Saber Forum

This thread is intended to give some general information about the organization I'm involved with, Terra Prime Light Armory (TPLA).  To give you some background, here's a rundown on some of our key members (many of which are Resident Masters on this forum).

Headmasters:
Darth Nonymous - Formerly a RM here, resigned when running TPLA kept him too busy to contribute here.  Founder and Director of TPLA, extensive background of multiple decades in training and teaching Chinese martial arts.
Nero Attoru - That's me of course!  Background in sport fencing, including coaching at the collegiate level for multiple years.
Artorius Vidnyl - My buddy and an actual walking weapon due to a few decades of training in multiple arts (TKD, BJJ, kenjutsu, etc).
Uilos (aka Craig Page) - Our Lore Master and founding member of the Rogue Alliance in NYC.  Also our expert in stage combat and choreography.
VorNach - Founded TPLA along with Darth Nonymous, extensive background in HEMA (German Longsword in particular).

Knights:
Darth Telos - Runs The Gathering of Sabers (TGOS) in Syracuse, and has decades of experience teaching Chinese and Filipino martial arts.
Harbinger (Jeff) - Runs a kenjutsu dojo, extensive background in Japanese swordsmanship.
Tanq (Rick) - Formed a saber group in Columbus, OH called Orbital Saber Arts.  Background is in various Chinese and Japanese sword styles.


Anyway, hopefully that gives you an idea of our qualifications.  As I mentioned briefly, we currently have a few different physical locations where you can learn lightsaber combat (Syracuse, Columbus, Ann Arbor), and outside of those locations we have many Learners in Exile who train with us online.  They start as Initiates and train Shii-Cho to completion, at which time they move into the Apprentice group to study the next three Forms.  This is accomplished largely via video submissions on our forum (PM me if you want details on joining).

Our use of the Seven Forms, as many of you know, is a progression from the absolute basics to the most advanced concepts.  Here's a basic rundown of how that works.

Form I (Shii-Cho):  Initiate level, teaches the essential core of lightsaber combat (cuts, parries, movement, etc).
Form II (Makashi):  Apprentice level, teaches elements of blade on blade interactions.
Form III (Soresu):  Apprentice level, teaches defensive concepts (orbits and more parries).
Form IV (Ataru): Apprentice level, teaches offensive concepts (power generation).
Form V (Shien and Djem So):  Knight level, brings together previous concepts into a cohesive combat method.
Form VI (Niman):  Headmaster level, takes Form V to a new level by incorporating advanced techniques.
Form VII (Juyo):  Headmaster level, breaks the structure to allow the swordsman true customization of combat techniques.

Any questions or interest, please feel free to contact me!  I'm essentially the most active of my TPLA colleagues on here, so I'd be happy to get anyone set up with our program.  I highly recommend at least checking it out, if you're interested in learning how to use the lightsaber (for any purpose).

So Nero, does TPLA have its own competitive system or is it strictly martial (as in purely "realistic")?

We utilize sparring in addition to regular training, to test out the techniques learned.  I find that it's a good opportunity to give some added perspective to learners, so they have a better idea of why we do things certain ways.  Depending on what we're looking to train, we will use different rule sets.

We have several learners over in France, and they actually held a tournament not too long ago.  It was awesome to see!  Their leader is currently an Apprentice of ours, working quickly toward instructor status (Knight level).

Hey Nero!  How does the satellite training work?  I'd be interested in adding this to my martial arts training.  My form of karate is purely unarmed, but we are encouraged to seek additional training on our own.  I think this would make a nice complement to the bo training I'm doing.  :-)

Karmack

Hey Master Nero, did TPLA have an official name change?

I thought that at one time the organization was called "Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy"... Mandela Effect??

I think it would likely provide a very interesting supplement to your training!  I'll PM you the info, but you basically submit video to earn Achievements for each Form.  They're reviewed by the certified TPLA instructors, and you're given feedback (and if appropriate, awarded the Achievement).  It's quite a bit of fun, I recommend taking a look.


The blanket organization is called Terra Prime Light Armory (for obvious copyright-related reasons among others).  We're still effectively a lightsaber academy though, it's our main focus!

Thanks Master Nero!  I will definitely take a look!

I'm tempted to come check out the Ann Arbor classes. Is it straight saber training? Or do you include staff training? I only ask because I have previous experience in Bojutsu, so I feel knocking the rust off would be easier than learning new technique.

You may be able to train with a staff to a certain extent, I would contact Darth Nonymous about that aspect.

I will certainly do that. Thank you

Nero, can you talk about the helmets you suggest for sparing? I picked up lacrosse gloves for the family which work quite well.

