The Spin Zone: Demos/performances

[Master Venturous]

It certainly is good cardio, especially when it's hot outside. It looks like you have a single saber down pretty well and are getting pretty proficient with dual sabers. The only thing I would suggest is practicing the dual sabers a little slower and work on smoothing out the transitions. It looked like you were trying to go too fast with the moves before you were ready to, but practicing those things slower helps develop the speed. It also looked and sounded like you were using heavy grade blades, which can make things a bit more awkward, but even better for cardio. Now all you have to do is get you a saberstaff and you'll be golden.

[EchoEternal]

Thanks! I haven't practiced the dual spinning much at all, I didn't realize I could do it until just tonight. That's why I shared it, so I could yell thank you at the internet. Practicing with both hands gave me the muscle memory. There will be much practicing after the rejoicing period, heh. They're also mid-grade blades, rather than heavy. I didn't think I'd be super rough on them so I just went with the standard.


I have the coupler for my initiate v4s, but the staff is MASSIVE put together. Because one of my initiates has sound, I use the vented coupler which is 3 extra inches, both of my blades are the 32" and I'm five foot two. So...Saberstaff is very, very difficult. It's almost two feet taller than me. I also have a 36" blade on my Archon, and even standing on tiptoes when the thing comes behind my back I'm lucky not to hit the ground and then myself. Short people problems. XD I keep thinking I'm gonna buy the shorter blades this fall, but then I think i'm going to use my play money to buy a Catalyst instead. It looks like it would be way less rough on my hand than my Archon is with the smooth grip. But some of you mentioned using the v3/2 initiates, and now I'm wondering about those.

The weight of the bottom of the Archon makes spinning way easier, and because it's so heavy, going back to the initiates means I'm spinning so much faster and more cleanly. It's my favorite for practice. However, the choke on it is awful. I mean, it's great for the holding and the weight and all (and looks awesome), but the ridges beat my hands up. I taped it with cloth tape today, but now it looks stupid and I am aesthetically displeased. Maybe I'll change my mind once I actually use it this way and my hands aren't all sore.

Do your sabers cause any of these problems? How are the grips? I've been meaning to ask the other spinners out there what issues and solutions they have had. My questions about which models you were using were already answered. I did wonder if the flat smoothness of the earlier versions of initiates were better for spinning, and you guys seem to be pretty happy with them. Do they slip through your hands at all?

Inzane asked a question earlier in the thread about the v4 initiates--if you're still around--the standard v4s are pretty great  (I have messed around with them), but I don't recommend getting the emitter windows like I did if you want to spin a lot. A little, it's fine, and the windows make it look super cool. Unfortunately, the most comfortable choke point, at least for me, is right on top of them.

[Master Venturous]

Initiates definitely make spinning a lot easier and a lot faster in my experience. Especially if you use initiate blades as well, but those aren't for everyone. As for the smoothness problem with the grips, I too had issues with that when I first got my dark standard issue staff with the vertical grooves. They cut my hand up pretty quickly. The way I got around that was to just wear some gloves while practicing until I got to the point where I could do the spins without the hilt hitting my hands in the same spots, so I learned to spin it without having that issue again. That would be my recommendation if you don't want to change the aesthetics of the saber itself. The best way to avoid such injuries though is to practice the moves slow enough so you aren't injuring yourself, then gradually add speed to the moves. You should in turn develop the coordination for the move without it injuring you.

[Darth Cephalus]

Thanks! I haven't practiced the dual spinning much at all, I didn't realize I could do it until just tonight. That's why I shared it, so I could yell thank you at the internet.

Glad you got it. In my experience, that double Obi/Ani was the major hurdle. With that and the flowers, the rest is basically just variation. As Veturous said though, take it slow. Don't get too into the body spins yet. Learn the flower and the obi/ani, how to move from one to the other and back, and how to change direction. With one the blades are going in the same direction, with the other, they only appear to be.

I keep thinking I'm gonna buy the shorter blades this fall, but then I think i'm going to use my play money to buy a Catalyst instead. It looks like it would be way less rough on my hand than my Archon is with the smooth grip.

