Saber Forum

I was wondering, any of you follow the rumors going on right now? (Overlord DVD for exemple on youtube)
What do you think? Will they erase the sequels and fire KK?
I'm not sure if we should be hopeful anymore. And if they do let Ruin Johnson make another SW movie...

Everything with a HUGE grain of salt.   But I can't see them just "erasing" the sequel trilogy...I think, if anything, they are going to try to ignore it and focus on something else.  As for Darth KK...the rumors have swirled for a while that Bob Iger was not happy with her handling of SW.  The New Bob isn't either.  But I doubt they will fire her.  She will probably "step down".

I agree, they won't erase the sequel trilogy.   What's done is done.  Kathleen Kennedy's exit, however, is very plausible.  A lot of online suggestions say that Dave Filoni  (hope I spelled that right) should take her place.  A few have suggested Jon Favreau, but I think Filoni would be better, only because he's been associated with Star Wars far longer.  We'll see.

After reading the headlines of "Star Wars Sequel trilogy to be erased... and Kathleen Kennedy to step down in disgrace!" the first thing I thought was that it was all too good to be true, and I think that's ultimately what's going on. They can try to pull some shenanigans like JJ did with trying to erase Ep. 8 with his Ep. 9 but as we've seen, that kind of stuff just goes to make everything more convoluted and confusing when viewing the Canon as a whole. As far as KK, I can't really see her stepping down because from the majority of what I've seen from Disney they do like what she has done. The only reason I could see them be upset with her direction is the lack of money that's being brought in (granted, that's more than enough nowadays to give someone the axe) but conceptually they seemed to have no problem with the mess of the Sequel Trilogy as it was playing out. A lot of the top people at Lucasfilm even jumped on the bandwagon to bash fans who had the gall to criticize their precious trilogy.

I've got this whole thing filed mentally under "fake news" but honestly, I hope I'm wrong.

I'd love it if they would scratch the sequels but I don't see that happening =/
I agree with the too good to be true statement.
As for KK, those rumors have been around since Solo. And there she is. (Though her contract may not be renewed, I don't see her being fired).
But I really really really want them to ban Ruin from touching SW ever again.

I agree about Rian, allowing him back would be a slap in the face to many. Giving him any kind of "creative freedom" would be an even bigger slap.

Personally, I think this would the wrong way to deal with the ST...what's been done is done. Point. There were flaws in the plot and cast (Rian and his way of telling Ep VIII, for example), but you always have that. You'll never please everybody.

Just imagine you come across something you don't like...or somebody. Do you try to get rid of it whatever it costs? As long as it doesn't pose a threat to your life, try to accept it as a part of your life - or just ignore it. Anything else would lead to anarchy. And please don't try to impose your opinion on others that have different opinions or suppress them. That's autocracy.

And what the most important thing is - we're talking about movies, about entertainment. Nothing that would be critical for survival! I do understand that there are many people who dislike or even hate what has been done there, but there are as many who like and love the ST. They would never accept a withdrawal or even destruction of these movies, just like the haters would never accept that the movies are still around.
Many younger people didn't even see anything of Star Wars prior to the ST, they don't have the insight and depth about Star Wars than others have and would never understand why the movies would be withdrawn again! Think of these as well before asking for a senseless action...

Don't always think that all have the same opinion, and don't think that they change their mind just because the haters repeat their request over and over again! If they don't like it, well, it's their opinion, and I respect that, but I don't respect that they try to take away the fascination and feeling from those who like the ST - like me!

Sorry, that might sound a bit harsh, but I thought it's been the time to comment on this discussion in a more direct way. Please don't feel offended, but I couldn't find other words...I just don't get it why the ST lovers have such a hard time among the ST haters who constantly bash them for liking the ST...it would be so easy to just accept the different opinions on the whole thing.

