Saber Forum

How functional would a quick release be on a saber staff in a dual. Is it pretty sturdy and will I have to worry with an unwanted seperation.

I have one on my main staff. It's sturdy. The two hilts to rotate, but it's nothing you don't notice in a fight. If anything it's actually not the easiest thing to disconnect mid fight, and even less so to reconnect. I've had one accidental disconnect, mid swing my opponent hit my hilt, and sent one of them flying. That's 1 time in over 200 fights with it now, so I think it was a bit of a fluke. Can been see in this video about 30 seconds in. I recommend it so you can switch back and froth from staff to dual wield between fights without a headache, but in fight it's not the most practical thing. Possible, but not practical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMzIiEOzXYM

Thank you looks stable enough.

I am by no means a pro with it, but it is sturdy enough to use. I haven't had it separate without permission yet, but I also don't duel a whole lot. People like Darth Cephalus, RyanG83Jkd, and I think Samhain138 all use it and have gotten very good with it. I would talk to them and see what they think.

I must agree with Taegin Roan.

I'm surprised there's documented evidence of it happening accidentally  :o

It's a quick disconnect in the sense that you don't have to take a couple minutes unscrewing a coupler to get two sabers. It's not a quick disconnect in the sense that you can easily disconnect it in mid combat without your opponent noticing.

The sabers do rotate, as Mimiaga said, though I think he should have said "it's not something you do notice in a fight" or "it's something you don't notice in a fight."

It works fine for combat, the only issue I have with it is one of personal taste. I prefer that the pommels on my sabers be the same diameter as the saber hilt, and one side of the disconnect (necessarily) isn't. Again, it works great, that's just a personal perference thing on my end.

Th was my first time out with it too, crazy odds.

And yes, poorly worded. The rotation isn't noticed in combat.

This is about my only issue with it. Other than that, I love it.

Thank you all for the info I will pick one up and see how it treats me. This will be my first time training with a saber staff.

Cool. It makes sense since in star Wars Legends, a Sith would seperate the two blades during combat to surprises their enemy, such as kas'im did with Darth Bane during their duel on Lehon.

I use the QRC for sparring from time to time. When I first got it, I didn't tell anyone and surprised my sparring partner. I"d suggest mastering the disconnect before just going in. Disconnection = very very easy. Reconnect during combat = difficult.

Typically you have to create some space to reconnect....that being said, I prefer two sabers over the saber staff personally.

Awesome! My girlfriend pulled off the quick disconnect in a sparring match. The other fighter was really confused, and he actually got hit with it.

Quick Surprise Coupler!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txpuET_HC9s

Woah. Some of the sounds in that video sound like the ones from The Force Unleashed. Found a zip file full of those a while ago.

I pulled them off of youtube, some are even those used US sound fonts.

There is no lateral slipping with the quick disconnect.  Those hilts are held securely in place and only move rotationally (relative to each other, of course).

Where you might notice it is when spinning and doing forms, or especially when turning it on and off (when the switches don't line up).  Even for display purposes, they don't freely spin and only rotate when your hands apply pressure on them, so you can display them just fine, but if you want them to always line up during a photo shoot or a demonstration, then the adjustable coupler is probably better for those purposes.

I've tried a few different couplers, and I love the QD.  I don't use it in the moment, but I use it to quickly combine sabers to make a staff between sessions.

Such an epic moment in a fight. That is the reason I wanted it in the first place, practice has to make perfect... "Through Passion, I Gain Strength."

I know I mentioned it to you, but here's a quick video of my accidentally activating the QR coupler while spinning the staff with one hand. Quite a quick release indeed!

https://i.imgur.com/4mZ6IL4.mp4

Granted, I think it's MUCH likely to happen in actual combat* than free-spinning, as strange as that sounds.

*assuming you spar using a predominantly two-handed approach, which most staff users will (so not like Exar Kun). As I think I mentioned earlier, when you have both hands on the staff, neither hand is resting entirely or solely on the coupler, so the odds of engaging it are low by my estimation. However, when you have only one hand on the staff, it's dead-center, holding mostly/only the coupler, as the coupler is a bit wider than body of the hilt. So if you happen to be spinning it with one hand and get it just right so the direction/momentum of the rotation pushes the coupler the right way as your hand is holding the coupler, it can potentially engage it.

I will admit my form was sloppy and clunky at the time this happened, as I had just gotten the saber and was just trying to get the feel for how it moved, but I can still say I think it's possible, even if not exactly likely, to happen if you do a lot of spins using the staff as a one-handed weapon.

