Title: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on February 17, 2012, 12:53:40 AM I read the great discourse on the 7 lightsaber forms by Uilos718 and have been thinking on my old karate katas and how I might apply a lightsaber to the moves. So I doodled out the steps at work today and added a bit of text to explain each step. This was the 1st kata I learned, so it's very basic and I hope the steps are clear and understandable. I have 2 more sketched out and will post them later.
Comments and critiques more than welcome! (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/darthcestual/shiicho.jpg) Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Luna on February 17, 2012, 12:55:05 AM This is pretty cool. Now if only someone could come up with kata for Soresu.... ;)
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on February 17, 2012, 01:05:40 AM I'll do that one next, stay tuned...
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on February 17, 2012, 02:31:23 AM Again, these are based on katas from my old karate class, pulling from memory of near a decade ago, adapting for use with a lightsaber, and so may not 100% fit in with what your ideas of each form should be. Regardless, if you choose to practice these, you'll get a decent little workout, lol. ::)
Soresu (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/darthcestual/soresu.jpg) Makashi (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/darthcestual/makashi.jpg) Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Uilos on February 18, 2012, 02:03:32 AM Honored you read it, and terrific transcription of a kata! You should proud!
This is pretty cool. Now if only someone could come up with kata for Soresu.... ;) NY Jedi has one for Soresu Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on February 18, 2012, 04:58:04 AM I've been watching tons of youtubes on the NYJedi, partly why I've been geeking out so much and felt inspried to draw these up at work, lol. I really wish there was that kind of fan base in my area, but I guess thats the trade off for living in the country.
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on February 22, 2012, 01:00:28 AM Ok, so I'm in the process of re-drawing the little stick figure guys in the above katas and I had an idea and wanted to toss it out to the group to see what you guys think. I was thinking that by saving each image individually, you could make your own forms by pieceing together the stances in whatever order you'd like. I'd be starting with just single blade stuff for now, but if there's an interest, I could go on to 2 sabers & saber-staffs. Thoughts?
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Stephen Strange on March 04, 2012, 11:01:27 AM If these are cross referenced with other kata´s... and then blend in... In such a way that all 7 kata´s have all basic techniques incorporated... with the help of some of the masters here that should be possible.
We could finally manage to make the Saber style complete... it involves a lot of checking with saber clubs etc. Can we do that... Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Stephen Strange on March 04, 2012, 01:00:19 PM I have been checking video´s of people trying to shape these forms.. untrained and a bit unsecurely done. Most very unprofessional. There should be a way to make this a professional art.
I just wonder what Nero and Art think of it... is it worth it to shape this up. Does anyone has the insights on how the schools out there interp these... Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Darth Cestual on March 04, 2012, 08:54:19 PM I've effectively abandonded my interpretations (except when I'm practicing alone) in favor of the more universally accepted forms by General Sun of the NYJedi, of which I'm in the process of illustrating the steps to have as a handy guide. Here's a sketch of the movements in each section.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/darthcestual/shiichostepsketch.jpg) Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Uilos on March 05, 2012, 12:35:36 AM I've effectively abandonded my interpretations (except when I'm practicing alone) in favor of the more universally accepted forms by General Sun of the NYJedi, of which I'm in the process of illustrating the steps to have as a handy guide. Here's a sketch of the movements in each section. ([url]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c377/darthcestual/shiichostepsketch.jpg[/url]) ^ Yes Title: Re: saber kata Post by: JaceLansing on June 23, 2018, 04:31:31 AM Coming from a long background in martial arts, I love the idea of having katas for each of the 7 (Or 6) forms. I have been searching for days and having been able to find anything that the saber community really agrees on. NY Jedi looks like they have something going.
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Resolute on June 23, 2018, 03:52:25 PM Great illustrations! ;D ;D
All this is good stuff. We use a much different method in the J.o.E. LSC and typically stay away from Kata's. That being said, I still share every ounce of knowledge with them as possible. As someone who did forms training for 18+ years, I can say it has its advantages and disadvantages, as does anything in life. That being said, learn the kata/drill to break the kata/drill. There is no pattern, simply self expression and muscle memory. Those who first start in a new system have the hardest time realizing this. I know this isn't really the discussion going on in this thread, I just felt the urge to share my thoughts. A lot of people always ask me where I think they should start. I follow the Jeet Kune Do Philosophy. All Martial Arts have a time and place, and the most important factor is the individual, the art/system is simply part of the equation....an important part, but can still be changed or modified. For example, BJJ is not very good in 4 feet of water. Superior Footwork cannot be utilized if you find yourself in the backseat of a car. Anyway...Learn as much as you can, always be a student, always seek more knowledge. Keep what you like, discard what you do not (Sijo Bruce Lee). Continue to Train the things you don't like in the beginning though, as we age, you might find a technique you previously hated, but have now found a way to utilize it. Our bodies change roughly every 5 years and we have to adapt to the aging process. 