Darth Sabre's aproach to TPLA's Shii Cho Dulon

[Darth Sabre]

Hey everybody.

When I started out with this dulon, I didn't know anything about the different strikes or stances; I just jumped into memorizing it as I saw it. In the process of learning, of course, I slowly discovered the TPLA videos on the Sai, Cho and Shiim strikes, and, of course, on footwork (steps and stances). As they all are part of the dulon, I didn't come around training them all in separate exercises/drills, to get the movements right (well, as right as I have them up to now is what I mean  ).

As you know, my focus is on footwork and eliminating the flaws in my lower body movements. These are the exercises I'm doing at the moment to, slowly, get it all down.

Honor Sash Sai (forward stance).

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkTHmVX33QM&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkTHmVX33QM&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

(mainly) Cho strikes in ready stance.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTqzPCusiM&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTqzPCusiM&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

Shiim and Shiak with the Hutt slide.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8tmMc0ufVU&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8tmMc0ufVU&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

Some Mix from upward Cho,  Sarlaac Sweep and Tapping the temples.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnRWlLP35D4&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnRWlLP35D4&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

Looking very much forward to tonights TPLA show on drills.  There will be much to be integrated into my training routine.

[Darth_Arkanus]

Ok, I am working on these things too, but would you mind if I offered an observation or two? I offer them purely as that, and may well be corrected by the Masters; as I am merely an acolyte learner.

Sai strike: Try to turn your hips and shoulders a little more into the strike, that way you're using your body more and your arms less. The first one was pretty well what I'm talking about, but after that you didn't get quite so much rotation.

Cho strike: Try to turn hips a little more here too, so you end in a slightly narrower stance; a little more "in line" with the feet; one pointing forwards, one outwards.

Shiim strike: Try to come slightly more through your target; to the middle line of your body. Setting up a stick to hit, that's on your centre line would probably help to practice this.

Tapping temples, same thing really, aim at the mid-line. Again, having a target should really help (it is doing me!)

Over all, try to go even slower, especially with foot work, try to float the moving foot from stance to stance, keeping good balance with your rear leg til you arrive and change weight distribution.

All in all Great work! I hope you don't mind me offering my observations.

[GrumpyBadger]

I must agree with Darth Arkanus and say congratulations on the fine work.  The only major concern I have for you is your follow-through on your strikes- your head and upper back appear to dip down.  Try to keep your back as straight as possible.  Any time one leans forward, they give an easy headshot to their opponent

awesome work!

[Darth Nonymous]

Very nice work.
Watch your right side strikes you tend to exaggerate those movements especially in cho.
The footwork has improved immensely.

I must agree with Darth Arkanus and say congratulations on the fine work.  The only major concern I have for you is your follow-through on your strikes- your head and upper back appear to dip down.  Try to keep your back as straight as possible.  Any time one leans forward, they give an easy headshot to their opponent

awesome work!

Actually, the lean forward is intentional in our system. It isn't really a lean forward as it is a rotation on that axis. If you straighten up you distort the arc and loose integrity in the strike. As long as the spine remains relaxed and in neutral, the technique is correct.

[GrumpyBadger]

Actually, the lean forward is intentional in our system. It isn't really a lean forward as it is a rotation on that axis. If you straighten up you distort the arc and loose integrity in the strike. As long as the spine remains relaxed and in neutral, the technique is correct.

then I stand corrected as that's exactly what it appears Darth Sabre is doing!  Excellent job then Darth Sabre.  As I said, that was the only concern I could readily see, but apparently it's fine.  Awesome job, and your footwork is coming along nicely.

[Darth_Arkanus]

i apologise also if my remarks were inaccurate. As I said, I'm still learning too.

[Darth Sabre]

Very nice work.
Watch your right side strikes you tend to exaggerate those movements especially in cho.
The footwork has improved immensely.  Actually, the lean forward is intentional in our system. It isn't really a lean forward as it is a rotation on that axis. If you straighten up you distort the arc and loose integrity in the strike. As long as the spine remains relaxed and in neutral, the technique is correct.

Thank you, Master. I'm REALLY glad that my footwork is moving in the right direction; it still affords a lot of concentration/attention, but it's getting more natural step by tiny step. And I will definitely have a look at the exaggeration of my strikes.

And thanks to Badger and Arkanus for sharing your point of view. It leads to discussion and clarification.

@Arkanus: I will look into some things you have mentioned. Whether they were inaccurate, I'm in no position to tell yet!

And, of course:

All in all Great work! I hope you don't mind me offering my observations.