Good choice!  I tend to find that the most accessible and low cost option for head protection is a basic epee fencing mask.  For example, these are the ones I always used to buy for my team (when I was head coach):

https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/shopping/product_info.php/products_id/28/cPath/1

If you're able, I recommend trying to visit a nearby location (if there is one) and trying on one of these.  This particular mask runs a little on the large side, IMO.  I have a fairly large head, and I tend to wear a Medium (although it's a little small on me).  Truthfully, I'm between Medium and Large.  If you want any tips on what size might be good, just let me know and I'll chat with you about it.

Nero... I'm day 1, saber is in the mail new!!! I'm 43 and I have an apt full of Star Wars, chicks get weirded out but stay anyways lol... how do i get started in training?? Anything in DVD??
 

Hello again, Nero,

I haven't heard anything back from Nonymous. Would you be able to provide me with any more information on staff training?

Thanks Nero! Something I'll note (that may be obvious to others): Having gloves enabled our casual sparing to get a little more spirited. Dad taking a saber to the head from my youngling has motivated us (me!) to get more safety gear.

Check out our Youtube page, and take a look at the vids there.  You're welcome to join our forum if you'd like to start submitting - TPLALXforum.boards.net.


It's truthfully not a large part of our curriculum, more of a curiosity.  However, we've had some uses for it in the past, such as these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTjSPeP9Ho4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSHfyhM4f4&t=8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeXaA5Wwkts

This is quite old is this still available?

awesome👍

Id love training if that still is possible.

Ok…So I've checked this out a few times and I'm completely baffled where/how to begin. Do I just try and copy the Form 1 videos? How does this work?

I am seeing this is something I'd like to get into.  I would be about as green as they come.  I have no martial arts or sword training.  I do however have a saber.  I just need an appropriate length blade, lol

I've just discovered it, and from now I'll be following your YouTube channel very closely. Exactly what I've always wanted, genuine lightsaber combat techniques!

I am intrigued too. I have watching Nonymous's breakdown of Jar'Kai most closely. And have committed the basics of that discussion to memory.

unfortunate that none of the TPLA peeps really don't respond much on this thread. I seriously need to find someone to teach me here in nj.

I find the videos to be usefull. They gave me ideas for dual wielding.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Gd8sBvSIlxA?feature=share

Have you wanted to learn the true art of the Lightsaber? TPLA are accepting new students! Anyone from any where in the world can join in! Join a Training Clan and meet our students from our international student body. Come learn from the creators of the TPLA system, and become a part in it's evolution! Enjoy Student class opportunities and special material available to Official Students. And for those who are dedicated, work to become an Apprentice with one of our instructors.

Have more fun than you should learning a martial art! Unlock your imagination and your physical fitness while learning a new and dynamic sport and art.

How do you join?
Create a 1-2 minute video of you performing with your saber. This can be a demonstration of a form, freestyle, drills or your daily practice. This video will let us know what your level is coming in. Send this to us here, in our groups, or email us at [email protected] between August 23 and August 30th. We will review each video and give feedback.

We look forward to seeing you! Patience, Practice, Perseverance.
Happy Sabering!

Watch TPLA live on Sunday 15 for more background info.

https://youtu.be/sVgqAEY2wN8

let's say you're a rank beginner? You'd like a video of me flailing tragically? Also, cost?

No cost. Aside from the Patience, Practice, and Perseverance requested of a TPLA student, training is 100% free.

and what should I do for my submission? I am a blank canvas

Start here! Shii-Cho, Form I. Learn your basic guards, stances, footwork, cuts, and parries.

https://tplafightingwords.com/2019/01/08/shii-cho-the-beginning-formula/

Does the video have to be a single take? I have a few clips that, if put together, would provide a better representation. But if you want a single take/day, I totally get that too. Thanks!

I'm sure if you have a few different clips that you wanted to edit into a single video that would be fine.

Have any masters to partner with in New Jersey?I'd love to work live

Some statements there are very questionable:
- Rider stance is an awful choice for the sword combat, please do not use it as there is no advantage whatsoever
- SAI strike - first of all no matter how hard you strike with the sword - you don't want to finish your strike deep in the back far beyond your center body line as depicted. It is ok stance for the combat start when distance between fighters is still big but not when you finished your strike and now your opponent has right of way and doing counter attack. But most important - there is no reason to do powerful chops with lightsaber, neither in star wars world nor here - lightsaber is the light weapon, and tournament rules forbids powerful strikes
- thrusts - are also forbidden by tournament rules due to multiple reasons

For a peek behind the scenes: today at 4 pm EST.

https://youtu.be/sVgqAEY2wN8

We teach lightsaber combat and are the only certified partners of the FFE in the US. Some techniques are not allowed or useful in the French system but still highly useful in combat.

