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General Chat => Movies, TV, and Music => Topic started by: Darth Knox on September 12, 2018, 03:36:44 PM



Title: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 12, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
Apparently he may not don the blue tights again following a breakdown in negotiations.

If true, are you guys happy by this news, sad or indifferent?

https://www.cbr.com/henry-cavill-exits-superman/?utm_source=CBR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution (https://www.cbr.com/henry-cavill-exits-superman/?utm_source=CBR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution)


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 12, 2018, 03:48:46 PM
I truly feel that he brought the Man of Steel back to the big screen with his rendition and it'll be a sad day if this is true and he's leaving.  


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Kham-Ryn Kurios on September 12, 2018, 04:46:28 PM
Perhaps not yet....

https://screenrant.com/henry-cavill-not-leaving-superman-dceu/


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 12, 2018, 05:23:32 PM
Good find, Kham. Point


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Saso Is-kor on September 12, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Whether he leaves or not, I truly don't think the DC cinematic universe can take too many more direct hits before the ship goes down. For years I've been under the mindset that they've been more concerned with catching up to Marvel than actually focusing on their own work and it has always shown.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 12, 2018, 05:36:51 PM
Perhaps not yet....
I did say "apparently".  :D
And my link said that nothing has been confirmed, but negotiations broke down for a cameo in Shazam and scheduling issues as he is now set to star in The Witcher.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out as I liked him in the role even if (in my opinion) he has never been given a script to fully allow him shine as the character.

Whether he leaves or not, I truly don't think the DC cinematic universe can take too many more direct hits before the ship goes down. For years I've been under the mindset that they've been more concerned with catching up to Marvel than actually focusing on their own work and it has always shown.
True. Even though I wasn't a fan of the direction the DCEU was taking under Snyder, at least it was trying to do it's own thing. I think the mistake they made was trying to rush, rather than make each individual movie the best it could be, with only subtle hints at future universe building. But that is not unique to WB/DC. Virtually every other studip has tried (and failed) at successfully creating their own cinematic universe franchise due to the success of Marvel.

I think the MCU was partially lightning in a bottle and partially was launched at the right time; comic book movies had been proven to be successful at the box office, studios were shown that audiences would take them seriously and Kevin Feige had a unique vision to do something never attempted before.

The fact the MCU has been so successful while other attempts at cinematic universes have failed just goes to prove how much of a freak (albeit a successful one) Marvel Studios is.

*EDIT*
Just saw this on John Campea's Youtube channel, an excerpt from the Hollywood Reporter  :'(
(https://i.imgur.com/oFOhInf.png)


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 12, 2018, 06:31:17 PM
This would suck, but I don't blame Cavill. I love the cast of the DCEU (except for Flash), and seeing them leave would not be good. From what I can tell you either like the Snyder films or you don't, there isn't really an in-between (not talking about characters or actors, just the movies themselves). Personally, they don't stand up the the MCU, but they are by no means "bad" movies. I think it is a mistake for them Warner Bros. to end what they have going. With a little direction (and a mastermind like Marvel has), I think they could do a lot with what they have set up. Everyone is going to be mad if they do this same thing to WW, Aquaman and Shazam. We will have to wait and see though. There was a ton of stuff about Affleck stepping down from the Batman role and film, but he personally denied that. Whether that has changed or not, I don't know because I haven't paid much attention to it.

Maybe Snyder will just restart his own DCEU with Affleck, Cavill, and whoever else he wants.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 12, 2018, 06:36:07 PM
I always felt Cavill could make a much better Superman than we were given.  Something said in one of the articles does show the flawed thinking sometimes in "Hollywood"..Max Landis talked about it before as well.  Since there was not as big as a reaction to the Superman films the Exec's think No one wants superman at all.   Hopefully they can figure something out.  I read both Marvel and DC but I was always drawn more to DC in the past...in the last 10 years though DC hasn't really given me anything worth my time.  What I would give for a Kingdom Come film.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 12, 2018, 09:53:49 PM
Click bait fake headline. There's a lot of this with Hollywood stuff and internet "news." All I saw was that they didn't get him for a cameo in Shazam! It's an incredible leap of logic to say that means he's done with the role entirely. Likely, they offered him a laughable salary for a small cameo, and he didn't want to accept it. When it comes time for a movie where he'll be the star, the offers will likely be juicier.

Though, it's also possible that DC/WB will decide to go a different way entirely for their next Superman film. We never really know what's going to happen.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 12, 2018, 10:14:37 PM
Click bait fake headline. There's a lot of this with Hollywood stuff and internet "news." All I saw was that they didn't get him for a cameo in Shazam! It's an incredible leap of logic to say that means he's done with the role entirely. Likely, they offered him a laughable salary for a small cameo, and he didn't want to accept it. When it comes time for a movie where he'll be the star, the offers will likely be juicier.


Just saw this on John Campea's Youtube channel, an excerpt from the Hollywood Reporter 
(https://i.imgur.com/oFOhInf.png)

Now I know not every entertainment outlet is infallible, but the Hollywood Reporter is pretty accurate most of the time. However, there is always the possibility that this is one of those times when they are wrong. Won't know anything until WB make an official announcement, which should be soon for your guys (at it's currently 11.20pm in the UK and I have to go to bed soon as I have an early start tomorrow).



Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 12, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Oh, indeed, The Hollywood Reporter is one of the better ones, I'm just saying that there's a lot of supposition in assuming that someone turning down a small cameo means that person must be done with that role. And, when both his agent and the studio quickly weigh in saying it's not necessarily the case, then that leads to this being premature reporting.

Personally, I think Henry has done a good job with what he was given as Superman. He made the best of it. He certainly looks the part. However, I don't necessarily think the studio has done a good job handling these movies. I understand, for example, that they actually cut a lot of his best stuff out of the theatrical cut of Batman v Superman. (fortunately, I've only seen the extended cut) He actually has some really good parts in that, particularly as Clark Kent. As an actor, I think he's a good one. I quite enjoyed his performance in Mission Impossible: Fallout.

I enjoy and have all of the DCEU movies on Blu-Ray. However, I would also like to see them take as much time as they need to get a script together, with some better writing. And then, if Henry isn't willing to return to the role in a new film, then move to a different actor. But, that's my opinion. We all know these studios do whatever they want.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: tx_tuff on September 12, 2018, 10:54:05 PM
He definitely had the perfect look for Superman and his acting skills were only getting better. Sucks that he appears to be out along with Ben Affleck who I thought was a great Batman.

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Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 13, 2018, 09:44:50 PM
He is leaving Superman. He just took on a new role to play Geralt from the Witcher on Netflix. There were scheduling conflicts between Warner Brothers and Netflix and from what I read WB didn't have another big Superman movie planned for sometime so he jumped ship.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 13, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
You can't blame him. He wants starring roles, not little bit parts. It's also a shame that they apparently want to turn Superman into a character that just appears in films to tie them into the DCEU, as opposed to giving him another big screen outing. But, Henry will land on his feet. Aside from that new Witcher role, I'm sure he'll have more good stuff coming his way. Not only is he a good actor, but he's established himself as a really good action star.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Saso Is-kor on September 14, 2018, 03:25:04 AM
Using the same analogy I made above, Cavill departing is yet another facepalm moment in the DC films and the whole ship is taking on water. Eventually the fans are going to get tired of this kind of stuff. Anyone else feel like simple continuity is just the hobgoblin of DC? It feels like since the Dark Knight trilogy that the studio has never been able to find a decent footing (I mean, switching out actors so often like it's some sort of relay race is enough to sink a franchise all by itself.)


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 14, 2018, 08:39:07 AM
If you look back at phase 1 and phase 2 of the MCU they had a few missteps. However, you could always tell what the overall plan for the franchise was; you could see the direction the over-arching story was taking.

Unfortunately, with all the DCEU movies, you cannot say the same. And that is a fundamental problem. I think fans will be forgiving of a bad movie or two as long as they can see the general direction of the franchise. At present, it is impossible to say what the overall plan for DCEU is.

With multiple movie being announced and then cancelled, conflicting reports about what movies may or may not be happening, actors leaving (or are they?) the current state of the DCEU is a mess. I am looking forward to Aquaman and will be interested to see Wonder Woman in the 80s, however, I worry for the future of the DCEU. If things continue in this way I can see them just cancelling everything, waiting 5 years and then rebooting the entire thing, which would be a shame as Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa are great in their respective roles.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 14, 2018, 06:58:18 PM
I still haven't seen anything be confirmed on this yet. Am I missing something?


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 14, 2018, 07:14:18 PM
If you look back at phase 1 and phase 2 of the MCU they had a few missteps. However, you could always tell what the overall plan for the franchise was; you could see the direction the over-arching story was taking.



Agreed.  The End Credit Scene of Iron Man set the goal, The Avengers.  Then Avengers set the next goal, Thanos.  Can not say the same for the dceu


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 14, 2018, 07:36:42 PM
I still haven't seen anything be confirmed on this yet. Am I missing something?
Cavill leaving is still ambiguous, so we are still speculating.

The official press announcement from WB on this situation was along the lines of "we have not made any decisions about future Superman movies and we love working with Henry Cavill". Not a denial but not an definitive statement that he's staying.

Can not say the same for the dceu
Green Lantern was supposed to be the start of the DCEU but when the movie flopped they changed their mind. They then retroactively said that MoS was the beginning of their cinematic universe, but it was never originally planned that way.

With Aquaman and Shazam finished shooting and due out, and WW 84 currently filming, then a rumoured Flash movie (which apparently will NOT be Flashpoint) and two standalone Joker movies, and maybe a Birds of Prey film too and Geoff Johns apparently writing a Green Lantern Corps movie, the whole thing is an ungodly mess.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 14, 2018, 07:45:05 PM
Cavill leaving is still ambiguous, so we are still speculating.

The official press announcement from WB on this situation was along the lines of "we have not made any decisions about future Superman movies and we love working with Henry Cavill". Not a denial but not an definitive statement that he's staying.
Green Lantern was supposed to be the start of the DCEU but when the movie flopped they changed their mind. They then retroactively said that MoS was the beginning of their cinematic universe, but it was never originally planned that way.

With Aquaman and Shazam finished shooting and due out, and WW 84 currently filming, then a rumoured Flash movie (which apparently will NOT be Flashpoint) and two standalone Joker movies, and maybe a Birds of Prey film too and Geoff Johns apparently writing a Green Lantern Corps movie, the whole thing is an ungodly mess.

