Sith Academy: Korriban

[Illyiss]

Joking and distaste of all the various use of "grey Jedi/Sith" so prevalent elsewhere to say "I am a Jedi that can do dark stuff, but I'm still of the light, durp";  the concept is far more fitting, speaking of "grey Sith" as Logos describes it, for most people I know, especially who claim to be Sith, dark Jedi, or the like, than most realize.  It's very hard to not have at least a core of wanting/trying to advance one's own interests, desires, needs first, to give into ad use emotions and emotional states more often than not, and to at least while in the heat of the emotion, wish ill of those who wrong us, even if only in perception.

I could see where it's applying the concepts of self mastery of the Sith, and the concepts of domination and conquest, but toning it down to a very straight forward drive to master one's environment, to forge one's life to the image they will it to be.  Which is a perspective that our culture outwardly nay says, but yet it propogates as what is needed to survive and especially succeed.

[Karmack]

Just found this thread, can't believe I missed it...

Logos, the idea of "Gray Sith" is intriguing.  I'm seriously considering trying to figure out some way of referring to force-users who are not followers of the Jedi or Sith religions/codes.  I am thinking as an example of the different martial traditions.  Compare, for example, the concept of the Chivalric Knight to, say, the Samurai.  Both are warrior traditions based on honor and service and the protection of those in your charge.  And they are very, very different.

A Knight who meets a Samurai in battle might think the Samurai evil, particularly when he killed wounded enemies or "assisted" the losing general in performing ritual suicide.  While the Samurai would see the Knight as evil because they deny an honorable death to their enemies, keeping them alive to live on in perpetual shame...

And in between who knows how many warrior traditions.  :-) 

Force users could be similar.  But how would you handle a warrior-sect of force users, maybe even wielding lightsabers, who did NOT adhere to either Jedi or Sith code?  And what do you call them?

In our story universe we're building in the fan fiction board we tend to call light-siders who are not formal Jedi "Gray".  Mainly because they don't hold to the emotional restrictions of the Jedi order.  The ones that I've created, whom I call the Mak'Tor, are more of a religious sect.  They have a strict code of right and wrong that they believe was given to them by the Maker Himself, and they follow that.  Think Old Testament Judaism and you'd be close to my concept, just without the animal sacrifice aspect.  :-)

But other groups are based on other things.

So why not Gray Sith, too? 

[Darth Logos]

Just found this thread, can't believe I missed it...

Logos, the idea of "Gray Sith" is intriguing.  I'm seriously considering trying to figure out some way of referring to force-users who are not followers of the Jedi or Sith religions/codes.  I am thinking as an example of the different martial traditions.  Compare, for example, the concept of the Chivalric Knight to, say, the Samurai.  Both are warrior traditions based on honor and service and the protection of those in your charge.  And they are very, very different.

A Knight who meets a Samurai in battle might think the Samurai evil, particularly when he killed wounded enemies or "assisted" the losing general in performing ritual suicide.  While the Samurai would see the Knight as evil because they deny an honorable death to their enemies, keeping them alive to live on in perpetual shame...

And in between who knows how many warrior traditions.  :-) 

Exactly. It's something I started conceiving of trying to understand Sith culture. Do the Sith appreciate fine art or scenic landscapes. Do they have any concept of morality or do they simply live by the ideal of "take what you can"?

Force users could be similar.  But how would you handle a warrior-sect of force users, maybe even wielding lightsabers, who did NOT adhere to either Jedi or Sith code?  And what do you call them?

You call them Force sensitives/adepts/wielders. Those are what I've come across in my literary travels.

In our story universe we're building in the fan fiction board we tend to call light-siders who are not formal Jedi "Gray".  Mainly because they don't hold to the emotional restrictions of the Jedi order.  The ones that I've created, whom I call the Mak'Tor, are more of a religious sect.  They have a strict code of right and wrong that they believe was given to them by the Maker Himself, and they follow that.  Think Old Testament Judaism and you'd be close to my concept, just without the animal sacrifice aspect.  :-)

You might be on the fringe of plagiarizing:

http://galaxyquest.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Lazarus
http://ratchetandclank.wikia.com/wiki/Maktar_Resort

So why not Gray Sith, too? 

