Sith Academy: Korriban

[Darth Justicar]

Regarding Darth Bane...bear in mind before I answer that I approach things from a perspective that could be described as an unconventional Sith, so my answer probably manages to not represent the majority of the Sith Order AND still run counter to anything the Jedi would advocate.

On one hand, from a pragmatic standpoint I can see where Darth Bane was going with the Rule of Two, and yes, it did stop the infighting sufficiently to allow for a kind of long-range planning that prior to that point had not been possible for the Sith Order.

On the other, I think that Bane's actions destroyed the useful side of Sith independence, creating a rigidity of thought that now equaled that of the Jedi.  The Sith code notes that through victory one's chains should be broken and that the Force should set one free.  The degree of ideological conformity created by bringing the entire Sith Order down to the relationship between two individuals alone (which I have to figure is extremely stifling to say the least) in my mind abrogates that part of the code.

As some of you might have noticed from another thread or two, I would have considered the failed reforms of Darth Imperius (SWTOR Inquisitor storyline, non-canon "light side" version of Darth Nox) a solution more in keeping with the Sith Code.  It was individual agency that allowed Imperius (AND Bane!) to think outside the box and identify what was wrong with the Sith Order and attempt their solutions to varying degrees of success.  We have to assume that in the timeline where Imperius existed that his solution of trying to rein in Sith excesses and institute a more pragmatic version of the Order that does not...well, brutalize for the lulz, or ignore the usefulness of establishing a bit of actual trustworthiness, and takes its mission as Empire defense rather than totally one of personal power.  

(This by NO means indicates being like the Jedi, and it's even more striking when you watch these cutscenes that enmity would likely always remain on grounds that the Jedi will not accept any use of the dark side or any harsher tactics ever, nor be willing to accept the Sith philosophy allowing the full range of sentient experience...there are even clear instances seen in an LS V run with the Inquisitor of Jedi knee-jerk reacting to the Inquisitor even when they have already detected evidence that there is something different, and he has presented them with a chance to get out of his way.)

Obviously Imperius failed in his timeline, either because he was cut down at some point by a Darth who was more brutal than pragmatic and his followers killed as well, or because anything he did manage to introduce during his lifetime gets undone at the soonest opportunity. (Dialogue with Ashara Zavros suggests to me that this version of Lord Kallig may not have been expecting to live to old age, making me think it would have been the former.)

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Darth Logos]

I agree with your take on Bane, to a point.

With the Rule of Two the concept states "a Master to hold the power, and an apprentice to crave it." Basically, when you become Master, you are then capable of letting your individuality out.

Likewise, in Darth Plagueis, Sidious did what he was instructed to do without question until the moment when he seized power for himself. Then he was able to do things his way.

When Bane dictated that Zannah would master Soresu, it was because years of combat experience told him that her slight frame would not be able to launch an effective assault in saber combat. But being able to put up a nigh impenetrable wall of defense to wear her opponent down would best suit her.

[Vivectius]

When Bane dictated that Zannah would master Soresu, it was because years of combat experience told him that her slight frame would not be able to launch an effective assault in saber combat. But being able to put up a nigh impenetrable wall of defense to wear her opponent down would best suit her.

That and a double bladed Lightsaber, despite what the jedi thought, is ideally suited to the defensive nature of Form III.

[Darth Calon]

I agree with your take on Bane, to a point.

With the Rule of Two the concept states "a Master to hold the power, and an apprentice to crave it." Basically, when you become Master, you are then capable of letting your individuality out.

I believe it goes: "One to embody the power, the other to crave it." I could be wrong though.

[Darth Logos]

I believe it goes: "One to embody the power, the other to crave it." I could be wrong though.

tomāto  tomäto

[Darth Calon]

tomāto  tomäto

Huh?

[Vivectius]

Huh?

Two different ways to say the same thing.

You might not be able to see it, but the fist tomato has a long "A" sound, while the second tomato has an umlaut over the a, changing the pronunciation to "ah."  Toe-may-toe vs. toe-mah-toe.

[Darth Logos]

Two different ways to say the same thing.

You might not be able to see it, but the fist tomato has a long "A" sound, while the second tomato has an umlaut over the a, changing the pronunciation to "ah."  Toe-may-toe vs. toe-mah-toe.

points. Exactly that.

@ Calon,

It's an old expression that means exactly what Viv said.

[Darth Calon]

Two different ways to say the same thing.

You might not be able to see it, but the fist tomato has a long "A" sound, while the second tomato has an umlaut over the a, changing the pronunciation to "ah."  Toe-may-toe vs. toe-mah-toe.

Thank you. It all makes sense now.

points. Exactly that.

@ Calon,

It's an old expression that means exactly what Viv said.

It all means the same, I was merely quoting the " official" saying.   Are you one to use things (for lack of better word) that people don't understand, or have I just not heard of them 'cause of my young age? (does that make sense?)

[Vivectius]

Thank you. It all makes sense now.

It all means the same, I was merely quoting the " official" saying.   Are you one to use things (for lack of better word) that people don't understand, or have I just not heard of them 'cause of my young age? (does that make sense?)

For Logos, it's both.  In this case it's probably your young age though. 

[Darth Logos]

For Logos, it's both.  In this case it's probably your young age though. 

It is. The tomato reference is well older than I am.

Anyway, we're getting off course.

[Iram]

*clears throat*
 So....

[Darth Logos]

*clears throat*
 So....

Sorry, dude. This isn't a chat thread. It was designed solely to discuss and distribute knowledge of the Dark Side to those not as well versed in the EU.

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

Why does the Dark Side make its users Fugly? lol

[Darth Logos]

Why does the Dark Side make its users Fugly? lol

Probably for a similar reason that stress and worry can manifest themselves physically in the body. The brain is a very powerful organ, and strong negative emotions take their toll.

However, this is not always the case. I've heard of a Sith technique to negate these disfiguring effects. Supposedly Sidious used it. It's part of the Force Concealment, but when he fried himself with lightning the effects quickly faded, revealing the toll the Dark Side had taken on him.

My personal theory, based on more empirical evidence throughout the EU, is that DS users have a tendency to be more confrontational, and therefore take more asswhoopins.
Zannah remained a hottie. Talon was left unscathed, but I think that was nerd-boys being nerd-boys. Malgus was pretty handsome (outside the grey skin) until he tried to stop a missile with his face, and then had a thermal detonator go off by his head, and then got Force slammed so hard into a mountain it left a hole.

According to what I've read in Revan, older members of the Sith Order do show the "fugly" effects of the Dark Side. Darth Nyriss was supposed to have shown these ravages to such a degree that even her smile made Lord Scourge want to cringe. (Yikes)