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General Chat => Fan Fiction and Art => Topic started by: DarthRegol on April 07, 2020, 07:12:39 PM



Title: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 07, 2020, 07:12:39 PM
So my friend and I have come up with a story idea:
This takes place during TCW Era
Essentially the main character is Sai'le Wredna who is a human Jedi...one who is more attuned to the dark side naturally, but wants to uphold Jedi traditions.  He is very powerful, almost too powerful so the Council has him lead a squad of...sort of black ops jedi who use unconventional methods of fighting (saberstaffs, tonfasabers, force weilding multiple shoto sabers etc).  Sai'le himself uses a duel wielding style, along with a personalized combo of Ataru and Makashi.  He proves himself enough that he is granted an Padawan: Avani, a twilek girl.  One of his squad, Naroh, develops feelings for Avani, and is pursuit of his feelings he denounces the council and asks Avani to come with him but her loyalty is stronger to her master.  Naroh takes it as well as he can, but humiliated he joins the Sepratists as a Sith assassin.  The council orders Sai'le and his squad to track down Naroh and either kill or capture him. Naroh manages to kill most of the squad until Sai'le has a chance to kill him, but hesitates, allowing Naroh to strike a fatal blow at him, which is intercepted by Avani, taking the blow herself. Drivin by rage, Sai'le taps into the dark side but is wounded and Naroh destroys his sabers, but allows him to live out of sorrow for his murdered love..Sai'le crawls over to his dead padawan, and takes her lightsaber, and in a surge of dark side energy the crystal turns red and Sai'le becomes fully open to his dark side...driven by his new determination for revenge...

Thats part one...we have part two but I want to hear what people think of the plot first and see if I should change some things up.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Karmack on April 07, 2020, 07:36:53 PM
I am intrigued.   My experience has been that the key to any good story is that it be in some way character driven.   This certainly seems to fit the bill, and I for one look forward to reading more!  The exploration of a character that is drawn to the dark side of the force while also being drawn to uphold a more traditionally "good" moral base would be fascinating.   Especially if, as many of our forum members postulate for their own personal avatars, this character finds a way to balance the Sith view of the force with a morality and ethics that are generally taken as "good" by those around him.

This may not be where you're going in the end, but ultimately the character's journey is the point.   :-) 

So lets go on a trip!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 07, 2020, 10:09:05 PM
Good overall story board,
some mods I would make are more character progression and just set up e.g.

"He is very powerful, almost too powerful so the Council has him lead a squad of...sort of black ops jedi who use unconventional methods of fighting"

sounds a bit unlikely, if the council is worried about dark side leanings and abilities putting him in charge of black ops Jedi seems the last thing they would do given their conservatism.  Perhaps if he starts off with a dark side leaning not as strong as it becomes later i.e. the council might umm and aah a bit but decide he is no darker than say Master Tholme or Quinlan Vos (EU) and his skills fit.  would also be a better fit for assigning a padawan perhaps with an express goal of having him develop a more empathetic connection to the force (which is distinct from empathetic personality of course)

Then as the war progresses that dark side connection he finds the most useful for achieving his goals as each mission passes, perhaps add in a Council 'handler' whom Sai'le Wredna reports to and their relationship gets progressively worse as the war goes on to add another layer of tension and conflict, perhaps Sai'le begins to find himself 'hamstrung' byt the rules the 'Handler' imposes on him, like he is fighting with one hand tied behind his back, so when chaos erupts within his squad he is already primed and frustrated ready to slip more to the dark.

Anyway just some thoughts, if you ever want to discuss it or get some tips feel free to PM any of us saberfourm fanfic authors, and definietely check out these for some stories with somewhat similar concepts


Storms of Exodus - plenty of high stakes comabt and war scenes - http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=39517.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=39517.0)
Gray and the Unchained - http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0) - for Avani and Naroh, the characters here Ken and Jorya are also younger Knights finding their place as well as black ops type missions. http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 12:02:27 AM
Good overall story board,
some mods I would make are more character progression and just set up e.g.

"He is very powerful, almost too powerful so the Council has him lead a squad of...sort of black ops jedi who use unconventional methods of fighting"

sounds a bit unlikely, if the council is worried about dark side leanings and abilities putting him in charge of black ops Jedi seems the last thing they would do given their conservatism.  Perhaps if he starts off with a dark side leaning not as strong as it becomes later i.e. the council might umm and aah a bit but decide he is no darker than say Master Tholme or Quinlan Vos (EU) and his skills fit.  would also be a better fit for assigning a padawan perhaps with an express goal of having him develop a more empathetic connection to the force (which is distinct from empathetic personality of course)

Then as the war progresses that dark side connection he finds the most useful for achieving his goals as each mission passes, perhaps add in a Council 'handler' whom Sai'le Wredna reports to and their relationship gets progressively worse as the war goes on to add another layer of tension and conflict, perhaps Sai'le begins to find himself 'hamstrung' byt the rules the 'Handler' imposes on him, like he is fighting with one hand tied behind his back, so when chaos erupts within his squad he is already primed and frustrated ready to slip more to the dark.

Anyway just some thoughts, if you ever want to discuss it or get some tips feel free to PM any of us saberfourm fanfic authors, and definietely check out these for some stories with somewhat similar concepts


Storms of Exodus - plenty of high stakes comabt and war scenes - [url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=39517.0[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=39517.0[/url])
Gray and the Unchained - [url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0[/url]) - for Avani and Naroh, the characters here Ken and Jorya are also younger Knights finding their place as well as black ops type missions. [url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=37226.0[/url])
Definitely! I think you brought up some great points there, perhaps rather than in charge that "black ops" is more of a way for the jedi to keep all there assets but potential threats in one place under watch by a master or two?