There's only one Sith answer to this, saber brother: I will cut your throat in your sleep!  

[Darth_Arkanus]

And thanks to Badger and Arkanus for sharing your point of view. It leads to discussion and clarification.

That's good then.

@Arkanus: I will look into some things you have mentioned. Whether they were inaccurate, I'm in no position to tell yet!

And, of course:
There's only one Sith answer to this, saber brother: I will cut your throat in your sleep!  

Perhaps one of the Masters can clarify that, and I can learn something more too.

As for the Sith response, *evil grin* I look forward to you trying, and to letting you experience the full power of the Dark Side as I fry you with a little something I've been working on, my Sith brother!

[GrumpyBadger]

As for the Sith response, *evil grin* I look forward to you trying, and to letting you experience the full power of the Dark Side as I fry you with a little something I've been working on, my Sith brother!

Sometimes it is truly a wonder that you Sith ever come together and form a united front EVER in the history of the Star Wars Universe.  Not going to lie, being a Jedi Shadow would almost be a moot point and I can go back to my regular duties as an investigator on Nar Shadaa again

Darth Sabre,

I saw your comment on my thread, be careful what you wish for Saber-brother. But as to your footwork.  I've been around swords my whole life.  All I can say is that your dedication is truly showing in your work.  I can tell the difference. 

[Darth Sabre]

Ok, I am working on these things too, but would you mind if I offered an observation or two? I offer them purely as that, and may well be corrected by the Masters; as I am merely an acolyte learner.

Sai strike: Try to turn your hips and shoulders a little more into the strike, that way you're using your body more and your arms less. The first one was pretty well what I'm talking about, but after that you didn't get quite so much rotation.

Cho strike: Try to turn hips a little more here too, so you end in a slightly narrower stance; a little more "in line" with the feet; one pointing forwards, one outwards.

Shiim strike: Try to come slightly more through your target; to the middle line of your body. Setting up a stick to hit, that's on your centre line would probably help to practice this.

Tapping temples, same thing really, aim at the mid-line. Again, having a target should really help (it is doing me!)

Over all, try to go even slower, especially with foot work, try to float the moving foot from stance to stance, keeping good balance with your rear leg til you arrive and change weight distribution.

All in all Great work! I hope you don't mind me offering my observations.

Ok. First training impressions here ...

Turning more into the strike and narrower stance...

... seem to go somehow against advice I got before: that I'm leaning too much into the strikes, and should keep the feet "at either side of a rope". Don't get me wrong ... I know, that this is just a basic rule. Let me put it that way: concerning footwork, I have 3 or 4 major "pillars" that help me at the moment to get it slowly down. Keeping the feet set apart is one of those ... as well as "tearing the ground", and keeping the shin vertical and the knees "on the outside". My feelings are that as long as I need those to get my feet really firm on the ground, I wouldn't try to go "against" one (except one of our Masters strongly advised me to do so) ... even if it offered another advantage.


Your observation on "Tapping the temples"...

... is, in my view, correct. As a consequence, I will stop the "mixing" of the accelerations and will train them in their "pure" form again ... I think I lost my focus here. Thank you.


Shiim ...

... I'm not sure here. I often imagine hitting the limbs when attacking zones 2/3 5/6, so I don't need to go through the middle line. Again, I may be wrong.


And yes, I'm doing all of this in varying "tempi" beginning really slow, and increasing speed to what you see in the vids.


So far up to now...


@Badger: thanks again for your appreciation of my work.

[Darth_Arkanus]

Hi Michael,

I can understand what you mean, but let me try to explain my thinking here. Once again, I will probably be corrected, and then I'll learn something new as well. Like I said, I'm just learning too.

Ok. First training impressions here ...

Turning more into the strike and narrower stance...

... seem to go somehow against advice I got before: that I'm leaning too much into the strikes, and should keep the feet "at either side of a rope". Don't get me wrong ... I know, that this is just a basic rule. Let me put it that way: concerning footwork, I have 3 or 4 major "pillars" that help me at the moment to get it slowly down. Keeping the feet set apart is one of those ... as well as "tearing the ground", and keeping the shin vertical and the knees "on the outside". My feelings are that as long as I need those to get my feet really firm on the ground, I wouldn't try to go "against" one (except one of our Masters strongly advised me to do so) ... even if it offered another advantage.

