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Author Topic: Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse  (Read 70050 times)
Master Uilos
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« on: July 29, 2011, 08:54:32 PM »

Hi guys, my name's Craig Page. I am longstanding member of Stage Combat group NY Jedi. A year ago, I had begun working on a primer and discourse on the Seven Forms of Lightsaber combat. The paper focused on the historical (in canon) and psychological context of each form while also discussing it's strengths, weaknesses and possible analogues in real world martial arts. It also included mentions of examples from some of the Lightsaber Stage Combat groups I had been in contact with, as well as different types of lightsaber designs and other concerns.

I would like to present it here to the saber community at large to get their opinion, comments , editions and additions. The idea is to develop this further in a bid to help the community create and develop forms and fights that best represent the Seven.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111310/7%20Forms%20of%20Lightsaber%20Combat.pdf

PS: While it says it in the document. I would like to point out that this document does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NY Jedi, SaberWars.com, LIJedi, or any other entity within and without the Star Wars community. This is my own opinion.
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Caine
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 09:12:20 PM »

Topic stickied. Great info here.
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Qui-Tom Helms
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 03:47:32 PM »

Woa.  Very impressive and informative...do you mind if I print it out??
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Master Uilos
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2011, 10:12:30 AM »

by all means, man
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Ultra
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2011, 02:57:25 PM »

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for making your first post so informative.  If our own Master Caine thought this topic worthy of prominence in this hall, that is great praise indeed.
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Talon
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 07:30:27 PM »

Hi guys, my name's Craig Page. I am longstanding member of Stage Combat group NY Jedi. A year ago, I had begun working on a primer and discourse on the Seven Forms of Lightsaber combat. The paper focused on the historical (in canon) and psychological context of each form while also discussing it's strengths, weaknesses and possible analogues in real world martial arts. It also included mentions of examples from some of the Lightsaber Stage Combat groups I had been in contact with, as well as different types of lightsaber designs and other concerns.

I would like to present it here to the saber community at large to get their opinion, comments , editions and additions. The idea is to develop this further in a bid to help the community create and develop forms and fights that best represent the Seven.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111310/7%20Forms%20of%20Lightsaber%20Combat.pdf

PS: While it says it in the document. I would like to point out that this document does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NY Jedi, SaberWars.com, LIJedi, or any other entity within and without the Star Wars community. This is my own opinion.


Craig,

I know I said this tons of times with the group I'm with in Texas: The New York Jedi is the group that got me into the whole Saber thing. I've looked up to you guys a great deal. (The Tuesday Night fight between Omar and Jester is -Still- one of my favorite choreographed fights to date. Smiley ) Thank you soooo much for posting this. I have spent a few nights reading it over and I must say that the information presented made me review how even I approach the saber. I know for a fact I will be studying this, then going back and review the NCSCS system and seeing how I can make practical application using your paper and the NovaCaine system. (Shameless plug for the DVD. I know. But it's good! Smiley )

Thanks again Craig for putting up that wonderful paper. Hopefully one day I'll get back home to New York and do the clash, rebound, follow through, 6's and 8's with you all.

Novastar, Caine...keep doing what you do. You both inspire me to inspire others in my saber group.

Last but certainly not least: Ultra...thank you for making one of the most durable, rock solid (and feared due to the bullet tip) saber I've ever owned. The Counsular.

I'll stop here before I start huggin' everyone.
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Novastar
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 03:36:05 AM »

@Talon... you're welcome!  Caine & I are glad to inspire even a single person, so it's always good news to hear when someone's enjoyed our 1st DVD.

Speaking of which, Mark & and met regarding DVD#2 on Friday morning... and my new HD cam is comin' soon, so... ... progress!!  Smiley
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Xiphos
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 07:45:03 PM »

Outstanding.
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Elzanith
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 08:27:56 PM »

Outstanding.

I Fully agree, i now know my next saber will be a curved hilt hopfully custom built by Ultra Wink

but for now which form would i use with a staff\duel sabers i need to figure out........
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Master Uilos
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 10:40:25 PM »

I Fully agree, i now know my next saber will be a curved hilt hopfully custom built by Ultra Wink

but for now which form would i use with a staff\duel sabers i need to figure out........


The thing I noticed with Staff and Dual Sabers(Jar'kai) is that the other forms could be plugged into the weapons with some modifications, especially Dual. SaberStaff could be used with any form but Makashi, which is what the Saber Pike ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_pike) seems to excel at due to it's use of stabbing
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Master Uilos
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 10:49:12 PM »

Thank you guys for the kind words. They mean alot. I started my sabering with a Blue PVC Dominix, recommended to me by NYJ. I'd still have that saber but it died of Pneumonia (Halloween Parade during torrential downpour. The Wiring was drowned and shorted out) .