20 years ago I was " Sihing Happy Feet " ( I moved with the Rocker shuffle a lot. ) Now I blend Kali/Wing Chun/Silat into its own, vicious animal. Mostly because I cannot move like I use to. Injuries and age, they get us all. Sorry to derail the conversation a little. Kata's are a great way to start, especially if you can only train by yourself. TPLA has a curriculum that incorporates Kata/Dulons , Drills, Flourishes, Sparring, etc etc and is a good place to start IMO. Title: Re: saber kata Post by: JaceLansing on June 23, 2018, 07:54:51 PM I agree with most things you have just stated. :) The school I'm part of has ranks as you go through the 7 forms. They want me to spend 1 year on each of the 7 forms. However, they have no katas or set movements that I am expected to practice. It feels more like I am showing up, sparring a lot, and then going home (After hanging out with chill people of course). I've always thought of Katas and Sparring as Knowledge and Wisdom. Katas show that you understand the movements, Sparring shows that you are wise enough to know when and how to use them or adapt them. A true Jedi should have both knowledge and wisdom. With about 20 years of martial arts background under my many black belts I don't know how I'm going to handle spending 1 year on each form, unless I can see the structure and the reason for why it is taking me so long. I hope that someday I get my answers and can look back on these questions as just an arrogant younger me. Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Resolute on June 23, 2018, 08:31:25 PM Just a guess based by your response. Could be wrong. ;D
TKD or Traditional Japanese based background? Shaolin Meihuaquan focuses on Forms as well. (no partner drills, only Forms and Sparring. ) I say traditional because the drill format is not normally trained. Some schools, Kenjutsu and Kendo namely, have introduced the drill format in my neck of the woods. Title: Re: saber kata Post by: JaceLansing on June 23, 2018, 09:11:32 PM Just a guess based by your response. Could be wrong. ;D TKD or Traditional Japanese based background? Shaolin Meihuaquan focuses on Forms as well. (no partner drills, only Forms and Sparring. ) I say traditional because the drill format is not normally trained. Some schools, Kenjutsu and Kendo namely, have introduced the drill format in my neck of the woods. lol Spot on. I come from a very traditional TKD school. So "traditional" that competitions weren't even allowed (But I have trained in 14 other styles as well). I don't want to do anything as strict as this again, but there is beauty in a school that moves as one through a pattern. I would even like to have set patterns that are made for dueling. Nothing too big, but if you come across another person from another school you could duel at a Con and look epic knowing that the other person will know how to reply. Adding a whole nother level to RP in real life. Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Resolute on June 23, 2018, 09:55:42 PM 5 point sumbrada :)
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: JaceLansing on June 23, 2018, 10:05:24 PM 5 point sumbrada :) YES! I used this in class last night while sparring and was shocked at how easy it was to get around someone's guard. I expected them to know what I was doing and start going faster. XD Title: Re: saber kata Post by: Master Medwyn on June 25, 2018, 07:37:16 AM What a lovely thread! Thank you for resurrecting it, I completely missed this!
Title: Re: saber kata Post by: JaceLansing on June 26, 2018, 05:58:46 AM What a lovely thread! Thank you for resurrecting it, I completely missed this! No worries. I thought it would be better than starting a new one on the same subject. I've been doing a lot of research into Shii-Cho. Not into what other people IRL are doing with it. But more into what the books have to say about it. I feel that most things that are put out there right now IRL aren't made for crowd control or facing more than one person. I would rather see Shii-Cho (Because it is also done with two hands) done more like Bagua Zhang Broadsword. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfdgynPj1pI&t=0s&index=10&list=PLirWCkidcOMHxLtEp0qBcxMmBOrLII1UV Here is one of the forms that shows it being used with both hands. With the large sweeping movements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCwyKQmMfzk Connecting into two hands would be very easy to do. And it would lead into form 2 very well. Title: Re: saber kata Post by: DarthProdigal on November 10, 2020, 01:03:39 AM I read the great discourse on the 7 lightsaber forms by Uilos718 and have been thinking on my old karate katas and how I might apply a lightsaber to the moves. So I doodled out the steps at work today and added a bit of text to explain each step. This was the 1st kata I learned, so it's very basic and I hope the steps are clear and understandable. I have 2 more sketched out and will post them later. Comments and critiques more than welcome! I love it! It is epic in it's simple practicality for a few reasons. 1- Martial Arts (including karate, tae kwon do, kendo, kumdo, etc.) that have these as a basis for learning fundamentals. Teaching your body some of the range of motion with a specific weapon, small practical applications on blocking or attacking, building confidence and control, and even demonstrating such kata for entertainment or novice instruction. 2- Lore- Once upon a time this was cannon (even if now it's labeled as Legend in the extended universe) in Drew Karpyshyn's book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction "kata" have a place in the learning process. They are called sequences... and ALL lightsaber combat they learn as Sith are introduced as initially learning, memorizing, and building muscle memory of these sequences. It's a solid foundation to build on. A hinderance if over relied on, but at best it frees up the mind mid combat to observe enemy movement/ tactics more clearly for openings and such. Letting the Force guide you, being one with it, whatever you call it in that elevated flow. Bane learns hundreds of attacks, blocks, parries, and they become a fluid personal style of Djem So he uses to horrifying effect. 3- Universality- As mentioned in a previous post, pre established kata then become disseminated. If this proliferation is widespread enough theoretically 2 practitioners of the same Form would then know some similar sequences even having never met before. Providing a frame of reference, opportunity to see individual adaptations made and their potential efficacy, and adding further depth to a true sport/combat aspect of lightsaber use. With no offense given to stage combat, this is what Samurai developed when they could no longer "fight" and carry swords but wanted skills to be preserved for future use/teaching. Making me even more passionate about development/delving into this area. I will endeavor to research these kata, sequences, and videos relating to the like. If I must pick up where others left off so be it. Or adapting the existing ones to produce reliable sequences if none are as fleshed out as I'd prefer. BUT the diagrams and zeal that started this topic wont die while I hunger for growth. I've spent more than half my life now dedicated to some type of sword, so passion isn't lacking. If I discover, create, or adapt anything of merit here is likely where it will wind up. I feel I'm not the only one still seeking this synthesis. |