Title: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 14, 2019, 01:13:01 PM (http://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/destin-daniel-cretton.jpg?w=1000&h=563&crop=1)
Marvel Studios has hired Destin Daniel Cretton to direct “Shang-Chi,” its first superhero movie with an Asian protagonist. Cretton is currently directing “Just Mercy,” starring Brie Larson and Michael B. Jordan. Dave Callaham is writing the script that will ultimately modernize the Shang-Chi story and character arc. The original Marvel Comics Shang-Chi features Shang, a half-Chinese, half-American superhero created by writer Steve Englehart and artist Jim Starlin. In the comics, Shang-Chi is a master of numerous unarmed and weaponry-based wushu styles, including the use of the gun, nunchaku, and jian. Shang-Chi first appeared in Special Marvel Edition #15 in 1973. Marvel Studios’ Kevin Feige is producing the film. Marvel’s Louis D’Esposito, Victoria Alonso, and Jonathan Schwartz are executive producers on the project. Marvel recently released its first female-led movie, “Captain Marvel,” which has over-performed with more than $500 million in worldwide grosses in less than a week. It stars Larson, who collaborated with Cretton on 2013’s “Short Term 12” and 2017’s “The Glass Castle.” In addition to Jordan and Larson, Cretton already has other ties to fellow filmmakers in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. He previously worked with “Black Panther” director Ryan Coogler, with whom Cretton developed the television series “Scenes for Minors.” Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: tx_tuff on March 14, 2019, 07:45:18 PM Don't think I have ever read one if the comics, but sounds pretty cool.
Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: scifidude79 on March 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM I don't know the character but I love martial arts movies, so I'm game. It's good that they're bringing more diversity into the MCU.
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 14, 2019, 10:48:01 PM It's good that they're bringing more diversity into the MCU. Have a point for this. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 15, 2019, 12:27:57 AM Thank you, fellas. It means a lot to see a hero in the MCU that looks like me that isn't a doctor, IT, or owner of a cleaners or Asian restaurant.
For those that aren't familiar with the character or the series, here's a write up that I posted for him back in December Shang-Chi is a Chinese assassin who was raised and trained by his father, the immortal crimelord and sorcerer, Fu Manchu aka Zheng Zu who tried many times to take over the world with mind control chemicals and other means. He's very diverse in various forms of martial arts and is much deadlier than Iron Fist and Black widow. From the Marvel Power Grid of character powers, his is as follows: Intelligence: 3 Strength: 2 Speed: 2 Durability: 2 Energy Projection: 1 Fighting Skills: 7 Iron Fist and Black Widow are rated at 6 for each in regards to fighting skill but their durability are a bit higher than Shang at 3 versus his 2. Shang has beaten the world's best and skilled martial artists simultaneously along with super humans alike. His great strength and chi allows him to strike his opponent with inhuman force giving him the ability to break through barriers that characters like Hulk or Luke Cage can only break like brick, concrete and iron and able to withstand physical impacts almost to a superhuman level. I know, I know, he sounds like Bruce Lee, but wait!!!! There's more!!!!! He's a skilled gymnast, trains under the most rigorous physical training exercises, reacting fast enough to dodge gunfire and catch weapons being thrown at him. Speaking of weapons, he's highly proficient with all martial arts weaponry such as the jian (Chinese double edged sword), butterfly swords, oxtail swords, staves, Katana, and both single and double nunchaku. He also uses make shifts weapon or anything around his environment. Shang can control his nervous system on demand to deaden his body to pain, resist the effects of drugs or poisons, limit the spread of toxins in his blood stream, and even slow down his bleed rate if he suffers a wound during combat. He can do all of this while still engaging his enemy or opponent He knows and locates different pressure points on a person's body to incapacitate, paralyze, severely injure, or kill a person. Back to his history, Shang's father's arch enemy, Denis Nayland Smith who started life in Britain as a police commissioner but eventually joined MI-6 after crossing paths with Fu Manchu and stopping his world taking schemes. He was knighted but was crippled by Fu Manchu who had his legs crushed. Years after his retirement due to his "injuries", he meets Fu Manchu's son, Shang-Chi after Shang slayed Dr. Petrie during a mission. Smith told Shang the truth about his father and convinced him to join MI-6 to fight against his father. Shang eventually convinced Smith that his paralysis was psychosomatic and Smith was able to walk again. This goes back to Fu Manchu's mind control