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 12:31:32 AM
So now that some have responded...the original idea for part two was that Sai'le would be captured by Sidious and seeing Sai'le's rage and power, Sidious would offer to train him personally in the dark side under the promise that Sai'le would no longer serve the Jedi order but instead the Sith as Darth Regol, which, in his current state, Sai'le accepts without hesitation.  Sidious trains him and Darth Regol quickly becomes a master of using the dark side excelling to red lightning (im gonna have to find some filler here but not necessary at this time) and then as a test, Sidious has him track down Naroh who has deserted the Separatists and kill him. Stronger than ever before and with new powers, Darth Regol defeats Naroh and is about to take his life, but once again hesitates, the Jedi way of mercy that was ingrained into him since he could remember resurfacing once again.  In his pity, he strikes out at Naroh with lightning, but leaves him alive.  Upon returning to Sidious, he admits his weakness, but Sidious brushes it off and says that his new task is to journey to Mustafar and kill the Separatists (bear with me I'm not plagiarizing).  When Darth Regol arrives, the Separatists are already dead, and Anakin standing over their bodies.  Neither know what to do, as both sense the dark side in the other.  Then Sidious appears in a hologram telling Anakin that his final test is to kill Darth Regol, proving him stronger in the force and the dark side.  Though Darth Regol realizes that this was all Sidious wanted out of him, he is determined to prove him wrong, and at least put up vicious fight.  In the end the inevitable happens and Anakin strikes him down, and leaves him to die, calling him a more worthy opponent than the entire Order.  The last thing Darth Regol sees before losing consciousness is Anakin walking out of the fortress.

This is part 2 of three! Yes there is a third part!
Also this is just concept, I realize that much of this seems cliche but Feedback please!! 


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 12:34:26 AM
I am intrigued.   My experience has been that the key to any good story is that it be in some way character driven.   This certainly seems to fit the bill, and I for one look forward to reading more!  The exploration of a character that is drawn to the dark side of the force while also being drawn to uphold a more traditionally "good" moral base would be fascinating.   Especially if, as many of our forum members postulate for their own personal avatars, this character finds a way to balance the Sith view of the force with a morality and ethics that are generally taken as "good" by those around him.

This may not be where you're going in the end, but ultimately the character's journey is the point.   :-) 

So lets go on a trip!
Thank you! Oddly the way I wanted him to go changed so many times, Naroh's path was originally what Sai'le's is and vice versa...I hope you enjoy the part two plot!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 08, 2020, 12:46:01 AM
Definitely! I think you brought up some great points there, perhaps rather than in charge that "black ops" is more of a way for the jedi to keep all there assets but potential threats in one place under watch by a master or two?

Perhaps with  more sinister intent, all these 'dark leaning' Jedi that want to fight but are unsuitable for working with clones placed together for dangerous missions with a mentality that even if they get killed it rids the council of a problem...like a suicide squad...cold but I can see it being more probable as a way to make use of the fringe Jedi as the war heats up. As they come to realsie this it would certainly make them more willing to turn.....

So now that some have responded...the original idea for part two was that Sai'le would be captured by Sidious and seeing Sai'le's rage and power, Sidious would offer to train him personally in the dark side under the promise that Sai'le would no longer serve the Jedi order but instead the Sith as Darth Regol, which, in his current state, Sai'le accepts without hesitation.  Sidious trains him and Darth Regol quickly becomes a master of using the dark side excelling to red lightning (im gonna have to find some filler here but not necessary at this time) and then as a test, Sidious has him track down Naroh who has deserted the Separatists and kill him. Stronger than ever before and with new powers, Darth Regol defeats Naroh and is about to take his life, but once again hesitates, the Jedi way of mercy that was ingrained into him since he could remember resurfacing once again.  In his pity, he strikes out at Naroh with lightning, but leaves him alive.  Upon returning to Sidious, he admits his weakness, but Sidious brushes it off and says that his new task is to journey to Mustafar and kill the Separatists (bear with me I'm not plagiarizing).  When Darth Regol arrives, the Separatists are already dead, and Anakin standing over their bodies.  Neither know what to do, as both sense the dark side in the other.  Then Sidious appears in a hologram telling Anakin that his final test is to kill Darth Regol, proving him stronger in the force and the dark side.  Though Darth Regol realizes that this was all Sidious wanted out of him, he is determined to prove him wrong, and at least put up vicious fight.  In the end the inevitable happens and Anakin strikes him down, and leaves him to die, calling him a more worthy opponent than the entire Order.  The last thing Darth Regol sees before losing consciousness is Anakin walking out of the fortress.

This is part 2 of three! Yes there is a third part!
Also this is just concept, I realize that much of this seems cliche but Feedback please!! 

Yeah I personally wouldn't go there, messes too much with Canon. Dooku however is well known for recruiting jaded Jedi Quinlan Vos and Sora Bulq, notable from the Dark Horse Clone Wars Comics, maybe look into Dooku and Sora Bulq on wookiepedia.

I think you can get some solid cannon connection there and you have more freedom with what you do with the characters than Sidious.  In the stories I've done I've alluded to some canon characters but never featured them prominently for that reason (e.g. only appearance of Palpatine is in a vague force vision across 600 years).

Plus you want this to be your story and your event's trying to tie it into canon events limits what you can do and makes it feel forced, the galaxy is a big place, the Clone are occurred over thousands of systems explore that, lots more freedom to do what you want.

Just my opinion of course.

 


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 12:53:51 AM
Perhaps with  more sinister intent, all these 'dark leaning' Jedi that want to fight but are unsuitable for working with clones placed together for dangerous missions with a mentality that even if they get killed it rids the council of a problem...like a suicide squad...cold but I can see it being more probable as a way to make use of the fringe Jedi as the war heats up. As they come to realsie this it would certainly make them more willing to turn.....

