Saber Forum

Demonstrating some contact staff techniques with a saberstaff. Just short clips at the moment, I am still getting used to the length and heft, and the modifications that make contact moves easier still need to be iterated upon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFTAK1LlyH0

These are by no means all possible techniques. Some are still too difficult with the staff as it is, while others I do not have the skill to attempt. Some I also find kind of silly, like that conveyor at the end. That said, I do intend to build a library of instructional videos, with particular emphasis on challenges from using a saberstaff. Do let me know which techniques you would be most interested in learning first!

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!

Oh how I have wanted someone more competent than me on these these things to come along. I can manage an angel roll most of the time, a fish tail about half the time, the conveyor belt and halos OK enough, and even a halo 360 upon occasion, but for some reason, the Steve has always eluded me. I always clock myself in the head. The other moves have been rough to learn since all instructional videos use contact staffs which are balanced quite differently from a saber staff. My technique is accordingly sloppy. I use a Phantom initiate v3 staff with a yari extension, 18" blades and silicone tape. I can't wait to see what you come up with in a tutorial as all of my contact moves need work. Also, if you can manage, I would appreciate a look at a chi roll if you can pull it off with a saber staff.

Thanks for being so encouraging!

It sounds to me like you have already made some headway into the regular contact techniques. The Steve family of moves do take awhile to learn, and especially in the beginning having more weight on the ends make a huge difference. If you check out 2:29 in that video you can see where I wrapped a couple strips of bicycle inner tube to the end of my staff. This simple modification, which adds maybe 50 grams on either end, really made everything in that video much easier to achieve.

Unfortunately I've never put time into learning the chi roll, mainly because the dragonstaff movement aesthetic never did appeal to me. I'll see if I can get one of the dragonstaffers in my community to give it a whirl though. Learning chi rolls would be very difficult without dragon extensions, I suggest sticking a bunch of claws at the end of your saberstaff. See if that helps.

The infamous Steve's.....as a practitioner of the Staff/Spear, this is a very hard concept for me to accept. As a practitioner of saber spinning, i find this as a challenge i must tackle. I never use the any of the typical spin grips most contact staff followers use because of the combat arts i study. In any case, Darth Cephalus and Samhain introduced me to finger rolls and flips, so I suppose this is the next course of action.

Just an example...if you ever watch how i do a " obi - ani " ( which is really called a little flower or a blossom to me... ) i never use the A-Ok loose/firm grip..the Kali in me will not allow it...so i simply turn my hip more to compensate. Luckily, JKD is my primary art so thinking outside the box allows me to accept things like learning a....steve.....i hate that its called a steve by the way...

Point for you.

I do get what you mean. Having a bit of a martial arts background myself I have always approached contact staff as something to be sprinkled into a spinning performance to add flavour. Things like finger rolls, tiptails, and the conveyor family never really appealed to me. Prayer Steves and the Matrix though, that's Jedi and Sith right there!

Incidentally, can anyone suggest some place to look up the spinning terminology this community uses? Took me awhile to realize what an obi-ani meant, my fire performance club in college called them shotguns. What do you call the basic spins here? Forward spins? Downward spins? Warrior spin 1? Are there any others I should be aware of?

That's two posts indicating interest in the Steve now. Was actually thinking of starting with the Halo, as it is doable with minimal staff modifications, and can be made to look more 'martial'. Steve would have been left for much later, once I figure out how someone would learn it with a staff that they really don't want to drop.

We all use slightly different terms. Figure 8's, reverse 8's are common. A Halo for instance is different for me than for other people. As for the Obi-Ani, in martial arts (atleast where i come from) they are referred to as the little flower ( Obi-Ani ) the standard Blossom, which builds into a basic Plum Blossom and so on and so forth. For the record, there are almost an endless amount of versions of a Plum Blossom once the angles of attack are added.

Hi Enzo.  An inspiring video.  Can totally understand why you have chosen a v2 staff and are wanting more weight to the emitters.  That being said, won't that significantly change the balance and also add weighty tension/pressure on to your wrists ?  I think that you have already established that you are using a heavy grade blade.  Since the emitter is 3 " deep with 2 set screws, have you thought of placing heavier metal washers on top of the LED housing.  

Look forward to seeing more videos... perhaps with just a bit more light so especially your hand/wrist/arm movements are more visibly clear.

Thanks for the share and point.  8)

It is exactly that change in balance that enables a lot of contact moves. Not to say that it is impossible without them but it really really helps, especially when first starting out. The modified moment of inertia really slows down the rolls and rotation, giving us a larger window of opportunity to accomplish different moves. This is also why there has been a general shift towards thinner and thinner staves for contact work, for instance the community in the US generally uses 0.875" OD or lower.

