Saber Forum

Okay, I can't possibly be the only writer who's ever felt this way. There are times where I know I've set a character up for something terrible that will totally crush them... and then can't help but to pity the poor things (i.e. building comradery you know will end in betrayal, love interests you know will never work out, sending them out to be killed off, etc.).

What are some of the "worst" things you remember doing to a character?

Yep I know the feeling. Probably worst was what happens to Shilea in Children of the Aether...and Cilina as well...heck all of them. The entire series and both sequels Legacy and Fate are responses to that that don't resolve the trauma only make it worse and compound mistakes across generations. The whole incident in legacy on Vyth was pretty harrowing - a complete ugly mess for all involved where a naive girl made a wrong choice and many people died because of it. Wish I could retcon some things sometimes to spare them but the story would just be a utopia without it.

Wow, where to begin...
I knew G'av was going to be the sacrificial lamb in "Tarnished Knight" and I've had Zearic be one of the star pupils in the School of Hard Knocks (losing his forearm, left calf, left eye, right leg, always last in his class, surpassed by everyone...yeah) BUT it makes for great pathos  :)

Kazic is a man who is a great general but a horrible politician whose long life is FULL of regrets. Worse, he's had a millennium to reflect on them.  His saving grace is his last adopted family.

The one I feel the most for is Jorya: tortured, mutilated, betrayed and that's just by age 12.  Then as a young woman she (and Ken) are thrust into circumstances that force them to grow up very quickly indeed.  Now, she's lost her mother (the "rock" in her life) and has other things coming down the pipeline that I don't want to ruin...

Of special note is Aresaea and Saani.  Adoptive daughter to a loving mother (who is sterile), they were together for years, then separated only to see each other again a year later...but everything is different.  And will only get worse.

And there are upcoming events that will lead to even more deaths and calamities but I don't want to give away too much  :D

Yes, the fates of Shilea and Cilina are the Flashpoints that really kick LSG's epic into gear.  But Vyth...there's a reason WHY the Mak'Tor remember it as "The Tragedy of Vyth."  But in actuality, it's a tragedy for EVERYONE involved.

Again: GREAT writing!

LOL poor zearic is a bit of a punching bag and even when he get 'renewed'...its still not all roses. 


Its actually good timing Lady Revan brought this up as these very events will play a pivotal role in the next few chapters of FotA in a (hopefully unexpected way) - if it were a Bond film it would be termed Fate Never Dies.

But yeah art imitates life, people suffer for no reason, trauma is never fully resolved, people end up broken and forever changed, and that amplifies across their responses to new situations in ways that perpetuate more desolation.

Oh, I haven't yet done a much that I have wished I hadn't (there will be some soon though). The biggest one I can think of is with Ethan Playn. He really deserved a better end than he got. The only other thing I have really done is killed Denna Eem. He was really the first SW character I created, and because of that, I have a huge amount of love for the character. But it was less of the killing him and more of the effect it had on Taegin Roan afterwards. And then I guess there is a bit with Rowahn that we have yet to see, but at the same time some that we have already seen and that will tie in to what is to come. The battle between Rowahn and Zearic/D'Aylanna tore him down so much but we haven't really seen the effects of it. Yet...

In another universe (actually my superhero universe), I have a couple things that will happen (if I ever get around to writing them), but I can't really tell, because I don't want to spoil it for anyone who may read them someday.

Ooooh, "Fate Never Dies"  You're such a tease LSG; now I REALLY can't wait to see where FotA takes us next!

I have to say, I think that is STILL one of my most favorite scenes!  And I love the opposing perspectives (TR's idea  ;D)!

Oh, this is a really good topic. I first started writing when I hit my teens and so many stories were "peaches and cream" as I like to call it. No stakes, no deaths, no real development because of it. I might end up posting a few of the stories on here eventually so without spoiling a whole lot: I've eliminated rather violently the love interest of my main character who shares my forum name (Saso) and that contributes to his utter hatred of the Jedi and all they stand for. In an unrelated SW story a family loses their daughter aboard the Death Star and the eventual realization scene is rather heartbreaking. The whole story was inspired by that classic stormtrooper t-shirt where he stands there mourning "I had friends on that Death Star." I love that there is a ton of heartbreak in Star Wars if you actually break apart each tragedy separate from the obvious main characters and what they go through.