Why not? If there are Jedi who fall away from "the path" why not Sith? Even though, what I have planned with this concept, a Grey Sith is still far more dangerous than a Dark Jedi.

However, according to the Book of Sith, the Sith species was not the origination of the Order we know today. It was actually the Dark(fallen) Jedi that were exiled after the first Great Schism. When they discovered Korriban (I believe) they quickly used their mastery of the Force to conquer the Sith, making them Lords of the Sith. Hence where the modern formal title descends.

[Taegin Roan]

I agree, I have often though of what a "Light Sith" rather than a "Dark Jedi" would look like, and the same goes with the "Gray Sith". I really think the best example I can give would be the Mortis gods. They are Force Wielders, and have no allegiance. While not truly gods, they are extremely powerful beings. One who uses the Dark Side of the Force (The Son), one who uses the Light Side of the Force (The Daughter), and one who sits somewhere in the middle (The Father). Even though they wield a certain "side" of the Force, they are not, nor do they consider to be anything close to, a Jedi or a Sith. Another lesser example is the Bendu. Bendu is not afraid of the Dark Side, but nor will he align himself with it. in his own words "I'm the one in the middle".

You might be on the fringe of plagiarizing:

It is only plagiarism if the creator specifically took it from those things. I know for a fact that Karm did not. He probably didn't even realize those things existed. Plus, different universes.

[Darth Logos]

I agree, I have often though of what a "Light Sith" rather than a "Dark Jedi" would look like, and the same goes with the "Gray Sith". I really think the best example I can give would be the Mortis gods. They are Force Wielders, and have no allegiance. While not truly gods, they are extremely powerful beings. One who uses the Dark Side of the Force (The Son), one who uses the Light Side of the Force (The Daughter), and one who sits somewhere in the middle (The Father). Even though they wield a certain "side" of the Force, they are not, nor do they consider to be anything close to, a Jedi or a Sith. Another lesser example is the Bendu. Bendu is not afraid of the Dark Side, but nor will he align himself with it. in his own words "I'm the one in the middle".

UGH! I will continue to view the Mortis arc as an intricate Force vision. It's the only way I can keep from hating it. Father, Son, and Daughter were merely representations. Best indication of this is that Son, although thoroughly diametrically opposed to his sister, did not hate her. In fact, he loved her, and mourned her death.

It is only plagiarism if the creator specifically took it from those things. I know for a fact that Karm did not. He probably didn't even realize those things existed. Plus, different universes.

Read, boy. I said "fringe". Karm spells his order with an O.

[Taegin Roan]

UGH! I will continue to view the Mortis arc as an intricate Force vision. It's the only way I can keep from hating it. Father, Son, and Daughter were merely representations. Best indication of this is that Son, although thoroughly diametrically opposed to his sister, did not hate her. In fact, he loved her, and mourned her death.

I never said anyone had to like it, just that it was a good example.

Read, boy. I said "fringe". Karm spells his order with an O.

I never said that you did say anything other than "fringe". I was just pointing out why it is not.

[Illyiss]

Light Sith would be Jedi.  Wasn't there a Sith Lord who tried blending light in with the Sith ways, in with the dark side, and it failed, miserably?

[Gar-Wi Musan]

 Well after the last 24 hours, plus 39 miserable years on this planet, I pledge myself to the Dark Side! Its interesting that I came here and was drawn to learn more about the ways of The Sith rather than the equivalent thread on the jedi.
 Thank you Master Logos. I do not seek power, nor to rule. I just seek my own happiness before all others. I can't help other people be happy or at peace if I am not. Most human beings are mentally unstable at best. I seek my own personal balance first and foremost. I will always help people with less than I have when I can. But not at my own expense. I will be no ones pupil but my own. I will serve nothing but what I feel because I understand my emotions and that they are real, and I know I am right.
This thread has been more than interesting, It has become life defining for me. Now i just wish I could make my damned blue saber red!