As for tension/pressure on the wrist, maybe? I've been playing with end-weighted staves for 11 years now, can't say I notice it anymore. Also I'm not actually adding all that much weight here, the rubber strips I used for that demo video added maybe 50g-100g on each end. I did replace that ad-hoc construction with some rubber O-rings for testing today, things definitely felt more precarious and less stable. Still iterating on the modifications.

I believe the blade holder section is 2" deep. That was the value quoted to me by Marlena over at UltraSabers and none of my measuring has contradicted that. Are you suggesting placing the metal washers between the back of the LED unit and the switch? I'd have to cut and reconnect wires to do so wouldn't I? (Actually, I could just cut the washer.) That's an interesting thought. I'll look into it.

Any instructional videos will definitely have increased lighting. Thank you for the reminder.

Here are two contact saberstaff clips I took today:
http://www.instagram.com/p/BM_2ts4gJUS/
http://www.instagram.com/p/BM_3l2uAaql/

Hi.  Just checked my Aeon v2 staff.  The LED housing does sit down at 3 inches deep.  Made some blade plugs to fit them and they are a flush 3" match.  I actually meant a larger hole washer(s) sitting on top of the metal housing and flush with the blade.  Something to add both weight and not hamper the blade illumination. The 2 set screws should help to prevent movement or rattling.  Don't know for sure, but I would be concerned about possibly shorting out or eventually cutting through the wiring by placing the metal rings internally.  Interesting concept though.  You may be on to something that could work well.  Good luck with this.

Thanks for adding more videos.  Will watch a bit later.  :)

You got me curious too and I pulled out a tape measure. You were right. The blade reaches 3" in.

I understand what you are suggesting now. Thinking about it I'm still a bit worried about rattling. Would really rather not mess with anything internal.

My ideal end-weight is a shaft collar actually, to be fitted at the tip of the blade emitter like a tsuba. Haven't been able to find any in stores locally though, and I am reluctant to order some online without testing first. Would you happen to have a good measure of the diameter of the emitter/switch sections? I'm getting 35mm and a smidgen, which makes me think it is 1.38".

Current idea is to buy some lead-core fishing wire and wrap it on the ends, maybe between some O-rings for shape/support.

Hi.  I got the same 35 mmm and a smidgen measurement.  I forgot about this v2 RGB saber I made up after watching The Last Samurai movie.  Actually is a plastic tusba that has a lot of tight 0 rings underneath attached not to the hilt emitter but to the blade.  That guard is not moving and I have tested it out extensively.  So far the 0 rings have not stretched out or cracked.  This is sort of what your concept might look like.  :)


(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/deeweg/lightsabers/8def4c5b-7023-4aa4-9190-1c9545a7ffbb_zpssxl1nth0.jpg) (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/deeweg/media/lightsabers/8def4c5b-7023-4aa4-9190-1c9545a7ffbb_zpssxl1nth0.jpg.html)


(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/deeweg/lightsabers/17d9b637-cc69-4d5b-a2df-d547a0205f95_zpsuvoepbea.jpg) (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/deeweg/media/lightsabers/17d9b637-cc69-4d5b-a2df-d547a0205f95_zpsuvoepbea.jpg.html)


EDIT:  On second thought... that style of tsuba would likely be too bulky.  I suggest you PM sedstiskyfaller who is our Forum resident 3-D creator.  He may be able to design some weighted emitter caps with your specifications.  :)

The weight is the biggest problem I have had. My contact staff is so easy compared to my saber staff. The Yari extension solution I have in place makes the whole thing heavier and lengthens the sweet spot, but it does not provide the counter balance of end weights. I have a feeling that the inner-tube thing you suggest might not work either, as I think the added weight might just be a drop in the bucket. Maybe I will just have to switch to v2s.

I cannot imagine doing contact staff with a 1.5" diameter staff, yet there are people like Kevin Arleri of France and Romi Yacop of Singapore who do use such staves. Maybe look up some of their work and see what kind of manipulation is possible. With something so large and hefty I would imagine all the finer finger manipulation stuff gets abandoned: tiptails are simply impossible, finger rolls might risk injury. Stick to wrist wraps and rotors for staff manipulation.

Those rubber strips were cut from a single discarded bicycle inner tube. Each strip was only about 0.8" wide and 38" long and weighed nothing next to the staff, but made a HUGE difference in how the staff handled. Sure it looks bad, but it's a free modification you can try out to gauge how much weight you need to add and how it changes the feel of the staff.

Well with that confirmation I am considering just ordering a 36mm shaft collar and making up the difference with tape.