I can't say I've felt sorry for my character in my forum story, but I guess I feel a bit for them in my other works. For example, the main character in my published work got pretty well dumped on in the 2nd book (beatings, fingernail torture, intentional bites by venomous spiders, etc.) While I do feel a bit bad for what I did to him, I have to admit I had a ton of fun writing it all. Does that make me a sadistic person?

nah, you just have imagination (maybe a hint of sadism)

I'm nowhere near finished but most of my characters will end up dead by the main dude's hands, and many of them will be rather violent.

I know this is going to sound odd at first but ... I feel sorry for what I've done to my "namesake" character, Karmack.  Particularly as we work through the current story, What You Leave Behind, what he's leaving is any chance of ever having a normal life again.

Ever.

And deep down inside, he knows it.  And he's doing it anyway, because its the only chance so many OTHER people have of ever having a normal, peaceful life.

Beyond that?  Probably the star-crossed romance of Talia and Illian, and how it ended.  But as LSG pointed out, these kinds of things happen in life.  Not writing them makes your stories utopian.  One of my favorite SciFi series is written by David Weber, around a character named Honor Harrington.  I won't give away tons of spoilers, but I will say that many of the prominent characters he develops eventually get killed.  Not all ... but many.  Its painful, but it adds the grit of reality to the story.

The key is to use it well.  I always felt like I didn't get enough out of Illian's death.  That whole story, Zealots, was not as well plotted and planned as I would like.  Just a bit to rushed....
And that's the real regret.  :-)   Not that they die ... but that they don't die well....

I'd say that add to the realism of Zealots, it was almost a comedy of errors how stuffed that mission got, and that is what happens in real life, people get into situations they are ill prepared for and it costs them - mistakes are permanent and not everyone does out in a blaze of glory, some just a whimper. 

True enough.  I just wish I'd PLANNED it that way!  :-)

This is EXACTLY what my take away was from Zealots (PERFECT descriptor LSG  ;))

In fact Karm, that's one of the reasons that Ilian's death is so tragic: his life was extinguished too soon and not in a "glorious" way at all.  Just like in life.  You may not have planned it BUT you WROTE it that way, and for that: I APPLAUD you Karm.  THAT was a good writing decision and gave gravitas and realism to the narrative.  Awesomely done my friend!

Thanks Dutchman.  :-)  Hopefully the NEXT time I write that kind of disaster it will at least be intentional!  But you guys are right, Zealots was a mess, and in a sense I did intend it to be a mess, but the original intent was toss the characters into an unplanned situation and have them triumph.  I didn't expect it to quite devolve as it did, but then the story took on a life of its own (as they often do) and that's where we ended up. 

Ah, poor Illian...   

I’m so glad this topic is getting so much love! I feel like I’m learning so much about all of you as writers!


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This is indeed a fantastic topic LR!  Thank you for posting it  :)

Honestly, I canNOT recommend to you enough that you read each authors' stories.  I think I can say impartially that those are superior to many canon books, comics, and even movies.  I am humbled by the collective works in the Fan Fiction Section and consider them among my most favorite stories.  Ever  :D

I love what you have done with Karmack. He is such a great character, and has developed so much since We Are Gray. I think the fact that you are willing to damage him both physically and mentally like you are doing is the mark of a truly great writer.

As for Illian, I hated not only to see him go, but for him to go in that way. And that is exactly why I love his death so much. And then the fact that you basically glossed over it for a while, and then brought it down in both Karm and Talia's lives at around the same time was absolutely beautiful. Yes, Zealots was a bit of a mess, but like LSG said, that is definitely a part of what makes it so good and realistic.

You’re welcome! I was sitting here writing things that I know are going to end terribly (doesn’t help that this is the point in the story where everything really begins to go awry) and so it’s reassuring to hear about other authors’ experiences with the same thing.

And I knoooooow! I’m just so busy right now I barely have time for my own story. I’m a full time Master’s Student and it’s currently midterms week. I have a list going of the things I need to read lol. Is there a specific order I should do? I know a couple of the things are part of a series...