Yeah I personally wouldn't go there, messes too much with Canon. Dooku however is well known for recruiting jaded Jedi Quinlan Vos and Sora Bulq, notable from the Dark Horse Clone Wars Comics, maybe look into Dooku and Sora Bulq on wookiepedia.

I think you can get some solid cannon connection there and you have more freedom with what you do with the characters than Sidious.  In the stories I've done I've alluded to some canon characters but never featured them prominently for that reason (e.g. only appearance of Palpatine is in a vague force vision across 600 years).

Plus you want this to be your story and your event's trying to tie it into canon events limits what you can do and makes it feel forced, the galaxy is a big place, the Clone are occurred over thousands of systems explore that, lots more freedom to do what you want.

Just my opinion of course.

 
Totally understand. Of course this was the original idea, its changing every five min.  I did consider Dooku as a master at first but it seemed over used...
I understand the messing with canon problem, which is why I tried to mirror it with canon so there weren't any major holes, but I'm still playing around with it. I could nix Sidious and have it be Dooku, but then Dooku dies and Darth Regol is still there, so I don't know where to go then.  I also really want him to fight Anakin and lose showing even more the pure strength of Darth Vader.  But this is why I put it on the forum! All crit is appreciated and welcome!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 12:58:18 AM
But I just had a thought...It's possible that maybe Sidious simply leads him to a Sith Holocron (maybe Bane or Revan or Nhilus) and leaves him to his own devices, and...hmmmm...something something something...he doesnt train him himself, rather presents the opportunity for the new Darth Regol to learn on his own, and Darth Regol's natural power with the dark side is a perfect receptical to the teachings of the past Sith, and thats when he tracks down Naroh and then so on.  Maybe he travels to the temple rather hoping for redemption but then finds it under siege and thats when he fights Anakin and therefore he can be lost in the crowd after being cut down.

Then part three.
How's that for an edit?


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 08, 2020, 01:05:29 AM
Totally understand. Of course this was the original idea, its changing every five min.  I did consider Dooku as a master at first but it seemed over used...
I understand the messing with canon problem, which is why I tried to mirror it with canon so there weren't any major holes, but I'm still playing around with it. I could nix Sidious and have it be Dooku, but then Dooku dies and Darth Regol is still there, so I don't know where to go then.  I also really want him to fight Anakin and lose showing even more the pure strength of Darth Vader.  But this is why I put it on the forum! All crit is appreciated and welcome!

I think, thematically, a better way is for if it is Dooku, him to be a bit, 'hands off' offering only the very occasional scene, that way your character develops on his own more. If I was doing it I would do it this way....
here the Handler is whichever Jedi is overseeing the balck ops/sucicide squad whatever taks force of bad eggs.
-After Part 1 Sai'le is blamed personally for the events with Avani and Naroh by the Handler and demoted
- Becomes frustrated darker and darker and evenutally absconds to seek out Naroh
- Naroh meanwhile has joined up with the Sepratists, Dooku using him possibly under Bulq or similar
- Sai'le tracks down Naroh through the war, confronts him with with Dooku present, Dooku doesn't interfere, Naroh asks for help, by definition this makes him appear weak, Sai'le wins Dooku makes offer playing on his rejection etc. saying he can become so much more etc. etc.
- Gets deeper and deeper into darkside etc.
A more fitting finale is rather than Anakin (yet) now self proclaimed Darth Regol fights his former handler who chides him to see what he has become, how he knew he was rotten from the start etc.

I'd have Regol versus Vader later on, perhaps a guilty attempt to right his wrongs by defeating Vader and the Emperor that fails utterly if you're going for a redemption story that is.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 08, 2020, 01:07:11 AM
But I just had a thought...It's possible that maybe Sidious simply leads him to a Sith Holocron (maybe Bane or Revan or Nhilus) and leaves him to his own devices, and...hmmmm...something something something

better idea, but I think just letting him develop darkside power by instinct ie letting go of Jedi dogma is even more interesting, that was it is all within him, much darker tone in my opinion and more powerful character development.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:10:33 AM
better idea, but I think just letting him develop darkside power by instinct ie letting go of Jedi dogma is even more interesting, that was it is all within him, much darker tone in my opinion and more powerful character development.
Hmmmm true!  Maybe both! Dooku and a Holocron?


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:11:51 AM
I think, thematically, a better way is for if it is Dooku, him to be a bit, 'hands off' offering only the very occasional scene, that way your character develops on his own more. If I was doing it I would do it this way....
here the Handler is whichever Jedi is overseeing the balck ops/sucicide squad whatever taks force of bad eggs.
-After Part 1 Sai'le is blamed personally for the events with Avani and Naroh by the Handler and demoted
- Becomes frustrated darker and darker and evenutally absconds to seek out Naroh
- Naroh meanwhile has joined up with the Sepratists, Dooku using him possibly under Bulq or similar
- Sai'le tracks down Naroh through the war, confronts him with with Dooku present, Dooku doesn't interfere, Naroh asks for help, by definition this makes him appear weak, Sai'le wins Dooku makes offer playing on his rejection etc. saying he can become so much more etc. etc.
- Gets deeper and deeper into darkside etc.
A more fitting finale is rather than Anakin (yet) now self proclaimed Darth Regol fights his former handler who chides him to see what he has become, how he knew he was rotten from the start etc.

