Sith Academy: Korriban

[Darth Logos]

Going back to the whole "bleeding crystal" thing, there was a comic that showed when Darth Vader bled the crystal that went into his lightsaber shortly after his fall to the Dark Side.  Won't spoil it, but it's an interesting story.

But then they go on to reveal that obsidian...the material that most of Vader's castle is made of...can be used to produce a blade. (A black crystal produces a red blade no less.) But we still have to show that the Sith are big mean bad guys....so crystal bleeding. Grrr.

And people wonder why I think the Disney canon is such garbage.

[Darth Tepes]

But then they go on to reveal that obsidian...the material that most of Vader's castle is made of...can be used to produce a blade. (A black crystal produces a red blade no less.) But we still have to show that the Sith are big mean bad guys....so crystal bleeding. Grrr.

And people wonder why I think the Disney canon is such garbage.

Well to be fair at the point they show this its mere days after EP III.  He hasn't gone back to Mustafar yet.

[DOA40]

Well to be fair at the point they show this its mere days after EP III.  He hasn't gone back to Mustafar yet.

That was something I couldn't understand or maybe my brain just doesn't want to comprehend it.

I mean, why would you build a castle on the very place that you not only suffered a defeat at the hands of your mentor/brother, you were mutilated and horribly burned as well?  I mean, if it had been me, I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near that place.  Unless this is one of those Sith things of, "If I live or whatever it is I do in the very place where all this stuff happened to me, I will be constantly reminded of it and it will keep me angry and more Sithy."

[Darth Logos]

Something about Sidious keeping him chained to his pain to strengthen him in the dark side. Blah blah blah. Big mean bad guys do mean things. Not like it'd be the first time KK's regime was painfully stereotypical.

[DarthRondoudou]

That was something I couldn't understand or maybe my brain just doesn't want to comprehend it.

I mean, why would you build a castle on the very place that you not only suffered a defeat at the hands of your mentor/brother, you were mutilated and horribly burned as well?  I mean, if it had been me, I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near that place.  Unless this is one of those Sith things of, "If I live or whatever it is I do in the very place where all this stuff happened to me, I will be constantly reminded of it and it will keep me angry and more Sithy."

I think it's exactly for the reason you stated x)
It's a reminder of his weakness, and the pain and rage and anger from that defeat are supposed to make him stronger =)

[Darth Tepes]

Point of fact...there is a whole Arc in the comics that explains why his castle is on Mustafar.
*Spoilers For the Comics *

Palpatine decided to give Vader a planet to rule of his own.  He offered him Naboo (really as a jab) but Vader chose Mustafar...as he associated it with his true turn to the Dark Side.  So Palpatine sent Imperial architects as well as a gift...the Mask of Darth Momin...a Sith from the Old Republic.  The Mask actually held the essence of the Sith Lord...who considered himself an artist, and he could take control of anyone who put the helmet on.  He revelead to Vader there actually was an ancient Sith Temple under the Volcano and he could build a structure that would allow them to pierce the veil of time.  So vader allowed Momin to control member of his party to design the temple...it took 7 attempts.  During the ritual Vader became distracted by an uprising my the Locals.....which he dealt with  in his usual fashion.  But it gave Momin time to send his spirit into his body from the past and come forward.  He and Vader fought with Vader winning the Duel....but not easily.
     Vader then sent his spirit into the void looking for Padme...he didn't find her.  So he destroyed the portal.
       

[Darth Logos]

Point of fact...there is a whole Arc in the comics that explains why his castle is on Mustafar.
*Spoilers For the Comics *

Palpatine decided to give Vader a planet to rule of his own.  He offered him Naboo (really as a jab) but Vader chose Mustafar...as he associated it with his true turn to the Dark Side.  So Palpatine sent Imperial architects as well as a gift...the Mask of Darth Momin...a Sith from the Old Republic.  The Mask actually held the essence of the Sith Lord...who considered himself an artist, and he could take control of anyone who put the helmet on.  He revelead to Vader there actually was an ancient Sith Temple under the Volcano and he could build a structure that would allow them to pierce the veil of time.  So vader allowed Momin to control member of his party to design the temple...it took 7 attempts.  During the ritual Vader became distracted by an uprising my the Locals.....which he dealt with  in his usual fashion.  But it gave Momin time to send his spirit into his body from the past and come forward.  He and Vader fought with Vader winning the Duel....but not easily.
     Vader then sent his spirit into the void looking for Padme...he didn't find her.  So he destroyed the portal.

