Title: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 12, 2011, 01:28:52 PM Hi guys !
So, as I'm still working on my light-naginata project, I think it is good for some persons to see how a fight between this weapon and a casual saber looks like. This video was performed by one of my sensei's at the Japan Expo... Enjoy ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEl1yuNTbSw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEl1yuNTbSw#) Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Artorius Vidnyl on December 12, 2011, 01:34:35 PM Hebi! Great to hear from you! Can't wait to see how your light-naginata turns out. Will it have the traditional curved blade? Or will it be more of a light-yari? I'm really looking forward to this! (Mostly because nobody cares about combat around here any more).
Come back soon! Cheers. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Kham-Ryn Kurios on December 12, 2011, 02:18:17 PM Hebi! Great to hear from you! Can't wait to see how your light-naginata turns out. Will it have the traditional curved blade? Or will it be more of a light-yari? I'm really looking forward to this! (Mostly because nobody cares about combat around here any more). Come back soon! Cheers. That is not true! lol ;D I really want to see the finished product. Also point for posting the video. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: SOTJ on December 12, 2011, 04:15:52 PM Hebi! Great to hear from you! Can't wait to see how your light-naginata turns out. Will it have the traditional curved blade? Or will it be more of a light-yari? I'm really looking forward to this! (Mostly because nobody cares about combat around here any more). Come back soon! Cheers. I agree with Kham! The main reason I'm on here is because US are the Combat Lightsaber Specialists ;D Anyways, I'm really looking forward to seeing the light naginata. I looooove naginata! So much fun to use. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 12, 2011, 04:26:01 PM Well, good to see so much enthousiasm !
It is true that the reason I came here first was to obtain sabers suitable for fighting with. About my naginata, as it will be my first production, I will probably stick to a straight blade... I'll made another one with a curved blade -^ And optic fibers inside, for the light to follow the curve. But the length of the hilt and of the blade will be the same as on my Shiai-Yo Naginata, so I'll be able to train with at my club. Problems I am encountering : how to stick the blade into the stick without damaging the aspect and solidity, and how to put the electronics inside... (also, what electronics to chose, and THAT is one of my greatest problems) Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 12, 2011, 05:12:02 PM A longer grip blade is much preferred for me!
I have been mulling over the design aspects for the same, myself. The standard naginata has a 1:2.5 to 1:4 blade to staff length. I worked with the full length wooden one for some time, much like this one (http://www.naginata.org/images/longnaginata.jpg) But an opportunity to use a broken one seemed to fit me better, much closer to this size or 1:1 blade to hilt...like this scale (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uAtywmY5zwA/Tdou_q3H0TI/AAAAAAAAAzc/uKmtAfLChAk/s1600/Naginata.jpg) (http://www.kingofswords.com/images/Hand%20Forged%20Naginata%20Warrior%20Sword%2054.jpg) (http://www.swordsswords.com/ProductImages/s/Japanese_Infantry_Handmade_Battle_Worn_Naginata.jpg) (http://www.kingofswords.com/images/A46-BK1345.jpg) I am liking this Lord of the Rings High elf two handed style...the high curve hilt but a straight blade for now (http://www.kormax.com/images/UC1373.jpg) Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 12, 2011, 05:26:45 PM Problems I am encountering : how to stick the blade into the stick without damaging the aspect and solidity, and how to put the electronics inside... (also, what electronics to chose, and THAT is one of my greatest problems) Hebi This is going to be the issue. I would consider using a long run of fiber optics as you mention with the light emitter at the base. A groove to inset the optical cable along the length...perhaps fine cord or heavy thread wrap along the length (make a simple lathe with a power drill on sloooooow and it will feed itself...take about 4-5 minutes)...then any power units on your person with a removable power clip or at the base. The advantage of extending the electronics is there is not much room in most naginata blade connection points and the impacts will be more dramatic due to the length and snap inertia. Sounds like fun. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Bluespike74 on December 12, 2011, 05:53:24 PM Once you get it finished, I would love to see a video of a fight involving a regular light saber and yours. I love weapons and love to see things that I do not usually get to see. Thanks for posting and keep us updated.
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 12, 2011, 06:22:50 PM I would like to see it also ;D
I am going to build mine, for sure...but there are no other players around me. Being in Texas is not enough...this is a huge state, you do not realize how large until it takes nearly 8hrs one way to get Dallas for me and that is not even a wide stretch. I will have to recruit some fellow saber types. On a side note, does Ultra offer any group purchase discounts? I think their prices are good, just asking. I maybe able to get handful, 5-6, with my martial arts connections. It would be fun. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: ed_ification on December 12, 2011, 06:53:31 PM I had asked about possible group discounts for a friend's upcoming marriage (before that idea got shot down). Anyhow, if you email Ultrasabers, they will give you more information directly. I would post the response I got, but the policy may have changed since I asked, and I don't want to give bad info.
The naginata idea sounds interesting. How large do you plan to make the blade in comparison to the staff/hilt? And with the need to have the blade be hollow to accept the light from the LED, will the thickness of the blade throw off the weapon at all? Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Jammo on December 12, 2011, 06:57:07 PM See that?
