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Author Topic: Sith Academy: Korriban  (Read 11992 times)
Obese Wan Kenobese
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: 280
Posts: 1018


Fretful Instigator of the Prismatic Order


« Reply #225 on: February 02, 2018, 04:35:58 PM »

Unfortunately, the dogma of either side is limiting in it's understanding, leading to an imbalanced person. The Jedi make an effort toward self control, though fall short of it. The Sith promise many things to lure others into their grasp/service, though it is ultimately a lie. As this is all a parallel analogy for psychology and morality, a more complete understanding of emotions and their cause brings wisdom to a Jedi or Sith. A more complete understanding of the emotion to Force influence brings wisdom as well. The Jedi understand the harm that comes from using anger to tap in to the Force pushes back to fuel the anger more. They teach methods in an effort to limit this. However, they limit natural experiences that are essential to understanding oneself and others. The Sith rarely have a very complete understanding. Most are just violent cogs in the Sith machine. Even the most successful and self controlled Sith individuals ultimately fall to their own over confidence, paranoia over losing power or loss of self control by which they destroy what they wanted. Use your anger, don't let it use you. Ultimately, this over simplifies the promise of power, while at least recognizing a potential pit fall. But, this doesn't provide complete experience and wisdom. Usually, the Jedi get more time to share experiences. The Sith hide their knowledge from each other, except when it suits them. A more complete understanding leads to the most powerful and prominent of Sith and Jedi.
Logged

Selfish passion is unquenching.
What strength have you when you are a slave to your passions?
What power without strength of character?
To self centered rage, you will be chained.
The dark side is no victory.

The long path to peace is through balanced emotions.
The first step to gaining knowledge is recognizing your own ignorance.
Serenity is patient, not passionate satisfaction.
Find harmony by understanding chaos.
Become one with the force, which will never die.

Illyiss
Knight Templar
*

Force Alignment: -111
Posts: 371



« Reply #226 on: February 02, 2018, 04:49:19 PM »

While you are not wrong in your overall analysis of the two specific philosophic opposing orders, it's not quite what I am getting at.  If we look past the dogma, past the truth that one would understand more completely to explore it all, the question becomes, neither set of views addresses what of tapping the force with the emotions not considered negative?  As I said, the Jedi in their vain quest for control of self and to play the saints, disavow all passions and emotional connection to the force.  The Sith code would seem to embrace all emotional exploration, but unless I have missed something, there are only provided examples of using the adrenal stimulating emotions, the so called "negative" emotions.  So stepping beyond the dogma and examples (unless there are some that I do not know of, if so, please, enlighten me), is the force thus also accessible and useful as tools of ALL the range of emotion, and if so, does that bring the "sides" of the force down to emotionally accessed vs. access via the Jedi's stunted grasping?
Logged

Peace is a lie...

Dominix LE V4 Tri-Cree FO, Sentinel LE V4 BR

Obese Wan Kenobese
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: 280
Posts: 1018


Fretful Instigator of the Prismatic Order


« Reply #227 on: February 02, 2018, 06:42:28 PM »

I've seen Force methods as emotional tapping or concentration access. Love can be a powerful motivator, but it's usually fear of losing a loved one that taps the Force. Luke, motivated by love, will still use concentration and training to access the Force. Anakin, used anger, which blinded him and drove him to harm the one he loved. Perhaps love, not fear of losing it, plays some part in the rare ability of healing others.

I'm reminded of the Blackest Night storyline of Green Lantern. Each ring on the spectrum is a metaphor for emotions and how they interact. Perhaps there are base emotions which viscerally link one to the Force, and there is concentration and practice to access the Force. The more complex emotions, other than fear and anger, may have unseen effects on any experienced Force user. Palpatine sure did seem to enjoy other's anger. He was tickled grey as he tapped into his own anger while casting lightning. In truth, people experience mixed emotions. The Jedi are not truly without emotion. Concentration and using ones feelings...which ones?

It's either not explored in the canon writings, or I'd put it in Jedi 'feelings'. Though Sith can also use them, if trained.