I would go for the blades and a different emitter instead. Get a couple grab bag blades and cut them down if you want to save on cost. Put a warglaive emitter without the claws, a catalyst choke, or a choke from one of the other guys and any low profile emitter on your Archon and you will find it to be a very nice spinning saber. When I am not using my initiates, that is what I use actually.

Do your sabers cause any of these problems? How are the grips? I've been meaning to ask the other spinners out there what issues and solutions they have had.

The V3 initiates are actually not flat; they have two choke points, the higher of which is where I grip mine for spinning. If you have a saber you like though that is not easy on the hand, there are a few solutions. Leather wraps or padded tennis grip work well, as does electrical tape. Duck tape makes some patterned products that work as well. My personal favorite though is silicon tape. The best way to get it is look for duck brand self fusing fix it tape. It is roughly the same thing you get from a juggling shop for half the money. The best way though is to just save the fancy stuff for a saber fit for it. Any MHS saber will work if you swap in the right emitter or emitter/choke combo.

As to your spinning, it is looking good. Keep at it and don't do anything to mess up your hands or shoulders, and you will be pulling off the more complex moves in no time. Can't stress the shorter blade thing enough though. I see you having to hold your shoulders up in those dual wield spins to keep from hitting the ground. Ge the move down with shorter blades where you don't need to compensate, then you can make the adjustment when you switch to longer blades a lot better.

[Inzane]

Inzane asked a question earlier in the thread about the v4 initiates--if you're still around--the standard v4s are pretty great  (I have messed around with them), but I don't recommend getting the emitter windows like I did if you want to spin a lot. A little, it's fine, and the windows make it look super cool. Unfortunately, the most comfortable choke point, at least for me, is right on top of them.

I'm still here. 

That must've been a while ago.  I've since gotten a v4 Dominix which has a similar profile to the v4 initiate. 
I think overall the Aeon v3 and my initiate v3s are very ideal for spinning.  They just feel so natural in hand.

My Dominix is easy to spin too, and like you with your initiate noticed the sweet spot for balance of a v4 Dominix w/ 32" blade seems to be right over the windows.   It doesn't bother my hands at all.  But I wonder if using that as the pivot point over time will wear the anodized coating off the window edges.  It's probably not an issue for the silver hilts but for Dominix and Dark Initiate v4s it could be.

Btw good job on the videos.   

[EchoEternal]

Master Venturous: I hadn't really thought of just eventually being able to spin without hurting my hand, that's a heartening realization. I think my initiate emitter window bothered my hand at first too but it doesn't now, so I must have gotten used to it.  You're right on the body spins, I am definitely not ready for those with dual wielding yet, I'll have to work up to it.

Darth Cephalus--I think it'll end up having been my biggest hurdle as well, once I started doing that spin, I realized I was at least capable of learning dual spinning, where I didn't think I was before. I'll definitely take the advice and work on getting the spins before moving around too much elsewhere. I am so gung-ho about new shiny lightsabers that it didn't really occur to me to purchase just the choke/emitter, that is a fantastic idea and what I think I will do. I absolutely love the Archon's weight.  Yeah, that experiment dual spinning was what sold me on needing shorter blades. It was very difficult to keep them from hitting the ground (which is why to improve at staff I'll have to have shorter blades, since two feet is too difficult to compensate for, as I have to spin at face level). And yes, good advice from both of you on the spinning. I'll have to go over a few of both of your demos again to work on smoothing out some of those spins and figuring out how to transition well.

Inzane--Yeah, it was a long time ago, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to answer anyway. The emitter windows don't bother my hands anymore, but I found myself wishing I hadn't got them because it looks silly on camera when I'm doing choreography or spinning when I can see me holding the window. Not a big deal, as I am very pleased with them overall. To answer about the anodizing, I just examined my sabers (I have the v4 Dark Initiate LEs), and there are a couple tiny silver spots on the very edges of the windows, but they are so small I hadn't noticed them before, and I've spent a few hours a week spinning since April.

Thanks for all the helpful advice! I may be able to get my aesthetic dream saber sooner saving money on a spinning saber.

[Master Venturous]

Wanted to cover a move that I included in my Saber Shadows video and breakdown how to do it. Something to add to your repertoire to help with movement.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0rrisS_o7A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0rrisS_o7A</a>

[Dauntless Seven]

Thanks.  Point.   