I knew about the Standalone Joker films but not the other ones...good grief.    it looks like Shazam and Aquaman are attempting to change tonality within the DCEU.  i'm not 100% sold on Shazam but (even though I still he was miscast) Aquaman looks entertaining.  IMO  The DC stories (at least in the past) were 9 out 0t 10 more epic than Marvel's in the comics.  It's a shame to see them mishandled. 


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 14, 2018, 08:05:48 PM
IMO  The DC stories (at least in the past) were 9 out 0t 10 more epic than Marvel's in the comics.  It's a shame to see them mishandled. 
If there's one thing that Marvel has done a lot better than DC is taking the essence of great storylines from the comics and converting them into great cinematic experience. It's "based on" not an actual straight forward adaptation. Whereas DC, that have some of the storylines in comic history, have not really taken advantage of that fact.

Shazam is essentially BIG with superpowers. And because of that, Zac Levi is probably the perfect casting (although we shall have to wait and see).

Momoa's Aqauman was one of th few good things about Justice League so it will be good to see him given more screen time. And the film has an amazing cast (WIllem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Temura Morrison, Patrick Wilson).

I forgot to mention that there is also talk of a teenage Supergirl movie, which some people are saying is also a reason Cavil may have left (because they want to focus on that movie rather than a MoS sequel).


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 14, 2018, 08:21:30 PM
If there's one thing that Marvel has done a lot better than DC is taking the essence of great storylines from the comics and converting them into great cinematic experience. It's "based on" not an actual straight forward adaptation. Whereas DC, that have some of the storylines in comic history, have not really taken advantage of that fact.

Shazam is essentially BIG with superpowers. And because of that, Zac Levi is probably the perfect casting (although we shall have to wait and see).

Momoa's Aqauman was one of th few good things about Justice League so it will be good to see him given more screen time. And the film has an amazing cast (WIllem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Temura Morrison, Patrick Wilson).

I forgot to mention that there is also talk of a teenage Supergirl movie, which some people are saying is also a reason Cavil may have left (because they want to focus on that movie rather than a MoS sequel).

Ugh, Like you said..its a massive mess.  I agree on Marvel.  the took the best elements from multiple era's of the comics, sprinkled their own touches here and there and managed to make something both familiar and different.    Also agreed on the stories at their disposal.  the Death of Superman should have com much later with Actual doomsday...not a weird hybrid of Superboy's origin and a LOTR cave troll


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 14, 2018, 09:04:16 PM
I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films. For one thing, I've never been a huge Joker fan, but my biggest problem is that you can't have Joker without Batman. Plus now the actor for Joker in the Joker movie is not Leto, so is it even going to be in the DCEU? Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains. The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win. I can understand what they did with Thanos in IW, but even still, that was setting up for A4. I can also understand a Venom movie, because he has always been his own character even if he fights/hates Spider-Man (but they do need to bring Spider-Man and Venom together sometime, maybe against Carnage). But I for the most part, there are very few villains that even come close to needing a standalone film (all my opinion of course). I want the DCEU to be incredible, but they do need to take some time (or have a definite path they are following at the very least).

I don't know, like y'all are saying, it is a bit of a mess. But I really want them to succeed, and I think Aquaman and Shazam have a chance at redeeming the DCEU. I do wonder though (if the rumors about Batfleck and Cavill are more than just rumors) how long it will take for Momoa and Gadot to decide that they are done as well. They all love their characters, but they seem to me like they wont take a ton of stuff like this. Which then, that will be all the good parts about JL gone (I did like Cyborg, but you can't replace Martian Manhunter IMO).

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I don't dislike Green Lantern. Was it that great, no, but it wasn't that bad either. I would've liked to see a sequel, because Sinestro looked absolutely perfect.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 14, 2018, 09:29:43 PM
I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films. For one thing, I've never been a huge Joker fan, but my biggest problem is that you can't have Joker without Batman. Plus now the actor for Joker in the Joker movie is not Leto, so is it even going to be in the DCEU? Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains. The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win. I can understand what they did with Thanos in IW, but even still, that was setting up for A4. I can also understand a Venom movie, because he has always been his own character even if he fights/hates Spider-Man (but they do need to bring Spider-Man and Venom together sometime, maybe against Carnage). But I for the most part, there are very few villains that even come close to needing a standalone film (all my opinion of course). I want the DCEU to be incredible, but they do need to take some time (or have a definite path they are following at the very least).

I don't know, like y'all are saying, it is a bit of a mess. But I really want them to succeed, and I think Aquaman and Shazam have a chance at redeeming the DCEU. I do wonder though (if the rumors about Batfleck and Cavill are more than just rumors) how long it will take for Momoa and Gadot to decide that they are done as well. They all love their characters, but they seem to me like they wont take a ton of stuff like this. Which then, that will be all the good parts about JL gone (I did like Cyborg, but you can't replace Martian Manhunter IMO).

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I don't dislike Green Lantern. Was it that great, no, but it wasn't that bad either. I would've liked to see a sequel, because Sinestro looked absolutely perfect.

Depends on the Villian imo.  Vader and Maul mainly...maybe in the same movie :)


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 14, 2018, 09:31:43 PM
I don't see the reason for Joker standalone films.
Personally, I think it is a mistake to make movies about Villains.
The majority of the world doesn't care about the villains, they want to see the heroes win.
As the old saying goes, a hero is only as good as their villain. Yes, we want to see the heroes win, but a credible villain will push the hero to the limit, making their triumph all the more satisfying when it happens.