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Well, thank you.  I appreciate the encouragement, and I'll do my best to keep it real.  :-)

I need to read some of your work Karmack, it sounds really interesting.

I can relate with post-grad and midterms  ;)

For specific order, I'd read it thusly:  Karm's "We Are Gray" then his "Hide and Seek"   Then I'd start with LSG's "Children of the Aether" and TR's "Shadow of the Outcast"  Next, I'd suggest "Tarnished Knight" and then "Wind Chimes/Shadow Etude" (they are companion pieces).  Next would be "Orphan of the Aether" followed by "Legacy of the Aether"  And then, in particular order: "The Gray and Unchained"  "Zealots"  and then "Reunion"  After that, "Fate of the Aether" "Brothers" (can be followed up by "War Journals" for more details for the "Brothers" characters), "Jokers Wild" and finally culminating with "What You Leave Behind."  Somewhat more "stand-alone" are "Schisms" and "Storms of Exodus" although chronologically "Schisms" follows the events of "Fate of the Aether" indirectly.  

Whew!  And although it looks daunting, I can virtually guarantee that you'll be VERY glad that you read the stories like that (the shared continuity REALLY bringing each author's "A" game  :)).  Point of fact, I would HIGHLY recommend that for EVERYONE reading!  These gentlemen (and ladies  :)) have shared some truly remarkable narratives!

Oh GF, believe me, his stories ARE really interesting  :D

You will NOT be disappointed!

Well...

I have a lot of reading ahead of me. and thanks for the list Dutchman, this will really help me. point!

Goodness!  I had no idea we'd accumulated such a library!  :-)   Nice list, and that is indeed the best reading order.

GF, don't feel overwhelmed or obligated, but do enjoy!  :-)

I will! and I am about to post the intro to my own story, Invictus

I’ll have to add yours to the list then too in between all of the other reading! I look forward to seeing what you come up with.


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Another way of looking at it is chronologically with SW universe.

Clone Wars Era

For Tyeth New series

Zyns untouchable series currently in progress

Galactic Civil War/Empire Era

The Stories about Karmack and Zearic (We Are gray, Hide and Seek, Tarnished Knight, Shadow Etude, Wind Chimes, Zealots, Reunion, Gray and Unchained, Jokers)  These joint arcs culminate in What You Leave Behind which is currently in progress.

Taegins Shadow of the Outcast which has some cross over with Zearic character.

Drunken Consular Brothers and War Journals which also crosses over with the Zearic family of characters.

Old Republic Era

Shadow Exodus which takes place at the end of the New Sith Wars (c. 1000BBY Darth Banes era)

The Aether Series (Children, Orphan, Legacy and Fate - see first post of Fate for a detailed list and other interludes) For those wondering Aether is what the protagonist race the Aethans call the Force.

Schisms Vhal Dan civil War - history of Zearics Grey Order of Knights occurs in line with the Aether series and continues past and crosses over with it.  

There is some overlap between the two era's developing in What You Leave Behind as well.

And the one I just posted, Invictus, that is taking place about 70 A.B.Y. after the First Order/Resistance era. I look forward to attempting to tie my writings into all of your amazing stories.

Oh wow! I guess I’m technically first, chronologically speaking then. Currently 3963 B.B.Y. Current chapter covers battle of Serrocco and the Adasca Affair.... And Halin is finally going to take up the mask.



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Yup.  I don't think anything except maybe an interlude or two goes back further.  I wrote an Interlude that hinted at the very beginnings of the Mak'Tor once, set on Coruscant before the planet was covered by city.   That was WAAAAAY back.   But as I said, it was only an interlude, not a real story.  :)

I actually have a few ideas on how to include "Halin Chan" in the Forumverse continuity...but only if Lady Revan is OK with it  ;)

And if not: no hard feelings at all  :)

Either way, I'm enjoying ALL of the stories that have been posted!  Thank you one and all  :D

Oooo! Do share! I’m certainly open to ideas.


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LOL   Let the cross-pollination begin!  :-)

Sometime I may go through and start a thread just about the different stories and reading order. I'll probably do a Chronological timeline and an Order-of-Release timeline. We will just have to have someone modify the posts everytime a new story is written.

