The two worst Jedi Knights in the History of Star Wars

[Master Bluespike74]

What is that from? It have been an age since I played the original KOTOR.

It is from the book "Revan".  It started out really slow and seemed to be more of a Luke and Mara story but once you got past that part, it got really interesting.  I wish they would do one from an earlier than that time period where we get to see Revan against the Mandos.

[Cyondios]

What is that from? It have been an age since I played the original KOTOR.

Then it's the perfect time to play through it again! I just finished up another play through myself. Time for Kotor2

[haldir]

While others choose not to comment, I will. I want to break this down and address all of your points, one by one.

First:

The Jedi are not considered to be arrogant. They embody peace, tranquility, and a calm demeanor. At one point, when confronting Palpatine, Yoda asks him if he was surprised. Palpatine responds with "Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda." Mace Windu was the furthest thing from arrogant. As a matter of fact, I believe Mace to be one of the only Jedi to be in FULL control of his emotions. Mace created the lightsaber form called Vaapad, which is a variant of Juyo. This form takes allows for the user to use all emotions while fighting, but forcing him to remain calm and in full control. Walking this line is extremely difficult as it is very easy to full victim to anger and let those emotions drive you.

Mace Windu didn't have a "downfall". He was betrayed by Anakin and murdered by Palpatine.

He took what was left of the Council with him. The others were off on missions. Even Yoda was on away, with the wookies on Kashyyk. He did the best he could with what he had. He didn't assume anything.

This would make sense, and if so, directly contradicts your previous statement: "He just assumes 4 masters would be enough to take on a sith lord". If he did, in fact, use this ability, it would explain why he was able to take out the first two Masters so easily. By the time he got to the third, the effect would have worn off, allowing for the remaining two to be able to fight back.

Neither won. It was a draw.

Palpatine was stronger in the Force?! Did you not see Yoda catch his lighting IN HIS HAND?! There are other items I could mention that would indicate that Yoda's mastery of the Force is just as strong as Palpatine's, but I won't. I will go so far as to say that I think that a Yoda v. Palpatine fight would last a long time as both are evenly matched.

there are a lot of examples of arrogant jedi in the expanded universe.  Master Windu was one of the few to gain complete mastery of the shatterpoint technique, which allows you to see fracture lines and breaking points in everything from physical objects to beings emotions and thoughts.  He saw before any of the other masters that anakin was connected to palpatine through the darkside.   He knew that palpaitine was twisting anakins perception and loyalties but understimated palpatine and believed he was merely being used by Sidious for a long time. they all knew that anakin was stronger than, or at least had the potential to be stronger than any other Jedi, but Windu and the rest were basically trying to discipline anakin cuz they knew he was not in control of his emotions.  The fact that they were worried about this and still couldnt see it happening may or may not be arrogance.  But if Windu had told anakin about palpatine sooner then things may have turned out different.  Palpatine was a few steps ahead of the jedi the whole time and he made his final move with anakin when he knew that the other masters would find out about him and try to kill him.  He arranged for general greivous to get killed by Obi Wan as a trap to get obi wan out of the picture, as he knew that he would never persuade anakin to make the plunge with obi wan's voice or reason around.  He convinced anakin that he was the only one that cared about him and wasnt trying to use him, and then told him that he was the sith lord and that being a sith didnt make him a bad guy, he told anakin that the jedi would come to assasinate him, and that when they did he said he would not fight back so they would kill him in cold blood just for being a sith. and thats what it looked like when anakin walked in the room and palpatine pretended to be week. Palpatine was a mastermind, but he was equally powerful in the force, and part of his ability to manipulate came from the force, he could read the future and influence the minds of thousands of beings at a given time.  He was more powerful than Yoda and Yoda could feel it.  He fled from Sidious because he knew that he would die if he kept fighting and he didnt want the jedi to die with him. 

[Venger]

You've got to admit that Lucas didn't do these characters any justice in the films considering how interesting they were developed in Clone Wars, The Clone Wars animations, books etc. These scenes where just rushed in my opinion. I know there is meant to be force powers behind what’s going on with Jedi and Sith in these scenes and we all loved to dream about what was going on with Darth an Obi before all of this was really solidified in books and filsm etc., but come on! Let’s see what happens in the next few years. Can't get as worse than the raw deal batman fans have had. Batfleck... really!