I didn't actually say "narrow your stance", I don't believe. What I said was to turn your shoulders and hips more into the strike. Take a look at Master Nonymous' Sai video here: (comments afterwards)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsFZgDDd2No" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsFZgDDd2No</a>

The Master is doing a three-phase step, where he goes from a shoulder width stance, brings the feet together, and then out again into a shoulder width stance. This is how we were taught Gunnun Sogi (Walking stance) in Tae Kwon Do.



You'll notice that in that picture the MAist is not leaning forward, which is wrong for our system, but the foot placement is at least similar. The lean is created, I believe, by bracing the back leg and keeping the body in a straight line with the bracing leg,

Now the twist; Master Nonymous twists into the strike, turn his shoulders almost into a line forwards, placing his open side of his body almost completely to the side. The front Shoulder lines up with the front knee also. You can do this by turning your hips just enough without changing your stance, or letting the shoulder pass the knee position. (N.B. I sometimes over-rotate this stance, and am working on that too)

The Cho strike is similar, but in this video (see below) Master Nonymous is doing the Cho to the inside, i.e. towards the front leg instead of away from it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Q65D_Qpmw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Q65D_Qpmw</a>

This strikes me as akin to Tae Kwon Do's Annuro Makgi (Inward moving middle block) where you are blocking across your centre to the same side as your front leg, but with the back hand (essentially). The point is the hip rotation is going in the opposite direction here, and probably requires you to pull up a little on the front foot in order to make the hip rotation work properly.

Your observation on "Tapping the temples"...

... is, in my view, correct. As a consequence, I will stop the "mixing" of the accelerations and will train them in their "pure" form again ... I think I lost my focus here. Thank you.

Shiim ...

... I'm not sure here. I often imagine hitting the limbs when attacking zones 2/3 5/6, so I don't need to go through the middle line. Again, I may be wrong.

I'm sure you would be correct for attacking the extremities, like arms, but if you are attacking the head, then you've got a smaller, more centralised target area to work with, and it never hurts to be able to shiim "to" the centre line, rather than cutting through it as you do in Cho; or WAY through it, as in Sai.

You are however correct about tagging limbs, as in Master Nonymous' video here;

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTEKUKWyqs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTEKUKWyqs</a>

Though I was given advice once to aim more at the centre and follow through a little bit further. I stand by what I suggested, i.e. using a wooden pole as a target. That will give you exactly how far to come through, as you have to touch either side.

And yes, I'm doing all of this in varying "tempi" beginning really slow, and increasing speed to what you see in the vids.


So far up to now...

You doing a fantastic job, and I'm sure you're just going to get better and better, as I hope to do also. I'm simply trying to give you some food for thought; just as watching you practice does me.

[GrumpyBadger]

Darth Arkanus,

may I just say your explanations were very good.  Well done.

Darth Sabre,

as to "narrowing the line" in my thoughts is thusly from my Scottish Backsword and cutlass experience and actually using those weapons aboard ship:  Imagine if you will you are on for now a 30 cm wide plank.  Divide that down the middle.  Your right leg stays on the right side, and your left leg stays on the left side.  BUT, you're only on a 30 cm wide plank   Back when I was training heavily, I'm proud to say I got down to a 6" wide plank (15+/- cm) and was able to keep my balance, while under way it was an amazing experience I'll never forget.

But again, I could easily be wrong in my interpretation. But that is something I also work on now with my Destreza and Scottish Backsword for the Adrian Empire for Renaissance swordsmanship.  That way, no matter how small the area, I can keep my balance.

damn... I really wish I had a good camera like both of you guys do.  I can't wait to start posting videos and hearing all the great constructive criticism back!! Especially since I've NEVER worked with a bo before now with Master Nonymous' TPLA Shii-Cho Saberstaff dulon

[Darth Sabre]

Cho strike: Try to turn hips a little more here too, so you end in a slightly narrower stance; a little more "in line" with the feet; one pointing forwards, one outwards.

Alright, then this was the one I was misinterpreting.

Otherwise. I've carefully tried to turn my hips a little more into the strike (and Master Nonymous' picture with the shoulder over the knee was a very useful reminder, thanks a lot!), and it FEELS right at first impression.

[Darth_Arkanus]

Alright, then this was the one I was misinterpreting.

Otherwise. I've carefully tried to turn my hips a little more into the strike (and Master Nonymous' picture with the shoulder over the knee was a very useful reminder, thanks a lot!), and it FEELS right at first impression.

You're doing an awesome job & i apologise for creating the misunderstanding.

[Darth Sabre]

You're doing an awesome job & i apologise for creating the misunderstanding.

No apologies needed, saber-brother ... unless you've had an uneasy sleep lately *grin*! Your input still is most welcome.