Saber Forum

Hey guys!

Logos and I briefly hijacked another thread for a back-and-forth about this show, so I decided to toss it out there:  Why do you love Babylon 5?

Now, this show is a bit of a way-back for some of you padawans and younglings, but for us "old timers" it was a revelation.  Not because of the special effects - though they were pretty cool - but because of the way it was constructed.

At the time B5 launched another show - Deep Space 9 - was beginning and the iconic Star Trek: The Next Generation was finishing up.   So it was kind of a 'dark horse' in the race.   But they did something that no other sci-fi show did (and which was actually frowned upon by the iconic shows) with their plotline:  The creator plotted an entire 5-year story arc.  And they started the show in January, giving it a very palpable "in real time" feel.   It went so far that they were even able to use footage from the first season in the 5th to close one of the long-standing story arcs.  Even when actors left the show they were usually able to adjust, though the replacement of Susan Ivanova with Captain Locksley in season 5 was a little ... forced.

But even then it wasn't horrible.   

And it had some amazing characters and character ACTORS playing rolls that were just amazing.  G'Kar, Lando, Vir, L'Neer, D'Lenn...   All were well cast and played well.   And some of the shorter-term characters like Marcus the Ranger and N'Roon, the Mimbari Warrior....

And who will ever forget G'Kar sitting at a side table with a man in armor, who claims to be Arthur, reveling in the defeat of ruffians in Brown Sector?  "...and they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the ground."

Or D'Lenn's speech to the Earth Force destroyers threatening B5?   "...He is behind me.   You are in front of me.   Be elsewhere."

Amazing show....    All it needed was lightsabers.   :-)

I can sum it up with 1 image:

Most practical starfighter design EVER.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/98/c7/3d98c737f31a525cbd222f978b744dd0.jpg)


<mike drop>

I always loved the true-to-physics approach they took to the space combat scenes.   Watching a flight of Star Furies swing by a capitol ship, rotating to keep the bigger ship in their sights as they flew by on their firing passes was awesome.

Somehow, the bank-and-roll action of the Star Wars fighters always seemed ... wrong.  The Star Fury will always be the "real" X-wing in my mind.   :-)

I loved Babylon 5 because it took the Humans, after they fought against the Minbari and almost lost, didn't really win, but it happened because of a mistaken gesture. The series took us, from a minor system, into the larger universe, where many races were out there, many who saw us as ants, or even less, puppets to have the strings pulled or toys to play with.

Other space TV shows at the time had Humans on par with other races or ahead of them in tech and sociality. B5 took our flaws and applied them to the Galaxy at large - and showed us that the others out there were as varied and as low browed as we are.

Yup.

I'd love to find a source I could rewatch this series. It's been decades.

do you get the COMET network?

https://www.comettv.com/ (https://www.comettv.com/)

its all on DVD also, i saw the box sets at a grocery store a while back for like $15 each

I bought the entire series on DVD on Amazon a few years ago, all used.  Averaged about $5 per season.  :-)

Amazon prime had all the seasons and shows at one point for streaming.

Not anymore though, all seasons unavailable.

OUCH. It's available to purchase on Vudu............ at $43 or more a season.

I also have the DVD collection.........................but no dvd player anymore. lol

Hmmmm. Must now negotiate with the gf on extraneous spending can be budgeted.

I've still got my DVD sets.  Rewatched it on Amazon when they had it last year.

I purchased mine through iTunes years ago.  But, if you have a Roku or Apple TV you might be able to watch it through there.  Try the STIRR app.  I've seen Comet TV on there.  Plus, it's free if it is available.

Hmmmm gf just got a Roku for Christmas. Is it a pay service, or does mere ownership of the device grant you certain accesses?


This is driving me nuts. I can remember the Centauri ambassador's name, Londo Mollari, but I can't remember the Narn's. I even remember the actor, Andrea Katsulas.

G'Kar

Oh yeah.

And his foil, Lando.  Both Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar and Peter Jurasik as Lando Mollari were fantastic.  As someone else said, B5 created both human and alien races as three-dimensional and with both strengths and flaws.  The continuing fall-out of the Earth-Mimbari war in the earlier seasons is an example of those flaws and differences on display.

Though one of my favorite episodes is in Season 1.  The different races are doing a "cultural exchange" - basically showcasing their cultures for the other races.  The Mimbari stage a beautiful litergical service, sterile and devoid of emotion but like set-piece artwork.  The Narn do their own thing, something appropriately Narnish, though I don't actually remember it well.  The Centauri stage what amounts to a drunken party/orgy.

And the humans?  Sinclair lines up all of the human clergy on the station from as many different faiths as possible.  A long line ... and an overt display of how we are diverse but get along.  THe Babylon project in a nutshell.

IT was a great statement.  Though I sometimes wonder why the Humans are the only race with true diversity in the universe...   LOL

At least he Drazi have the Purples and the Greens...   LOL

OH...  And there's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYloWBP79ro&feature=youtu.be# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYloWBP79ro&feature=youtu.be#)

For the same reason that "Basic" is English. It's just easier. Otherwise you'd have to have devoted entire teams to creating a functional society with quarks and traditions for EACH race.

At the same time, it can be interpreted as a very Terran characteristic: we didn't breed for traits. That explains our wide diversity.

Even with the 90's cgi, The Long Dark, Season 2, EP 5, with Dwight Schultz, was THE Episode that really got to me. 

It has been faaaarrrrrr too long for me. But looking back, the CGI may look dated, but who cares when the story and characters are what really carry the show?

It should be free. 