With Thanos, we have had 17 movies with the heroes, getting to know them and their personalities, foibles, quirks and passions. That's why they could afford to spend large parts of IW focussing on Thanos; we need to build him up as a credible opposition to all the heroes, as well as justify the super long build up to having him properly appear in a movie.

I agree with Joker though. That's one of the main reasons I don't watch Gotham (a Batman show without Batman).

I love Marvel and the MCU but I want DC to succeed as I love those characters too. Plus, more great comic book movies can only be a good thing.

As I said before, the MCU started at the right time. It was bad timing for DC though as they were still finishing up the Nolan Bat trilogy. However, rather than make a movie, see if it's successful and then decide to make another, they could have (quietly and in the background) planned out their entire slate or phases. Once Nolan had finished the Bat trilogy, they could have announced the first movie in the line-up and THEN, if the movie was good, announce the general plan going forward.

Kevin Feige is a master at working the press to his advantage and engaging with the fandom. Which is part of the reason fans have so much faith in the direction of the MCU; we know it is leading somewhere. They have so much goodwill that even movies that come out are judged to only be a moderate success (like Antman & the Wasp) people are still eager to see the next two, three, four movies that are coming out. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with the DC movies.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 14, 2018, 09:59:23 PM
Depends on the Villian imo.  Vader and Maul mainly...maybe in the same movie :)

Like I said, there are very few villains I think deserve their own movie.

As the old saying goes, a hero is only as good as their villain. Yes, we want to see the heroes win, but a credible villain will push the hero to the limit, making their triumph all the more satisfying when it happens.

With Thanos, we have had 17 movies with the heroes, getting to know them and their personalities, foibles, quirks and passions. That's why they could afford to spend large parts of IW focussing on Thanos; we need to build him up as a credible opposition to all the heroes, as well as justify the super long build up to having him properly appear in a movie.

I agree with Joker though. That's one of the main reasons I don't watch Gotham (a Batman show without Batman).

I love Marvel and the MCU but I want DC to succeed as I love those characters too. Plus, more great comic book movies can only be a good thing.

As I said before, the MCU started at the right time. It was bad timing for DC though as they were still finishing up the Nolan Bat trilogy. However, rather than make a movie, see if it's successful and then decide to make another, they could have (quietly and in the background) planned out their entire slate or phases. Once Nolan had finished the Bat trilogy, they could have announced the first movie in the line-up and THEN, if the movie was good, announce the general plan going forward.

Kevin Feige is a master at working the press to his advantage and engaging with the fandom. Which is part of the reason fans have so much faith in the direction of the MCU; we know it is leading somewhere. They have so much goodwill that even movies that come out are judged to only be a moderate success (like Antman & the Wasp) people are still eager to see the next two, three, four movies that are coming out. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with the DC movies.

Agree with everything here. I haven't watched Gotham yet for really two reasons. I don't have time, and I've never been a huge Batman fan. The Dark Night Trilogy was (in terms of movies, and especially superhero movies) absolutely amazing, but because it was Batman, I don't care for them that much. I don't deny that they are amazing works of art though.

I know many many people don't care for Zach Snyder, but I think if they had let him do his thing, he could've gotten his version of the DCEU to a point where it was set up well, and was really well done. Might've taken a while, but so did the MCU. It's been in the making for over 10 years now, with (I believe) 19 movies and at least 3 more coming out next year. But they were definitely exactly what people wanted at exactly the right time. Even the X-Men movies are pretty good (though arguably not as good as MCU [IMO]), but again, they used something that people wanted to see (Wolverine) and did them well. DC is just struggling to not be in a hurry, which is a pretty big problem. They haven't had as much time to work, and have been pushing themselves too hard right now. I haven't disliked any of their movies, but WW is the only one that has been absolutely amazing so far.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 15, 2018, 03:34:26 AM
Gotham is actually really great and I wish more people would give it a chance despite the fact it has kid Bruce in it. It's more or less based on the Gotham Central comics. As crazy as it sounds a show about Gotham police efforts and a young Jim Gordon works and the creative ways they introduce and form the origins of villains is not only interesting but humanizes them in a compelling way but doesn't glorify their actions.

I've really enjoyed it.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: tx_tuff on September 15, 2018, 08:10:06 AM
Gotham started out slow but it is getting better and it's entertaining, which is why you watch anything.

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Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 15, 2018, 11:44:53 AM
I've given Gotham multiple tries... just can't get into. 


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 15, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I've given Gotham multiple tries... just can't get into. 

Same here. I’ve tried time and time again but I’m just not interested in it


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 15, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
I tried it for a few episodes. I think the fact that I know how it's going to go doesn't help. Gordon won't clean up Gotham, because it takes Batman to do that.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 15, 2018, 01:49:58 PM
Gotham started out slow but it is getting better and it's entertaining, which is why you watch anything.

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It is VERY slow to pick up. I have to say by season 3 it found its footing but I get people don't want to wait that long for something to become interesting especially with all the good shows available these days. Still the first two seasons had enough there to keep my interest because I liked a few of the characters and wanted to see how they progressed. Penguin for instance is one of my faves. Also I love Barbara Gordon's crazy lol


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 15, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
I tried it for a few episodes. I think the fact that I know how it's going to go doesn't help. Gordon won't clean up Gotham, because it takes Batman to do that.

