Random Star Wars Thoughts

[Darth Tepes]

The issue I have with that is that the requirements for "all zabraks" is that they have a ring of horns on their head. The Nightsisters do not have said ring. So either someone needs to update the canon page on Wookieepedia with the correct information (whichever way it is), or I am going to continue to belive that they are not the same species of Zabrak as Eeth Koth or Maul. Even if you were to say "well females just don't have horns" I could sight a character from TCW who is a female Zabrak with horns. Her name is Sugi. See the problem?

On the page it labels them a "Sub Species" of Zabrak.  In current canon there is no further explanation but its not hard to make an educated guess.  Two planets have Zabraks...Iridona and Dathomir.  Iridona has the "normal" Zabrak's.  Male and female with rings of horns around their heads (males generally more pronounced).  While Dathomir has Male Zabraks and Nightsisters.  I would guess the Nightsisters, as a sub species, were perhaps marginalized and left Iridona and found Dathomir.  After becoming strong enough they went back and took males from their homeworld to use as mates, servants, warriors and acolytes (Nightbrothers).  In old canon I belive it was said the Nightsisters were the product of Zabraks mating with humans.

[Darth Logos]

Someone today told me that Mother Talzin, Asajj Ventress and the Nightsisters are Zabraki. I consider this false based on everything we know about Zabraks, but what do y'all think? Looking at Logos and Tepes on this one (and anyone else I guess)...

Per usual, I reject what Disney canon dictates in favor of OC. Female Zabrak were established, if nowhere else, in TFU: Maris Brood. BUT, in this rare occasion, I can also utilize TCW as source material: Sugi is a Zabrak.



Now I won't argue that the Nightsisters were of Dathomir, but they were not Zabrak. I found the the whole idea of the the Nightbrothers solely being Zabrak to be another one of F#$%-up-Feloni's classic blunders: because of one movie instance, an entire thing has to be made from it. Ergo, because Darth Maul was of Dathomir, ALL Dathmirian males "have to be" Zabrak, and they all "have to have" the same tattoo styling. (Because SW fans are kinda stupid, and if you don't redo the same things over and over they'll get angry and confused.)

Fun Fact: One of the concepts for Darth Maul was actually female. And this is what she looked like:



In my experience, sexual dimorphism of that extent would take extreme evolutionary need. I'm not against it. I never had a problem with Devoronians being sexually dimorphic to an extreme degree, but those reasons were woven into the lore throughout the comics and books. Not just some dumbass writer that thought they understood SW by recycling old ideas.('Nother fun fact: if I'm not mistaken, we finally got to see a female Devoronian in TROS.) I looked at both canon and legends pages. Based on the images, Dathomirian civilization was not well established before TCW. I had always envisioned Dathomir as just a very inhospitable planet that the Nightsisters resided on as a deterrent for outsiders. It didn't necessarily have to have an indiginous population.

Plus, the Dathomirian article classifies the Nightsisters as Human. The Nightsisters article has them originating as all Human. From my knowledge of biology, a hybrid species would share traits among the sexes. I could envision a species with reduced horn size, faded markings, etc., but seen in both sexes. Kind of like what happened with the Twi-lek/Human kids the rogue clone had. (Lekku shorter than pure-blood Twi-lek of the same age and mottled skin color)

[Darth Tepes]

Per usual, I reject what Disney canon dictates in favor of OC. Female Zabrak were established, if nowhere else, in TFU: Maris Brood. BUT, in this rare occasion, I can also utilize TCW as source material: Sugi is a Zabrak.



Now I won't argue that the Nightsisters were of Dathomir, but they were not Zabrak. I found the the whole idea of the the Nightbrothers solely being Zabrak to be another one of F#$%-up-Feloni's classic blunders: because of one movie instance, an entire thing has to be made from it. Ergo, because Darth Maul was of Dathomir, ALL Dathmirian males "have to be" Zabrak, and they all "have to have" the same tattoo styling. (Because SW fans are kinda stupid, and if you don't redo the same things over and over they'll get angry and confused.)

