Defending against a saber staff

[Revanchist423]

So my friend is getting a saber staff and i was wondering if anyone had some advice on how to defend against one using just  a normal saber

[jedimasta556]

be fast very fast.... and make sure to practice every day to be faster than him thats the only way to beat him.... dark side points

[Thonolan]

Being fast helps like the Masta above has noted.

Good movement as well (dodging really helps me when fighting a saberstaff)

also, learning how he tends to attack, most people will attack in patterns (not all) but using your motions and blocks efficiently to allow an opening for a quick riposte will make for more interesting duels.

[jedimasta556]

yes... see if he has an attack pattern and plan accordingly.. you will be prepared if you analyze

[Byourel]

Being a user of nothing but a saberstaff, I can give you some pointers that will help you defeat your friend, as others have defeated me!

1. Speed is key, as stated above. He has two blades that can be utilized, but he must control those blades at all times. The less time he has to manipulate the big-bulky weapon, the more difficult it becomes for him to defend or attack.

2. Distance - the length of the staff will ultimately decide how he fights. The longer the blades, the better for attack. He can use complex twists, turns, and spins to catch you off-guard from a further distance. This is where he will be most effective. If you can close the distance and get in tight, then you will have an extreme advantage. He must then work in a confined space with a large weapon that is difficult to quickly maneuver with precision in small areas.
If the blade length is shorter, then it becomes much easier to defend with. His movements will be much faster with a shorter staff and defense will be incredibly easy for him. Attacking however, will be very difficult and he will have to move in very close to ensure a successful strike. Keeping a further distance will help you find an opening, while not allowing him the chance to attack effectively.

3. Don't get overwhelmed - staffs are very good for spinning and tricking! If you look at how Darth Maul fights Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in Episode I, he performs very basic attacks and blocks, but adds flourishes and unnecessary twists and turns to add complexity to the routine. These, although they look attractive, do not add any advantage when it comes to actually striking. Do not get distracted by fancy spins, your opponents attacks will come at you just as you would attack him - in a very basic manner when it all boils down.

4. MOST DIFFICULT - BLADE POSITION AND ORIENTATION
This is the most difficult thing when dueling someone with a saber staff. Their blades are connected, which allows for fast strikes and chains, one attack after another, but it has one major disadvantage. Let us say he would attack with a horizontal slash at your left side - you would instinctively block this, and he would follow it up with... you most likely guessed it, a simple swing in the opposite direction - a right-side horizontal attack. This means that you must always be aware of where his first attack is meant, and you MUST be prepared to defend against a follow-up attack, which will most likely come from the opposite side, targeted at the opposite position. (For those seriously contemplating this, I understand that one could feint and attack another section, or attack at a different place/target, but this is a basic idea of the concept) I say this is very difficult because you will have to consciously think about where you will be attacked from and how to defend yourself until such motions become second nature.

5. He has double the capability to attack/defend, but double the length and must double his efforts to control the entire weapon - MAKE HIM REGRET IT. Through combining speed and distance, you can battle just as effectively against unfamiliar tactics. The faster you are, the harder his job will be. The better you use distance, the harder it will be for him to attack and defend properly. When you use these skills and methods well, he will regret having such a large and sometimes cumbersome weapon.

I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions!

[reiperx]

What Byo said.

From personal experience sparring against staffs a lot in the past (ex's weapon of choice) getting in close is key. It really limits their range of motion.

Downside, is you really gotta watch for martial attacks when that close, especially sweeps.

[Master Lucien Kane]

Understand the limitation of the weapon you're engaging. You know where the other blade is at all times, both blades can't engage you effectively at once. That is an advantage. You also have a large target in the middle of your opponent's grip to slide up and make a mark of contact on the wrists or arms.

Speed is helpful, but not necessary, slow is smooth smooth is fast. If you learn how to maneuver your weapon and body properly you'll be able to maneuver your weapon and body efficiently against a double bladed lightsaber.

Tactics, are your friend.... If there is an area that hampers the staff's ability to be utilized fully maneuver the fight there. If you know the advantages and disadvantages of both the weapons you and your opponent are using you will be a more effective tactical fighter.

[Darth Nonymous]

I have to agree with Master Kane on this one. Tactics not physicality is the idea. Speed is only necessary if you are making large sweeping motions or have lots of fancy moves you want to get in. Learn the limitations of the 2x saber and it shouldn't be an issue.