I don't know about that! Batman has been trying to clean up Gotham for as long as Jim has. Even had to train a new Batman (Batman Beyond) when he got too old to do it! Lol


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 15, 2018, 02:05:39 PM
I don't know about that! Batman has been trying to clean up Gotham for as long as Jim has. Even had to train a new Batman (Batman Beyond) when he got too old to do it! Lol

Heh, yeah, good point. He does take down organized crime bosses, but new ones take their place. Either way, Jim Gordon won't do it before Bruce dons the cape and cowl. That's why the city needs Batman in the first place.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 15, 2018, 03:57:22 PM
I have the same problem with Gotham I had with Smallville.  Trying to set up a rogues gallery BEFORE the Hero even appears...just doesn't work for me.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 15, 2018, 03:59:08 PM
As the old saying goes, a hero is only as good as their villain. Yes, we want to see the heroes win, but a credible villain will push the hero to the limit, making their triumph all the more satisfying when it happens.

With Thanos, we have had 17 movies with the heroes, getting to know them and their personalities, foibles, quirks and passions. That's why they could afford to spend large parts of IW focussing on Thanos; we need to build him up as a credible opposition to all the heroes, as well as justify the super long build up to having him properly appear in a movie.

I agree with Joker though. That's one of the main reasons I don't watch Gotham (a Batman show without Batman).

I love Marvel and the MCU but I want DC to succeed as I love those characters too. Plus, more great comic book movies can only be a good thing.

As I said before, the MCU started at the right time. It was bad timing for DC though as they were still finishing up the Nolan Bat trilogy. However, rather than make a movie, see if it's successful and then decide to make another, they could have (quietly and in the background) planned out their entire slate or phases. Once Nolan had finished the Bat trilogy, they could have announced the first movie in the line-up and THEN, if the movie was good, announce the general plan going forward.

Kevin Feige is a master at working the press to his advantage and engaging with the fandom. Which is part of the reason fans have so much faith in the direction of the MCU; we know it is leading somewhere. They have so much goodwill that even movies that come out are judged to only be a moderate success (like Antman & the Wasp) people are still eager to see the next two, three, four movies that are coming out. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with the DC movies.

DC's run of films were great 20 + years ago. Back then, Marvel was struggling with Howard the Duck and the very first Punisher (even though I like this movie).  The Hulk and Avenger series was okay but left a lot to be desired in my opinion.  They didn't really make leeway until the Blade trilogies and then decided to pursue the Hulk and learned from their mistakes.

Marvel's new formula was planned out ahead of time and started with Iron Man in 2008 to introduce main and supporting characters like Nick Fury, Hawk eye, and Black Widow.  They then ventured into introducing the other characters like Thor, War Machine, the new Hulk, and Captain America before getting into the first Avengers which was the 6th movie in the MCU and the end of Phase 1.  

Unlike Marvel, DC started with Man of Steel, then Batman vs Superman and introduce Wonder Woman who just showed up before briefly launching the Wonder Woman movie followed by The Justice League after teasing characters like Cyborg, Aquaman, and the Flash briefly in Batman vs. Superman. Now, the Aquaman movie is coming out late this year while the individual Batman, Flash, Green Lantern and Cyborg movies are going to be released years after with no current time frame.

You can tell that they were rushed and they tried to follow Marvel's formula which didn't work well for them. Their current universe is a big mess with each movie leaving a lot to be desired minus the Wonder Man movie.  This is just my opinion of course, I did enjoy Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman and the Justice League on their own and hope that the DCEU will succeed.  Just as a whole, its a big mess and they really need to start their own formula and make movies without the dark night time vibes (which gives me the impression that day time doesn't exist), like they've been doing.  They really need to take the time to develop these character arcs since it did take Marvel 10 years to being out Infinity Wars and Thanos to the big screen while teasing this story line over the last 17 movies.


It is VERY slow to pick up. I have to say by season 3 it found its footing but I get people don't want to wait that long for something to become interesting especially with all the good shows available these days. Still the first two seasons had enough there to keep my interest because I liked a few of the characters and wanted to see how they progressed. Penguin for instance is one of my faves. Also I love Barbara Gordon's crazy lol

The Marvel shows on Netflix are the same, it took a while to build the character arc of each show in order to give the audience and non-comic book readers a glimpse of the character's past.  I think the most painful ones are Iron Fist and Jessica Jones since it took 4 episodes for Danny to prove his identity in Iron Fist and I didn't care much for Jessica's character arc, it was really slow going, even worse than the other three shows.  

With that said, I may start watching Gotham again since you mention that it will eventually get good.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 15, 2018, 10:10:21 PM
I have the same problem with Gotham I had with Smallville.  Trying to set up a rogues gallery BEFORE the Hero even appears...just doesn't work for me.

Ah, yes, that was the other thing. I saw somewhere yesterday where they had the Joker on the show. Sorry, I can't do it. Yeah, that bugged me with Smallville too. Well, that and everyone seeing that Clark Kent had super powers. I'm pretty sure they'd be able to put two and two together when both Clark and Superman showed up in Metropolis.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Silenoz on September 18, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
I've been reading rumors that they are considering Michael B. Jordan to replace Henry Cavill. Thoughts?