That tsuba does look neat. I would be concerned that this would put even more pressure on the blades during drops though, and I am leery of reducing the visible length of my blades anymore.
I was actually thinking of a shaft collar with claws, how that would be a faster way to attach claws to a saber. Might open up the chi roll and similar moves, though of course main concern is dropping.

I didn't want to derail this thread too much, so I started a new one:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=33171.0
Perhaps this could work for you ;)

Just posted my first 2 tutorials for contact saberstaff. Starting with the very basics. They should be intuitive for most people so I added some application drills at the end.


Inward Hand Wrap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE2x_kqCaL0

Inward: Up and In, Down and Out.
An inward spin goes up and in towards the centerline of the body, then down and out towards the sides.


Outward Hand Wrap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMBcTEJTUWY

Outward: Up and Out, Down and In.
An outward spin goes up and out towards the sides, then down and in towards the centerline of the body.


Staff: UltraSabers Phantom V2
Blades: 29" Heavy Grade Blades
Grip: Tennis Grip and Rubber O-rings
End-weight: A small strip of discarded bicycle tyre inner tubing and the middle piece from a PVC threaded union


Let me know what you think! How can I make these better?

Next tutorial piece up, on the rolling balance. One of the most basic of techniques, yet essential for many later contact moves.  Practice this at different angles and speeds.

With this and the previous hand wraps we get to the first two drills for learning the half steve!

Music: Cylinder Six by Chris Zabriskie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tjBAoDOntg

It is the first of those that has always given me trouble. A lot of it has to do with my hair though.

I had shoulder length hair until relatively recently. It does present issues, especially in the next step when we add in the neck wraps. Tying it up into a high ponytail helped me.

The first of the combinations demonstrated here:: the horizontal inward hand wrap to rolling balance down the arm depends on a few key things.

1. Make sure our starting grip is off center enough.
2. Start the hand wrap with enough rotation.
3. Controlling the releasing arm angle to get a smooth roll at the speed we intend.
4. Maintaining the correct roll to rotation ratio to get to the neck without hitting us.

If you would like to post or pm a video of you attempting this I would be happy to give some pointers.

Tutorial on the simple neck wrap. Easily picked up, this move is not all that useful on its own, but is invaluable as a building block to many of the more advanced contact staff techniques!

Once competency is reached practice with earlier releases, different and later catches, etc. I only showed the one easiest to learn with.

A few drills are demonstrated in the video, mastery of these unlocks the much vaunted Half Steve!

Music: Snack Time by The Green Orbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xblIH2XmqSg

Very nice tutorial yet again. Thanks and keep them coming. Once the holidays are over and I can practice regularly again, I feel I will be mastering the steve in no time between this one and the last.

Thanks. I'm definitely doing the half steve next. Trying to decide if there are any drills I should include with it or to just demonstrate a bunch of more advance continuations like the full steve, prayer steve, minimal steve, etc.

Then I'll probably do the Halo. Or the building blocks to the angel roll. Or something.

Honestly though THE definite contact staff tutorials will always be MCPs stuff, have you checked those out?

Here is another compilation video demonstrating a bunch of contact staff techniques with the saberstaff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUbTzbQBXY

Love watching your vids man, makes me want to get a staff  ::)

Broke the steve barrier today. The problem was that I was trying to do it too fast with too much rotation. Same issue I had with angel rolls. Still not perfect, but I went from pulling it off  one in twenty to pulling it off one in three in a single practice session once my body learned what it felt like. The other thing that helped me slow it down was practicing shoulder traps.

great tutorials. Going to attack these tomorrow. I know a few already but the " Steve's " .....those infamous Steve's.....going to have nightmares about practicing it, for sure.

I see all the mods you've done to that staff. I will be doing none of that, at all. So may have to practice with the good ole contact staff....might be easier for the learning curve.

That is what I am using. I am going to worry about transitioning to a lightsaber after I have it down.

Short tutorial posted for the reverse fishtail. These tend to be easier to learn compared to the forward fishtail.

Working on the a short Halo one too. Should have that up soon-ish.

Music is Stale Mate by Jingle Punks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj7BduSwFrs

Point!
I love watching this stuff.  Need to get me a staff....

Tutorial for the Halo. This basic move is easily added to any spinning routine, and is an essential building block to many advanced contact staff techniques. Depending on your background you might know this as something else though.

Music is Fun by Vibe Tracks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L9GoVDdxpE

This is awesome! I've been practicing just twirling with my hands but you've opened up a whole new level of things to work towards!

Wonderful video.  I really wish that I had your dexterity and facility w/ a saberstaff  ;)  You really have excellent demonstrative ability and it comes across in your tutorials; keep up the great work  :)