Also, Shadow of the Outcast is not yet completed, but I am working on it. I just currently have almost no time to even forum, so yeah. Hopefully the next chapter will be up before the end of the month, but we will have to see how it goes (hopefully sooner, but not counting on it).

And always worth waiting for!  :-)

Looking forward to it Taegin. also I was wondering, do the fanfictions all have to be Star Wars or could they be something else?

Since I'm not a mod or anything, I don't know for sure, but I think it would probably be SW. If you wanted to do on from something else you could post it in the Off-Topic section. Again, I don't know that for sure though.

ok. I'll probably pm someone later this week.

Yeah, I'd hit up someone on the Mod Squad.  Hmm.   We don't even have a mod for this forum.  LOL  Never really needed one. 

My take?  I'd stick to SW-related material.  That's been the rule in other areas, outside of the "off topic" threads.  :-)

I'm inclined to agree with Karm in this regard.  Always best to err on the side of caution IMO  ;)

I just wanted to verify that I replied to your PM about the idea. It’s not showing in my outbox, so I wasn’t sure if it sent.

Yes Lady Revan I got your PM and thank you!  :)

I hope that you got mine in return  :D

Yes I did! I’m practicing a choreography i came up with for the end of part2 (Revan VS Bastila) but I’ll give it a more thorough read-through afterward


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L2A1, Rakham Crescentfall's maniacal custom battle droid and her last stand at the hands of the Imperials.  I've thought of bringing in an L2A2, but I think it would cheapen the original character.

I sent you a different but related thing


I should probably also send you the different related thing, so I'mma do that now

I feel really bad about this, but in one of my other stories that I haven't posted yet, I make the main character kill his best friend while he is under the control of the sith lord. and then when he is released from the Sith Lord's control, he remembers killing his friend and enjoying doing it.

That’s messed up
As messed up as that is.... It seems like an interesting plot.

Agreed. 

GF, I'd encourage you to post that story; not only excellent pathos but also (as LR stated) an interesting plot  :)

I only have the concepts written out and I do not even know where they are (they were on paper) but if I find them I will most certainly begin work on it. but I think I'll get through at least chapter 5 of Invictus first. but it will happen (

Dude, that is terrible. So excited to do some cross-over stuff with people (if I ever finish SotO ::) ).

I would love to do crossover stuff, but nobody else's story is in my time-frame  :(

Yeah, I keep forgetting that. It is such a cool concept for a story (the FO winning) but the time-frame is a problem for crossovers (right now). You might could check with TheDrunkenConsular. He may have a story that takes place in that timeline, though I don't know that for sure.

I may do that. Also to anybody who reads this, I am more than open to any and (almost) all crossovers.

I would say I would love to, but sadly my story is ancient history compared to the rest of you :(


THIS BEING SAID, there are workarounds (i.e. remnants of the past that can be dug up), so if you have an idea, feel free to approach me. I'm open to brain storming if anything. Dutchman and I have come up with a few ideas together already involving stuff like this. I'm sure we could figure out something together too if you wanted to collaborate.

Yeah i have a small idea that could easily go across millenia, I'll PM y'all

Ooooo! I look forward to hearing!

Open to x-overs here, as well. Given Order 66 just dropped in my story, I'm sure Zyn would like some real Force-user company.

As a side note, I'm putting together a 4th book in my non-SW series, and I just gave one of my main characters a rather gruesome injury regarding his lower leg. Kind of feel bad about it, as he's been nothing but helpful for everyone else, but he's also been the only one I haven't truly s*** on in this series. Don't want him feeling left out or anything  :D

Well, then, we will have to fix that!  :-)   

LOL    Here come the Aethans....   ;-)

I have a couple of ideas concerning both of your timelines, should you be interested  :)

Sail it over, I'll bite

kinda sad. I lost the drafts for my older story (the one mentioned on the last page) but I remember a lot about it so I'll try to remake it

Ouch. I can only recommend backups. Redundant backups if you have the means.

I've gotten burned on this a couple of times.  I write and save my files on a thumb drive, and I make a full back-up of the thumb drive on another thumb drive every week, sometimes more often if I'm doing a lot of writing.

Actually, withing the first year after the Purge, I could do something. After that, everything is either ~0-5 ABY (GCW era). I would love to do some crossovers sometime, but I really really need to finish SotO before I start with anything big.

