Jedi unarmed combat style

[Ryn]

Here's the problem. I dare anyone to come up with a martial art that would NOT be suitable.
 

I completely agree with this.  I imagine any unarmed combat the Jedi were taught was not only highly augmented with their ability to use the force (thus, hard to apply our non-fantasy unarmed arts to it). All martial arts have the same goal at their core: self-defense.  Different martial arts simply come at it in different angles. I think any technique, regardless of the name of the art, that aids in self-defense would be something the Jedi were urged to use. I believe the intent behind its use would be more emphasized than what specific technique was applied.

If you watch the movies and read the books, there is never really a specific martial art that comes out. It is simple, basic kicks, strikes and joint locks. So, I could see each form of lightsaber combat having a few basic techniques that naturally arise from the flow of the weapon, but I agree one would be hard-pressed to come up with an entire empty hand form based on the limited knowledge of the movies and books. 

[dhenwood]

It isnt practical to bother looking how to use your hands and feet to fight too much when you can shove things with your mind and are taught never to drop your weapon. That and due to the nature of the force they can pretty much all use free running to get out of trouble. Maul is the flashy exception but I full on believe that was Ray Parks wanting to show off his wushu.

[Darth Nonymous]

Could you elaborate on that point? Why don't you think they apply that well?

The 7 Forms elaborate different strategies with the weapon. You can do this because the weapon limits exactly what you can do. Bare handed martial arts use pretty much all of those strategies at the same time for the opposite reason.

[jasond22]

The 7 Forms elaborate different strategies with the weapon. You can do this because the weapon limits exactly what you can do. Bare handed martial arts use pretty much all of those strategies at the same time for the opposite reason.

Maybe dividing 7 ways doesn't make sense, but there still could be some sensible divisions...do those instead?  Stuff like: Primarily defensive, non-lethal offense (especially good for a Soresu Jedi?), lethal offense, techniques that only are effective with Force augmentation, techniques that are all "economy of motion" (for elderly Jedi that are conserving their Force power for other things in combat?), tumbling-oriented, etc.

[dhenwood]

The only difference between lethal and non lethal martial arts is at which point you stop. All martial arts can potentially be as lethal as each other, there really is no division. As Bruce Lee pointed out there are only so many ways to move your body and variations of body types thus all martial arts are the same its just they focus on different things, but all roundhouse kicks are a roundhouse no matter what you call it in any language the same for wristlocks throws etc.

[jasond22]

The only difference between lethal and non lethal martial arts is at which point you stop.

If an art is all pressure-points, non-lethal submission holds, sweeps, and strikes to non-lethal areas, I'd call it non-lethally-oriented.  If it emphasizes lots of strikes to windpipe, spine, Force-augmented strikes intended to kill, throws that spike you onto your neck or head, and neck-breaking grappling, etc, I'd call it lethally-oriented.  And while an eye gouge or ripping off an ear isn't lethal, it's a lot more violent and permanently crippling than less damaging options.  So I'd still say you can have a non-lethal art that would be the preference of some Jedi, at least as their initial option for how to end a fight.

Just like all lightsaber fighting is a continuum...few are going to only ever use ONLY 1 Form...the unarmed fighting would be a continuum.  A Jedi might focus on and prefer a non-lethal form...but when he felt appropriate, he may also use lethal (or violently crippling) techniques.

[Jammo]

As a Jedi, I would utilize joint locks, takedowns, and come-alongs as the basis of any hand style. The point would be to incapacitate an opponent without harming them, I would think, so most elements of striking and various harmful techniques would be avoided. This assumes, of course, that a Jedi is using hand techniques instead of the lightsaber... when deprived of it, the rules might change.

[Darth Nonymous]

Non lethal is not always the humane way to fight. I can cause a person a ton of pain with no real injury to show for it. If I do it past the point where they would stop, I am torturing them.

As I said, I will be compartmentalizing them, just not in the manner of the 7 forms. There will not be a Form V fist set. It would be like having an empty handed saber set.

[Airk Tobruk]

As I said, I will be compartmentalizing them, just not in the manner of the 7 forms. There will not be a Form V fist set. It would be like having an empty handed saber set.

I, for one, am looking forward to that!

[Oramac]

I, for one, am looking forward to that!

I'll be very interested to see how this turns out as well!