I read some article about the castle being some sort of attempt to bring Padme back, and honestly, I've heard worse.

[Darth Tepes]

I read some article about the castle being some sort of attempt to bring Padme back, and honestly, I've heard worse.

Yep.  Like I've said before...The Vader comics were the shining star in the darkness from all this.

[Darth Logos]

Yep.  Like I've said before...The Vader comics were the shining star in the darkness from all this.

I could give them a read, but comics have never blown my cape. Too often, they are concerned with continued publication instead of telling a believable story. Lot of shark-jumps to generate oohs and ahhs and OMGs.

[Darth Tepes]

I could give them a read, but comics have never blown my cape. Too often, they are concerned with continued publication instead of telling a believable story. Lot of shark-jumps to generate oohs and ahhs and OMGs.

Well that is the name of the game in Comics.  Which is why they always have some kind of "Event" to kind of "Cleanse the Palate".  With the SW comics though they are a bit different since they have to fit into a particular time frame.  The Star Wars and Vader comics for instance began in 2015 to 2019 and covered the gap between ANH and ESB with Vader having a separate Arc taking place after EP III.  Before the Pandemic kind of destroyed the comic industry they had just begun the new stories taking place after ESB.  The Star Wars stories were hit or miss  (more miss) but the Vader comics never disappointed IMO.

[DarthProdigal]

One of the best topics to stumble upon, must be the will of the Force. Great choice to start a dedicated thread... May the Force Serve you well in your quest for a greater understanding of the Dark Side.

[DarthProdigal]

It depends. My stance is that the power, or rather strength, of the Dark Side comes from the emotions one draws from when using it. Anger, Fear, Hatred. These are very strong negative emotions, which might explain why the Dark Side takes such a toll on its followers. Just as stress can manifest itself physically in the body, so too can these emotions reek havoc from being sustained for long periods. There have been cases of people actually "dying of a broken heart." They are emotionally wounded so badly that they have no to live and the body simply shuts down. Case in point: Padme Skywalker.

I have theorized though, that powerful positive emotions (Joy, Hope, Love) could be drawn from with similar effective strength. It was stated that Darth Plagueis had the ability to "prevent death" in others, but it is also noted that the Dark Side cannot be used to heal. For me this raises the question, did Darth Plagueis draw off these positive emotions despite being a Sith Lord?

Since the Jedi strive to remove emotion from their respective equation, I believe it limits the strength they get from the Force. Yes there are some Jedi of noted strength in the Force, Yoda for example. But think about how powerful he might be if he drew on his emotions.

In regards to Light Vs Dark Side in terms of power, it's more a view of the application. What is power? Great references previously, Vitiate's devouring an entire planet = immortality, Starkiller Force pulling a Stardestroyer, Plagueis stopping or reversing death, the Thought Bomb killing vaporizing force sensitives and absorbing/trapping their essence for all time... that is pure power. Often unchecked, irresponsible, self-serving but power all the same. Best Light Side comparisons are battle meditation, impenetrable barriers, collectively foreseeing events. That's a huge disparity of power, Yoda doesn't pack it up and run from Sidious in Episode III because he has something else important to do, he knows he's outgunned and it's a tactical retreat having faith the Force will show a path eventually. Sith power has the distinct advantage but leads to madness and arrogance in that power. They destroy themselves more often than not or think losing is impossible and overlook the instrument(s) of their destruction. But power being in their favor is undeniable, since that is a main lure of the Dark Side.