schemes. Shang-Chi has teamed up with Luge Cage, Iron Fist, Misty and Collen in the Heroes for hire series. He's also joined the Avengers after the Avengers vs. X-Men event when Captain America and Iron Man wanted to build a new bigger and stronger Avengers team. Shang was one of the first to be selected for this new team. Of course, Tony being Tony, he took advantage of Shang's hand-to-hand combat expertise and equipped him with his own personalized equipment Shang has also fought along side Wolverine, SHIELD, Silver Sable, Immortal Weapons (Iron Fist, Steel Serpent, Prince of Orphans, Tiger's Beautiful Daughter, Dog Brother, Crane Champion, Iron Fist (Orson Randall), Bride of Nine Spiders, Tiger Empress) , Defenders, Shadow Council, The Secret Avengers, and a few more. You're probably wondering why I know so much about this character but in all fairness, I know a lot about most characters, the most popular to the not so popular but when I first saw his series in the comic book store, I knew that I had to learn more about Shang-Chi. And it's not just because that in some of the front covers, Shang looked like Bruce Lee. Wink Being a Marvel comic book reader, card collector, and anything that I could get my hands on as a kid growing up where comics where a luxury to me. I hardly saw any Asian heroes like Iron Man, Wolverine, or even Batman and Superman. I would imagine that I was them just like everyone else but and Asian version. When Bruce Lee became the Green Hornet or Jet Li's Black Mask, I was psyched since it was the first time I saw Asian super heroes as a kid. Sure, one of the first Black superhero movie just came out and there's no taking that away from my black brothers and sisters. It's just that there have been more Black heroes whether they're "side kicks", supporting characters, or main heroes, there have always been more heroes of other colors than Asians. I know, for the longest time, society views Asians as "small and weak" and it's now time to get us out of the norm. Many movies, books, comics, and races replicate us, get into our culture, traditions and even way of life and religions. But for the most part, society and Hollywood never viewed us as any hero type. This comic series gave me a lot of hope as a kid and is one of a few reasons why I work out and joined the Marines since it gave me a sense of strength giving me the feeling that I can do what anyone else can. Points to everyone :) Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 15, 2019, 09:57:48 AM Who would win in a hand-to-hand fight: Shang-Chi or Captain America?🤔
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 15, 2019, 07:35:21 AM It all depends and keep in mind that Shang-Chi was inspired by Bruce Lee. In fact, he even looks like him in the comics.
Cap can lift 800 LBs effortlessly due to the super soldier serum so he’s much stronger than Shang; however, on the power rating, Shang is 7 out of 7 for fighting while Cap is 6 out of 7. Cap doesn’t lose much but he has before and if he doesn’t use his shield, he’ll have a disadvantage against Shang who is a Master of Many Martial Arts. Rogers is at peak human durability, peak human strength which is beyond any human, peak stamina, and a healing factor that almost rivals Deadpool. Long term fights with Steve and he would have the advantage since he doesn’t tire out like most humans. His super human speed is another thing to pay attention to and although his speed matches with Shang, it’s hard to argue that he would be slower after a long fight since again, he doesn’t tire easily. Shang is strong for a man his age , being able to lift 350 LBs but with use of his Chi, he can temporarily increase hi strength which comes to his advatge during a fight. His great strength and chi (qi) allows him to strike with inhuman force enabling him to break through barriers such as brick, concrete and iron, withstand physical impacts almost to a superhuman degree, and ease all forms of pain and discomfort. Shang has stalemated Iron Fist in single combat, with the two martial artists portrayed as equals while Black Panther stated Shang-Chi is better than Rand. For T’Challa to say this about someone else, is a great feat since the King himself is a great martial artist and only have a few rivals. Shang is also highly skilled with all hand combat weapons like swords, nunchaku, and shriyukens but is also a deadly marksmen. Stark designed a special nunchakus that has a repulser blast which can discharge when the weapon contacts and enemy All and all, the fight would be close if it’s hand to hand only and while Steve has the upper hand when it’s coming to having the strength, stamina, healing factor, and durability, Shang has the speed, agility, and fighting skills that will rival The Iron Fist and the Black Panther I say Shang but if the fight lasts much longer, Steve Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 15, 2019, 04:34:18 PM Hasn't Cap mastered several fighting styles too? Could have sworn I read that somewhere and he combined them into a unique combat style. (Although I could be wrong). He's definitely more than just the shield.