Fallen Jedi Gar-Wi-Musan
AKA Lord Musan Grawlix 

[Gar-Wi Musan]

Well after the last 24 hours, plus 39 miserable years on this planet, I pledge myself to the Dark Side! Its interesting that I came here and was drawn to learn more about the ways of The Sith rather than the equivalent thread on the jedi.
 Thank you Master Logos. I do not seek power, nor to rule. I just seek my own happiness before all others. I can't help other people be happy or at peace if I am not. Most human beings are mentally unstable at best. I seek my own personal balance first and foremost. I will always help people with less than I have when I can. But not at my own expense. I will be no ones pupil but my own. I will serve nothing but what I feel because I understand my emotions and that they are real, and I know I am right.
This thread has been more than interesting, It has become life defining for me. Now i just wish I could make my damned blue saber red!

Fallen Jedi Gar-Wi-Musan
AKA Lord Musan Grawlix 

Just to be sure, I am fairly drunk right now. I have chronic nerve and joint pain I have been trying to deal with for the last 25 years, and training 3 hours a day with my new saber has me in so much pain (despite the incredible gains), I have not slept for three days. That is why I am drinking. If i change my mind about this later, well I'm an idiot. But I'm fairly certain this is the truth. If I haven't said otherwise 24 hours from now, It is what it is. Not so sure about pledging myself to the Dark Side, That might be too much. For now I pledge my self to myself.

[Gar-Wi Musan]

 Just to be sure, I am fairly drunk right now. I have chronic nerve and joint pain I have been trying to deal with for the last 25 years, and training 3 hours a day with my new saber has me in so much pain (despite the incredible gains), I have not slept for three days. That is why I am drinking. If i change my mind about this later, well I'm an idiot. But I'm fairly certain this is the truth. If I haven't said otherwise 24 hours from now, It is what it is. Not so sure about pledging myself to the Dark Side, That might be too much. For now I pledge my self to myself.

Thanks for listening.

[Gar-Wi Musan]

 Sorry about the triple post.

[Master Seblaise]

I join the discussion lately but it is a very interesting one

To me, Siths (as a group who has his own civilisation, philosophy, arts ...) are very similar to the Michael Moorcock’s Melnibonéans. I do not know if Lucas and Moorcock know each other but there are a lot of similarity.

Moorcock describes his Melnbonéans as powerful knights and sorcerers who use their power for their pleasure and they enslave/corrupt other kingdoms ...

[Illyiss]

I join the discussion lately but it is a very interesting one

To me, Siths (as a group who has his own civilisation, philosophy, arts ...) are very similar to the Michael Moorcock’s Melnibonéans. I do not know if Lucas and Moorcock know each other but there are a lot of similarity.

Moorcock describes his Melnbonéans as powerful knights and sorcerers who use their power for their pleasure and they enslave/corrupt other kingdoms ...

I would not be surprised if the Elric saga wasn't at least an influence on Lucas.

[Master Seblaise]

I would not be surprised if the Elric saga wasn't at least an influence on Lucas.

Yes ... and considering Elric himself, i saw a clear influence on the Darth Bane character ...

[Darth Logos]

I never said anyone had to like it, just that it was a good example.

I just had a thought on this. Son and Daughter represent a parallel to the Freudian constructs of the Id (Son) and the Superego (Daughter). One represents raw emotion and desire, and looks only upon itself. The other represents control, and learned behaviors accepted as good by "civilized society". The individual Ego (Father) makes the conscious decision of how to regulate and balance each within themselves.

The death of Father represented Anakin's impending crisis of faith, and offered up a glimpse of the consequences of his choice. But it also showed the consequence of favoring one side over balance. By dogmatically favoring Daughter over Son, the Jedi sought the weapon that could end Son's influence. But by retrieving it, allowed Son access to the weapon that could free him of Father's ruling influence over both, and ultimately destroying everything that opposed him. In similar fashion, it is believed by some that Bane's reduction of the Sith to 2 tipped the balance of the Force so far to the "light" that the impending decimation of the Jedi was inevitable in order to properly bring balance to the Force.