With TPLA, you can develop those skills and learn the rules and applications of the French system that was created by one of our Knights.

certification etc. doesn't matter, rider stance is still awful for the sword combat as well as moving your sword faaaar back after the strike, this is what your opponent would like to see in combat to have unprotected body for the strike

Rey style "combat skills"

Come on man. Am I misunderstanding what's going on here, or are you, at this point, coming into someone's topic and arguing with them, claiming you have the objective truth and reality of combat? If you're talking about in-universe lightsaber fighting, then powerful strikes can of course have a place, either to try to overpower an opponent, or against someone with lightsaber-resistant armor.

You may also wish to refresh yourself on the TOS for these forums as you're approachong that thin red line…

If you ddon't ike it…read another thread.

No, man, you misunderstood, I agreed with some posts as well.
But here, yes, some questionable statements.

Physics and biomechanics are universal, yes.
And by the way, through history there were plenty of powerful strikes described without moving your blade behind the back by inertia, this is just bad for you to remove blade between your body and your death. A lot of techniques are actually tailored for this type of overcommitments by your opponent

What rule did I break?)
It's not about what I like, it is about open discussion what is usefull or realistic and what is not, at least in this subforum this is pretty important discussion, don't you think?

You literally said “there is no reason to do powerful chops with a lightsaber…”

That’s just not true in-universe. At all.

This isn’t the first thread, or probably even the second, you’ve come in and masqueraded your personal opinions as the sole, objective, irrefutable reality.

And there are plenty of martial arts where some sword strikes can finish/carry a fair bit past the centerline of your body. Again, don’t pretend that your given style of swordsmanship is the only true or valid one.

Peace. Let me elaborate a bit.

First and foremost: let's keep the discussion of our online training program and the French ruleset seperate. Our curriculum is built around real world martial arts techniques and is designed to enable even someone with no sword experience to learn some basics.  This curriculum is not designed to fit the ruleset ... it is designed to develop a fundamental skillset for swordsmanship, which you can then use to enter a competition system like the French ruleset. Learn to walk first before you start to run.

But even within the ruleset, there is a difference between applying powerful strikes like Sai, which is totally legal, and use of excessive force, which is forbidden.

For a beginner, it is necessary to build up the body mechanics for powerful strikes, too. As has already been said: there are many appliances in and out of the ruleset for that. Shii-Cho, as we see it, is designed to work on a battlefield, not in a 1 on 1 duel. Thus, there are obstacles to smash, droids to slash and multiple opponents to be defeated, who will employ force on you and your lightsaber.

To train these strikes without a partner, so without making contact with a body or a blade, it is helpful to build up your muscle memory to train these strikes in the full arc and it is done so in various systems. I encountered it in HEMA longsword.

While I agree that the position you criticise can be a disadvantage in closer range if you hold it: it is not meant to be a stationary position there. You can use the power of the strike, in case you missed, to do a quick follow-up just moving through this position.

When you have destroyed the obstacle in your way with a Sai and have a fair distance to your next target, this position is useful, as for example the high guard which also has the tip of the blade pointing backwards, because your next strike is already 'armed'. As you said: it is a starting position in various systems.

So it all is a question of context and a matter of how to train your body to do certain things. Once it can, you can think about useful and not so useful contexts to apply these things.

If you are interested in how we apply the dewback rider stance (horse stance) to see how we think it can be useful, check out our Shii-Cho Sarlacc Sweep Acceleration (Cho variant) and our Ataru rotations (especially the En Su Ma) as examples how this stance is useful in generating power and turning.

ok, I shouldn't mention in-universe case, agree, let's remove it from the plate as my interest is fully in real life combat. Hard to elaborate what should be done in imaginary world during imaginary cases.

But let me ask you then - do you have any real arguments against mine? you are constantly attacking person but not the argument, which is wrong imho

Thank you for the answer, appreciate
Powerful strike can not be done without excessive force, fast strike - yes, but not powerful by definition, you need power which is synonym of strength in our case
But again, if we talk HEMA as an real life example - I don't recall any suggestion to finish your strike deep in the back, this is against all principals to be protected by the sword between you an your opponent. You can bring tip of the sword behind the back, true, but not entire sword, too many disadvantage with no advantage whatsoever (besides starting stance which is different from strike over commitment).

When you have destroyed the obstacle in your way with a Sai - so this is in-universe teaching, not real life? Because there is no obstacle to be removed by lightsaber in real life besides opponent which brings us to my statement about excessive force.