I'd have Regol versus Vader later on, perhaps a guilty attempt to right his wrongs by defeating Vader and the Emperor that fails utterly if you're going for a redemption story that is.

and I for sure like the fighting his old handler!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:17:14 AM
Part 3 og idea was that Naroh saves Sai'le from death, and though they are still at odds, they stick together for survival, and part three is not fleshed out after that. My friend and I had an idea that the pair would come across a force sensitive child many years later and try to become teachers, both wanting to train them a different way. The story is in a concept phase, and other than that, we decided that Vader would eventually track them down, and Sai'le confronts him once more, and this time he loses, and Vader takes his life, but the fight allowed Naroh and the new child to escape


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Taegin Roan on April 08, 2020, 01:18:47 AM
I will admit, the premise has me intrigued. I haven't had time to sit down and think about what could make it better though. I'll for sure be keeping abreast of any develoments.

Perhaps with  more sinister intent, all these 'dark leaning' Jedi that want to fight but are unsuitable for working with clones placed together for dangerous missions with a mentality that even if they get killed it rids the council of a problem...like a suicide squad...cold but I can see it being more probable as a way to make use of the fringe Jedi as the war heats up. As they come to realsie this it would certainly make them more willing to turn.....

Along these lines, this "suicide squad" type thing does seem like something the Jedi Counsel could commission. After reading Dark Disciple and seeing the darker sides of some of the characters (Ki-Adi Mundi specifically), it doesn't seem too far fetched. But maybe it could be something where the Republic (i.e. Papa Palps) "requests" a more elite squad from the Jedi to send on more dangerous/covert missions. Then Palps could technically still be influencing Sai'le, but not quite so directly, and he could still run into Dooku, and retrieve "artifacts" before the CIS does.

I don't know if that made sense or not. ::)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 08, 2020, 01:20:26 AM
Hmmmm true!  Maybe both! Dooku and a Holocron?

Could do, if I recall Dooku in the comics gave Quinlan Vos a holocron so he might have one to spare, something that encourages him down a dark path...possibly for its own purposes...the holocron could almost become his new 'companion' e.g. Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd...

and I for sure like the fighting his old handler!

Yeah the best fight scenes are where the two combatants know each other very personally, Vader/Anakin is good but without a personal connection (which is highly unlikely again due to canon) it just won't have that same dramatic tone.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:21:23 AM
I will admit, the premise has me intrigued. I haven't had time to sit down and think about what could make it better though. I'll for sure be keeping abreast of any develoments.

Along these lines, this "suicide squad" type thing does seem like something the Jedi Counsel could commission. After reading Dark Disciple and seeing the darker sides of some of the characters (Ki-Adi Mundi specifically), it doesn't seem too far fetched. But maybe it could be something where the Republic (i.e. Papa Palps) "requests" a more elite squad from the Jedi to send on more dangerous/covert missions. Then Palps could technically still be influencing Sai'le, but not quite so directly, and he could still run into Dooku, and retrieve "artifacts" before the CIS does.

I don't know if that made sense or not. ::)
It did actually! and I like it!  I can see many ways to incorporate all of these amazing ideas, I'll keep updating changes, and eventually open a thread of the actual story!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 08, 2020, 01:23:15 AM
I will admit, the premise has me intrigued. I haven't had time to sit down and think about what could make it better though. I'll for sure be keeping abreast of any develoments.

Along these lines, this "suicide squad" type thing does seem like something the Jedi Counsel could commission. After reading Dark Disciple and seeing the darker sides of some of the characters (Ki-Adi Mundi specifically), it doesn't seem too far fetched. But maybe it could be something where the Republic (i.e. Papa Palps) "requests" a more elite squad from the Jedi to send on more dangerous/covert missions. Then Palps could technically still be influencing Sai'le, but not quite so directly, and he could still run into Dooku, and retrieve "artifacts" before the CIS does.

I don't know if that made sense or not. ::)

Yes I think Palpatine would encourage more active Jedi role as more Jedi in dangerous missions means more die, which is one fot he main goals of the whole war to thin Jedi ranks as much as possible. In his role as Chancellor of course he would be all against the idea of risking lives un-necessarily, but that is his whole Act at that point in time, secretly he's doing happy dances more Jedi will die. Could make a good cameo scene, ties into canon but doesn't force it.  


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:24:27 AM
Could do, if I recall Dooku in the comics gave Quinlan Vos a holocron so he might have one to spare, something that encourages him down a dark path...possibly for its own purposes...the holocron could almost become his new 'companion' e.g. Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd...

Yeah the best fight scenes are where the two combatants know each other very personally, Vader/Anakin is good but without a personal connection (which is highly unlikely again due to canon) it just won't have that same dramatic tone.
Yes I did not dare attempt to make Sai'le and Anakin have a relationship other than sparing once but it wasn't anything special so much that Sai'le isn't even sure if it was Anakin.  More of a fun mention rather than important to the story


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 01:26:54 AM
Yes I think Palpatine would encourage more active Jedi role as more Jedi in dangerous missions means more die, which is one fot he main goals of the whole war to thin Jedi ranks as much as possible. In his role as Chancellor of course he would be all against the idea of risking lives un-necessarily, but that is his whole Act at that point in time, secretly he's doing happy dances more Jedi will die. Could make a good cameo scene, ties into canon but doesn't force it.  
I like this for another reason as well: Palpy would want all of the more dangerous Jedi together because he would believe them more likely to turn and influence each other, or, as a plan b, all be in one place if he has to terminate them.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Karmack on April 08, 2020, 02:49:28 AM
Perhaps with  more sinister intent, all these 'dark leaning' Jedi that want to fight but are unsuitable for working with clones placed together for dangerous missions with a mentality that even if they get killed it rids the council of a problem...like a suicide squad...cold but I can see it being more probable as a way to make use of the fringe Jedi as the war heats up. As they come to realsie this it would certainly make them more willing to turn.....