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 18, 2018, 09:26:50 PM
I've been reading rumors that they are considering Michael B. Jordan to replace Henry Cavill. Thoughts?

Personally, I'd say no. Besides the fact that I just like Cavill in the role too much, I feel like Jordan wouldn't fit as Supes.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 18, 2018, 10:05:58 PM
I've been reading rumors that they are considering Michael B. Jordan to replace Henry Cavill. Thoughts?
The reporting on this has been incorrect. Michael.B Jordan's name was on a shortlist of actors before they made the decision to cast Henry Cavill in Man of Steel. MJB is not in current discussion to take on the role if Cavill does indeed leave.


Title: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: tx_tuff on September 18, 2018, 10:22:55 PM
I've been reading rumors that they are considering Michael B. Jordan to replace Henry Cavill. Thoughts?
What are your thoughts on it?

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Title: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Silenoz on September 18, 2018, 11:05:21 PM
What are your thoughts on it?

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Being that I'm not really into Superman, I just thought it was an interesting choice since I've only seen him play a bad guy. The man is in seriously good shape, so he could definitely fill out the suit. I think it would be interesting to see if we live in a time where a black Superman would be accepted or not. I feel like were going to be seeing more minorities cast in traditionally white roles. I just hope it's because the actors truly serve the roles, and not just some forced attempt to be "progressive".


Title: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 19, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
Being that I'm not really into Superman, I just thought it was an interesting choice since I've only seen him play a bad guy. The man is in seriously good shape, so he could definitely fill out the suit. I think it would be interesting to see if we live in a time where a black Superman would be accepted or not. I feel like were going to be seeing more minorities cast in traditionally white roles. I just hope it's because the actors truly serve the roles, and not just some forced attempt to be "progressive".

I've never been the biggest Superman fan either, but from what I understand, on Earth-2, the superman is Val-Zod, who is black, and that is most likely who they'd go with if Jordan was cast. I do not think very many people would be okay with Kal-El being black. Honestly, I wouldn't want Kal -El to be black, but that is not because I have anything against black people, it is more of just when I watch a superhero movie, I want the characters to be exactly like I know them from the books (which I know is very hard to do, but that is still what I want), and because of that, I would have a problem with a black Kal-El. I hope that didn't offend anyone, I tried to word it so that it wouldn't. If I did, I apologize.

The reporting on this has been incorrect. Michael.B Jordan's name was on a shortlist of actors before they made the decision to cast Henry Cavill in Man of Steel. MJB is not in current discussion to take on the role if Cavill does indeed leave.

Thanks for that tidbit. I too have seen the rumors, but didn't know how much truth there was to them. It's always interesting to me that people can look up stuff and not see the date when it was written.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: scifidude79 on September 19, 2018, 12:37:49 AM
I think an actor should get the role based on talent. With Superman, you want someone tall and they either have to be a beefcake, or go the Christopher Reeve route and go on a serious weight regimen. Skin color and nationality shouldn't matter. Superman is a fictional character and can be whatever you want him to be.

I personally liked Michael B. Jordan in Black Panther and think he could pull off a great Superman, even if that was just a rumor. He certainly meets the basic criteria I laid out above for Superman. He's a couple inches shorter than Superman is in the comics, but so is Dean Cain. Christopher Reeve was actually taller than Superman was in the comics. So, he's well within that leeway area. And, he's certainly a beefcake and no stranger to action roles.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 19, 2018, 01:10:39 AM
Those comic books were written at a time when black representation in any format was extremely limited. Sorry but it's a fictional character and they change storylines and origins all the time depending on the universe. This focus on skin color and gender is getting a little out of hand. Other races and genders like to see themselves pictured in things as well. These characters are fictional so they're versatile and changeable as times change with them.


Title: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Silenoz on September 19, 2018, 01:39:31 AM
I've never been the biggest Superman fan either, but from what I understand, on Earth-2, the superman is Val-Zod, who is black, and that is most likely who they'd go with if Jordan was cast. I do not think very many people would be okay with Kal-El being black. Honestly, I wouldn't want Kal -El to be black, but that is not because I have anything against black people, it is more of just when I watch a superhero movie, I want the characters to be exactly like I know them from the books (which I know is very hard to do, but that is still what I want), and because of that, I would have a problem with a black Kal-El. I hope that didn't offend anyone, I tried to word it so that it wouldn't. If I did, I apologize.

Thanks for that tidbit. I too have seen the rumors, but didn't know how much truth there was to them. It's always interesting to me that people can look up stuff and not see the date when it was written.

I fully understand and respect your position on this TR. And just to be clear, the last story i saw about this was posted about 5 hours ago.
 https://heroichollywood.com/superman-michael-b-jordan-casting/




Title: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 19, 2018, 01:59:35 AM
I fully understand and respect your position on this TR. And just to be clear, the last story i saw about this was posted about 5 hours ago.
 https://heroichollywood.com/superman-michael-b-jordan-casting/




I read that as well but I'm taking it with a grain of salt until it's announced for now. I think MJB is happy in the MCU currently and I have a feeling that we haven't seen the last of Killmonger either.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 19, 2018, 05:48:49 AM
I think an actor should get the role based on talent. With Superman, you want someone tall and they either have to be a beefcake, or go the Christopher Reeve route and go on a serious weight regimen. Skin color and nationality shouldn't matter. Superman is a fictional character and can be whatever you want him to be.