Glad you did show that to me. I believe I can understand how it happened with grip and hand adjustments mixed with momentum of saber. It was like a "perfect storm" of movement coming together to create the necessary "pulling" motion to disconnect. I suppose being mindful of that could avoid it happening or reduce it's likely hood. Most reviews/ comments on it's use state how unlikely it is, but this will make me start out extra carefully in that regard. And I'll likely take your advice to follow my initial thoughts and buy a backup "standard staff coupler" since I foresee myself doing the same thing at some point. But speaking of points, guess the bright side is in unofficial sparring you probably would have scored a very interesting point if a opponent was in front of you just then.

That could have been a very unique point. In that event, it would have been a surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one. I do agree it was the "perfect storm" of events, and if you're being cautious about it, is really unlikely to happen. I honestly don't see it happening with any move other than the one I showed in the video, which really isn't something I think you'd be doing too much sparring wise, assuming you're using the staff with two hands, not as a one-handed weapon. And I do think that the activation could be avoided with that move if you're cognizant of the potential for it to happen, which I don't think I was really considering before it happened.

I do want to try some more things with the QR coupler, since I do love how easy it is to separate with it, which makes storage easier, as well as enables different styles of use, etc.

Thinking about it, nothing in the two forms I've posted so far would really even come close to having the potential to activate the coupler, so I suppose I should try it with some forms and see how I like it, since it's a really cool feature to have.

No I really do envision myself doing exactly the kind of move you did in practice. Given the right situation, and especially one handed. Potentially before switching hands/grips.

And yes, I really do think it could be useful in a functional and tactical way "on the fly" with enough practice. With a fluid and graceful approach, as long as one doesn't over think it and slow their movements. That's a goal for sure.

Ah, I had forgotten our earlier discussion. Yeah, if you plan on using it one-handed, then that movement is probably inevitable. And you do bring up a good point about it being a good transition between hands/grips. I'm sure if you're cognizant of it, it can be avoided the overwhelming majority of the time, as it seems like people with much more experience using it than I do say as much through experience. But I am glad to have gotten it happening on video, so that others can see that it is a possibility, and, knowing how it can happen, can seek to avoid it happening themselves.

I think I may play around with what moves lend themselves well to leading into a quick release. Not that I'm any good using two sabers, but still, it seems like a good option to have regardless.

Edit/Update: excuse the super slow form and limited range of motion, but I wanted to try some things out in a small area indoors real quick with the QR coupler, and I think I really like it:
https://i.imgur.com/GjUrlrP.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/Jb0ZplW.mp4

It looks like it's pretty easy to separate out of a stabbing motion, with the lead hand up or down (it'll just change the way you're holding the saber in that hand). You just have to know which way the staff/coupler is oriented, so you know to push or pull on it. I'd definitely like to see if it's that easy at faster speeds with more complete range of motion.

So I put on the QR coupler and did some forms and spins, and it stayed on. So that helped restore some confidence in it. Plus I was able to do this with it:
https://i.imgur.com/IPZui6f.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/cgRwAvh.mp4

So long as you know which way the coupler is oriented, so you know to push or pull, it's actually pretty easy to activate with the rear hand while stabbing forward with the front hand, as that motion will naturally help to separate them. If you can orient it so the coupler is activated by pulling back, it make separating them quite simple. Putting them back together, however, is another story entirely, and not something I have really attempted as part of a combination of moves.

In the first videos it was hard for me to tell you were going to disconnect prior to the action, which is obviously helpful in true sparring. Not having a "tell" would make it a great ambush technique. It would also be really cool to see 2 people who both have QR couplers and trained to use them like this do a choreographed fight that's Sith vs Jedi. It would look like they were using the Force to read each other's movements, or the Force brought them together in a duel of fate. Especially if they killed each other in the end, a bit poetic about the balance of the Force and them both being too dangerous?

Reattaching would be the trickier (and possibly harder to hide) action. But possibly more useful to you if you're more comfortable with a staff. Suggestions I can think of are keeping your hand that "triggered the disconnect" firm in place on the hilt through a few moves. Then that tension could possibly keep the coupler ready to reattach on the fly. If not, training that hand to do the top to bottom "squeezing" motion necessary to put it back together. Although this is purely speculation and theory since I haven't received mine to play around with yet. Glad to see someone else as excited about this as me, it's helping flesh out the ideas I had and wanted to implement. Sadly this kind of surprise technique would really only work on an opponent who doesn't know you fight this way, and likely just once in that case.

That would make for a very unique choreographed fight. I like that.