Another point here: Having them being sent on "special" missions would also help Palpatine identify Jedi who might make good candidates for his Inquisitorious.   Or his personal guard. 
Or just rivals for Vader, to keep him on his toes.   :-)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 08, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
Another point here: Having them being sent on "special" missions would also help Palpatine identify Jedi who might make good candidates for his Inquisitorious.   Or his personal guard. 
Or just rivals for Vader, to keep him on his toes.   :-)
Thats part of the reason I want him to fight vader, so that vader can just show how bad-ass he is and how he can easily over power someone who is almost as strong as he is, and how Obi-wan won against him becasue of his experience rather than power


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: janx on April 09, 2020, 06:33:28 PM
Somebody else pointed out the dubiousness of Saile(sp?) being put in charge of more darkside candidates.

If these story parts were a book, is there enough meat in part one to form a complete story?  I see nothing in between Saile gets his new padawan to she dies and thirsts for revenge/roll credits on part one.

What is going on in the galaxy during the between time?
What major plot is this team solving?
How does Avani and Naroh's characters develop to be appealing so the heel-turn and loss hit the reader?

One reason these questions matter is "Women In Fridges"  Basically, as summed up, Avani exists to a be a MacGuffin for Naroh and revenge plot trigger for Saile.  A problem that might be alleviated by making part one actually be about something that Avani matters as a whole character and not a chalk outline.

So consider an A-plot and B-plot story.  This relationship Naroh and Avani develop is the B-Plot (which in part two becomes the A-Plot perhaps).  What is the main Star Warsy story going on while romance and training is budding?  Maybe it's hunting down some scheme Count Dooku started that kept your characters busy and off camera during Clone Wars.  Which also gives Naroh a chance for a meetup and persuasion by Dooku before Dooku's off to rendevous with Obi and Ani.






Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 09, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Somebody else pointed out the dubiousness of Saile(sp?) being put in charge of more darkside candidates.

If these story parts were a book, is there enough meat in part one to form a complete story?  I see nothing in between Saile gets his new padawan to she dies and thirsts for revenge/roll credits on part one.

What is going on in the galaxy during the between time?
What major plot is this team solving?
How does Avani and Naroh's characters develop to be appealing so the heel-turn and loss hit the reader?

One reason these questions matter is "Women In Fridges"  Basically, as summed up, Avani exists to a be a MacGuffin for Naroh and revenge plot trigger for Saile.  A problem that might be alleviated by making part one actually be about something that Avani matters as a whole character and not a chalk outline.

So consider an A-plot and B-plot story.  This relationship Naroh and Avani develop is the B-Plot (which in part two becomes the A-Plot perhaps).  What is the main Star Warsy story going on while romance and training is budding?  Maybe it's hunting down some scheme Count Dooku started that kept your characters busy and off camera during Clone Wars.  Which also gives Naroh a chance for a meetup and persuasion by Dooku before Dooku's off to rendevous with Obi and Ani.





Of course!  I definatly had that plan, but I was just summarizing the plot structure, and this helps me visualize it even more, thank you!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 09, 2020, 07:02:12 PM
Avaini loves Naroh, and that is her own conflict as well, where she has to chose between her master or her feelings, and both have their concequences.  Her and Sai'le do a lot together before, I just didn't see that as major plot points, more of character development points.  In reality, Naroh is the side character, Sai'le and Avaini are the main characters, Naroh simply exists to create a major shift in Sai'le.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 09, 2020, 07:03:49 PM
Avaini loves Naroh, and that is her own conflict as well, where she has to chose between her master or her feelings, and both have their concequences.  Her and Sai'le do a lot together before, I just didn't see that as major plot points, more of character development points.  In reality, Naroh is the side character, Sai'le and Avaini are the main characters, Naroh simply exists to create a major shift in Sai'le.
To me Avani (I spelt her name wrong in the last two posts my bad) is my favorite character, and I plan to build her up so much that her death hits hard.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 09, 2020, 07:06:51 PM
Somebody else pointed out the dubiousness of Saile(sp?) being put in charge of more darkside candidates.

If these story parts were a book, is there enough meat in part one to form a complete story?  I see nothing in between Saile gets his new padawan to she dies and thirsts for revenge/roll credits on part one.

What is going on in the galaxy during the between time?
What major plot is this team solving?
How does Avani and Naroh's characters develop to be appealing so the heel-turn and loss hit the reader?

One reason these questions matter is "Women In Fridges"  Basically, as summed up, Avani exists to a be a MacGuffin for Naroh and revenge plot trigger for Saile.  A problem that might be alleviated by making part one actually be about something that Avani matters as a whole character and not a chalk outline.

So consider an A-plot and B-plot story.  This relationship Naroh and Avani develop is the B-Plot (which in part two becomes the A-Plot perhaps).  What is the main Star Warsy story going on while romance and training is budding?  Maybe it's hunting down some scheme Count Dooku started that kept your characters busy and off camera during Clone Wars.  Which also gives Naroh a chance for a meetup and persuasion by Dooku before Dooku's off to rendevous with Obi and Ani.





Also I see how it may have been a bit confusion, but the part one two and three are not the actual separations for the story, just the chunks I wanted to post at a time


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 09, 2020, 08:55:42 PM
Also thank you to everyone who is giving advice, it's very helpful.  I'm only 18 and more of a playwright, so to get these ideas and tips from others is awesome, especially since I was more than a little nervous about posting this storyboard at first.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: TheDutchman on April 10, 2020, 06:01:17 AM
DarthRegol,
First of all: welcome to the FanFic Forums!  I feel confident in speaking for my fellow authors in saying that this is a fantastic place to share your story(ies)!  And with that in mind...