First of all. I'm not bashing anyone for liking those movies. I have very close friends that do. And I didn't mind TFA, though it lacked creativity and plausibility with the galaxy being in trouble again.
The thing is, it's not being a hater for being a hater. Ruin did a horrible movie in the storytelling department. Disney failed to have a vision for three consecutive movies... Each was made independently. It's the recipe for failure and inconcistancy.
You have every right to like the movies. Even the one Ruin did. But you also have to acknowledge that from a technical point of view and a writing point of view, it is a bad movie. Countless flaws have been put forward, and none of my friends or everyone else I've seen defend this particular movie could come up with solid arguments about Jake Skywalker, the plot, and so on.

Hell, there are a few bad movies I love myself. I just know they aren't good movies. Doesn't stop me from loving them.

As for retconning the ST... Well, Disney retconned the whole EU... So why not use the veil of the force to create an official timeline whithout the ST? It doesn't mean they are gone, like the EU is still there. They just wouldn't be part of the canon.

 I have to admit, I hope Disney will show an unedited version of TROS. I'd watch that.

Disney measures the success of their IP's largely by the merchandising profits. Toys in particular. The sequels aren't really doing too well in that department. So something is going to change. I doubt they will reset, though. That will be too controversial. I hope they make movies in between EP's 6 and 7 so they can tell the Skywalker stories we all wanted to see. Disney is going to do something to fix the current situation. They have way too much money on the line.
This YT vid pretty much echos how I feel about the ST:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywT7arOAnc4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywT7arOAnc4#)

Yeah, the toy business seems lacking... I recall videos of people stacking Rose Tikos... Then again, it kind of all happened together with toys r'us biting the bullet =/
I do hope they'll retcon them. But I honestly don't see that happening =/
I fully agree with your statement though. They NEED to do something to put SW back on the right tracks. Anyone with their right minds can see the damage done by RJ. (how does one chose a man that said his goal in life is to make movies hated by half of the viewers???)

Thank You,  So many think the movies are the only thing that matter.  It wasn't the movies that kept SW alive between ROTJ and TPM.  On the Toys that  Made Us on Netflix the Star Wars episode had an exec mention the Merch made double what the films did.  Its why the "Muachandising" joke was in Space Balls.  Gentle Giant's head honcho even said in a recent interview there wasn't a big market for the Sequel merch.  Beyond the disinterest in the Sequel films there is another aspect some groups have discussed.  The ST films seemed to many to be targeted at the "Gen Z" crowd.  Understandable, get the young kids into it to keep it alive. But the decided to abandon many of SW themes (imo) to do it.  But in terms of Gen Z...they don't really buy Merch.  Collectors my age love merch....action figures especially for me.  But the younger generation is very minimalist when it comes to things like that.

Rumors are rumors until action occurs to me. I'm not one for rumors, myself

Like I said, I don't blame anyone here for bashing, I know the UltraSabers community too well for that ;) And I kow that we all respect each other here :)

As for the storytelling...it was definitely a mistake not to outline the story first and then do the shooting but rather doing the film without an actual plot to stick to as well as hiring directors with totally different ideas on how to realise the movies. No one would've had problems if there were minor flaws, every movie has them, when the story is consistent and logical as a whole. Or if different directors would've worked together to provide a consistent experience. I didn't actually hate Ep VIII, as I tried to fill the plot holes with my own ideas on how and why this and that happened to the characters, but that shouldn't be the part of us but rather of the writers and directors to provide a good story and some more background than whe had in EP VIII.

As for retconning the ST...that's actually what I always try to use as an argument in discussion, seeing it as an alternative timeline. One of many. Not the one and only. I read a lot from the old EU, and I see the ST as another possible timeline. It might be canon now, but that doesn't make it the only outcome of the years after Endor. Leave it as it is, and use your imagination, that's what we're supposed to do ;) That's the way the old EU has been established, and that's how we should deal with the new canon as well. We can still make the ST better and more logical from a Star Wars POV if we just use our own ideas :D

That is indeed an interesting take on the matter. And now I understand the merch joke in Spaceballs better xD

It's a pitty that action figures don't do the trick anymore... I do hope my son will enjoy them a bit =) (if only to have an excuse for buying them =p)

Yeah, it's not all on JJ's or RJ's shoulders, though I can't get over what RJ did. The first mistake was hiring three different people whithout telling them to work something out together and with a SW versed writting crew.

