.  He'd found his crowd.

Used to be, in the 1980's,  that was what nerdom was.  Finding that crowd of freaks and geeks and weirdos, who accepted your brand and showed you the many others you might also like.

We've forgotten that lesson. Maybe we never learned it.  We just gotta be there for others, and offer them a seat at our table.