My posting this here is a way of saying "thank you"

And please, comments, critiques and questions are welcome. I want to make this thing work as best as possible
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Master Nero Attoru
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 06:06:59 AM »

The thing I noticed with Staff and Dual Sabers(Jar'kai) is that the other forms could be plugged into the weapons with some modifications, especially Dual. SaberStaff could be used with any form but Makashi, which is what the Saber Pike ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_pike) seems to excel at due to it's use of stabbing


I agree with you on this.  I was just telling Elzanith on another thread that I couldn't see Makashi being utilized with a staff - it relies on fine blade control and manipulation.  Glad to see my theory validated!

Great writing man, very extensive and informative.  I agree with much of it, and some has given me new ideas about the Forms.  Thanks for sharing!
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 02:20:33 PM »

I would have to disagree a bit on the staff "not" being used for thrusting--most certainly it could be used as such.  Granted, the way the "double lightsaber staff" was designed when they made Episode I... it's not exactly the "true" kind of staff most martial artists are used to... but you could certainly make thrusting actions with it.

As it is... I have plans to show that (at least in Caine and my system of NCSCS) the staff or dual sabers can be used for Forms I & II, and probably even III & IV.

Later on, there will be a staff form (it has been planned since the start), along with a dual saber form (it has been planned from the start).  Again, these come from a more combative perspective where they actually MATCH UP to a defense form, so that you know:

* What action is meant to be an attack
* What action is meant to be a defense
* What specific targets are being addressed
* What action (if any) is meant to be a saberspin
* Etc.

Personally, I've found that a lot of forms out there end up just being "movements in the air", sort of losing the core purpose of what forms were all about in martial arts.  It's another reason I chose to have them "pair up", so that the feeling of 1 & 0... light & dark... up & down... give & take... is there.  In my eyes... a lightsaber "form" without a countering form--is somewhat useless.  My opinion.

I guess with the exception of "saberspin" forms, where... it's just for glitz + finger/wrist manipulation/strengthening.  Smiley
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Creator of the NSCFCDs (CF Sound CDs)
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Co-Creator of NCSCS (Nova & Caine's Saber Combat System)

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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 03:19:34 PM »

Awesome document! Great and informative reading material right there!!  Grin

Sadly I've never delved deeply into the different forms and never had any practice or training apart from 15 years of LARP-fighting. Never found a school in my country (Holland) that teaches Lightsaber combat either. That, and I suck at doing kata (which showed during my brief period of Karate and Ninjitsu training) Sad

But I guess that I could always create a mock-saber out of wood or PVC (or use my LARPsaber) and look for similarities in my combat stance and routines. Maybe I've even adapted certain rudimentary elements from one of the 7 Forms on a subconcious level already; who knows!  Smiley
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Master Uilos
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 12:19:38 PM »

I would have to disagree a bit on the staff "not" being used for thrusting--most certainly it could be used as such.  Granted, the way the "double lightsaber staff" was designed when they made Episode I... it's not exactly the "true" kind of staff most martial artists are used to... but you could certainly make thrusting actions with it.

As it is... I have plans to show that (at least in Caine and my system of NCSCS) the staff or dual sabers can be used for Forms I & II, and probably even III & IV.

Later on, there will be a staff form (it has been planned since the start), along with a dual saber form (it has been planned from the start).  Again, these come from a more combative perspective where they actually MATCH UP to a defense form, so that you know:

* What action is meant to be an attack
* What action is meant to be a defense
* What specific targets are being addressed
* What action (if any) is meant to be a saberspin
* Etc.

Personally, I've found that a lot of forms out there end up just being "movements in the air", sort of losing the core purpose of what forms were all about in martial arts.  It's another reason I chose to have them "pair up", so that the feeling of 1 & 0... light & dark... up & down... give & take... is there.  In my eyes... a lightsaber "form" without a countering form--is somewhat useless.  My opinion.

I guess with the exception of "saberspin" forms, where... it's just for glitz + finger/wrist manipulation/strengthening.  Smiley


Agreed with most said, and a few points. Shii Cho, as done by General Sun, works on it's own because it works if you imagine it as a straight line through a line of enemies. It was a mook-killer, a bulldozer meant to go through a straight line. The other forms kinda feel...a little flat. I tried working on a Djem So form that uses the principles Jiu-Jitsu and Tonfa deflections, but it felt flat. Then I added a second person to the mix (which is how Jiu Jitsu is really demonstrated, dammit), who helps add context and responce to the form.

As for the saberspin. We found a reason! In the movie, Anakin is actually blocking behind his back and side. However, that does not negate the "Lightsaber Rave" seen when they just stop and flourish without actually doing anything. There is alot of derision in the obi-ani saberspin, I tend to disregard anything that uses it that's not a solo demonstration of bladework, and there are a few who do more than that. If there is a purpose for it other than "Look how flashy this is!" then I'll bite.

I come from the "make me believe it," school of show
,
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