As far as I am concerned, ST isn't canon. But officialy, it still is. For now. But I'm still mad at them for ruining the reunion of Han, Luke and Leia...

Just my two bits....the sequel trilogy is my least favorite of the three trilogies, but I definitely don't hate it.  Force Awakens might have followed a lot of the same beats and patterns as the original Star Wars, but I still thought it was good.  I did have a few problems with Last Jedi (Luke's characterization was NOT one of them) but I still liked it.  Rise of Skywalker didnt knock me out of my seat the way I wanted it to (they never did explain how Anakin's old lightsaber turned up!) but it kept me entertained, and that's all I ask of a movie.

As for the two spinoff movies, I enjoyed Solo more than I thought I would, and I absolutely loved Rogue One, to the point that I don't consider it a "spinoff" movie.

I'll freely admit, I'm an easy critic.  If I'm gonna totally hate a movie, it's got to be positively atrocious.

But I do think that "erasing" the sequel trilogy, or retconning it, would be the wrong way to go; that's one problem I had with ROS, it felt like it spent too much time trying to undo Last Jedi, instead of focusing on extending and completing the saga. I always have a problem with retconning in general.   It happened, deal with it.  Move forward and tell a better *new* story instead of retelling an old one.

Just, please......for the love of humanity......don't try to make another Holiday Special.   Can we all agree on that much?

I agree on both counts....for all the flack the prequels get, at least it had the same creator - Lucas - overseeing everything, so there was a good degree of continuity.

And yes, I will forever lament the fact that we never did get the Three Galactic Musketeers on screen together one last time, especially now that Carrie Fisher is gone.

A lot of good stuff here.

I may be way off but I think that a lot of the dislike of the ST comes from Disney/Lucasfilm's behavior toward the whole affair. If the powers in charge had come out and said "Look, we were trying to do something different, but yes, a lot of what we put on the screen contradicts the rest of Star Wars. We understand why many, many longtime fans feel betrayed." But that never happened, instead they went on the offensive and anyone who disliked the trilogy for any reason was "Toxic, a manbaby, etc." It's a classic strategy, usually name calling is what is resorted to when you don't have a leg left to stand on. I did notice that a lot of the fan-bashing seemed to taper off after Ep. 9 came out, almost as if KK and the gang realized that their positions were no longer defendable anymore. I mean you can't really go and say that Ep. 8 is a flawless work of art and then let JJ Abrams jettison it out the airlock.

The thing that always drives me nuts are the fans for whom it's the Original Old School Trilogy, and that's it.  Star Wars begins and ends there.  No Special Editions, no prequels, no sequels, no spinoffs, no books, no nothing.  And also, the fans that, for the longest time complained about how George Lucas "ruined" Star Wars with the prequels and kept saying that someone else needed to do it...then "someone else" does come along, for better or for worse, and then the same people are like, " Bring back Lucas!"

The Fandom can be a fickle bunch, and sometimes it irritates me, LOL.

I never got the prequel hate. Sure, Lucas doesn't always write the best dialogue. Sure, Jarjar was a bit much sometimes. But honestly, the world building was so incredible that I have always loved the prequels. You can get completely lost in prequel lore and contemplate "what if" scenarios til the end of time. George Lucas is a genius when it comes to world building and, to me anyway, that is the most important thing for a fantasy universe. After seeing how shallow the world building was in the ST, I have come to appreciate the prequels even more.

Whether Disney decides to do a reset or not, we all know they have to keep Star Wars going somehow. Whatever they do, they need to do it fast.

I for one would have loved the Darth JarJar story xD

@Jedi_Phoenix : I'm not sure the same fans bash the prequels and ask to bring back Lucas... As you said, for some of them, there's only the OT... So they shouldn't care about the rest.
Prequels have flaws, sure. But it doesn't compare to the last three.

