Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse

[Master Uilos]

Agreed.

Ok, so mental aspects are the driving elements that separate the forms and thus how a saber is operated in a given duel...of the fates.

(Sorry about that. I pun shamelessly. Be advised. Or warned.)

And these philosophies, while written, are largely in development. And therefore...debatable? Open to discussion/revision/elaboration?

For instance, I see Shien as its own form. I understand its aggressive nature links it with Djem So, but it is also separated from Djem So's emphasis on brute strength and imposing natural stature. Performed at range, Shien does not - as I see it - require its user to be physically big or strong, so it becomes available to a larger demographic of students than Djem So.

There were parts of this I didn't answer, and looking back I feel I should have.

The Forms, in canon, have specific moves and physical aspects.

As for the Real World: there is nothing set in stone. Unless Uncle George says "These are the Forms, enjoy", nothing is set in stone. and even then we will debate and argue.

[Takuya]

Hi guys, my name's Craig Page. I am longstanding member of Stage Combat group NY Jedi. A year ago, I had begun working on a primer and discourse on the Seven Forms of Lightsaber combat. The paper focused on the historical (in canon) and psychological context of each form while also discussing it's strengths, weaknesses and possible analogues in real world martial arts. It also included mentions of examples from some of the Lightsaber Stage Combat groups I had been in contact with, as well as different types of lightsaber designs and other concerns.

I would like to present it here to the saber community at large to get their opinion, comments , editions and additions. The idea is to develop this further in a bid to help the community create and develop forms and fights that best represent the Seven.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111310/7%20Forms%20of%20Lightsaber%20Combat.pdf

PS: While it says it in the document. I would like to point out that this document does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NY Jedi, SaberWars.com, LIJedi, or any other entity within and without the Star Wars community. This is my own opinion.

Well I don't know if your group says much about you, but I'll  watch it!

[Master Uilos]

Well I don't know if your group says much about you, but I'll  watch it!

I'm not sure how to take that statement lol

[DravvenSol]

As for the Real World: there is nothing set in stone. Unless Uncle George says "These are the Forms, enjoy", nothing is set in stone. and even then we will debate and argue.

That does seem to be the way. Lol!

[Malek / Katarn]

read it! thought it was extremely in depth and far more interesting than the brief passages on the forms from the way of the jedi book.

thanks for sharing

[DravvenSol]

read it! thought it was extremely in depth and far more interesting than the brief passages on the forms from the way of the jedi book.

thanks for sharing

Agreed!

[DravvenSol]

We are in agreement then. Shien and Djem So are joined by Theme: Returning the opponents Attack. Shien focuses on groups and returning ranged blaster attacks while Djem So is a Form meant for dueling using one's own power (whether physical or Force assisted). So they are the same kind of Form, but their applications vary. Shien relies on Grace and Speed, while Djem So relies on Strength and Force.

Yes, we agree! In essence there are two manifestations of the Form V retaliation philosophy (right?). Seems some of my own musings need revision. Thanks!

[Master Uilos]

Yes, we agree! In essence there are two manifestations of the Form V retaliation philosophy (right?). Seems some of my own musings need revision. Thanks!

Yes, they are two diffeent manifestations. Shien shows it's Soresu origins, focusing on the group, speed and ranged attacks. Djem So focuses on it's Makashi side, focusing on the Duel. Both are geared towards retaliation, but go at it differently.

[DravvenSol]

Offensive in nature. Versatile. I like it.

Yes, they are two diffeent manifestations. Shien shows it's Soresu origins, focusing on the group, speed and ranged attacks. Djem So focuses on it's Makashi side, focusing on the Duel. Both are geared towards retaliation, but go at it differently.

[mwood1313]

Greetings all,

I'm new to Ultrasabers and just got my Dark Initiate V3 Sith.

I'm trying to find out how I can locate a Saber Organization near myself in Massachusetts.

Thanks:

[Master Uilos]

Greetings all,

I'm new to Ultrasabers and just got my Dark Initiate V3 Sith.

I'm trying to find out how I can locate a Saber Organization near myself in Massachusetts.

Thanks:

Welcome!

However, this isn't quite the thread you should be posting this in. It's best if you create your own topic in this section to look for interested parties

[Master Rel]

I very interesting thread...a thought to consider is that these forms represent a structure or format of approach and not the final end result...meaning that everyone would end up with a different variation of a given form.

So perhaps a way to look at the seven forms is to consider them as layers.

A priority of precedence, like

1. Shii Cho
2. Soresu
3. Djem So

This jedi would say that he follows the Shii Cho form...but in truth balances certain aspects of all three.

Another might use

1. Soresu
2. Soresu
3. Soresu

A true master/student of Soresu...creating a specific focus unseen by the casual familiarity.

But I suspect that most players would use two or three or more styles to create a blended or fusion style that would favor one over the others...even if this other style aspect is a single move of another style.

To follow just one style I would suspect would be to invite weakness as your opponent would know what to expect...unless you were an icon, one who was nearly without flaw...so fast, so strong, so perfect that it doesn't matter that your opponent knows what to expect...but this would be rare...so I suspect most of us would fall into a bastard style of two or three that allows a bit of flexibility and option.



PS
Great article...

[Master Uilos]

I very interesting thread...a thought to consider is that these forms represent a structure or format of approach and not the final end result...meaning that everyone would end up with a different variation of a given form.

So perhaps a way to look at the seven forms is to consider them as layers.

A priority of precedence, like

1. Shii Cho
2. Soresu
3. Djem So

This jedi would say that he follows the Shii Cho form...but in truth balances certain aspects of all three.

Another might use

1. Soresu
2. Soresu
3. Soresu

A true master/student of Soresu...creating a specific focus unseen by the casual familiarity.

But I suspect that most players would use two or three or more styles to create a blended or fusion style that would favor one over the others...even if this other style aspect is a single move of another style.

To follow just one style I would suspect would be to invite weakness as your opponent would know what to expect...unless you were an icon, one who was nearly without flaw...so fast, so strong, so perfect that it doesn't matter that your opponent knows what to expect...but this would be rare...so I suspect most of us would fall into a bastard style of two or three that allows a bit of flexibility and option.



PS
Great article...

Yes, I say it at the end. No one learned JUST ONE form. That's insane. Everyone started off learning shii cho, then they progressed to learn the other forms (except VII, which was only taught with permission). During their training, they would excel at one or two forms and Master them, but they'd be grounded enough in the others.

[ZequarX]

Fantastic read! Job well done Uilos.

I'm bookmarking this as a field guide

[ZequarX]

So perhaps a way to look at the seven forms is to consider them as layers.

A priority of precedence, like

1. Shii Cho
2. Soresu
3. Djem So

This jedi would say that he follows the Shii Cho form...but in truth balances certain aspects of all three.

Another might use

1. Soresu
2. Soresu
3. Soresu

A true master/student of Soresu...creating a specific focus unseen by the casual familiarity.

But I suspect that most players would use two or three or more styles to create a blended or fusion style that would favor one over the others...even if this other style aspect is a single move of another style.

To follow just one style I would suspect would be to invite weakness as your opponent would know what to expect...unless you were an icon, one who was nearly without flaw...so fast, so strong, so perfect that it doesn't matter that your opponent knows what to expect...but this would be rare...so I suspect most of us would fall into a bastard style of two or three that allows a bit of flexibility and option

Thats an excellent way of putting it. I think taking aspects of certin forms can mold you into a Force (no pun intended) to be reckoned with, IMO. In that case, I know for sure I combine at least 3 just based off the principles and acts of what I know thus far:

1. Shien (w/out reverse grip)
2. Ataru
3. Soresu