Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse

[DravvenSol]

Uilos,

Awesome! Thanks for all the insight. Wow, Nick has read your discourse. Excellent!

Independent of combat. Cool, I figured it was something like that. Thanks for clearing it up though.

 Yes, General Sun is - in my opinion - synonymous with Shii Cho. Of all the NYJedi videos on YouTube, his art sets the standard for that form.

Have you posted your Djem So form? Would enjoy seeing it.

wow, two months silent and suddenly boom!

to answer some questions

- The difference between Niman, personal styles and "accidental Niman" is intent and mindset. As I say in the paper, Shii Cho and Niman have a lot in common. Both cover, in essence, other Forms. But Niman has the benefit of having the principles of the five forms before it, while Shii Cho has only the one. It's simplicity and the return to simplicity, the circle is complete.

- This makes me come off as a dick, but Nick Gillard has read this paper, and he confirmed what I wrote in the conclusion of the paper: The Forms were developed independantly of the combat. The writers took what they saw and created a Form out of it, elaborating a lot of the description. So do not use the movies as your main source of information. Use the Canon written information, supplement with what you can find here, and then match what you've made to the movies. If you build a Djem So Form, it works as a form on it's own

- Niman is the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and Tai Chi. Take all the principles of the Forms before it, but it's use is one of meditation and discipline. Tai Chi can be used for combat, but it's properties as a meditative form are what make it distinct (like Niman's description). Again, this goes into how what seperates Niman with personal styles and combinations.

- People do try to make Form Manuals, tutorials, and the Forms themselves. Only one in my mind really is considered Canon (as much as a non-sanctioned group can get) and that's Shii Cho as developed by Damon Honeycutt, aka General Sun. He was one of the original Masters and instructors in NY Jedi, and one of the first to go "I'm making a version of Shii Cho, hope you like it." He then created a form that is precisely as it is described, and it works. I have a Djem So form, and even I don't put it in this high of a regard.

- The Forms are symbols of combat. They represent mindsets and attitudes of the Jedi who hold them, as the Jedi and Sith are symbols of how power is used in the Galaxy. I once referred to it as "Jungian Martial Arts," because we can all wrap our minds around the concepts, but how it comes out is unique to every person.

Glad you all enjoyed, any questions or comments are again welcome

[Master Uilos]

There are a couple of versions of it up on Youtube. the first one you find is the first one I made, and not the best. I'm still working on the mechanics and debating a personal overhaul of the whole thing.

[DravvenSol]

Agreed. Each form is more of a philosophy then, aspects of the mind that govern/influence how one functions in combat.

I think this is one of those things that gets debated quite a bit.  Artorius and I feel the forms are more of a philosophy than a specific set of moves, but I can see how you could argue that certain forms might have certain techniques attached to them.

[Master Uilos]

Agreed, it's philosophy, symbology. I've come to call them "Jungian Martial Arts" because they are the crystallized ideal of a martial art, and Star Wars was always one to use Archetypes

[Master Nero Attoru]

Uilos,

Awesome! Thanks for all the insight. Wow, Nick has read your discourse. Excellent!

Independent of combat. Cool, I figured it was something like that. Thanks for clearing it up though.

 Yes, General Sun is - in my opinion - synonymous with Shii Cho. Of all the NYJedi videos on YouTube, his art sets the standard for that form.

Have you posted your Djem So form? Would enjoy seeing it.

As would I!  I know it's a bit much to ask people to post videos of themselves, but we always welcome visual examples of people's interpretations of these Forms.  IMO that's what's so cool about the concepts of the seven forms - the way people take their real-life experience and use it to build around the SW version of the style.  I'm especially interested in Djem So, as that is one of my favorites (apart from Makashi, which is my go-to form generally).

[youngkp]

Hello, i have mastered forms 1,2,4,and 5 of lightsaber combat. 

[ThreadJack]

Hello, i have mastered forms 1,2,4,and 5 of lightsaber combat. 

Good for you. The smilies are not a toy.

[Master Uilos]

That's terrific. But how do you define being a "master"?

As for the Djem So video, I have several take of it on youtube, with the first attempt being the most seen. I'm not thrilled with it, it's still too much like Shii Cho for my tastes. I wrote the paper based on what I had learned personally from working on it. I'm also taking instructions from a friend of mine who teaches broadsword combat to better understand the principles better.

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

Good for you. The smilies are not a toy.

This reply warrants a point TJ.

[Duff Man]

Good for you. The smilies are not a toy.

I also agree, and "lol" is not a punctuation mark.      As for the forms, I am an avid practitioner of Form ZERO http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_%22Zero%22.  This is probably my favorite example of this form.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow</a>

     
I train to fight so I do not have to.

[Master Uilos]

I also agree, and "lol" is not a punctuation mark.      As for the forms, I am an avid practitioner of Form ZERO http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_%22Zero%22.  This is probably my favorite example of this form. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow#     
I train to fight so I do not have to.

Someone once answered what Form Bruce Lee would have been a Master of. I answered "yes".

Bruce Lee did not die, he had just gone beyond the need to fight in the physical realms

[DravvenSol]

Agreed.

Ok, so mental aspects are the driving elements that separate the forms and thus how a saber is operated in a given duel...of the fates.

(Sorry about that. I pun shamelessly. Be advised. Or warned.)

And these philosophies, while written, are largely in development. And therefore...debatable? Open to discussion/revision/elaboration?

For instance, I see Shien as its own form. I understand its aggressive nature links it with Djem So, but it is also separated from Djem So's emphasis on brute strength and imposing natural stature. Performed at range, Shien does not - as I see it - require its user to be physically big or strong, so it becomes available to a larger demographic of students than Djem So.

Someone once answered what Form Bruce Lee would have been a Master of. I answered "yes".

Bruce Lee did not die, he had just gone beyond the need to fight in the physical realms

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

"Being a warrior isn't all about just swinging a sword, he tells him, "It's finding good reason to draw your sword in the first place." - Zeus, Immortals.

It just sounded like something Master Lee would say.

[Master Uilos]

Agreed.

Ok, so mental aspects are the driving elements that separate the forms and thus how a saber is operated in a given duel...of the fates.

(Sorry about that. I pun shamelessly. Be advised. Or warned.)

And these philosophies, while written, are largely in development. And therefore...debatable? Open to discussion/revision/elaboration?

For instance, I see Shien as its own form. I understand its aggressive nature links it with Djem So, but it is also separated from Djem So's emphasis on brute strength and imposing natural stature. Performed at range, Shien does not - as I see it - require its user to be physically big or strong, so it becomes available to a larger demographic of students than Djem So.

We are in agreement then. Shien and Djem So are joined by Theme: Returning the opponents Attack. Shien focuses on groups and returning ranged blaster attacks while Djem So is a Form meant for dueling using one's own power (whether physical or Force assisted). So they are the same kind of Form, but their applications vary. Shien relies on Grace and Speed, while Djem So relies on Strength and Force.

[Jammo]

I read somewhere that sword work is like a cart with two wheels. One wheel is your physical skill and the other is the mental and spiritual aspect of the duel. If either is out of balance, your cart tips over. I thought that pretty smart.