RO is kind of a masterpiece for a movie written around one line in ANH! it's just insane! (Not a big fan of the love story and I will forever claim Imwe should have had a lightsaber pike)

I think, part of what made JJ try and retcon what Ruin did was the guy's lack of respect for his movie and him. RJ did write off JJ's name on the Falcon, gave the finger to all of the plot things JJ tried to implement... To be fair, JJ's woud have had better luck begining ROTS with Luke waking up from a force nightmare and focusing on his story for the last one instead of trying to erase it bit by bit...

@Saso Is-kor : They did say "oh if you don't like Finn or Rose you're racist" (I don't like Rose, and Finn is too convenient (knows everything they need but do not talk about it upfront? and I'm black, so they kinda made me laugh with this one) and "if you don't like Rey or Holdo you are a mysoginist"... I like well written characters. That's all... Sure, some "fans" didn't like them for those reasons. But it's not the good method to deal with criticism. Especially when the one taking the most heat said he like Rose's character because she wasn't a SW character and other disturbing stuff about SW... Way to go -_-

And IF he did say there were too many white dudes directing SW movies but still direct another one... Well... 8-)

What Irks me to no end is there seemingly reluctance to dive into the Old Republic...which is arguably where the best (expanded) stories came from.  We've discussed on another thread the upcoming High Republic series which is only set 200 years before TPM. 

Same here. I like the prequels and think that they were great and sure I have some qualms about them but they're great for the most part.  That's just me though, I love the franchise and most of the stories and characters that are in it

Old republic is perfect. Lots of politic shenanigans, lots of jedis, lots of siths, lots of smugglers and bounty hunters... Many lightsaber fights, many space fights... It's perfection. There is huge potential there...

You had me at "lightsaber fights."    ;D

Yeah I had myself at this point too xD

Supposedly a KOTOR screenplay is already being written for LucasFilm.

Yeah and I really hope he rumors saying Ruin is involved are false...
I like Taika Waititi and I don't mind a female Revan since my Revan was a woman. But Brie Larson? Arf...

GOD! Let it be.

I would be willing to give him ONE chance to apologize and redeem himself to the fanbase.

And what's done sucked. Favreau can do it. I believe he truly loves SW, and will do the franchise justice. Filoni is a big NO. I have seen him time and again sacrifice continuity for a momentary scene.

You're just saying that because you are obviously a fan of Rey.

But this isn't down to one person's opinion. Enough of the fans have spoken. The only reason Disney wanted the franchise was to sell merch. From the reports I've read, the only merch moving is OT stuff. Nobody wants ST merch.

But the bigger issue is this: they each bare EPISODE VII, EPISODE VIII, and EPISODE IX. This alone makes them an unavoidable part of the story. If the arc had actually been an offshoot, something that actually was able to be left or taken, I wouldn't have minded them as much. But NO, they had to put them right there at the center.

Be glad it wasn't up to one person, because I would fight as dirty as necessary to be the one voice heard, and I'd undo absolutely everything in the DC.

You're right. We're not talking life and death, so the world will also keep spinning if the Sequel Travesties are removed from canon. I've talked to said young people. They think they know something because they saw these new movies. Then I introduce them to stories and characters that USED to be canon. All of a sudden they realize that the sequels are a bit bland and uninspired.

What most fail to realize is that the Disney regime cast aside the people that made the franchise profitable in the first place: US. The first and second gen fans. The ones that kept interest in it and made it the pop-culture icon it is today. If Disney doesn't act fast, they are going to be the miserable owners of a multi-billion dollar blunder.

I won't and can't tell you you're wrong for loving a thing. And even if I actually use the words "You're wrong", they are to taken as a facetious joke. ;D Case in point: Super Mario Bros. It is awesomely campy, horribly written, and an awful adaptation....in short: It's a bad movie,....but I love it. There is nothing wrong with loving a bad movie, but don't try to tell me that it's anything else. But then there's The Last Airbender. The only people that liked that movie never saw the show. And once they see the show, they fully regret ever watching the movie let alone liking it.