I'm thinking that maybe I put some identifying marker on one side of the staff (maybe some black wrap on the choke point closest to the blade on one side), to indicate at a quick glance which side is forward, so I know how to manipulate the coupler to separate the sabers during combat. Either that or some sort of different tactile thing on one of the hilts that would serve the same purpose. I suppose having two different colored blades would be the most obvious and visible option, but I like the blue.

I do agree that coupling it back is the challenge, but as you said, it sounds like this is more of a trick technique to catch an unsuspecting opponent off guard, so if I were to be point sparing, I suppose it would be more of a risky gambit to try to land a quick point than anything, as I am much more proficient with the staff than two sabers. Although if someone was equally, or close to equally, proficient with either option, then it could be more of a consistent tool, and also perhaps an option to try to adapt to an opponent's form of combat mid-fight.

I do agree that I could practice squeezing/pushing/pulling/whatever the coupler down to prepare the other end of the staff to reattach, but we will see how viable it is. I'm going to assume it won't be as seamless as detaching them, but maybe if I can create a bit of space that would be sufficient to get it done with some practice. It is fairly stiff to push down, and doesn't have a ton of grab-able area with one hand, which is a good thing for everything except this.

And I am also glad to have someone to bounce ideas off of and discuss possibilities and experiments with.

You already have your saber, but in a different one somebody could (by design) construct one with obvious variations to the user. One hilt side having emitter windows and the other without. Or one being an LE silver on black with the other flat black in the same model. Varying the AV switch colors in the same way, one silver one black (thinking more of Dark Side looking lightsabers, haha)

For you solutions might lie in things you messed with already visually. At high speed a variation in the O rings you used might be harder to perceive, so instead all red on one side and all black on other hilt. Or copper on one hilt but not the other. This could be less visually appealing to you in the imbalance it creates, so instead keep them alternating (like your last post of that design) on the detached side. But make the top 11/21 black and the bottom 10/21 red? This might be harder to see since your hands might cover the rings too much in action. Although these are the best of what I can offer off the top of my head.

Exactly. If you were to build a staff with the intention of knowing which side is which, you brought up a lot of good options. Thanks for the ideas!

I am not sure if it's exactly what you're saying, but perhaps even just switching the order of the "stripes" on one side, so one saber remains as-is, with 3 black rings on the top and bottom, while the other can instead have 3 red rings on the top and bottom. In other words, one side would go (Black, Red, Black, Red, Black, Red, Black) and the other one would go (Red, Black, Red, Black, Red, Black, Red). This would keep them more or less the same looking at a glance to most people, and keep the striped alternating aesthetic I like, while still hopefully being obvious enough to me, as long as either the top or bottom most rings are visible.

But the copper wrap on one side like you mentioned could also work, perhaps in addition to the above idea, that way there is a visual indication of which side is forwards regardless of if I'm holding the staff towards the front (where the choke point is) or towards the back (where the o-rings are). Or if I don't want the copper color on one of the choke points I have, I can perhaps try some black wrap that serves the same purpose, since three colors may be enough as-is.

Or I do have a lot of extra o-rings, so assuming the choke point has the same diameter as the areas the o-rings are on, I could try covering one of the entire choke points with red and the other with black. This may also help cut down on some of the sharp angles and ridges that can cut into the hands at times.

So I went and switched the o-rings on either side of the emitter windows on one of the sabers from black to red, and it does work when I'm just looking at them in decent light, but when I turn on the sabers, they become essentially indistinguishable from each other, so it doesn't really serve the intended purpose, but I think I like the look of the slight difference in the two, so I may keep it that way. I suppose anything relating to something as simple as the color or position of a few o-rings may not be easily discernable in low-light conditions, so perhaps either some black wrap around the front-most choke points on one end of the staff would be more easily identifiable, especially if the wrap had a slightly different tactile feel too. Perhaps that would be ideal.

No updates on making one side of the staff identifiable from the other, but I did work a little bit of Jar'Kai to the combination after separating the staff into two sabers.

Sort version:
https://i.imgur.com/ahn4vDe.mp4

Same thing with some lead-up into it:
https://i.imgur.com/adkThBT.mp4

Separating the sabers out of a stab seems to be pretty doable, but bringing them back together is still proving to be more challenging. Here is my best attempt so far at it:
https://i.imgur.com/4RtMuE8.mp4

Yea that looks like a good base for assault, surprise attack confusing opponent trying for a point, if unsuccessful using deflecting spins and back peddling while creating distance, then using a 1.5 second window to reconnect and renew assault. None too shabby, pretty sound execution from my viewpoint.