That being said, I agree with you. Shang-Chi for the win unless the fight doesn't end quickly. Then thanks to Cap's will/heart/durability he wins. Next up: Shang-Chi vs T'Challa (without his suit). Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 15, 2019, 06:16:53 PM Cap has mastered several martial arts and made his own. Shang-Chi is a Grand Master of Kung Fu but also mastered all forms of Asian Martial arts and use a combination of them all as his own as well.
Give me a bit to get back to you on Shang versus Black Panther. It's a really good one since they're both great martial artists and T'Challa is a force to be reckoned with Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 15, 2019, 06:27:49 PM Cap has mastered several martial arts and made his own. Hasn't Cap mixed in other fighting disciplines too like boxing, judo etc? Give me a bit to get back to you on Shang versus Black Panther. It's a really good one since they're both great martial artists and T'Challa is a force to be reckoned with Indeed. And I had to stipulate "without the suit" before someone chimed in about the invulnerabilities of vibranium blsh blsh blahTitle: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 15, 2019, 06:39:15 PM Hasn't Cap mixed in other fighting disciplines too like boxing, judo etc? Yes, Judo and boxing are his two primaries Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 15, 2019, 06:46:25 PM Yes, Judo and boxing are his two primaries For those who are interested:Captain America is said to be a master of every form of martial art, but confirmed to be a master in at least 50. However, It is well known that Captain America has a go to unique fighting style, which is mainly based around his shield and combinations of Judo and American-style boxing. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Taegin Roan on March 15, 2019, 07:59:26 PM Well, in a fight between Cap and Batman, they tied, and Batman has said that he ultimately thinks Cap could beat him. Whether or not Shang-Chi is better than Batman, I have no idea, seeing as the extent of my knowledge of the character comes from what Infinit has told us. I think Cap could win, but I also think Shang-Chi could win. It would be a good fight for sure.
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 15, 2019, 08:09:40 PM Well, in a fight between Cap and Batman, they tied, and Batman has said that he ultimately thinks Cap could beat him. Whether or not Shang-Chi is better than Batman, I have no idea, seeing as the extent of my knowledge of the character comes from what Infinit has told us. I think Cap could win, but I also think Shang-Chi could win. It would be a good fight for sure. From the interwebs:Batman has proper training in every martial art in the world, according to comics, but he relies heavily on his own style, Keysi. This style is a synthesis of all he has learned, and is considered as brutal a martial art as Krav Maga or MMA. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: scifidude79 on March 15, 2019, 10:27:17 PM There are a few better martial artists in the DC Universe than Batman, including Lady Shiva. Batman won't even tangle with Shiva unless he absolutely has to, because he knows she's so powerful. But, yes, Batman is considered to be one of the best in the DC Universe. However, if Shang-Chi is as good as Infinit says (not doubting you, bro) it might be really interesting to pit him against Lady Shiva. It sounds like she might be on his level more than Batman is.
Oh, and Batman defeated Captain America on Death Battle. While not definitive and people often question their conclusions, they do gauge a character's powers and abilities going all through the characters' histories to try and determine who would win. I believe in terms of fighting Batman and CA were pretty evenly matched in that battle, but Batman got him in the end with his gadgets. In a fair fight without his gadgets, it's harder to say who might win. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 16, 2019, 03:05:07 AM Believe it or not, Shang-Chi and T'Challa have been the topic of discussion from fans alike for decades. According the the Marvel Fandom Wiki, below are the Power Grids for each character. Yes, it's a Wiki and yes people change them out anytime, however, this Power Grid ratings are from the Marvel collector cards of which I've cross referenced them to verify that they are correct.
Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 2 Speed 2 Durability 2 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 7 Black Panther Power Grid Intelligence 5 Strength 3 Speed 2 Durability 3 Energy Projection 3 Fighting Skills 5 (http://pm1.narvii.com/5820/e9b8082678e72abbc2e21298d00a38ff0723c781_hq.jpg) Keep in mind that Shang-Chi is based on Bruce Lee and before Bruce Lee died, there were talks about turning him into a Marvel Superhero before the whole Green Hornet movie came out. Sadly, Lee didn't live long enough for that to happen. I digress Back to it, T'Challa would be another formidable fighter against Shang since he is highly trained in various martial arts as well. But just like how the comics depicts Shang, there is not many people who will rival him in hand to hand or weapon combat. Now, he's not the strongest nor the smartest character as those aren't his strengths. He's even bested the Iron Fist himself and although he were neck and neck, T'Challa himself called the fight and stated that Shang won due to many points within the fight. So far, Iron Fist has been a fearsome and great fighter since he was trained by the monks that protects and train Iron Fists of the past. It would be refreshing to see a hero that isn't just a side character and isn't shown as being weak Don't get me wrong, I'm not biased at all, I'm going by the comics and trading cards for all of my reasoning and characters, using facts from Marvel themselves. Black Panther and Cap are two of the strongest and best fighters in the MCU so far at least until Captain Marvel came out but she's more powerful in a cosmic way than combat even though she can hold her own. Shang will be a fresh and new character for the MCU and will finally be a character that I can relate to although Gemma Chan did get to play Minn-Erva but she's a Kree so that doesn't count for us Asian folks. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 16, 2019, 11:28:16 AM Lots of great research there, but you never stated who you thought would actually win.
although Gemma Chan did get to play Minn-Erva but she's a Kree so that doesn't count for us Asian folks. It's same with Zoe Saldana playing Gamora.Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 16, 2019, 02:33:43 PM I didn't, didn't I? I would say, although T'Challa himself would put up a good fight with or without any of his suits, ultimately, Shang would of won since he's ranked higher and has mastered more forms of martial arts and have been known to have mastered the "first form of martial arts" beyond any human can. Now, that doesn't mean that T'Challa lost easily. As you can see, he's a force to be reckoned with, He has the speed, durability beyond Shang and if he can keep those up and going, Shang would have a hard time to bring him down. Shang's ultimate strength relies on all of his mastered forms of martial arts and not his physical strength since it's about as average for a human male for his size and age
T'Challa on the other hand has super human strength, speed, agility that's only matched by the likes of Steve Rogers, Bucky Barnes, etc. since they're all part of the super soldier program minus the King of Wakanda of course. I'd say in a hand to hand, T'Challa would have the upper hand for half of the fight but would fail to deliver the fatal blows needed to take down Shang since Shang would see his blows coming and would block them even if he's much slower. Shang would get the upper hand at the end and win if by just a slight margin as from all the Marvel characters, T'Challa would be the one that would be the hardest for Shang to fight, much harder than the likes of Danny Rand, Cap or any other highly skilled martial artist Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 16, 2019, 02:46:29 PM LIES! I demand a recount!
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Tepes on March 18, 2019, 12:20:41 AM There is one aspect everyone is discounting. Experience. One of the trade offs in real life is aging...But Cap..... He's got decades (not counting being in Ice) of experience in combat over Shang added to his physical attributes. So while I don't think it would by any means be an easy fight....Cap would ultimately win. Bu of course it would depend on which outcome furthers the plot :P
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: scifidude79 on March 18, 2019, 12:46:57 AM Cap also has hyper intelligence, as his super soldier serum not only brings his body to the peak of human potential, but his mind as well. However, even with his serum neutralized, he's been shown to be very intelligent and posssssing an excellent tactical ability, which is also enhanced by his serum. So, basically, the serum takes what you already have and enhances it. That's why Red Skull is bat**** crazy with the enhancement of the serum, he was already crazy in the first place.
