What form is best for curved hilted lightsaber?

[Darth Logos]

Using two hands isn't just adding power, it adds control as well.  "Brute force" hardly applies to a skilled use of two hands - Master Artorius typically uses two hands and I would classify his style as "lightning speed" and efficiency over brute force.

I just don't find curved hilts to have as many advantages as most think, which is why I tend to find them overrated.  I'll keep an open mind though, in the event that I get one in my collection in the future.

No doubts about the speed. I've seen old Kenshi that can strike so fast with 2 hands that not even the slo-mo replay can show you what happened. Brute force is not neccessarily slow. But you have to admit, 2 hands does increase the power. Single handed increases dexterity and range of movement, and one hand typically can move faster than 2.

The curved in my opinion is a comfort thing. Anything you can do with a curved hilt you can do with a straight hilt. It's just more comfortable (and stylish) brandishing a curved one.

[Master Nero Attoru]

No doubts about the speed. I've seen old Kenshi that can strike so fast with 2 hands that not even the slo-mo replay can show you what happened. Brute force is not neccessarily slow. But you have to admit, 2 hands does increase the power. Single handed increases dexterity and range of movement, and one hand typically can move faster than 2.

The curved in my opinion is a comfort thing. Anything you can do with a curved hilt you can do with a straight hilt. It's just more comfortable (and stylish) brandishing a curved one.

I partially agree, about one hand increasing the range of movement, but I maintain that the control gained with two hands add more than just speed and power.  Some parries become more difficult when the arms cross, but overall I don't find a loss of dexterity when using two hands.  That's coming from a guy who is trained to use one hand too, so you would imagine my bias would be towards that method.

Style wise though, you'll definitely be unique with a curved hilt.  No question about that!

[Darth Logos]

I partially agree, about one hand increasing the range of movement, but I maintain that the control gained with two hands add more than just speed and power.  Some parries become more difficult when the arms cross, but overall I don't find a loss of dexterity when using two hands.  That's coming from a guy who is trained to use one hand too, so you would imagine my bias would be towards that method.

Style wise though, you'll definitely be unique with a curved hilt.  No question about that!

Point, sir. You make a valid point about the control aspect that also comes from two hands. I don't know how that escaped my mentioning considering that Kendo is a 2-handed style. We used to have to practice men strikes with our off hands (whichever hand held the base of the hilt of the shinai) but had to hold it at the pommel. It always made me feel terribly ineffective because of the lack of control, but that was also swinging a 50" sword at arms length from the pommel. UGH!. The odder thing is, is that with 2 hands, my control comes from my strong/favored right hand, and the power of the strike comes from my weaker/off left hand.

[Sapherno11]

That's really interesting Logos. FOr me, when I use a two handed grip, my control comes from my strong/favored hand, my right, which I keep DIRECTLY under the hilt/emitter of whatever weapon I'm usng, and the left hand at the bottom. However, I feel the power of my strikes comes from a point between my hands. It feels like the sword itself becomes alive, and becomes an extension of my will. Both hands work together, focusing energy throughout the hilt and blade to fform one solid whole that guides and directs my strength.

Actually, thinking about it, I really don't know WHERE the strength for my strikes comes from, the best I can answer, is from my spirit and will.

The only reason I know my right hand is mostly control, is because I usually prefer to fight one handed!

[Maestro]

Actually there is a specific reason the curved hilt is generally associated with makashi. When duelling became prevalent during intense periods af schizm within the jedi order, makashi was developed and the dueling or curved hilt saber was simultaneously developed. With the curved hilt, dueling sabers provide a few small traits that can be exploited in makashis' highly technical way.
1. The hilt is more ergonomic, assisting in protection from disarms, a common practice of the form makashi was designed to beat; shii cho.
2. By rotating the grip in the hand the blade will not extend directly out from the hand, and thus becomes 'off' slightly. If you are trying to bypass a standard defense (makashis modus operandi) this is a useful trait. This is actually the primary technical function of the curve.
3. If you want to switch back into a power based attack, the curved hilt can be used to great effect in leveraging power.
4. Lastly, when reach and precision are paramount, u want a blade to come straight out from the hand in a more natural way.