Regarding rider stance, let me just give arguments against:
- proper lunge is not possible in rider stance, cornerstone of western fencing
- not possible to slide leg back from the attacker sword (as second leg will remain on the same position\level due to stance) you remove one leg but second are still there on the same distance from attacker - key technique to protect leg and create counterattack opportunity in many fencing disciplines and even MAs like muay thai
- removes your mobility due to bended parallel knees, only short distance slow steps are possible from it
- imbalance - with proper fencing stances - you can shift your weight back and force between your legs, but rider stance? very static and vulnerable for any imbalance actions. There is no place for static stance in ultra-dynamic sword combat
- shorter reach - your are killing 30-40 centimeters of reach due to fully parallel stance comparing to 30-45 degree fencing stances

That is why you will not see it a lot (if any) during real fencing combats.
Second opinion regarding the same:
horse stance in kendo discussion - https://www.reddit.com/r/kendo/comments/4dv8yy/q_horseriding_stance_in_kendo/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/kendo/comments/4dv8yy/q_horseriding_stance_in_kendo/)
And about both issues by shadiversity - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irvU09MM-l4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irvU09MM-l4)

etc etc etc

Ok, so you're talking "real life combat" that is focused on point sparring, which most sword/saber combat today is, of course. Because most things applicable to in-universe fighting would be at least somewhat relevant to real-life combat with the intention of incapacitating an opponent. If an opponent has a fair amount of protection/armor on, and your goal is to win a "fight/duel," not "just" to score points by making any level of contact, delivering a great deal of force and/or overpowering an opponent is a viable strategy. There's more than one way to  skin a cat. But this still doesn't mean that someone who trains for point sparring can't also train for techniques that would be useful for more "uncivilized" or "uncontrolled" duels, where more force can be useful.

SirLiftaLot and mrg149.... are you guys going to submit your videos for review this week? I'd love to see some new students welcomed into the clans!

Yes I am! I just recorded it today actually, since I wanted to get something in broad daylight as opposed to a darker environment to better show more detail, even if the lightsaber itself doesn’t look as bright/real.

Excellent! I hope I get a chance to see it.

Good call on the daytime video. I always record my videos in daylight, too. I think, for me, it's more important to display quality/understanding of movement rather than a glowy blade. My saber usually doesn't even have batteries in it.  ;D

I don't know if there are any Instructors or Apprentices local to that area specifically, but NJ looks like it's right between NY and MI, which puts you somewhat in proximity to Ithaca Sabers (NY) and TPLA HQ (MI) so I wouldn't be surprised if you found somebody close by! But, that being said, the online material with the assistance from instructors, once you're accepted as a student (SUBMIT YOUR VIDEO!) and interaction with other students through the TPLA Clan structure, will give you plenty of material to train and progress with should you decide to take the plunge. I've been a distance learner with TPLA for about a year and a half and it's been a thoroughly enriching and enjoyable experience. I hope to see you in the clans!

Haha. You raise some good points for sure. I tend to practice and film things in daylight when I'm learning and to check my form, and then when I want to share something, I usually do it in lower-light conditions to be more visually appealing to most people. My background is Taekwondo, but I'm admittedly years out of formal practice. Mostly just weapons practice the last few years. Lost some flexibility when I got more into lifting weights. But balance is coming to merge strength and flexibility.

Anyway, here's my video below. If you need me to upload and/or send it differently, just let me know. The first minute or so is the actual saberstaff practice/form/etc., and then the next thirty seconds or so is just some even more exotic lightsaber fun, and a little bit of an opportunity to use my TKD background with lightsabers that I made custom. The ground where the staff work was done is incredibly uneven, but that makes it a more dynamic experience I suppose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5rO7iCwNCg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5rO7iCwNCg#)

This looks great, SirLiftaLot! Please email this video to TPLA at [email protected] between August 23rd and August 30th for consideration. I'm sure you'll be accepted as a student!

Good luck and MTFBWY!!!!

looks like iI'll iss the deadline as I'm currently on vacay and when I get back it's back to teaching :-( So I won't have time to spare. I am not sure what I'd record anyhow besides me just holding my glowbat and randomly swinging it around like the noob I am. :-) I'm still just trying to figure out if I want tpla or just learn stage combat or flow art.

The best way for your submission is the following:

Register on our forum:

https://tplalxforum.boards.net

Comment in the 'student roster' in the general section of the forum and tell us why you want to join TPLA. We will then open your personal training thread where you can submit your videos.

ive done weapon martial arts for years, and ive been practicing forms VI and V the most, but I have a relative knowledge of the others too, however I'm not sure where to begin when it comes to dueling, as most people I've "dueled" with have been during kendo and Sai-mech (like dual wielding, but with kamas), so they haven't really been able to help me practice forms, since they didnt know them. Any advice for me?

I've actually been wondering if this is still an active organization....