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/jodie0616/yari.jpg?t=1323715915) 'Tis the Ultra Yari. Similar in style of combat in its half staff form, I guess. The first thing you have to do is come to terms with the reach. The best thing I can tell you is to stop its movement and try to get inside its arcs, and that's still iffy depending on your weapons, plus I like to show fake gaps with my Yari to try to lure an unsuspecting duelist in. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: ed_ification on December 12, 2011, 07:12:14 PM For some reason I had an idea of a spear-like blade, rather than saber style. Wonder why my brain went there.
And the yari looks pretty excellent! The reach on that has to be impressive, not to mention the bracing power one would get being able to keep one's hands further apart. That's one thing I really enjoy about the Dark War Glaive - and the hilt on that is TINY by comparison to your yari. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 13, 2011, 05:23:12 AM ([url]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/jodie0616/yari.jpg?t=1323715915[/url]) Close to the size I was considering...perhaps that minus 8-10" on the staff/hilt section. Cool stuff. Have you considered wrapping with cord or thread to break up all that brown? Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 13, 2011, 12:30:13 PM So, I had a look on the internet
I founded optic fibers, so I'll be able to buy some. For the Blade, I was thinking of using a TCSS blade, or one from US, but I don't know how to curve it ! For the electronics, I think I'll buy a TCSS kit : http://www.ultrasabers.com/Build-Your-Own-Seoul-P4-Electronics-Kit-P469.aspx (http://www.ultrasabers.com/Build-Your-Own-Seoul-P4-Electronics-Kit-P469.aspx) And, about the naginata I am using currently, it is this one : http://www.ninecircles.co.uk/Wooden_Weapons__Shinai/Jo,_Bo__Naginata/Shiai_Yo_Naginata_-_225cm.aspx (http://www.ninecircles.co.uk/Wooden_Weapons__Shinai/Jo,_Bo__Naginata/Shiai_Yo_Naginata_-_225cm.aspx) Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Jammo on December 13, 2011, 02:39:35 PM Close to the size I was considering...perhaps that minus 8-10" on the staff/hilt section. Cool stuff. Have you considered wrapping with cord or thread to break up all that brown? Tricking it out is on my to do list, actually... Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 13, 2011, 03:01:27 PM I founded optic fibers, so I'll be able to buy some. For the Blade, I was thinking of using a TCSS blade, or one from US, but I don't know how to curve it ! I would think to use the fiber optics to create the blade. Shape it. Weave the blade with heavy thread or light cord. Then set the form with silicone. Or something like that. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 14, 2011, 05:37:07 PM Nop, I won't do something like that... And that for a simple reason : I'm going to use it against other naginata, the ones we use at the club. And try to block with a silicone blade... (it works better with silicone boobs, I think ;) )
Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 15, 2011, 12:50:16 AM Silicone rubber...not the gel ::)
It would bend and flex just like firm rubber. Like the clear silicone of a dive mask (http://www.sydneydive.com.au/products/M_AE55.3017.JPG) You can use a layer of fiber cloth for added tear strength. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 15, 2011, 10:15:29 PM Oh right !
Sorry, I mistranslated your sentence (I'm only a little frenchy, you know ;) ) Do you have a pic of how it does look like when you buy it ? Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 16, 2011, 02:28:34 AM Oh right ! Sorry, I mistranslated your sentence (I'm only a little frenchy, you know ;) ) Do you have a pic of how it does look like when you buy it ? Hebi http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QlFENRtML._SL500_AA300_.jpg (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QlFENRtML._SL500_AA300_.jpg) Oui je comprends mon ami de jedi :) There may be restrictions with the EU regulations...but basically it will be listed as 100% clear silicone sealant. Make the basic shape or the blade with your fiber optics, use a throw away brush to layer some of the silicone, let this dry, you could layer some clear plastic netting for extra strength, continue layering the silicone in stages allowing 15-20mins between so it can start curing (needs contact with air to release the stabilizing chemicals and cure). It will be flexible and fairly soft, safe. If you want a touch of rigidity then before the first layer add a piece of fiberglass, like a from a fishing pole. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 17, 2011, 12:27:29 AM That sounds very good to me !
Another solution I thought about might be using fiber optics, but with a hole in the middle to be able to blade a little metallic bar to give ot a form... But it might be too rigid, and hurting my sparring partner. Maybe with antoher materia ! Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 17, 2011, 01:00:10 AM I would avoid a metal core. Something flexible so that a flat of the blade strike (even if by accident) will give way.
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 18, 2011, 09:44:09 PM Hey! I found a Star Wars example of the weapon I was thinking of!
Long Handled Saber http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_staff (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_staff) (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071224034822/starwars/images/thumb/6/68/Nihlprofile.jpg/250px-Nihlprofile.jpg) Though my vision is not so Sithy or organic ::) I like the idea of organic, but I do prefer some refinement...not so much a chunk of metal or unfinished look. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Nero Attoru on December 18, 2011, 10:18:28 PM Hey! I found a Star Wars example of the weapon I was thinking of! Long Handled Saber Though my vision is not so Sithy or organic ::) I like the idea of organic, but I do prefer some refinement...not so much a chunk of metal or unfinished look. Believe it or not, this has been attempted here. DirtyJersey made his own creation a while back by using only one end of an Initiate staff: http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=2487.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=2487.0) He also found a neat way to make a sort of "crystal chamber" on the other end by using a blade plug. http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=3061.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=3061.0) Maybe you could try something like that. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on December 18, 2011, 10:32:37 PM That is a nice example!