Fun Fact: One of the concepts for Darth Maul was actually female. And this is what she looked like:



In my experience, sexual dimorphism of that extent would take extreme evolutionary need. I'm not against it. I never had a problem with Devoronians being sexually dimorphic to an extreme degree, but those reasons were woven into the lore throughout the comics and books. Not just some dumbass writer that thought they understood SW by recycling old ideas.('Nother fun fact: if I'm not mistaken, we finally got to see a female Devoronian in TROS.) I looked at both canon and legends pages. Based on the images, Dathomirian civilization was not well established before TCW. I had always envisioned Dathomir as just a very inhospitable planet that the Nightsisters resided on as a deterrent for outsiders. It didn't necessarily have to have an indiginous population.

Plus, the Dathomirian article classifies the Nightsisters as Human. The Nightsisters article has them originating as all Human. From my knowledge of biology, a hybrid species would share traits among the sexes. I could envision a species with reduced horn size, faded markings, etc., but seen in both sexes. Kind of like what happened with the Twi-lek/Human kids the rogue clone had. (Lekku shorter than pure-blood Twi-lek of the same age and mottled skin color)

I know you don't like Filoni...but pre Disney purchase all Decisions were either made by George or had to go through him... in fact it was pretty much almost all Lucas' ideas.  So really you should blame Lucas.

[Darth Logos]

I know you don't like Filoni...but pre Disney purchase all Decisions were either made by George or had to go through him... in fact it was pretty much almost all Lucas' ideas.  So really you should blame Lucas.

Well Georgie Porgy is on my $#!% list as well. Part of me thinks he kinda phoned in the evaluation of vestigial details like species evolution. One downside that I've noticed with SW is that it's not terribly great at world building from the aspect of culture and species. Yes there is an immense diversity of species, but we know almost nothing about them. So then we get crap that suggests that the entire Dathomirian people consists of less than 100 individuals.

[Darth Tepes]

Well Georgie Porgy is on my $#!% list as well. Part of me thinks he kinda phoned in the evaluation of vestigial details like species evolution. One downside that I've noticed with SW is that it's not terribly great at world building from the aspect of culture and species. Yes there is an immense diversity of species, but we know almost nothing about them. So then we get crap that suggests that the entire Dathomirian people consists of less than 100 individuals.

I think because those kind of details Lucas really didn't care about.

[Taegin Roan]

So I take it Logos is of the same mindset as I am that the Nightsisters are not Zabraki?

A subset of the Zabrak species is indeed something I had considered, but it just doesn't seem right, because if that were the case, there would be some Zabraks that are more akin the the Dathomirians, and some Dathomirians that are more akin to the Zabraks in terms of physical appearance. The horns and the skin color are the biggest issues I see with this line of thinking. No Zabrak has bone white skin, and no Dathomirian has horns.

[Darth Tepes]

So I take it Logos is of the same mindset as I am that the Nightsisters are not Zabraki?

A subset of the Zabrak species is indeed something I had considered, but it just doesn't seem right, because if that were the case, there would be some Zabraks that are more akin the the Dathomirians, and some Dathomirians that are more akin to the Zabraks in terms of physical appearance. The horns and the skin color are the biggest issues I see with this line of thinking. No Zabrak has bone white skin, and no Dathomirian has horns.

If I had to make an assumption other than them not keeping their own lore straight...might have something to do with their Magicks.  Much how the dark side alters physical appearance perhaps the Nightsisters undergo a similar transformation. 

[Darth Logos]

So I take it Logos is of the same mindset as I am that the Nightsisters are not Zabraki?

A subset of the Zabrak species is indeed something I had considered, but it just doesn't seem right, because if that were the case, there would be some Zabraks that are more akin the the Dathomirians, and some Dathomirians that are more akin to the Zabraks in terms of physical appearance. The horns and the skin color are the biggest issues I see with this line of thinking. No Zabrak has bone white skin, and no Dathomirian has horns.