I personally liked Michael B. Jordan in Black Panther and think he could pull off a great Superman, even if that was just a rumor. He certainly meets the basic criteria I laid out above for Superman. He's a couple inches shorter than Superman is in the comics, but so is Dean Cain. Christopher Reeve was actually taller than Superman was in the comics. So, he's well within that leeway area. And, he's certainly a beefcake and no stranger to action roles.

Those comic books were written at a time when black representation in any format was extremely limited. Sorry but it's a fictional character and they change storylines and origins all the time depending on the universe. This focus on skin color and gender is getting a little out of hand. Other races and genders like to see themselves pictured in things as well. These characters are fictional so they're versatile and changeable as times change with them.

Just for clarification purposes, what I said was my own personal opinion. I respect and understand what you both are saying, but I am allowed to have my own personal opinion. I'm really not trying to be rude or anything, I was just replying to what Selinoz asked. He asked for "Thoughts?", and so that is what I gave. Again, I'm not trying to be rude at all, just stating my own personal opinion. Please, please, please don't take it as anything more than that.


Title: Re: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: tx_tuff on September 19, 2018, 10:56:26 AM


Being that I'm not really into Superman, I just thought it was an interesting choice since I've only seen him play a bad guy.

If you have only seen him play a bad guy then you haven't seen to much of him.

If he did Superman that would be his fourth comic book role and his 2nd in the Justice League (if they used the same time line). Also the 2nd time he plays the role that was portrayed as white in the comics.

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Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 19, 2018, 12:19:22 PM
.


Title: Re: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 19, 2018, 01:10:47 PM
If you have only seen him play a bad guy then you haven't seen to much of him.

Exactly, I'd watch Fruitvale station and Creed which will give you a good start to get to know the actor and his talent. 


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Rashimotosan on September 19, 2018, 04:50:24 PM
Just for clarification purposes, what I said was my own personal opinion. I respect and understand what you both are saying, but I am allowed to have my own personal opinion. I'm really not trying to be rude or anything, I was just replying to what Selinoz asked. He asked for "Thoughts?", and so that is what I gave. Again, I'm not trying to be rude at all, just stating my own personal opinion. Please, please, please don't take it as anything more than that.

Fair enough. I just keep hearing that people are upset about the change because it isn't how they "envisioned" and it is then typically followed with the fact that part of the reason is that he is black (I know you explicitly stated the latter wasn't the case in your opinion--merely citing many others who have). Everyone envisions their favorite characters differently and sees part of themselves as that character. To say someone might be undeserving of a role merely because they don't fit your own idea of the fantasy is unfair to creators who intend for everyone to relate to the worlds they create in their own way.

Acting is taking on a role and convincing an audience. If the actor can't do that, then they're just not good, period. It shouldn't be solely on how others thought or hoped the character would look. But as others here have cited many of MBJ's other well-known roles, you may find he surprises you. Give him a chance (that's if he is indeed selected).


Title: Re: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Silenoz on September 19, 2018, 05:29:18 PM

If you have only seen him play a bad guy then you haven't seen to much of him.

If he did Superman that would be his fourth comic book role and his 2nd in the Justice League (if they used the same time line). Also the 2nd time he plays the role that was portrayed as white in the comics.

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This is why I asked you guys. I don't really know enough about MBJ or SuperMan for my opinion to matter much.

Exactly, I'd watch Fruitvale station and Creed which will give you a good start to get to know the actor and his talent. 

I'll have to check those out. He seems like an amazing actor from the one role I've seen him in.



Title: Re: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 19, 2018, 06:28:42 PM
This is why I asked you guys. I don't really know enough about MBJ or SuperMan for my opinion to matter much.

I'll have to check those out. He seems like an amazing actor from the one role I've seen him in.


Try Chronicle as well for another great movie fearuring MBJ at his charming best.


Title: Re: Re: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 19, 2018, 06:47:02 PM
Try Chronicle as well for another great movie fearuring MBJ at his charming best.

Chronicle is another good one.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: TheDutchman on September 19, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
One definitive instance that I would like to point out where a black actor played in the role of a white character was Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in the otherwise forgettable "Daredevil" movie.  Not only did he have the physicality of Wilson Fisk but he also brought forth the gravitas and panache of Kingpin.  He was the perfect choice IMO and was definitely the best part of that movie.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on September 19, 2018, 08:39:01 PM
One definitive instance that I would like to point out where a black actor played in the role of a white character was Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in the otherwise forgettable "Daredevil" movie.  Not only did he have the physicality of Wilson Fisk but he also brought forth the gravitas and panache of Kingpin.  He was the perfect choice IMO and was definitely the best part of that movie.

Yes indeed, I thought he portrayed a great Kingpin! Have a point, Dutch.

Another black actor who played a great character is Samuel L. Jackson’s Nick Fury.  He brought the character to life and when most people think about the MCU, he’s one that pops up and comes to mind. Him bringing the Avengers together starting with Iron Man and RDJ was the beginning of a universe we’ve all grown to love.  How many people felt hurt when they thought that he died in The Winter Soldier?  The entire theatre got quiet when they thought he was dealt the killing blow and everyone screamed in happiness when he reappeared later in the movie.  Besides, it’s freaking Samuel L. Jackson!