Thank you. The back peddling and deflecting spins are defensive in nature as you said, but also that entire time I am manipulating the coupler to get it ready to reconnect the sabers. I continue the spins until I feel the coupler is ready, and then attempt to connect them. It's not perfect, and doesn't always work, but it is a nice option to have, and more practice should help smooth it out.

I am thinking that if I could have ANY QR coupler design, regardless of price or even if it's truly feasible, I'd want one of the two ends to have a strong magnet, and the other end to be attracted to it. With the press of a button, it would deactivate, or at least significantly weaken the magnet, allowing the two staffs to be pulled apart, and then, when you want to reattach them, you place them together and press the button again to activate the magnet to hold them in place.

The closest thing I've found so far is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hnpmG6dLFU&feature=youtu.be# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hnpmG6dLFU&feature=youtu.be#)
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MJ-150 (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MJ-150)

Which is a magnet that can be turned off and/or weakened with a switch. However, that switch is on the back of the magnet, which would not work for a coupler. It would have to be on the side of the magnet, but even then, a big knob like that in the middle of the staff would be quite cumbersome for normal use. Ideally I'd like to have a switch or button that lays much flatter than that, but it would have to be done in a way as not be be accidentally engaged, of course.

Yep, I do my best to dissect what I see in the movements and attempt interpreting the intent. Trying to read you as if I might be "the opponent" on occasion, for attack patterns and openings. The more I visualize the ebb and flow of combat solo, potential moves and counter moves of a "shadow opponent" the better; seeing them in my possible openings and parrying, evading, reciprocating my best attacks. I love to be my own worst enemy if I lack a training partner. Even many years later I remember moves that led to my defeat, trying to integrate or counteract them.

I'd also thought a magnet based coupler might be great for it's ease of use potentially, the likely problem being shielding the internal components of the hilt closest to the ends from the effects of the magnet(s) as well. Too strong and you could mess up wires or fry circuits even (I'm fairly certain), but too weak and you run the risk of your lightsaber flying apart during a move generating too much force. That'd be tricky to design indeed. Although, the type of magnet you've shown could be integrated into a "specially designed coupler" in theory! That's how I assumed the QR worked at first, like in the book. In this example/prototype you'd rotate one of the saber hilts (lets say 90 degrees clockwise), that'd "weaken" the magnet pull as shown. Then simply fit them back together and rotate 90 degrees counterclockwise to reestablish your connection. With long enough hilts you could probably find a way to shield or distance the magnetic internal components too. I'd wager a stunt saber (with no sound board to damage/fry) might be easiest to make a working model.

You raise some very good points and ideas. Perhaps if I ever do try to go down this route I may try it with just some PVC or aluminum pipes with the proposed magnetic coupler on the ends/pommels, just to see how feasible it is, both in terms of stability when solid as well as ease of separating and rejoining. If that did work out, protecting saber internals would be the next hurdle to consider, but only if the design clears the first hurdle of course.

Ha, more power to you. If you patent the design don't forget to kick me some miniscule royalty for brainstorming with you. Although all jokes aside money is worthless to me in comparison to a bit of notoriety, infamy is just fine as long as I know I helped advance the craft. Finances are boring, but inspiring technical evolution is exciting. People put so much emphasis on money, when even after death (when money serves no purpose) being "that guy" who was in the background and "sparked an idea" that led to some revolutionary concept... that has meaning even if nobody knows it. Creation for the sake of creation is a reoccurring theme with Sith Lords so I guess it makes sense in that light. Especially since I'm involved in weapons development or combat technique/theory most of the time when working with you. Bet the Jedi Council would love that one, my persona would likely get yours exiled for heresy. I can be such a nerd but it keeps me laughing.

If this would be the straw that broke the camel's back in my exile from the order, then so be it. I try not to be too rigid. In Star Wars terms, I suppose you could call it being open to going where the force guides me. If that direction is out of the Order, then it is out of the order. In the words of Bruce Lee, who would have been one hell of a Jedi (assuming he wasn't exiled from the order for being too untraditional) "notice that the stiffest tree is most easily cracked, while the bamboo or willow survives by bending with the wind."

And nothing wrong with being a nerd. I am most assuredly a nerd as well.

Added some gaffer tape to the two choke points on one of the two hilts. This serves the purpose of helping me to identify which side of the staff is forwards, so I can know which way to manipulate the coupler to separate the staffs. The two black portions should be fairly visible even with the blades on, and there's also a tactile difference where the tape is, so it seems I could also be able to feel which side is which by the presence or absence of this tape/grip texture.

The good thing about gaffer tape is that it is not supposed to leave any residue when removed, yet is also designed to be strong and durable, which should make it perfect for this application.