I like where you're going with your ideas; I think that there is a very good story to tell from the POV of your characters while interlinking them with SW canon.  Sometimes, HOW your own creations play against established canon is part of the fun, especially when you're able to write to an audience that is also familiar with the established continuity.  Just watch out for continuity snarls  ;)

I would also like to reiterate what my fellow writers have already stated: be careful with anything that is out of character, be it from a single individual character to the scene to the ambience of the galaxy-at-large.  I know that can be somewhat...broad but I cannot tell you how many FanFics I've read where the main character is an obvious author-self-insert that devolves into a Mary Sue (I don't think that's the case here, just an observation from my own reading experiences  ;)).  And on that note...

Be very, VERY careful NOT to have the "Boring, Invincible Hero" for your protagonist.  Sure, readers don't want their favorite characters killed off but having little-to-no adversity or dramatic conflict can really hamstring your story.  Unless you're Steven Seagal (that is meant as a joke BTW  ;))

Finally: if you have the time/inclination I would HIGHLY recommend that you read some of the offerings here within the Forums.  I would honestly start with Karmack's excellent "We Are Gray"(http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35563.msg574188#msg574188 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35563.msg574188#msg574188)) followed by LSG's "Children of the Aether" (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35974.msg582434#msg582434 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35974.msg582434#msg582434)) and finally TR's "Shadow of the Outcast" (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35795.msg578858#msg578858 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35795.msg578858#msg578858)).  And these are just three examples of how to write good fanfiction  :)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 10, 2020, 03:48:22 PM
DarthRegol,
First of all: welcome to the FanFic Forums!  I feel confident in speaking for my fellow authors in saying that this is a fantastic place to share your story(ies)!  And with that in mind...

I like where you're going with your ideas; I think that there is a very good story to tell from the POV of your characters while interlinking them with SW canon.  Sometimes, HOW your own creations play against established canon is part of the fun, especially when you're able to write to an audience that is also familiar with the established continuity.  Just watch out for continuity snarls  ;)

I would also like to reiterate what my fellow writers have already stated: be careful with anything that is out of character, be it from a single individual character to the scene to the ambience of the galaxy-at-large.  I know that can be somewhat...broad but I cannot tell you how many FanFics I've read where the main character is an obvious author-self-insert that devolves into a Mary Sue (I don't think that's the case here, just an observation from my own reading experiences  ;)).  And on that note...

Be very, VERY careful NOT to have the "Boring, Invincible Hero" for your protagonist.  Sure, readers don't want their favorite characters killed off but having little-to-no adversity or dramatic conflict can really hamstring your story.  Unless you're Steven Seagal (that is meant as a joke BTW  ;))

Finally: if you have the time/inclination I would HIGHLY recommend that you read some of the offerings here within the Forums.  I would honestly start with Karmack's excellent "We Are Gray"([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35563.msg574188#msg574188[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35563.msg574188#msg574188[/url])) followed by LSG's "Children of the Aether" ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35974.msg582434#msg582434[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35974.msg582434#msg582434[/url])) and finally TR's "Shadow of the Outcast" ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35795.msg578858#msg578858[/url] ([url]http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=35795.msg578858#msg578858[/url])).  And these are just three examples of how to write good fanfiction  :)
Thank you for the tips! And have no fear, my protagonist gets his but kicked quite a bit, mainly because of his own hesitations and inner conflict that distracts him from being at his maximum power.  Can you explain Mary Sue? I am not familiar with that term


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: janx on April 10, 2020, 03:59:35 PM
Mary Sue/Gary Stu is basically an over-powered character and often is really a self-insert for the author.

So having a character called Darth Regol might be considered a self-insert, but on a SW fanfic sight might be OK as you basically made a character for your account and that's pretty common.

Here is a decent quiz for testing your character (as it scores the most common examples):

https://springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm

I would point out that a bit of the author is always reflected in characters.  Logically, the protagonist IS going on the adventure the writer wanted to have.  But there are cringeworthy ways of doing it, and this test sheds light on that concern.

The author of the test has now got concerns about the name of the term "Mary Sue" which are valid, but for the sake of testing YOUR character, aren't relevant to the details of the test itself.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 10, 2020, 04:37:14 PM
Mary Sue/Gary Stu is basically an over-powered character and often is really a self-insert for the author.

So having a character called Darth Regol might be considered a self-insert, but on a SW fanfic sight might be OK as you basically made a character for your account and that's pretty common.

Here is a decent quiz for testing your character (as it scores the most common examples):

https://springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm

I would point out that a bit of the author is always reflected in characters.  Logically, the protagonist IS going on the adventure the writer wanted to have.  But there are cringeworthy ways of doing it, and this test sheds light on that concern.

The author of the test has now got concerns about the name of the term "Mary Sue" which are valid, but for the sake of testing YOUR character, aren't relevant to the details of the test itself.

Thanks!  I took it and no Sai'le is not a "Mary Sue". He's powerful but his mistakes semi balance with his sucess and he loses a lot...something my partner and I worked hard to make sure happens becasue we don't like invincible heros...makes boring stories.  Plus, spoiler, in the end, Sai'le eventually is killed by Vader, his third time fighting him and second time losing, the only time he ever beat him was when they spared as padawans in a relatively unimportant 2 sentence memory 


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 11, 2020, 06:54:28 PM
So now I have more of a getting started question...I want to either jump into Sai'le as a youngling being assigned to a master as a prologue, or have the prologue be years in the future after vader kills Sai'le, with Naroh finding Sai'le's lightsabers that the council had kept in their collections after Sai'le went rouge.  The first Idea is a lot more straightforward, the second idea Naroh would take the sabers back to his hideout and give them to the young girl that him and Sai'le were training named Viviana.  If i don't do this as a segway to the start of the story, I'm going to have it be the epilogue of the last "book"

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Karmack on April 11, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
Mary Sue/Gary Stu is basically an over-powered character and often is really a self-insert for the author.