[DarthProdigal]

Is there any reason a Sith/Darkside user couldn't be heroic? Selfless even?



Righteous anger can be a powerful emotion. Like batman, for example. He's an anger driven hero.


But, as far as I know, that's not something we see in the Star Wars universe. Why not?

This is explained by several Sith Lords in books, most memorable to me are both Plagueis and Bane. Basically, to sum it up compassion is viewed in Sith ideology as a weakness. Something to be trained out of you before achieving the title of Sith Lord. Burning away and discarding emotions that can breed weakness. Especially in death battles where a moments hesitation means death, mercy to an enemy or former ally can result in future danger, not being willing to sacrifice lives for power or a plan means failure; not just in that moment/plan but as a Sith who lacked the strength of conviction to do what was necessary to attain power.

Now this doesn't mean everything is off the table with "positive emotions" Plagueis "loves" his research, Bane shows some mercy if it serves an ultimate purpose, Vader is initially driven by love to do anything to save his wife. But, in theory they are supposed to use their emotions to their advantage, not be enslaved by them. Easier in theory than practice (much like the Jedi) but choosing to be selfless is paradoxical to the training and general goals of a Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Maul could be argued to be closest to self sacrificing early on, but also likely because he was trained to be such, an imperfect tool. Perfect blunt instrument of his master's will and disposable, trained from birth (like Jedi) brainwashing him into accepting death at Sidious command. Also as mentioned Starkiller's heroic efforts I agree to be self serving, but he was also trained as a tool not a potential successor to the mantle of Dark Lord.

[DarthProdigal]

Regarding Darth Bane...bear in mind before I answer that I approach things from a perspective that could be described as an unconventional Sith, so my answer probably manages to not represent the majority of the Sith Order AND still run counter to anything the Jedi would advocate.

On one hand, from a pragmatic standpoint I can see where Darth Bane was going with the Rule of Two, and yes, it did stop the infighting sufficiently to allow for a kind of long-range planning that prior to that point had not been possible for the Sith Order.

On the other, I think that Bane's actions destroyed the useful side of Sith independence, creating a rigidity of thought that now equaled that of the Jedi.  The Sith code notes that through victory one's chains should be broken and that the Force should set one free.  The degree of ideological conformity created by bringing the entire Sith Order down to the relationship between two individuals alone (which I have to figure is extremely stifling to say the least) in my mind abrogates that part of the code.

In regards to Bane's idea of the Rule of Two shackling the apprentice, yea it does to an extent. To ensure enough of a degree of submissiveness to be trained. In essence you are "freed" from your former life/self and reborn as a Sith. No longer bound by societal constraints/norms, mediocrity, or mundane levels of influence. Free to learn to bend the Dark Side to your will, and use whatever powers you can achieve without your master calling it evil/bad. And one day (if you can) when you surpass your master and kill them you fulfill the second to the last line "Through Victory, My Chains Are Broken". Thus shaping your destiny and that of the order. For better or worse in any case, but free. Which is one of the defining freedoms of the Sith over the Jedi, seeking to use and dominate the Force, not be simply guided by it and trusting it to just do whatever is the "will of the Force". Hence the destruction of the Jedi temple & 99.9% of their Order. That's like the Force slapping Yoda in the face for and with the advice he gave Anakin. Learn to accept loss and move on meditating about it, yea doubt he enjoyed savoring that particular kernel of wisdom in exile for the rest of his life...

[DarthProdigal]

Why does the Dark Side make its users Fugly? lol

This is addressed in both the Darth Plagueis and Revan books. Yellow eyes, withering/aging of the body, Darth Nihilus and Scion's appearances in KOTOR 2, certain powers of the Dark Side corrupt the user's body over time. Most prevalent in high levels of Sith Sorcery (possibly because the Sith race could resist this effect longer due to some natural evolved resistance to the degradation as it's original practitioners) but it's never fully explained. Many are simply maimed in combat, but most simply choose the pursuit of power as a priority over personal appearances. Especially when, as mentioned, they can learn to disguise their true appearance.