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Taegin Roan on September 19, 2018, 11:14:22 PM
One definitive instance that I would like to point out where a black actor played in the role of a white character was Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in the otherwise forgettable "Daredevil" movie.  Not only did he have the physicality of Wilson Fisk but he also brought forth the gravitas and panache of Kingpin.  He was the perfect choice IMO and was definitely the best part of that movie.

Very true. There are certain times and characters when I don't care, and this was definitely one of them.

Yes indeed, I thought he portrayed a great Kingpin! Have a point, Dutch.

Another black actor who played a great character is Samuel L. Jackson’s Nick Fury.  He brought the character to life and when most people think about the MCU, he’s one that pops up and comes to mind. Him bringing the Avengers together starting with Iron Man and RDJ was the beginning of a universe we’ve all grown to love.  How many people felt hurt when they thought that he died in The Winter Soldier?  The entire theatre got quiet when they thought he was dealt the killing blow and everyone screamed in happiness when he reappeared later in the movie.  Besides, it’s freaking Samuel L. Jackson!

Again, great example. Initially I had a problem with Fury, but he is so much different in the MCU than he was in any of the Sgt. Fury comics that I read that it didn't really bother me. To me he is almost a different character in the MCU. And seriously. It's Samuel L Jackson.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Knox on September 20, 2018, 08:30:32 AM
Again, great example. Initially I had a problem with Fury, but he is so much different in the MCU than he was in any of the Sgt. Fury comics that I read that it didn't really bother me. To me he is almost a different character in the MCU. And seriously. It's Samuel L Jackson.
the MCU Nick Fury is based on the character from Marvel's Ultimates universe, not the original prime universe. The characters are very different, with a few similarities.

Funnily enough, the Ultimate Nick Fury design was based on Samuel L Jackson (with permission from thr actor). When they were filming the first Ironman Marvel Studios approached SLJ to see if he would be interested in playing the role in the ppst credit scene, which was very meta because in the Ultimates comics Nick Fury said he would want SLJ to play him in a movie!


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Darth Tepes on September 20, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
the MCU Nick Fury is based on the character from Marvel's Ultimates universe, not the original prime universe. The characters are very different, with a few similarities.

Funnily enough, the Ultimate Nick Fury design was based on Samuel L Jackson (with permission from thr actor). When they were filming the first Ironman Marvel Studios approached SLJ to see if he would be interested in playing the role in the ppst credit scene, which was very meta because in the Ultimates comics Nick Fury said he would want SLJ to play him in a movie!

Which for those of us who were versed in the comics it was a huge moment.  I always have stayed until after the credits because so many films over the years have had funny little things afterwards.  So, sitting in the theater with my wife, my friend and his wife.  only ones who stayed, chit chatting about how great the film was then the post credit scene starts.  I hear SLJ voice and my brain does a quick calculation "If SLJ is in an Iron Man film...then that must mean.."  in tandem my friend and I, out loud, "No F*****g Way!"  (Out wives are looking at us like we're crazy at this point)  When he's revealed and drops the Avengers name...needless to say we were geeking out.  Which lead into a run down of who Nick fury was, what the Ultimate Universe was AND Who the Avengers were.  Great time to be a nerd.  Now...not as much


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: tx_tuff on September 20, 2018, 10:42:55 AM
In The Dark Tower book Roland Deschain was white, but was played by Idris Elba in the movie. Of course the movie didn't do great but trust me that's no fault of Idris Elba.

But come on I don't think anybody here, for sure not me, believes MBJ is Idris Elba or Samuel L Jackson!

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Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Jaymes1980 on October 02, 2018, 01:34:17 AM
I will be honest superman is awesome but Batman vs superman and the justice league I enjoyed. Didn't hear that Henry was off the role don't know why but here I go Google detective 🤣, it's a big mistake who's ever fault it is. Hugh Jackman leaving his role after like 18 years I was upset but he paid his dues to the character. Henry Cavill hasn't I thought he was a duche in new mission impossible movie but I guess his head is gassed. Good luck he will be doing life time moves in 2 years I bet.


Title: Re: HENRY CAVILL LEAVING SUPERMAN?
Post by: Infinit01 on October 02, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
the MCU Nick Fury is based on the character from Marvel's Ultimates universe, not the original prime universe. The characters are very different, with a few similarities.

Did you know that Marvel originally wanted SLJ to play Nick Fury in the MCU?  That's why they created the Ultimates universe Nick Fury with Sam's face on it to begin with.

.
Funnily enough, the Ultimate Nick Fury design was based on Samuel L Jackson (with permission from thr actor). When they were filming the first Ironman Marvel Studios approached SLJ to see if he would be interested in playing the role in the ppst credit scene, which was very meta because in the Ultimates comics Nick Fury said he would want SLJ to play him in a movie!

The Marvel's Ultimate universe Nick Fury is based on SLJ but he actually didn't know about it until he walked into a comic book store at saw his face staring back at him.  Once he called Marvel asking them "what the f**k is going on here" and why his handsome face is on a Marvel comic without his knowledge or approval, Marvel told him that they were making movies based on the comics and that they wanted him to be a part of it, which he agreed. Marvel pretty much created the comics to see how fans would react to SLJ's Nick Fury and got really good feedback even from the man himself.

I've always loved SLJ as an actor since I've first seen Jurassic Park and Pulp Fiction. Him being a huge comic book nerd and an awesome guy, it's a great feeling seeing him on the MCU