So, basically, if he could hold his own in the fight, and all signs point to yes, he should be able to out think an opponent. But, this is all moot, as CA and Shang-Chi are likely going to be on the same side. (if CA is even still alive then) Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 18, 2019, 01:10:36 AM Experience is one thing but just because you never heard of the character doesn’t mean that he has no experience. Skill and talent are still skill and talent. Look at Irin Fist, he trained all of his life and didn’t leave Kung Lun until adulthood but still kick butt when needed.
Captain America’s great and don’t get me wrong, he’s still a formidable fighter Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 3 Speed 2 Durability 3 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 6 Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Tepes on March 18, 2019, 01:38:23 AM Experience is one thing but just because you never heard of the character doesn’t mean that he has no experience. Skill and talent are still skill and talent. Look at Irin Fist, he trained all of his life and didn’t leave Kung Lun until adulthood but still kick butt when needed. Captain America’s great and don’t get me wrong, he’s still a formidable fighter Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 3 Speed 2 Durability 3 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 6 I never said I didn't know who Shang-Chi was.... My dad had more than few of his comics (Master of Kung Fu) from the late 70s. Nor did I say he had no experience at all. But Cap is a 90 year old Soldier and Warrior in the Genetically Enhanced Body of a 20 year old. Shang is, as exceptionally skilled as he is, a normal man...and a young man with barely 20 years experience in combat. Caps Physical advantages (Strength, speed, height ), his mental (as Scifi said, his brain is just this side of a tactical computer) and his Experience give him quite the edge over Shang. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 18, 2019, 05:10:35 PM Experience and size don't mean everything. There's always someone stronger (not in all cases), faster, and better.
In the Heroes for Hire comics, Luke Cage and Cap are beaten one character rather easily. (https://i.ibb.co/gFTnTMX/Heroesfor-Hire11.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/w75n36M/Heroesfor-Hire12.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/7K374WW/Heroesfor-Hire13.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/PcyZgRG/Heroesfor-Hire14.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/4KBhv0R/Heroesfor-Hire15.jpg) But here comes Shang-Chi who takes him out with almost easy. This guy is skilled enough and had the gadgets to not only take out Cap and others but was unharmed during the battle. Yet Shang-Chi still holding his breath, beats him. (https://i.ibb.co/L9VZtW9/Heroesfor-Hire16.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/TB5jQDS/Heroesfor-Hire17.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/VjdDvMZ/Heroesfor-Hire18.jpg) I'll just agree to disagree. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Karmack on March 18, 2019, 05:37:45 PM Cap vs Shang-Chi... Wow.
That fight would go down one of two ways. Either its very quick (and I mean maybe 20 seconds long, tops) and Shang-Chi wins due to his superior knowledge and skill levels, or the fight becomes a long, drawn-out, epic battle. In that scenario, Steve wears him down and eventually defeats him with his superior physical attributes. Now .. which would happen? That depends entirely on ... the writer. ;-) Seriously, there are so many intangibles in any fight this kind of statistical stacking simply could not predict an outcome. I think its saying a LOT about Shang-Chi, though, that he is a match for Cap and could go toe-to-toe with him. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 18, 2019, 05:43:47 PM As I've said he'll lose in strength alone but if it's a fight with knowledge of the arts, he'll win