[DARTH CH3M15T]

Awesome tutorial Master Venturous. You can also use the backward plumb flower to turn your body around the other direction. I also think theres away to turn around the other way than you were in the tutial (using forward plumb). sort of against the spin but it breaks up the plumb flower slightly into somthing else. This helps in dual wielding into the staggered plumb flowers while spinning.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB-PwGDpzf4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB-PwGDpzf4</a>

[Master Venturous]

It looks like the move you're doing there is a slight variation of the plumb flower, but it looks cool regardless. I was wondering if it was possible to do it with two sabers and it looks like what you are doing comes as close as possible to that.

[DARTH CH3M15T]

just my latest footage from a few weeks ago that i go around to chopping together. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz59D2sRRsE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz59D2sRRsE</a>

[EchoEternal]

Venturous: Thanks for the tutorial!
Ch3m1st: Awesome as always, thanks for the example vid.

Here's a recent freeform workout...odd music, but that's what happens when you tell Pandora to give you dance music randomly. XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6cScPAMHWU

[DARTH CH3M15T]

You're welcom EchoEternal. I rarely post any tutorials or that much advice on here. i mainly use these forums to satisfy my own ego or to try and get one up on the other spinning masters  . But sometimes i have my moments and can be useful i suppose. Working on my next tutorials soon. Where i actually demonstrate moves. I'll be focusing on the flowers / windmills and their variations tips that helped me and all the other moves they tie into, so watch this space for that.

Until then i was brushing up on my single saber work too. I've come to a bit of a wall with learning new tricks so i've decided to get better at all the ones i know. resorting to melding two moves together.. Within all the free form and rand tricks, i was practicing the ..... errrm. its like a blade barrier but instead of sending the blade around my body i'm spinning around so it looks like the blade is continually spinning in that locations (forgot what its called now). I added in the aerial hand switch instead of the pass to try and spice it up a bit.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSvIS19SRY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSvIS19SRY</a>

[Darth Cephalus]

Awesome tutorial Master Venturous. You can also use the backward plumb flower to turn your body around the other direction. I also think theres away to turn around the other way than you were in the tutial (using forward plumb). sort of against the spin but it breaks up the plumb flower slightly into something else. This helps in dual wielding into the staggered plumb flowers while spinning.

The first way I found to spin in dual wield plumbs was the opposite way. The trick is to turn on the low beat towards the reverse obi/ani, eclipse, whatever we are calling it these days, spin. After I saw your video CH3M15T, I tried your tactic of turning on the overhead beat and it is a bit easier: no chance of clipping your leg, which is nice. The spin is faster though so I found that practicing it was a good recipe for vertigo. I will have to give it more time later when I have the time to spare. You can actually turn either way with an obi/ani or reverse, one direction you go with the transition and let it carry you across, the other, you throw the obi/ani and turn after it. I like that all of us seem to be moving our bodies a lot more these days. To me that seems to indicate that we are getting comfortable enough with our spinning to start to move around and with it. Leads to a lot more sophisticated routines,  even if it does make those routines harder to film without moving out of frame.

[Darth Cephalus]

So I have a few new ones. The first is quad wield (double staffs). Here I am trying to prove that despite the lore, you don't need four arms to do this.  This is my first attempt at double staff. These are full length saberstaffs. This is hard to get time to try as it takes two staffs and a lot more room than I usually have to work with.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQwgOFgFirs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQwgOFgFirs</a>

The next is fire sword. This was my first go around with a fire contact sword while it was lit. I got brave enough to try a bit of contact towards the end of the routine. I lost a bit of arm hair but it otherwise went off OK.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oey7J6h7YIA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">www.youtube.com/watch?v=oey7J6h7YIA</a>

The final is dual wield fire sword. I was feeling lucky so I tried this the same night. First attempt at this too obviously. You will notice I have at least two people with wet towels behind me in case I catch on fire. Thankfully, I did not need them. These things are a lot heavier than my normal sabers and the fire creates a lot of drag, but I think it went well.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eTrTozoOtA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eTrTozoOtA</a>