I also think it looks pretty sweet.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wl8dCEq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s4uqPvS.jpg)

Another potential way to make a coupler, which was brought to my mind by DarthProdigal's mentioning of twisting the sabers to activate the coupler, would be something akin to the way Ironmaster dumbbells work.

They are a variation on your standard spinlock adjustable dumbbells that lets you change the weight on dumbbells quickly. If you look at the image below:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVFj0NAJs5hx_t-QgXbmJf_zlBiqzo_YRHLg&usqp=CAU)

You can see the basic principles of how it works. Instead of a fully threaded screw that you'd have to screw in the entire way, which would take WAY too long for saber combat, you simply stick the partially threaded pin into the hole, and then rotate it in such a way that the portion of the screw that is threaded now lock into the part of the hole that is also threaded, which effectively locks them in place. From there, you'd twist them sufficiently to disengage the threads, allowing them to be pulled apart.

You can see the partially threaded screws here:
(https://samsfitness.com.au/image/cache/catalog/IMDBHANDLE/ironmaster-screws-quick-lock-dumbbells-800x800.jpg)

You can see how they show the necessary rotation to engage or disengage the locked position.

The partially threaded rod will only go into the hole if it is lined up properly with the threading in the hollow portion. See video at the following timestamp:
http://youtu.be/POagJigPc_Q?t=656 (http://youtu.be/POagJigPc_Q?t=656)

Once the rod is slid in, you then have to rotate it sufficiently to lock it in place. I'm reading it has to be rotated to not be within 10:00 and 2:00 of the lined-up position, which means that you have to rotate it at least 60 degrees, so a 90 degree rotation should be plenty sufficient. See below image:
(https://www.garage-gyms.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/ironmaster-quick-lock-dumbbells-review-the-locking-pin-close.jpg)

One issue I see with this is perhaps the length of the threaded rod making it a bit cumbersome to insert, although I don't know how long it actually has to be. The dumbbell threaded rod is so long to allow it to hold many plates. I could check to see what the maximum plate thickness they recommend is to see exactly how much thread they say is the least they'd run. Getting it to line up to insert it may also be a slight issue, but you can likely just rotate it around until it works, so I'd imagine this may still be simpler than trying to hold down the QR coupler while attempting to insert it while keeping it held down with one hand as I do now.

Still, no fancy magnets required. May be worth looking in to perhaps?

I'll need to look at the video and dynamics of that bolt system in relation to potential physics concerns. The length of bolt required being likely directly proportional to the potential force(s) it has to endure. Much like the strength of magnet required also relates to this. Generated force from velocity in spinning, vibration concerns in accidentally disengaging the connection slowly, similar vibrations or force from clashing/impacts sparring, subconscious or conscious actions and reactions in movement and hand placement resulting from opponent actions. These things would have to be considered and field tested, but still unseen things or degradation over time could still occur. I have no idea what the "expected life" of a QR coupler is, and is likely based highly on it's owner's use. I'd have to ask some of the long running users how they endure 3-5 years after purchase and extensive use. The idea's we've come up with might ironically serve someone less apt to use these QR variants in ways we'd intend. More so for simpler stage combat (in very controlled ways), pure cosplay fun, or display pieces. Under the savagery of practice combat closer to "full impact"/blade clash sparring or intense movements in extended drills/ filming video they might not hold up as long. But yes, that is a potentially good idea in the making. Just requiring a degree of technical excellence to develop and technique to use.

You raise good points as usual. I also do not know what the expected life of the actual US QR couplers is. While sparring would have the potential to damage it the fastest or most severely, perhaps much more frequent use in practice/exhibition could also start to wear it down over the years? But it seems pretty robust, so I'd think it should hold up for a while.

But you may be right, in that these alternate ideas may serve for quicker or more seamless transitions for exhibition purposes, but may not hold up to repeated high-impact sparring, where a trade-off of speed for security and durability is worthwhile.

So it seems that rotating the staffs a bit while trying to separate or join them helps a bit.

It certainly would be useful in battle, then you could switch your styles up more easily and better surprise your opponents, which in combat is key. Observing your opponent is also a key part of it.

I agree completely! In training I tend to keep that going so as to not give away when I will disconnect, or to try and not be "static/stationary" while separating thus telegraphing and creating a big opening in my defense. I do enjoy the helpful ability to keep visual awareness of which direction my coupler is facing with separate blade colors too, especially throughout the spinning and attacking movements. But what you're talking about can even help if you fail to disconnect or reconnect properly on the first attempt. So you're not just standing there struggling, or looking confused like "oops that didn't work, uh oh!" I have too much fun with the QR coupler even if it's not always the most practical thing.