[Darth Burgaar]

Ok! My 'Two cents' 

This scene was completely -WRONG- and obviously rushed by GL ( BAD GL! BAAAD! *pulls out the nerf bat and gives him a severe nerfing* )

Anyone who has read the books or has watched the Clone Wars series would know that these 3 Jedi Knights were some of the best in the order!
Someone used the experimental 'DERP' ray on them didn't they?!  (*ZAP!! "Deeeerrrp! . . AHH! I iz Stabbed!" *    )

I grimace every time I see the beginning of this scene . . . The rest of it is cool though! 

[Avenger172]

Truly sad, being members of the council you would think that they would last at least a little longer.  Maybe even more disappointing is how Kit-fitsco dies just a little bit later, sad because he was one of my favorite Jedi of all time.

[Master Bluespike74]

If you read the book, it goes into much greater detail about that scene.  I think everyone was in too big of a hurry to get to Mace vs Sidious to include everything that happened in the book.  The book does a much better job of explaining how Sidious caught two off guard. 









Spoiler:  He didn't leap but threw 2 lightsabers directly at them while recording a message to make them look like they were assassins to play back to Anakin at a later time.  They were caught off guard thinking that Sidious was hiding somewhere in the room and was not exactly Chancellor Palpatine. 

[Luna]

If you read the book, it goes into much greater detail about that scene.  I think everyone was in too big of a hurry to get to Mace vs Sidious to include everything that happened in the book.  The book does a much better job of explaining how Sidious caught two off guard. 









Spoiler:  He didn't leap but threw 2 lightsabers directly at them while recording a message to make them look like they were assassins to play back to Anakin at a later time.  They were caught off guard thinking that Sidious was hiding somewhere in the room and was not exactly Chancellor Palpatine. 

Man, the novelization is such a good read. I especially love the intro.

[Master Nero Attoru]

Man, the novelization is such a good read. I especially love the intro.

The intro is absolutely fantastic.  If that doesn't get you hooked on the book, there's something very wrong with you lol

[Darth Obvious]

I agree with what some have said earlier: they should have shown a protracted fight in which Sidious holds off all four of them, and then gradually takes each of them down one-by-one. At the very least, Lucas needed to show that these Jedi weren't completely useless. Ugh. 

I don't know what's worse... that scene, or the earlier part when Obi-Wan says "Sith Lords are our specialty."

Uh, what??? The only time he and Anakin faced a Sith Lord they got their butts kicked, so what in the world is he talking about? He was so smug about it, too. It was awful.

But worst part in the movie was probably "I've got the high ground Anakin!" LMAO, as if that were really important all of a sudden to Jedi who can practically fly. And this is while Anakin is standing on a rock floating in LAVA as if nothing were happening...

Possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

[JdiKnhtJMH]

I know Lucas just frelled this up, but here's something:

Query: What if Mace WANTED the remaining council members eliminated by Sidious? Anakin VS Obi Wan was sure to happen eventually, and Mace could have likely iced Yoda... By the end of the Palpatine fight Mace was ready to kill Palps and take over the Republic.

Food for thought.

[gebhac]

I doubt Windu would have taken over the Republic, I find it far more like him to force the Senate to grant the Jedi Order the autonomy it once had a few millenia before and do things their own way.

Watching ROTS with all the lightsaber fights the worst one was sidious vs 4 Council Masters.  Taking one out immediately isn't a big stretch but two then a third moments later is too much for a Sith Lord who believe lightsabers were beneath him.

Regarding Anakin attempting to leap over Obi-Wan rather than doing something more sensible, it was suicidal and to me that what it was: a suicide attempt by Jedi.  Which in turn leads to Anakin shouting "I hate you" to Obi-Wan.  Why did he say that?  Because Obi-Wan could not and would not kill him and left Anakin to suffer.  And it is also a good place to say that is where the Anakin Skywalker persona disappeared and Vader became more or less permanent.

As a sidenote, it is very clear that Anakin didn't want to kill Obi-Wan despite being all evil and Sithy and feeling betrayed.  Why?  1. Because he was just as attached to Obi-Wan as he was to Padme.  2. Is it truly believable that Anakin wiped out dozens of Jedi Knights and Masters (this includes Battlemaster Cin Drallig, the head lightsaber instructor versed in all seven Forms) as well as countless younglings and Padawans but fails to kill Obi-Wan?  I think not.  Obi-Wan may be a lightsaber genius and super awesome but he's not the Chosen One who appears to be able to do anything if he wants to.