So having a character called Darth Regol might be considered a self-insert, but on a SW fanfic sight might be OK as you basically made a character for your account and that's pretty common.

Here is a decent quiz for testing your character (as it scores the most common examples):

https://springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm

I would point out that a bit of the author is always reflected in characters.  Logically, the protagonist IS going on the adventure the writer wanted to have.  But there are cringeworthy ways of doing it, and this test sheds light on that concern.

The author of the test has now got concerns about the name of the term "Mary Sue" which are valid, but for the sake of testing YOUR character, aren't relevant to the details of the test itself.


Writing your own "character" into the story is probably my forte.  :-)   If you read through the forumverse, you're going to see Ka'a'Mack of the Mak'Tor showing up a lot I am afraid.  I do hope he hasn't become a Mary Sue.  He has become very powerful, but he's paid a price for it along the way.

And that's what Dutchman was talking about.  Usually a "Mary Sue" is an overpowered character, often the 'avatar' of the author in the story, who is just up-front more powerful, smarter, wiser, and virtually invincible.  From what I've seen of your plot notes I don't think you'll have an issue with it.  :-)

Janx, thanks for that explanation!  And the link!  If you haven't put that in the pinned Tips for Writing thread you should!   :-)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: DarthRegol on April 11, 2020, 08:02:38 PM
Writing your own "character" into the story is probably my forte.  :-)   If you read through the forumverse, you're going to see Ka'a'Mack of the Mak'Tor showing up a lot I am afraid.  I do hope he hasn't become a Mary Sue.  He has become very powerful, but he's paid a price for it along the way.

And that's what Dutchman was talking about.  Usually a "Mary Sue" is an overpowered character, often the 'avatar' of the author in the story, who is just up-front more powerful, smarter, wiser, and virtually invincible.  From what I've seen of your plot notes I don't think you'll have an issue with it.  :-)

Janx, thanks for that explanation!  And the link!  If you haven't put that in the pinned Tips for Writing thread you should!   :-)
I guess if there is one thing I am guilty of is that these are the role playing characters my friend and I had when we were younger, I am Sai'le, he is Naroh. (made up names of course).  We just wanted to make a story for them as we are older now, and though we enjoy dueling, the role play would be for youtube only now.  And you're right, I think other than that, there is no mary sue here, because the two of us love to put our characters through really hard times, and we both like the drama of main characters getting killed, because thats how life works.  You could be strong, but if you are in a war, or if there is someone stronger (theres always a bigger fish) then you can die.


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: TheDutchman on April 12, 2020, 12:01:40 AM
So now I have more of a getting started question...I want to either jump into Sai'le as a youngling being assigned to a master as a prologue, or have the prologue be years in the future after vader kills Sai'le, with Naroh finding Sai'le's lightsabers that the council had kept in their collections after Sai'le went rouge.  The first Idea is a lot more straightforward, the second idea Naroh would take the sabers back to his hideout and give them to the young girl that him and Sai'le were training named Viviana.  If i don't do this as a segway to the start of the story, I'm going to have it be the epilogue of the last "book"

Any thoughts?

I actually like your secondvstoryboarding option: Prologue-Naroh find's Sai'le's sabers>Body-Main story (and with this you could really begin anywhere: Sai'le as a youngling/established knight/fallen Jedi)>Epilogue-Viviana receives sabers from Naroh.  But then again, I like stories that begin in medias res, you can set up the chapter (in this case: prologue) beginning with an action sequence, securing the reader's attention while simultaneously offering an easter egg or two for the reader further down the narrative  :)

Again, for examples, you need not look further than this very Forum (again, I canNOT recommend enough that you check out the stories written by Karmack, Lord_S_Gray, and Taegin Roan).  And--should you feel compelled--I've done a couple myself  ;)

Writing your own "character" into the story is probably my forte.  :-)   If you read through the forumverse, you're going to see Ka'a'Mack of the Mak'Tor showing up a lot I am afraid.  I do hope he hasn't become a Mary Sue.  He has become very powerful, but he's paid a price for it along the way.

And that's what Dutchman was talking about.  Usually a "Mary Sue" is an overpowered character, often the 'avatar' of the author in the story, who is just up-front more powerful, smarter, wiser, and virtually invincible.  From what I've seen of your plot notes I don't think you'll have an issue with it.  :-)

Janx, thanks for that explanation!  And the link!  If you haven't put that in the pinned Tips for Writing thread you should!   :-)

Karm brings up an EXCELLENT point: his character goes through some power levels in subsequent stories, growing stronger in each one, culminating in "What You Leave Behind."  HOWEVER, the very fact that he IS becoming more powerful #1 does NOT make him invincible, #2 is a key plot point within the narrative, and #3 is a source of epic drama in his character arc. 

Likewise, Darth Rowan in "Shadow of the Outcast" is another powerful character without being boring as throughout the story his development is an earned part of the narrative (which is similar Sai'le; nicely done  :)). 

The two above examples are how to do the "strong, powerful hero" type when applied to a single character.  Now, when applied to a group and culture, look at LSG's Aethans.  They are engineered to be powerful but their limited social understandings hamstring them, a poignant aspect that a clever opponent can (and has!) taken advantage of.

Then you can consider my own main character, Zearic.  He starts off as less than middling, knowing that he'll never be more powerful than that: mediocre.  Part of his motive comes from the inherent drive to protect his family, wishing to become stronger.  Well...remember the adage "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it"  ;)   So in Zearic's case, he's given what he'd always hoped for (stronger, both in body and the Force) but the price comes at an incredible cost, one that affects family and friends. 