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 18, 2019, 10:40:06 AM As I've said he'll lose in strength alone but if it's a fight with knowledge of the arts, he'll win So using my knowledge of the Renaissance period, I can beat Shang-Chi? Awesome!!Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Tepes on March 18, 2019, 10:58:36 AM Experience and size don't mean everything. There's always someone stronger (not in all cases), faster, and better. In the Heroes for Hire comics, Luke Cage and Cap are beaten one character rather easily. (https://i.ibb.co/gFTnTMX/Heroesfor-Hire11.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/w75n36M/Heroesfor-Hire12.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/7K374WW/Heroesfor-Hire13.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/PcyZgRG/Heroesfor-Hire14.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/4KBhv0R/Heroesfor-Hire15.jpg) But here comes Shang-Chi who takes him out with almost easy. This guy is skilled enough and had the gadgets to not only take out Cap and others but was unharmed during the battle. Yet Shang-Chi still holding his breath, beats him. (https://i.ibb.co/L9VZtW9/Heroesfor-Hire16.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/TB5jQDS/Heroesfor-Hire17.jpg) (https://i.ibb.co/VjdDvMZ/Heroesfor-Hire18.jpg) I'll just agree to disagree. Like I said before...within the context of the story the outcome will be that which will further the plot. In one comic Superman moves a planet in the next he struggles to hold up a building. So when doing the whole 'Who will win" I will never cite nor do I consider any times they have fought in the comics...because again it will all depend on the plot and writer. I will go by official stats, skills etc. Also using real world examples. But yea...we'll just agree to disagree then. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 18, 2019, 11:03:21 AM I will go by official stats, skills etc. Also using real world examples. You're bringing the real world to a comic book fight? Anyone else get Sean Connery in The Untouchables flashbacks? :DTitle: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Tepes on March 18, 2019, 11:19:36 AM You're bringing the real world to a comic book fight? Anyone else get Sean Connery in The Untouchables flashbacks? :D Yes..Yes I am. When pitting two opponents together, real or otherwise, I will use information I have. Which includes real world similarities. I have seen a younger man with more "Skills" (I.E. Practice in multiple disciplines) get his ass handed to him by an older fighter that had not trained in as many disciplines...but had been in way more fights. "Beware an Old man in a young man's profession." as an old saying goes. Cap's experience combined with his stats and skill set will always give him an edge in any fight and when those are the parameters...that's what I will go by. For clarity this is dispassionate for my part. I like Cap but he is no means a favorite character of mine. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Infinit01 on March 18, 2019, 06:38:18 PM Okay, let's do stats
Shang-Chi Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 2 Speed 2 Durability 2 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 7 Captain America Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 3 Speed 2 Durability 3 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 6 Once again, Shang-Chi will win over fighting alone. Cap will win over strength alone. I'm going off of comic stats and what I read not on opinion alone. They're not too far off from each other; however, Shang shines in fighting over Captain America. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Tepes on March 18, 2019, 11:39:41 AM Okay, let's do stats Shang-Chi Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 2 Speed 2 Durability 2 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 7 Captain America Power Grid Intelligence 3 Strength 3 Speed 2 Durability 3 Energy Projection 1 Fighting Skills 6 Once again, Shang-Chi will win over fighting alone. Cap will win over strength alone. This is a comic book discussion, not sure why the real world is even brought into the mix. I'm going off of comic stats and what I read not on opinion alone. Again....one aspect doesn't not matter as much as the whole. I've explained my position multiple times and this conversation is going no where. So for the sake of the thread not getting derailed I will take my leave of it. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Karmack on March 18, 2019, 06:48:04 PM One thing I think needs to be pointed out about the Paladin attack. First, it was a sneak attack, launched with meticulous preparation against a target who trusted the attacker as an ally. And the position of Cap as the primary target actually is what allowed Sheng Chi to escape notice and launch his counter-attack. Which was then a 'turn-the-tables' kind of thing, with Paladin relaxing and thinking he'd won only to be ambushed in turn by Sheng-Chi.