No horns = not a Zabrak

If I had to make an assumption other than them not keeping their own lore straight...might have something to do with their Magicks.  Much how the dark side alters physical appearance perhaps the Nightsisters undergo a similar transformation. 

Then why would the majicks amplify the horns of the males?

I wouldn't have discounted that possibility of a hybrid ultimately being what we saw, IF female Zabrak already had a genetic predisposition to not have horns. Part of that would have incorporated into the male DNA. Therefore, horns at the very least would be a male only trait. But as we've seen in the same series, this is not the case.

[Taegin Roan]

No horns = not a Zabrak
Then why would the majicks amplify the horns of the males?

I wouldn't have discounted that possibility of a hybrid ultimately being what we saw, IF female Zabrak already had a genetic predisposition to not have horns. Part of that would have incorporated into the male DNA. Therefore, horns at the very least would be a male only trait. But as we've seen in the same series, this is not the case.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I don't see how someone could argue otherwise.

[Darth Logos]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I don't see how someone could argue otherwise.

I try.

[Cyclops942]

I try.

Yes, but you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing, regardless of the value of whichever side of the argument you choose. 

Seriously, were you ever a member of a debate team?  I think you would really have enjoyed it.

[Darth Tepes]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I don't see how someone could argue otherwise.

I like to play devils advocate.  Realistically, I know its because Lucasfilm is now full of people who want to put their own stamp on SW not matter if it flies in the face of lore. 

[Sakura No Kaze]

Unrelated to horned peoples, I still think the Clone Wars would have been over in about 3 weeks if the Republic had just enlisted a few battlions of Jawas.

Two more amusing Jawa "facts:"

From Wookieepedia, Canon:
According to Stephen J. Sansweet's book Star Wars: From Concept to Screen to Collectible, the Jawas were the centerpiece in one of the strangest copyright infringement cases involving Star Wars. In 1978, small hooded creatures with glowing eyes that Neil Young called "Roadeyes" began accompanying the rocker on stage during a concert tour, in a tour film, and on the cover of the album Rust Never Sleeps. The case was settled out of court.[22]


From Wookieepedia, Legends:
Sometime after the Battle of Endor, a group of 480 Jawas was transported to Endor as part of a privately funded expedition to salvage valuable hardware from wreckage left there after the battle. They reportedly mutinied, forming a roving bandit gang that preyed upon any visitors to the moon.[7]

[Darth Logos]

Yes, but you enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing, regardless of the value of whichever side of the argument you choose. 

Seriously, were you ever a member of a debate team?  I think you would really have enjoyed it.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good argument, but I'm unsure what you are classifying as "value".

And no. I was never on a debate team. And to be brutally honest, I actually enjoy when someone else's facts and logic prove wrong. In defeat, I still acquire new knowledge and insights.

I like to play devils advocate.  Realistically, I know its because Lucasfilm is now full of people who want to put their own stamp on SW not matter if it flies in the face of lore. 

Which ends up making for a weak franchise.

Unrelated to horned peoples, I still think the Clone Wars would have been over in about 3 weeks if the Republic had just enlisted a few battlions of Jawas.

Two more amusing Jawa "facts:"

From Wookieepedia, Canon:
According to Stephen J. Sansweet's book Star Wars: From Concept to Screen to Collectible, the Jawas were the centerpiece in one of the strangest copyright infringement cases involving Star Wars. In 1978, small hooded creatures with glowing eyes that Neil Young called "Roadeyes" began accompanying the rocker on stage during a concert tour, in a tour film, and on the cover of the album Rust Never Sleeps. The case was settled out of court.[22]

What else would you see?

[Darth Tepes]

Which ends up making for a weak franchise.

Correct.  Too many cooks and all that.