Lando:
(https://www.geekgirlauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/lando-calrissian.jpg)

Londo:
(https://b5thoughts.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/londo-gives-permission.png)

Yeah.....Lando had far more class....even for a scoundrel.

Ah, Babylon 5.  Television's incarnation of the phrase "Hell yeah!".  Why did I love it?  Why wouldn't I?  The writing, acting and directing have (with a few admitted exceptions) aged like fine wine.  Okay, the CGI has aged like fine milk, but it was a pioneer without which we wouldn't have the stuff we have today (like how there'd be no CIG Gollum without CIG Jar-Jar).  Every few years, I rewatch the series (it's available on DVD now, but that took a very long time; I made a point of saving my tapes) and see something I missed before.  I could go on and on about the show, but I will leave with two little notes. 

I came to watch B5 after TNT bought it.  A friend and I were up in a cabin over New Year's, determined to play our way through the entirety of NAMCO's Joust on his Playstation, juiced to the gills on sugar and caffeine (which is a lot more like being drunk than you'd think).  We finished just in time to catch the sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey (much more coherent than the original, but still a trippy movie), and during every single commercial break, TNT was bragging about the series it was going to start airing. Finally, in frustration, I called to the television "Fine!  Fine!  I'll watch it- just stop telling me about it!".  And they did.  It may have simply been because the movie ended; I genuinely don't know, but it absolutely amazed me.  Naturally, I lived up to my end of the bargain, and faithfully watched the whole show, taping every episode, since my friend told me there were lots of little details that rewarded rewatching.  He had NO IDEA.

Secondly, the depth of the writing.  The story was five seasons long, and  that was it- no matter what, season five would be the last.  That's a big part of why it took so long for the show to get made in the first place.  Seven episodes of season two were written by other people, but the entirety of seasons 3 and 4, and all but one of season five (that one?  Neil Gaiman) JMS wrote himself.  He had what he called "trapdoors" to enable any given actor to leave the show without destroying the story.  In one case, and actor whose character who was dealing with serious mental problems ended up leaving the show, because, it turned out, the actor himself was dealing with his own serious mental problems.  He told JMS, who said he'd respect the actor's privacy; "I'll take it to my grave".  To which the actor responded "No- take it to my grave".  Once he was dead, it couldn't hurt him anymore, and THAT was the kind of loyalty Babylon 5 inspired.

Okay, I lied; one last thing: the music is absolutely amazing.  It integrates so well that you often don't even notice it, but it impressed me so much that I went out and bought two episode soundtrack CDs, which I haven't done for any other series, before or since.


Better than you even know.  Supposedly, at one point NASA approached JMS and asked if they could copy the design for use in an actual spacecraft.  JMS said sure- so long as they called it a Starfury. 

Without having read all of your guys' in depth comments (sorry, I skipped ahead  ::) ) for me it's the quality characters, the portrayal of life in space and how tangible the environments and stories seemed.  I felt like it was so easy to get involved as a viewer which just added to the fun factor.  The graphics and conflicts were very cool, and the invention of the respective alien races was awesome.

Oho, we have Bab5 thread!! This was right in between SW and 5th Element for me as a kid, and though as I read now it was a VERY under-budget show I feel it was done very well with a great and practical kinda story line.

I was always torn between wanting more installments in the 5E universe or simply being content with cinematic perfection.

What I loved about B5 is what a lot of you already said, the realistic space combat. I also liked the political intrigue.

I know its a bit of a late response but...

It was a great show, great plot development (I really wish the guy knew that he'd have the fith season. And I do wish they made a movie about the Psi Corps)
After re-watching it, I could see the seeds planted even in the early first season. No harsh plot changes, it was all planned out very well.
I loved Captain Sheridan and his "I won't take any crap" kind of attitude.
I found the episode where they were kicked out of the rooms ( or had to pay an up charge) episode to be hilarious. They just slept in Sheridan's office lol.
But even better was the quote "Now get the hell out of our galaxy!"

Do any of yall know what actually happened to Ivanava? I've read conflicting reports about it.

I heard two stories. One was that they all thought the show was over after season 4, and the news that they were picked up came so late that Claudia had decided to move on to other projects.

The other was that she was asking for more $$$ and as B5 was being made on a shoestring budget they couldn't give it to her, so she left.

This has a pretty good breakdown:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/misc/cc-leave.html (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/misc/cc-leave.html)

Truth is, i'm kind of glad (for the Ivanova character) that she was not in Season 5. The plan was for her to fall for Byron (instead of Lyta) and get her heart broken *again.*

Since she left, they transferred that story over to Lyta, which honestly is good because it gave her something to do, as she was basically just supposed to be one of Byrons followers and then take over as leader of the rogue Telepaths after he died.

One of my favorite lines will always be, "Do not THUNK the book of G'Quan!"

"I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, "Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?" So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."

"Well, they said I was carrying around a lot of repressed anger. I'm not repressed anymore."

"It's like I always say, you get more with a kind word and a two-by-four than with just a kind word."

Thanks!

Oh my gosh, B5 - THE sci fi series of my students life. :D
Funny fact, just this week my wife has finished to watch all seasons again.
I love the whole story. It's like a real action drama, just on space coincidentally. The characters are believable, all with their very own story. Love the episode with the two technicans - it great to see there are not just the heroes, there are so many people behind, nothing would work without them.

Back then I had mailed with J. Michael Straczynski (Creator of B5, very nice) and spoken with Warner Bos. because I wanted to create a free print&play B5 card game with some fans. JMS liked the idea, but sadly Warner said no, because a free game makes no profit. Well, a long long time ago...