Come what may, the movies have already been marketed and sold. Profits have already been made. And considering that the profits more than covered the production costs of each film, a retcon of the movies wouldn't be as costly to Disney as the continued lost revenue from unsatisfied fans. But more so, you have them in your DVD collection, and no one can remove them. So regardless of whether or not the ST remains canon, you will still be able to enjoy the movies that others hate. Just as I'm am currently able to read books and play games that are "no longer canon" and that some others hate.

If it were up to me, I'd do a full reset, but offer the ST actors first crack at the new roles. Say they went back to the original concept of the Solo kids: I would give Daisy and Adam first dibs at Jaina and Jacen.

Exactly. They pretty much told the older fans "We're throwing away everything you know and love about SW in order to bring about our millennial-sensitive, socially acceptable snooze fest."

I would have been fine with this as well, but it's not what happened.

NTM the wasted opportunities to have Peter and Carrie make films that vast majority appreciated and loved.

ROFL

What got my ire up with KK and her flying monkeys was the blatant sexism.

I'm gonna partially disagree with you. I happily managed to snag the last selling (at least I think it was the last) of the original theatrical cut DVDs. The ones in the metal art box. Why am I so happy? Because everything added in the "special editions" didn't actually "add" anything to the story. In fact, in some areas, it was actually worse. My mother even said, adding Jabba to Ep.4 was a mistake. The original cuts gave the character a great mystique. You kept hearing this name for 2 movies, and THEN you finally see what Jabba is in the beginning of ROTJ. Yes I can appreciate that was originally in the plan to be done, but was ultimately superfluous.

MAKE KEANU REVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAKE KEANU REVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem........MAKE KEANU REVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only does he kind of resemble the model for Revan from SWTOR....but you know he would go hardcore with the sword training to make his lightsaber fight awesome.....I mean....just look.

(http://[url=https://i.redd.it/ll0osnzflrc21.jpg]https://i.redd.it/ll0osnzflrc21.jpg[/url])


and
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJik2lrmHTM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJik2lrmHTM#)

Uh......DUH!

(https://i.imgur.com/HxJAthD.jpg)

But this image sums it all up

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3c4f57a32b318c1d42508f8ac4b7d9b7)


Sweet vid. Keanu would crush the role.

Ok, I'm sold.
MAKE KEANU REVAN!

Right ;D

She could have been written oh so well better...

But y'know.....social agenda sells so much better than plot and good character development. ;D

I agree on many points of this "social agenda". But if you're gonna do it, you might as well do it properly. There are many great female characters in SW. Rey, as depicted in the movies, is not one of them. I'm all for women in SW. But this was no help to the cause. Or women in general. At least she had a bit of training in the last one. But the first two? argh.

And OMG she failed too. <gasp>

That's what irked me so much when this rhetoric was bandied about.  There are so many bad ass well written women in Star Wars that are also beloved.  Bastilia and Satele Shan, Shae Viszla, Tenal Ka, Vestara, Ventress, Mother Talzin, new additions from Fallen Order Nightsister Merrin and Master Cere, Admiral Daala, Jaina Solo, Ahsoka, Mon Mothma, MARA FREAKING JADE!!!  And of course the Original badass SW Lady...Leia.  I guess they think we just liked leia because of the Metal Bikini.

I think that's what they believed yeah... And I'm quite sure neither KK nor JJ or Ruin know who are those characters.

Carrie looked damn good in it, but I remember always having a very minimal fear of Leia. The similar kind of fear I had of my mother. The kind where you know she is good and cares about people, but if you ever cross her, you WILL regret it. To me, Leia was the epitome of "badass woman". No super powers required. She did it with skill, tact, and raw determination. And she absolutely defied architype.

Which is why in the EU she made such a great Jedi.  Her political and survival skills were already above par and add to that the being the daughter of The Chosen One.  She just chose not to live as a Jedi.