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Author Topic: Warning/Heads Up  (Read 2652 times)
BenPass
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« on: January 31, 2014, 11:06:57 PM »

Hey folks, I've noticed something interesting in the GCW RP. There are a few characters that have been written as being insubordinate or "like doing things their own way".

Now, while I may not be an expert on the military, I DO know that in real life, it involves drilling/training and has superior officers and ranks so that subordinates must obey immediately and without question. It's meant to keep them alive and so they don't jeopardize the mission/military/etc.

The problem lies in the fact that there are some of the troops on the Qanotha who ARE written as being insubordinate or "like doing things their own way" and generally act like people who are getting ready to join boot camp; people who are still civilians and just have the attitude and aggression most do when they join or enlist.

I'm not saying that people need to change how their characters are written, but I am giving the warning/heads up that we've got to play the characters as we've written them. There is room for growth, but it's not going to happen magically or in the course of the hyperspace jump.

In order for it to be realistic with how they've been written, such characters cannot be perfectly functioning soldiers in the field. Keep in mind also that the Rebellion could NOT have succeeded against such a staunch military force like the Empire without strict training and obedience from their men. It's unrealistic to think that way.

So, I do encourage character growth (as always), and coming into line lest there be military punishments, but I wanted to give the heads up that these characters who have ignored orders and training will NOT become great field operatives over the course of a single mission/hyperspace jump.
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Kresnik
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 11:27:18 PM »

I disagree with the statement regarding "NOT have succeeded against such a staunch military ...without strict training and obedience ..."

It's actually more historically accurate in regards to rebellions against large empires.

Rebellions are usually fought with small groups of unorganized units attacking in and out and guerrilla tactics with little communication and so forth.

Rebellions are often started by a main catalyst but those that fight have their own motivations and therefore levels of obedience are not as strong as say the Empire.

A strict fascist government would have a large standing trained and obedient army either fighting for money or too avoid slavery or poverty.

A rebellion is being fought by passionate idealists who may not be natural soldiers who have their own way of handling things etc

That's why we have issues in foreign nation re-building ...

I have a nice big scar in my shoulder/ chest  to prove the effectiveness of a rebellion being fought by idealist with little obedience to anything but their religion ...

Just a thought ... Rebellions are usually won not by obedient and trained fighters but by anyone who is willing to destroy the oppressors.
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Aletani
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 11:43:35 PM »

I disagree with the statement regarding "NOT have succeeded against such a staunch military ...without strict training and obedience ..."

It's actually more historically accurate in regards to rebellions against large empires.

Rebellions are usually fought with small groups of unorganized units attacking in and out and guerrilla tactics with little communication and so forth.

Rebellions are often started by a main catalyst but those that fight have their own motivations and therefore levels of obedience are not as strong as say the Empire.

A strict fascist government would have a large standing trained and obedient army either fighting for money or too avoid slavery or poverty.

A rebellion is being fought by passionate idealists who may not be natural soldiers who have their own way of handling things etc

That's why we have issues in foreign nation re-building ...

I have a nice big scar in my shoulder/ chest  to prove the effectiveness of a rebellion being fought by idealist with little obedience to anything but their religion ...

Just a thought ... Rebellions are usually won not by obedient and trained fighters but by anyone who is willing to destroy the oppressors.

I would have to disagree with you. They are a bunch of men who have rebelled against the main power/gov't/etc, however, even guerrilla tactics are only as good as their weakest member. there was still organization within the revolutionary war. they were rag tag farmers/men, but they still had militia rankings and leadership.

the Patriot for example. yes rebels, however, Mel Gibson's character was the leader and the men followed his orders strictly realizing that a leader and obedience is necessary for proper  functioning of an ambush/insurgency and survival of the team.

ben is not implying that the men must be as strict or as hard nosed or as obedient to the letter as the empire, that is almost impossible without becoming what the Empire is. However, it is necessary for a military group to be organized and obedient for missions to be a success and overall for a revolution on this scale to be successful. in the movies, you had clear ranks and mission briefings and the men were subordinate and orderly when called upon to be so. they also were able to have down time, but in times of missions and drilling and on duty, they were always shown to be organized, following commands and functioning as a military force.

the exceptions are the main characters who would not be dynamic and interesting enough for an epic saga if they merely followed orders, hence why they are not military officers/grunts/etc. however, in the RP we are not dealing with main characters per se, we are dealing with the men and women who were behind the scenes in the movies the gears moving the rebellion ever onward, which is only realistic if there is order within the chaos.

while not on missions or on duty or drilling it is quite acceptable and most realistic for the men to be at least a little rowdy. however, when it comes to doing their duty and following orders in general by their ranking officers or for missions or training, they would quickly see that order and obedience is needed or they or their comrades would die in the field.

i apologize for that being very unorganized, those are my thoughts as they came to me.
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Krace
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 11:49:03 PM »


I have a nice big scar in my shoulder/ chest  to prove the effectiveness of a rebellion being fought by idealist with little obedience to anything but their religion ...


Wow...  Well bravo to you sir for putting your ass on the line for us.  I know I appreciate you putting yourself in harms way to protect people.



As to questioning what people say, this scene in ESB came to mind:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcbbnHHDpTg


(I've totally forgotten how to get an actual video to post)

He questions her with the nature of the dangerous situation they are being placed in, and she simply reassures him, no other officer reprimands him, they finish their briefing and get to it.  This makes sense, at least in my mind, how things might be in the Rebellion.  Not always, but sometimes.  They have their military, they have their discipline, but they give people some leeway.  Obviously at some point that leeway runs out, but it is still allowed to them.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:53:09 PM by Krace » Logged




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BenPass
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 12:03:09 AM »

Perhaps I should have just left that line out since it has seemed to skew my message. My intention is simply to let people know before the mission begins that they will not become super soldiers once boots are on the ground if they've not trained, and they aren't likely to start listening to orders if they haven't listened to orders before.
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Krace
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 12:05:09 AM »

That part does make sense and I pretty much agree with it.
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 12:06:04 AM »

I think what ben is also trying to say is that you have to play your character as you've written them. If you have a character who's square and does everything perfectly by the books, they aren't going to suddenly go all rogueish. If you've written that your character has an issue with those in command they aren't going to suddenly be a perfect soldier in the field obeying every command. Sure our characters can grow and change from what we've initially written them as in their character sheets, but they aren't going to suddenly change overnight.

After all Belyra may grudgingly follow orders, especially if her life is on the line as a result (survival is paramount after all), but she aint gonna just follow them obediently without at least a little backchat or questioning them. And if she thinks following those orders will overly endanger her life I'm sure you know what path she's gonna take Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 12:41:15 PM »

Kresnik: point for your sacrifice. I thought about the USMC but I'm way too individualistic to pass boot camp.

Aletani: point for your point!

You've both got good points, a small group is likely to be pretty roguish, but a group the size of the Rebel Alliance trying to take out a Galactic Empire would most def need a bit more dicipline to be effective.
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