I'd say Heir to the Jedi is a good read with at least one example of how emotionally tapping the Force can let one's emotions run out of control. I even think there's something of a sad/happy memory that Luke uses in his meditation that helps him. The Jedi, when trained, are having emotion, but they are urged to stay aware and focused. The Sith are told to use their anger, but how? You've got to know what makes you angry. You've got to obsess over it. Relive the torture. Turn it against any opponent, even one you've just met. It's practicing insanity.
Logged

Selfish passion is unquenching.
What strength have you when you are a slave to your passions?
What power without strength of character?
To self centered rage, you will be chained.
The dark side is no victory.

The long path to peace is through balanced emotions.
The first step to gaining knowledge is recognizing your own ignorance.
Serenity is patient, not passionate satisfaction.
Find harmony by understanding chaos.
Become one with the force, which will never die.

Taegin Roan
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: 670
Posts: 3823


Lord of the Force


« Reply #228 on: February 03, 2018, 02:13:40 PM »

This kinda relates to the current conversation, but in all the stories over in the Fan Fiction section, there are many different ways of viewing and seeing the Force that you may be interested in. One great example is in the stories by Karmack, where he uses the Force to separate the vertebrae, instantly killing the person. There are a few others, like memory stealing, and teleportation and stuff. Kind of some cool ways of applying the Force.
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"I am the Outcast's Shadow" - Taegin Roan
"We are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the first order down." - Poe Dameron

Avatar by DarthScrub

Darth Logos
Sith Legend
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -34446
Posts: 11365


Spoiler Alert!


« Reply #229 on: February 05, 2018, 12:19:41 PM »

Unfortunately, the dogma of either side is limiting in it's understanding, leading to an imbalanced person. The Jedi make an effort toward self control, though fall short of it. The Sith promise many things to lure others into their grasp/service, though it is ultimately a lie. As this is all a parallel analogy for psychology and morality, a more complete understanding of emotions and their cause brings wisdom to a Jedi or Sith. A more complete understanding of the emotion to Force influence brings wisdom as well. The Jedi understand the harm that comes from using anger to tap in to the Force pushes back to fuel the anger more. They teach methods in an effort to limit this. However, they limit natural experiences that are essential to understanding oneself and others. The Sith rarely have a very complete understanding. Most are just violent cogs in the Sith machine. Even the most successful and self controlled Sith individuals ultimately fall to their own over confidence, paranoia over losing power or loss of self control by which they destroy what they wanted. Use your anger, don't let it use you. Ultimately, this over simplifies the promise of power, while at least recognizing a potential pit fall. But, this doesn't provide complete experience and wisdom. Usually, the Jedi get more time to share experiences. The Sith hide their knowledge from each other, except when it suits them. A more complete understanding leads to the most powerful and prominent of Sith and Jedi.
I agree with most of this. The dogma of both sides limits the fullest extents of their abilities. The Jedi shun even having emotions, in order to avoid the negative aspects of having them. Sith mistakenly focus on the quick power of negative emotions. A true Grey (Sith or Jedi) would actually be more powerful than their purist compatriots. Emotions are natural, and serve a purpose in life, so why deny it?

While you are not wrong in your overall analysis of the two specific philosophic opposing orders, it's not quite what I am getting at.  If we look past the dogma, past the truth that one would understand more completely to explore it all, the question becomes, neither set of views addresses what of tapping the force with the emotions not considered negative?  As I said, the Jedi in their vain quest for control of self and to play the saints, disavow all passions and emotional connection to the force.  The Sith code would seem to embrace all emotional exploration, but unless I have missed something, there are only provided examples of using the adrenal stimulating emotions, the so called "negative" emotions.  So stepping beyond the dogma and examples (unless there are some that I do not know of, if so, please, enlighten me), is the force thus also accessible and useful as tools of ALL the range of emotion, and if so, does that bring the "sides" of the force down to emotionally accessed vs. access via the Jedi's stunted grasping?
This has been a major complaint of mine with any of the established Sith organizations; the Code is not inherently evil. Power is not an evil thing. The unfortunate aspect comes from the fact that evil people generally seek out power or ways to attain it. Darth Bane premised that power was a means to an end, not the end itself. In his Grand Plan, the acquisition of power/influence in the galaxy was a means to eventually destroy the Jedi.

Logged

...the Force shall set me free.

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