Some simple tactics:

 The double bladed saber does give an advantage, in speed with the two blades, but sacrifices in range. A saber staff cannot extend like a real staff for obvious reasons. The second blade presents a problem for long range attacks. The weapon is most effective in medium to close range-stay out of there.

The mark of contact most useful is sun djem-attack the hilt. unless your friend is very good at it, the hilt will be extremely vulnerable during use. Long shiim strikes  aimed the weapon is the quickest way to end it. It will also keep them from getting too aggressive, which is another strength of the 2x ended saber.

Don't back up from them, circle them and try to keep a constant distance just out of their range. also try to go to one side. This will make it more difficult for them to get the one two strike that is so dangerous. It will slow them down a bit and may give you the opening you need. If you are going right, they can hit you with one, but the second one will be further away because of the arc.

We did a pretty extensive series of tests on the mechanics of the weapon in this thread: http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=7505.0

Summery:
1. stay at long range as much as possible.
2. Aim for the hilt.
3. Move around them to one side.

Good luck! And Remember to fight the person not the weapon.

[Jammo]

Rhythm breaks and careful jams... try to see the staff as one thing rather than two separate blades. The advice already given to take it to the opponent's hilt is rock solid and it is also a great way to disrupt the rhythm of the staff users. Learn to recognize when the staff user is switching between blades... that is often the cause of small openings that you can take advantage of with proper timing. Last thing... feet. The orientation of the staff user's feet is going to dictate a great deal of what the duelist can and cannot do easily.

[reiperx]

The one thing I'm going to have to break myself of is the weapon grab. When fighting with bokken and staffs I'd wrap their weapons up and use them to pull myself in for the takedown or scoring attack (depending on the type of sparring).

I'd still say getting in close is going still advantageous. If they are flourishing (total waste of movment) it will stop that which will disrupt their pattern, and that I've found that when up close (at least with real staffs, so saber combat may differ) people tend to either go full defense or they become really easy to predict their blows.

Just curious, for most of the saber duelists out there, do you generally disallow throws, sweeps, and martial attacks (or even thrust attacks for that matter).

[Darth Nonymous]

The one thing I'm going to have to break myself of is the weapon grab. When fighting with bokken and staffs I'd wrap their weapons up and use them to pull myself in for the takedown or scoring attack (depending on the type of sparring).

I'd still say getting in close is going still advantageous. If they are flourishing (total waste of movment) it will stop that which will disrupt their pattern, and that I've found that when up close (at least with real staffs, so saber combat may differ) people tend to either go full defense or they become really easy to predict their blows.

Just curious, for most of the saber duelists out there, do you generally disallow throws, sweeps, and martial attacks (or even thrust attacks for that matter).

TPLA will include all techniques even throws and disarms. We are working on some armor that can be customized to provide protection and look just the way you want it to. Although you cannot grab the blade, you can grab the hilt. But remember that if they have a 2x blade, they will still be able to hit you unless you have both hands on their weapon.

As far as the range, it depends on the fighter, but the 2x saber is most effective at mid to close range. It is quick and difficult to see that close.

 It really is nothing like a staff.

[reiperx]

TPLA will include all techniques even throws and disarms. We are working on some armor that can be customized to provide protection and look just the way you want it to. Although you cannot grab the blade, you can grab the hilt. But remember that if they have a 2x blade, they will still be able to hit you unless you have both hands on their weapon.

As far as the range, it depends on the fighter, but the 2x saber is most effective at mid to close range. It is quick and difficult to see that close.

 It really is nothing like a staff.

Then I gotta find someone in the Nashville area with one. I have one guy at work that wants a staff (full out, foc and sound on both sides) but he doesn't like the 6 - 700 pricetag. But he also hasn't seen my sabers yet either. I can see him picking up a staff once he heals up from his operation (they did something to his hip) and gets ahold of one of my sabers for a bit. Going to be fun relearning to fight against a new weapon. 

[Darth Nonymous]

Then I gotta find someone in the Nashville area with one. I have one guy at work that wants a staff (full out, foc and sound on both sides) but he doesn't like the 6 - 700 pricetag. But he also hasn't seen my sabers yet either. I can see him picking up a staff once he heals up from his operation (they did something to his hip) and gets ahold of one of my sabers for a bit. Going to be fun relearning to fight against a new weapon. 

Yes, that was one impression that came through clear-sparring with the 2x blade (with or against) is tons of fun. Good luck! I hope you get to find someone!

[jedimasta556]

hey its me again.... good luck with the whole 2x saber vs you thing... All us forumites support you.