There is nothing wrong with a standard hilt, i wouldnt say the curved hilt is inherently superior, or that its advantages are unbeatable. The dueling saber is also capable of being used in any form. Golf, soccer and track shoes all utilize cleats but are used in very different intesities of activity. In the end, at most levels of combat the curve is essentially an aesthetic choice.

[Sapherno11]

I....Yes, your absolutely correct, that IS why its associated....or rather, would be associated if the Jedi Order was real.

Honestly, a curved hilt has become associated with Makashi because almost everyone, while not reading the books to That level, knows Dooku uses Makashi, and he uses a curved saber hilt.

[vsapayback]

forum to is what it was designed for....but it maters who you are

[Darth Logos]

forum to is what it was designed for....but it maters who you are

Too true. I'm currently reading the Darth Bane trilogy. His saber is a curved hilt, but he favors what he calls "strong" form. Most likely it's something akin to Shien (Form V). The curved hilt is not neccessarily designed to fit a particular style, but rather to simply be more erganomic. It allows for a more comfortable grip in various maneuvers vs a straight hilt. From my observations, it makes for easier attacks, but a straight hilt might proove better for defence.

[vsapayback]

exactly bane was powerful and strong and the added leverage and grip would have made even one handed strikes brutal. where as dooku used it in a way to misdirect.

[Maestro]

Bane is a djem so specialist, a form heavily influenced by makashi. If you read in darth bane path of destruction kasim tells bane about the lightsaber he gives him. It should be noted though that banes saber is hooked, not curved. A hook is striaght from the emitter until a few centimeters above the pommell. A curved saber usually curves throughout its length, or in segmentica as with dookus'. The hook provides some of the benifits of the curve but not to the same degree. It does however still offer the ability to alter the angles of some attacks, making them more unpredictable for the opponent. This is what kasim himself said in the book.

[Darth Logos]

Bane is a djem so specialist, a form heavily influenced by makashi. If you read in darth bane path of destruction kasim tells bane about the lightsaber he gives him. It should be noted though that banes saber is hooked, not curved. A hook is striaght from the emitter until a few centimeters above the pommell. A curved saber usually curves throughout its length, or in segmentica as with dookus'. The hook provides some of the benifits of the curve but not to the same degree. It does however still offer the ability to alter the angles of some attacks, making them more unpredictable for the opponent. This is what kasim himself said in the book.

Just read that part. And just to clarify...What shape does a hook take? There is another saber smith that has made the "official" unofficial Darth Bane hilt based on these descriptions from the books. (Google images of "Darth Bane's lightsaber") I don't think you will be disappointed with this interpretation. It is what I envision when reading.

But to the point of combat form. Bane recognizes only 2 forms of saber combat, Strong form and Fast form. (Reference Wookieepedia) I would classify Makashi part of Fast form. It is kinda fancy and very 'tricky', not something that overwhelms by brute strength. Ataru, Djem So, Juyo would fall under Strong form. Considering Bane's physical size and strength as well as his considerable strength in the Force, even blocking one of his strikes is going to bounce you off the floor. I view Makashi as having more finesse, and more likely to slip under your defence, rather than breaking your block.

But that's just my take.

[Master Nero Attoru]

Just read that part. And just to clarify...What shape does a hook take? There is another saber smith that has made the "official" unofficial Darth Bane hilt based on these descriptions from the books. (Google images of "Darth Bane's lightsaber") I don't think you will be disappointed with this interpretation. It is what I envision when reading.

But to the point of combat form. Bane recognizes only 2 forms of saber combat, Strong form and Fast form. (Reference Wookieepedia) I would classify Makashi part of Fast form. It is kinda fancy and very 'tricky', not something that overwhelms by brute strength. Ataru, Djem So, Juyo would fall under Strong form. Considering Bane's physical size and strength as well as his considerable strength in the Force, even blocking one of his strikes is going to bounce you off the floor. I view Makashi as having more finesse, and more likely to slip under your defence, rather than breaking your block.

But that's just my take.

I haven't read Bane personally, but this sounds pretty accurate.  People usually try to oversimplify the Forms, but this one actually does have a general truth to it, and I can see someone like Darth Bane thinking that way.  Point, sir.

[Darth Logos]

I haven't read Bane personally, but this sounds pretty accurate.  People usually try to oversimplify the Forms, but this one actually does have a general truth to it, and I can see someone like Darth Bane thinking that way.  Point, sir.

Thanks