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Author Topic: Jedi Academy: Tython  (Read 35177 times)
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« Reply #210 on: June 24, 2019, 05:36:30 AM »

I have trouble with identification as a Gray Jedi. Basically, 99% of people in our mundane world fall into this category. I suppose it is more about identification of my character within the SW universe, maybe some more development on that front. Any guidance on this front would be appreciated.
What most people assume is a Grey Jedi is the "rule breaker": Qui Gon, Quinlan Vos, etc. WRONG. I would classify a true Grey to be more like Master Windu. Possessing the ability to use the Dark Side in times of utmost need without becoming reliant on it. Also, a true Grey could actually be either Jedi or Sith, and any number of shades in between. I've yet to encounter it in my research, but I believe it very possible for a Sith to...........wait for it..........lighten up. Grin
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« Reply #211 on: June 24, 2019, 06:56:00 AM »

What most people assume is a Grey Jedi is the "rule breaker": Qui Gon, Quinlan Vos, etc. WRONG. I would classify a true Grey to be more like Master Windu. Possessing the ability to use the Dark Side in times of utmost need without becoming reliant on it. Also, a true Grey could actually be either Jedi or Sith, and any number of shades in between. I've yet to encounter it in my research, but I believe it very possible for a Sith to...........wait for it..........lighten up. Grin

According to Lumyia, there was a Sith Lord who did no Evil...Darth Vectivus.     To me the best examples of Grey would be Ahsoka and Assajj. 
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« Reply #212 on: June 24, 2019, 07:07:20 AM »

According to Lumyia, there was a Sith Lord who did no Evil...Darth Vectivus.     To me the best examples of Grey would be Ahsoka and Assajj. 
I'm not sure about Ahsoka, but I think Asajj fits that.
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« Reply #213 on: June 24, 2019, 07:59:52 AM »

I'm not sure about Ahsoka, but I think Asajj fits that.

Ahsoka is more than willing to get her hands dirtier than the Jedi ever would (Anakin's Training)..she even said she wasn't a Jedi anymore.  I think Grey fits her well...Light Grey to be concise.
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« Reply #214 on: June 24, 2019, 08:01:20 AM »

Ahsoka is more than willing to get her hands dirtier than the Jedi ever would (Anakin's Training)..she even said she wasn't a Jedi anymore.  I think Grey fits her well...Light Grey to be concise.
But I want to hear about her really getting dirty. Give a Force choke or something.
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« Reply #215 on: June 24, 2019, 08:41:57 AM »

According to Lumyia, there was a Sith Lord who did no Evil...Darth Vectivus.     To me the best examples of Grey would be Ahsoka and Assajj. 

SWTOR did an interesting take on that as well. If you play S. Inquisitor (and I played ages ago so I dont know if this has been changed/expanded upon by expansions) and made all light-side choices, you were shown to be concerned with the Empire and its citizens first, being a Sith second. It was an interesting take because the dialogue also suggested if you take that path youre one of the few actually not just engaging in Sith politics constantly and the Empire is better for it. Fun arc.
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« Reply #216 on: June 24, 2019, 10:20:27 AM »

SWTOR did an interesting take on that as well. If you play S. Inquisitor (and I played ages ago so I dont know if this has been changed/expanded upon by expansions) and made all light-side choices, you were shown to be concerned with the Empire and its citizens first, being a Sith second. It was an interesting take because the dialogue also suggested if you take that path youre one of the few actually not just engaging in Sith politics constantly and the Empire is better for it. Fun arc.

Interesting.  In the fan-fic I'm working on for this site, I'm developing a closet Force user into a pseudo-Sith Lord after Palpatine's fall, and what' you're saying here aligns with the reasons he does things.

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« Reply #217 on: June 24, 2019, 11:22:51 AM »

I think it is likely that some see Ashoka, and others like her, as "Grey Jedi" because they have left the Jedi order, sometimes path, but are not Sith.  Like there is only the two choices, and to be between them is to be a Grey Jedi.  Ashoka said she is not Jedi any longer, which, to me, means she has left the order.  Left it's stifling rules and traditions that are so rigidly adhered to that there is no adjustment for changing times and new situations.  She is still clearly a "light" side adherent, just not a member of the Jedi Order. 

Asaj, otoh, is a Night Sister, and was trained by a Sith.  She was firmly dark side, and nominally Sith.  Until she was betrayed (from a certain point of view), and rethought her ideology, and adopted a much more blended outlook.  A grey or middle way, yes, though still, not Jedi nor Sith.

I have felt for some time that the term "Grey Jedi" is problematic in that it lumps all those in with the Jedi, which is an order, not the only way to follow the light, and it dismisses less dark Sith.  It is also lacking because it is not cannon, though the other problem is there isn't much cannon to describe Jedi/Sith style force users that are in the middle and not a part of either group.  It's entirely fan made.  Not that I have a problem at all with fan made additions to lore, so long as it's well thought out and fits in rationally.