I normally do my writing away from home (read: in my spare time at work), so everything I have is on a jump drive which I keep on me at all times. I do daily dumps to my home machine, as well as to an external drive, and an internet-based service (shout out to Evernote for having my back!)

Can never be too careful when it comes to technology

Even with Paper instead of technology you still have to be careful. My epic Phantom of the Opera fanfic I co-authored with my best friend was a paper draft, 2 inch notebook handwritten that needed to be transferred because it was overflowing... and one day it just disappeared. I’m convinced my mom took it and got rid of it, but she still denies any involvement.

I contacted my friend and made her come up with an ending with me so I could be at peace knowing how the story would have ended. So my main character was stabbed to death by the rape child she’d abandoned at an orphanage 8 years prior (yes, the kid was 8 years old when he killed his own mother) who had been picked up by the man who murdered her father and had been stalking her her entire life. She was trying to finally come to terms with everything, but the kid didn’t understand any of that—only that she had abandoned him and never forgave her for it. My friend’s main character then, in a fit of rage, chases them fleeing the country and murders both the man and the kid. When he returns, his crimes are discovered and he’s finally captured and given a public execution (which in 19th century France means guillotine) (he was wanted for several other things before this too)

....and that whole story is probably some of the darkest stuff I’ve ever done to characters, even to get them to a point where that could have been their end. My mind scares me sometimes....

I use Google Docs for writing. Basically Word but can be accessed anywhere anytime. Plus I would have to buy Word if I wanted to use it now (not worth the money). My sister uses Evernote, but I don't care for it that much.

Much like my process.  When I get busy at work (like now) it can also be very frustrating, though, because I don't seem to get anything done!  LOL

The only thing I use it for is a Dropbox substitute. I do all my writing w/ Word (still have an only version I don't have to pay monthly for) or on Google Docs with my Chromebook, but I always copy it to my flash drive, my home machine, and Evernote

Hi Everyone,

Slightly off topic but may I suggest getting LibreOffice to do your writing on?
It is a full office suite of software (Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Database and Graphic Design/Desktop Publishing programs) and is TOTALLY free, does 99% of what MS Office does and the best part it is updated regularly.

It uses Open Document Format so files created with it should work in most of the other available processors. But maybe for the busy people who write when they travel, there is a Portable version that can be stored on a USB stick or mobile device.

I use LibreOffice all the time and actually passed some Microsoft Office courses using it!

Kingsoft does the same thing. 99.99% Office, it's free, and has not problem opening, using, and saving Office docs

Yeah, I'm afraid I can't add anything to this discussion.  My nephew works for Microsoft, so...    *shrugs*

Hi Karmack,

Don't worry I'm not knocking MS Office (or 365 whatever they call it now) I have used both. I just have a very limited income and low specification laptop so can't afford to upgrade my machine or pay for MS licenses and so use open source quite a bit.

I do prefer Microsoft Word, unfortunately, I am not willing to spend the money on it. Google apps has basically everything you could need, and all you need is a Google account (gmail).

Google works well.   I have also used Open Document in the past and it was very satisfactory.  I really only have Office Suite now because my nephew literally gets it for free and sends several of us in the family links to 365 to keep us current.  So ... why not?  LOL

I think Microsoft is easier to use for formatting (and heck, I get it free because of my university), but google has the convenience factor of being able to access anywhere. I’ve connected my Microsoft account so I can access from my laptop or phone, but that still requires having either. I’ve started carrying around my laptop more as a result, but it’s a gaming laptop and kind of heavy >.>

Technically I could get access to Word through my Uni as well, but I don't really need it since I am using Google for everything. Plus, I wouldn't be using it for personal stuff, only school.

I love how this topic has shifted from terrible things you put characters through to which word processing systems you prefer XD


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Every thread on this forum has gone off topic at least once. ;D

So I've noticed! lol

what I am about to put Tyr through in Invictus.

THIS! That feeling when you know you’re about to put them through something awful....

Times you felt sorry for your character: Everything that's happening and is about to happen to poor Malak... And what I've started planning for Opela. Dx And what I'm planning for Revan post war... No one is safe. Not even Talon... or Arren... They're all doomed.