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/Greywulf2112/SaberForum/Crystal%20Chamber/DSC00238.jpg) Shame the full crystal is not viewable! It is along the right path...needs to be a bit longer, less industrial, and in my hands...soon, I am selling a few props now to build up my funds for saber parts. I have an order for a full jedi robe outfit, so once that is completed or the items sell I will start the build. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Lucien Kane on December 18, 2011, 10:57:02 PM This will be really fun to see. I'd like to spar against a naginata. It seems a lot like getting comfortable with moving in close to your opponent is necessary when going up against that kind of reach. I'd love to test this hypothesis though.
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on December 18, 2011, 11:35:51 PM Yeah, DirtyJersey project was cool...
But, on the one I am working (I bought the metal pipe this week-end), the handle will be MUCH more longer ^^ Also, as I have been granted my 5th kyu on Friday, I now will be able to train in geiko, so I'll find a way to bring my light naginata at my training facility. Although I do not think I'll be able to finish it before at least may, that would be very cool ! Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: sharif sultan on January 11, 2012, 06:42:37 AM thank all of you for your discussion.it helps me
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on January 15, 2012, 08:13:11 PM So, I started working on it. For the blade, I am currently working with a cut-off blade (basic blade from one of my broken sabers).
I'll work on the other one at the end, as I'm still seeking a material sufficiently resistant for shaping my blade (in the middle of all the fiber optics) and transparent enough for that use. I'm now seeking a way to put the handle in shape, with the attachment for the blade... Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Duff Man on January 27, 2012, 02:33:52 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULQlg8RgkkA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULQlg8RgkkA#ws)
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Hebi on February 03, 2012, 10:00:35 PM Duff Man : these moves seems more "chinese like" to me : I've never heard of moves like these in Atarashii Naginata or in Tendo Ryu...
Hebi Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on February 04, 2012, 12:03:38 AM Knowing Duff I suspect it was a joke :o
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Duff Man on February 06, 2012, 10:01:10 AM You are correct Sir! We live to laugh and make fun of ourselves. But seriously I study Sogobujutu and although i don't think we do Naginata(at least he haven't yet) It is one of the weapons I would like to learn.
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on February 06, 2012, 04:03:47 PM Duff I do not think John Viol has included the naginata in the Seishinkan Sogobujutsu program but I am sure the request would be met with interest. My experience with traditional Japanese martial science is that after you have invested time and committed to the program that additional opportunities develop.
Are you in Ohio or Michigan? Do you study with Seishinkan or another group? Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on February 06, 2012, 04:08:07 PM Shinbukan Center for the Martial Arts perhaps?
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Duff Man on February 07, 2012, 04:54:02 AM Shinbukan Center for the Martial Arts perhaps? Yep that is exactly where I train. The Chief instructor of our Dojo is Dr. Michael Dunphy. But Mr. Viol is the Head of the organization and his main store/training center (Sakura Martial arts) is right next to us. We get to be the Guinea pigs for all his new programs(and pain) so he comes in and beats us every now and then. ;D He is doing a lot with modern weapons right now, but after this run is over we are going back to more traditional weapons. Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Lucien Kane on February 20, 2012, 05:43:50 AM Finally got to try out a naginata style saber made from pvc... Dude, the mechanics of that thing are amazing. I'm teaching a buddy of mine how to use it properly, and as I suspected the trick to dueling against one is closing distance and keeping your defense in tight.
Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Rel on February 20, 2012, 02:43:51 PM That would be a plan but a side or back step by the nagi will create space so I would say your attack should include faints to cause reaction and allow your movement to close the gap.
The way in on a naginata is going to be the path of focus, wait for the arc to an over commit swing and close. The real trick is to shadow, once you close you must stay close. Range is the key to winning for the polearm, take this away and seal the deal. PS I use a non traditional naginata technique with a wide center grip, like a long hilted sword but the back hand is far back allowing a quick range extending thrust. I tend to focus on thigh and knee attacks as this throws the whole closing the gap thing off. :) Title: Re: How to fight against a naginata... Post by: Master Lucien Kane on February 20, 2012, 08:25:26 PM That would be a plan but a side or back step by the nagi will create space so I would say your attack should include faints to cause reaction and allow your movement to close the gap. The way in on a naginata is going to be the path of focus, wait for the arc to an over commit swing and close. The real trick is to shadow, once you close you must stay close. Range is the key to winning for the polearm, take this away and seal the deal. PS I use a non traditional naginata technique with a wide center grip, like a long hilted sword but the back hand is far back allowing a quick range extending thrust. I tend to focus on thigh and knee attacks as this throws the whole closing the gap thing off. :) Totally agree here, all of these techniques and tactics are really sound. |