So why not come up with a different term?  A generic one perhaps.  As well, why not more groups that follow something more of a middle way, as many on this forum have done in the fiction section?
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« Reply #218 on: June 24, 2019, 11:35:19 AM »

Not necessarily. A Dark Jedi is not Sith, but is certainly not considered Grey.
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« Reply #219 on: June 24, 2019, 11:39:10 AM »

I think it is likely that some see Ashoka, and others like her, as "Grey Jedi" because they have left the Jedi order, sometimes path, but are not Sith.  Like there is only the two choices, and to be between them is to be a Grey Jedi.  Ashoka said she is not Jedi any longer, which, to me, means she has left the order.  Left it's stifling rules and traditions that are so rigidly adhered to that there is no adjustment for changing times and new situations.  She is still clearly a "light" side adherent, just not a member of the Jedi Order.  

Asaj, otoh, is a Night Sister, and was trained by a Sith.  She was firmly dark side, and nominally Sith.  Until she was betrayed (from a certain point of view), and rethought her ideology, and adopted a much more blended outlook.  A grey or middle way, yes, though still, not Jedi nor Sith.

I have felt for some time that the term "Grey Jedi" is problematic in that it lumps all those in with the Jedi, which is an order, not the only way to follow the light, and it dismisses less dark Sith.  It is also lacking because it is not cannon, though the other problem is there isn't much cannon to describe Jedi/Sith style force users that are in the middle and not a part of either group.  It's entirely fan made.  Not that I have a problem at all with fan made additions to lore, so long as it's well thought out and fits in rationally.

So why not come up with a different term?  A generic one perhaps.  As well, why not more groups that follow something more of a middle way, as many on this forum have done in the fiction section?

Pablo Hidalgo has said the Term Grey Jedi is wrong and that it is just Grey.  As the Bendu said "The Light, the Dark and the Grey."    A lot of things seemed to point towards them exploring this more in the new Canon, but as of yet they have not.   But the Idea of Grey Jedi wasn't fan made, it was used in games and manuals with no clear definition to it.

Within the old EU there were multiple groups that did follow this path:  The Voss Mystics, The Jensaarai and The Imperial Knights to be exact.
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« Reply #220 on: June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 AM »

Pablo Hidalgo has said the Term Grey Jedi is wrong and that it is just Grey.  As the Bendu said "The Light, the Dark and the Grey."    A lot of things seemed to point towards them exploring this more in the new Canon, but as of yet they have not.   But the Idea of Grey Jedi wasn't fan made, it was used in games and manuals with no clear definition to it.

You think those game designers WEREN'T fans?  Wink
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« Reply #221 on: June 24, 2019, 12:08:46 PM »

Pablo Hidalgo has said the Term Grey Jedi is wrong and that it is just Grey.  As the Bendu said "The Light, the Dark and the Grey."    A lot of things seemed to point towards them exploring this more in the new Canon, but as of yet they have not.   But the Idea of Grey Jedi wasn't fan made, it was used in games and manuals with no clear definition to it.

Within the old EU there were multiple groups that did follow this path:  The Voss Mystics, The Jensaarai and The Imperial Knights to be exact.
Who the hell is Pablo?

But yes: Grey implies use of both Light and Dark Sides.
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« Reply #222 on: June 24, 2019, 12:26:10 PM »

Who the hell is Pablo?

But yes: Grey implies use of both Light and Dark Sides.

Pablo Hidalgo. BIG wig at LucasArts and responsible for good chunk of pre-disney SW lore and backstory.
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« Reply #223 on: June 24, 2019, 12:27:16 PM »

Who the hell is Pablo?

But yes: Grey implies use of both Light and Dark Sides.

He is the man who should be on the top of your S**t list.  Pablo Hidalgo is the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group, he is the one who says what is canon and what is not.  He's actually worked for Lucasfilm   since right before the prequels came out and is the one (along with Leland Che who also still works there) who gave us the different levels of canon ( G, T, C, S Etc.) before the dark times.
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« Reply #224 on: June 24, 2019, 01:06:31 PM »

It seems like a lot of semantics over Gray Jedi.  The Wookipedia seems to have a lot to say on the subject.  Pablo not withstanding.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

I can certainly see an inclination to call somehone who's left the Jedi order or drifted to murkier waters (and thus WAS a Jedi)  a "Gray Jedi"

It even makes sense to meet somebody who's got force powers, seems Jedi-like, but not quite wearing team colors a Gray Jedi.  Maybe not correct, but it's a point of reference.

That article seems to cover that.

Also, calling somebody a "Force User" is lame. So Jedi gets tacked onto the end.

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