"Strong" and "powerful" characters aren't automatically Mary Sues (special thanks to Janx for his helping to clarify such  :)).  The "test" that Janx provided is an excellent barometer for checking if a character is a Mary Sue.  Now, having said that, from what you've told us, Sai'le does NOT seem like a Mary Sue  ;)
Another point: having some author self-insertion in their characters is almost inevitable.  Case in point: Zearic has more than a few of my idiosyncrasies and D'Aylanna IS my wife  ;D.  The trick is to keep them interesting and relatable: they--like me--make mistakes.  A LOT of them (again: VERY much like me  :D).  But as I continued writing more and more about them, they developed their own distinct personalities far removed from my original template.  This I can attribute to getting comfortable with the characters, responding to the feedback of my fellow authors, and becoming a better writer (or so I hope  ;))

BUT the most IMPORTANT thing about writing your fanfiction:
HAVE FUN!!!
The authors (and artists: I HIGHLY suggest that you check out For Tyeth's saber renderings here http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40017.msg670197#msg670197 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=40017.msg670197#msg670197) and PsychoSith's saber drawings here http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=41788.msg717613#msg717613 (http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=41788.msg717613#msg717613)) have been absolutely inspirational to my own writing.  From the feedback that everyone posts to the drawings that I borrow (with permission  ;)), I cannot tell you how much this has helped my storytelling.  More than a few times someone would offer a suggestion/critique that truly improved what I'd intended to write, making the scene/chapter even better than I'd hoped.  Which leads me to my final point, one that you've already done: listen to and seek advice.  No one has a monopoly on good ideas (goodness knows I don't!  ;D) and often times someone will see or think of something that is superior to what you'd planned.  Or even better: you can then incorporate said great idea into your already good story.

Thankfully, this is the perfect venue to take a chance with your writing; everyone here is fantastic  8)


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: Lord_S_Gray on April 12, 2020, 01:13:21 PM
Dutch spelled it out well. But yeah there is always someone bigger as you said, that doesn't mean your character can't have badass moments.  Case in point as Dutch eluded my 'race' of Aethans are genetically engineered selectively bred force prodigies....yet at the start of their saga they live in log cabins, subsistence food, with no advanced technology following an ecological and population collapse, and get their butts kicked by 'mere' pirates/slavers the kind a Jedi master would consider cannon fodder...then they improve to the point of dealing devastating blows to the Jedi they come into conflict with largely because the Jedi are utterly unprepared for the way they fight....but then it turns again and they meet their match against far more prepared and capable Jedi and Sith. There is a see saw in effect that keeps the narrative realistic and avoids one sided conflict as the arms race builds.

But yeah just have fun in your writing and we're all here to offer tips and ideas, without question IMHO the best stuff in our little Forumverse is the result of collaborations, even if you just ask someone else to write one scene it can open your eyes to new ways of seeing your own character and story. Get creative and have fun as Dutch said!


Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: janx on April 12, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So now I have more of a getting started question...I want to either jump into Sai'le as a youngling being assigned to a master as a prologue, or have the prologue be years in the future after vader kills Sai'le, with Naroh finding Sai'le's lightsabers that the council had kept in their collections after Sai'le went rouge.  The first Idea is a lot more straightforward, the second idea Naroh would take the sabers back to his hideout and give them to the young girl that him and Sai'le were training named Viviana.  If i don't do this as a segway to the start of the story, I'm going to have it be the epilogue of the last "book"

Any thoughts?

Here's some general thoughts on that from the test of writing world...

You got ten pages to hook a reader, do you want to spend it on a high level proloque telling me about your world?  Prologues waste that runway you need.  Yes, I know Star Wars has proloques (note I made a video for my story).

A pet peeve I have is the from-birth to present info dump that is largely telling and goes over all the tragic "special" moments the character had.  If your hero is 21 years old at the inciting incident through the climactic battle, then start when he is 21 years old and maybe a week, a day or moments before the climactic battle.

Instead, your first chapters should hint of the problem to come, show me your character's "normal" while demonstrating a slice of conflict.  Perhaps he's grading the current crop of padawans and dealing with a thorn in his side.  Maybe this is the moment where he switches from teaching a class of kids to getting stuck with a tag-along Avaini and a real assignment.  If it will make us empathize with the MC and see a bit of his world, that's the reason to start there.



Title: Re: New Fanfic idea (Feedback please)
Post by: TheDutchman on April 12, 2020, 07:01:54 PM
Here's some general thoughts on that from the test of writing world...

You got ten pages to hook a reader, do you want to spend it on a high level proloque telling me about your world?  Prologues waste that runway you need.  Yes, I know Star Wars has proloques (note I made a video for my story).

A pet peeve I have is the from-birth to present info dump that is largely telling and goes over all the tragic "special" moments the character had.  If your hero is 21 years old at the inciting incident through the climactic battle, then start when he is 21 years old and maybe a week, a day or moments before the climactic battle.

Instead, your first chapters should hint of the problem to come, show me your character's "normal" while demonstrating a slice of conflict.  Perhaps he's grading the current crop of padawans and dealing with a thorn in his side.  Maybe this is the moment where he switches from teaching a class of kids to getting stuck with a tag-along Avaini and a real assignment.  If it will make us empathize with the MC and see a bit of his world, that's the reason to start there.


This is a perfect example of an alternate perspective that gives more options to an author.  Janx brings up some excellent points concerning storyboarding and plotting, all of which are superb.

For myself, I actually like prologues in that they can act as a microcosm for your story, introducing pertinent information/scenes/action that can immediately grab a reader's attention.  Is my way better than Janx?  Not by any means; it's just my own personal preference  :)  But I absolutely agree with him that a "from-birth to present info dump" (well put^^) is not only a waste but completely unnecessary.  You've got a story to tell; such banality would only bog it down.

But again, this underscores how two different writing styles can help one as a writer.  Ultimately, use what you enjoy most while simultaneously creating an interesting narrative for your readers  :)