[dhenwood]

If an art is all pressure-points, non-lethal submission holds, sweeps, and strikes to non-lethal areas, I'd call it non-lethally-oriented.  If it emphasizes lots of strikes to windpipe, spine, Force-augmented strikes intended to kill, throws that spike you onto your neck or head, and neck-breaking grappling, etc, I'd call it lethally-oriented.  And while an eye gouge or ripping off an ear isn't lethal, it's a lot more violent and permanently crippling than less damaging options.  So I'd still say you can have a non-lethal art that would be the preference of some Jedi, at least as their initial option for how to end a fight.

Just like all lightsaber fighting is a continuum...few are going to only ever use ONLY 1 Form...the unarmed fighting would be a continuum.  A Jedi might focus on and prefer a non-lethal form...but when he felt appropriate, he may also use lethal (or violently crippling) techniques.

The only way you can use a submission in a fight is to choke someone unconcious or break their arm, especially in the life or death scenario a jedi would likely face. As for pressure point strikes etc. I dont believe they work that well at all to incapacitate someone, their most applicable use seems to be too cause pain on an already captured individual or to restrain him not something I could see a Jedi using. Judo and Aikido might be good for a jedi to use as a swift throw and bit of knee on face is unlikely to kill but still nothings harder than the ground as they say.

[Darth Nonymous]

The only way you can use a submission in a fight is to choke someone unconscious or break their arm, especially in the life or death scenario a Jedi would likely face. As for pressure point strikes etc. I dont believe they work that well at all to incapacitate someone, their most applicable use seems to be too cause pain on an already captured individual or to restrain him not something I could see a Jedi using. Judo and Aikido might be good for a Jedi to use as a swift throw and bit of knee on face is unlikely to kill but still nothings harder than the ground as they say.

Pressure points are not reliably effective in real life. Individuals respond differently to them and they are not always in the same places on people. Most PP don't cause me much pain at all, so I just let people do them. It takes so much energy and concentration on their part I can usually finnish the round right there.

But even there, the possibility of killing with a focused strike to a point is there. Any thing in the neck or head area can cause anything from internal bleeding, to aneurysms to strokes. So, I have to agree with every art is lethal depending on how far you take it.

[Genkaku Sho`shyk]

i will just add.... as for unarmed jedi martial arts... its painfully obvious... take yoda as an example... it would be force power against force power.... who can control it better...

and IF they were not outright blasting force waves, or force lightning.. and really getting down and dirty with hand to hand.. i can see them focusing the force into the strikes as they kick /punch with the force of a truck....

but it is as we all know, there is little in the movies.. and stories to lead to any real information of an unarmed combat style... i would follow what the other masters have said and learn the forms without a saber inhand, .. not only to know the motions, but also to learn your own body and what can /cannont be done unarmed with the forms....  will be keeping a close eye on this subject


*****a siad note i would like to add.... in the dooku vs yoda battle... im a little angered that yoda didnt just force blast the big metal thing away from the obi-wan when dooku droped it... witch would have allowed him to stop dooku in the process..... but... we all hated the details of the first 3 movies. *****

[Crescent King]

*****a siad note i would like to add.... in the dooku vs yoda battle... im a little angered that yoda didnt just force blast the big metal thing away from the obi-wan when dooku droped it... witch would have allowed him to stop dooku in the process..... but... we all hated the details of the first 3 movies. *****

I think of it like this, if a bat is being swung at my friends head my first reaction is to catch it, not to block or hit it away. Most reactions to something falling is to either catch the object or try and move the person in its path. Just my look on the situation.

[jasond22]

Obviously many things are lethal, if you take it far enough.

And choke holds are obviously the easiest and most useful submission in a hard fight.

An art which teaches NO choke holds or arm bars or any submission, but only strikes and throws that spike you onto your neck or head, and neck-breaking grappling, that's still harder to apply in a graduated, non-lethal fashion than an art that includes those things.

As for strikes to non-lethal areas...I'm pretty unlikely to kill you by kicking out your feet from under you, kicking at your calves, or at your thighs, or your shoulders, but any of those things can be ways of tripping you up, spinning you about, pushing you away, and disrupting your balance, momentum, or attack...with then leaves options...am I going to talk to you while I've slowed the fight down to try to cool things down...will they just be setups for submission or a choke?  An art which doesn't teach any of these strategies, is missing some non-lethal options.