Neither of these are what I would call a stand-up fight. :-) I'm going to say it again, because it IS a 'comic book' fight: the fight will go as it is needed to go by the author of the book. I think its more than enough to say that these guys are in the same league. That's saying a LOT, considering that Cap does have some 'super hero' advantages - specifically the super-soldier serum and its effects on him - and as I understand it Sheng-Chi does not. He's just hyper-trained, like Batman. :-) Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 18, 2019, 11:51:53 AM Yes..Yes I am. When pitting two opponents together, real or otherwise, I will use information I have. Firstly, I was joking. Secondly, the information in regards to this "what if" scenario is about the two characters themselves. Real life should have no bearing.I think its more than enough to say that these guys are in the same league. That's saying a LOT, considering that Cap does have some 'super hero' advantages - specifically the super-soldier serum and its effects on him - and as I understand it Sheng-Chi does not. He's just hyper-trained, like Batman. :-) That's very a true. A testament to Shang-Chi. Although, doesn't Cap's serum just take him to the peak of human abilities? So, while he may heal quickly (not Deadpool or Wolverine levels) and be strong, he's not super-human. All in all, I think it will be a great battle no matter who wins. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Karmack on March 18, 2019, 07:42:35 PM I think the actual effect of the super-soldier serum is open to some debate. Cap heals very fast, can move much faster and is much stronger than a normal person. I believe it also sped up his mental process as well, so he literally thinks faster than everyone else. His reaction times are likewise improved.
If they're just to peak human levels, then he isn't technically "super-human" like a Wolverine or Deadpool. But I know some have interpreted the serum's effects as super-human. For example, he can't get drunk because of the regenerative abilities of his cells. So he was fundamentally altered at the cellular level. I tend to think of him as super-human for that reason. But there's a huge gray area to wiggle in, since he is still human. And he's not bleeding blue and firing photon bolts like Captain Marvel, for example. :-) So... Lets just agree to say that Cap is the ultimate peak of human performance. WAY beyond normal human abilities and prowess, but still human. Scheng-Chi does not have the advantage of the serum, so his real maximums in areas of strength, speed, endurance, etc is well below Cap. But he has wider experience and deeper knowledge of techniques as well as more actual developed skills at his disposal than even Cap, who has more application experience but a narrower skill-set so-to-speak. At the risk of breaking the comic-book/reality barrier again, I find myself considering a sparring match between myself and my eldest daughter. Lainey is on the cusp of testing for her 3rd degree, I am only six months past my own 2nd degree test. She is in better shape overall than I am and she has a much wider training base, having trained extensively in Ju-Jitsu and Wang Chung as well as Jeet Su Do in addition to our "native" karate. I have some cross-training with Ju-Jitsu and Krav Maga. But Lainey is 5'2" and weighs maybe 140lbs. I am 6'4" and weigh 385lbs with the muscle to back it up. What does a fight between us look like? Lainey dances around me raining techniques, and I block and wait for an opening. She scores a few hits ... and then I knock her down. If she comes in close, I hammer her. If she back out, I can catch her with kicks if I pick my spot. She can win if she's very lucky. It has happened once. By one point. Usually I win 10-3 or 10-4. The one time we tried a full contact bout (her idea) she ended up on her butt outside the ring after a front-snap kick to the chest 3 seconds after the "Go" was called. That was considered a TKO. If we want to think of this "realistically" Cap would be in a similar position with Sheng-Chi. Stronger, faster, tougher, "heavier", able to deliver and take far more punishment, and able to THINK faster. Sheng-Chi would have to be simply amazing just to stay in shouting distance. So... In the comics? Circumstances would dictate, but he's got a great shot and has a 50/50 chance. Stats? Same. If he can make Cap fight his fight, he wins. If he fights Cap's fight, he loses. In an MCU-style "realistic" matchup? He's toast. Not hopeless, but at a definite disadvantage. But, assuming Sheng-Chi knows the fight is coming ... he would be able to plan for it, so ... Yeah, back to near parity, but edge to Cap. Actual winner? Well, that's going to be decided by the margins. They're just to well matched. Everything being even? I still give Cap a slight edge. He stays alive and outlasts Sheng-Chi, wearing him down physically until his superior strength and endurance prove decisive. Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Taegin Roan on March 18, 2019, 09:02:47 PM I would consider Cap to be "enhanced" rather than "Super" or "Human". Somewhere in between the two.
Title: Re: Marvel’s First Asian-Led Superhero Movie, ‘Shang-Chi,’ Finds Director Post by: Darth Knox on March 18, 2019, 09:07:15 PM But, assuming Sheng-Chi knows the fight is coming ... he would be able to plan for it, so ... *Cue training montage*(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFrMLRQIT_k#) |