Jedi Academy: Tython

[Darth Logos]

Here's the jedi version of Sith Lightning: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment .  Personally I think both versions should just be called Force Lightning; however, I also think the methods by which it is generated does differ between jedi and Sith.  

I actually had a thought on this over the weekend. Could lightning also be generated for feelings of excitement? Like say you're all geeked up, could you use that kind of positive emotion to generate a similar electrical current, but it wouldn't necessarily be offensive, but rather utilitarian. Like Starkiller did on Raxus Prime to power up the derelict engines.

[Darth Justicar]

I actually had a thought on this over the weekend. Could lightning also be generated for feelings of excitement? Like say you're all geeked up, could you use that kind of positive emotion to generate a similar electrical current, but it wouldn't necessarily be offensive, but rather utilitarian. Like Starkiller did on Raxus Prime to power up the derelict engines.

I could see that easily, and that's one of the two main reasons I really struggle with the whole classification of powers thing.  Heck, I could even see someone with an *extreme* amount of training and discipline shocking a stopped heart back into working.

[Darth Logos]

I could see that easily, and that's one of the two main reasons I really struggle with the whole classification of powers thing.  Heck, I could even see someone with an *extreme* amount of training and discipline shocking a stopped heart back into working.

Drawing off of 'hope'?

[Darth Justicar]

Drawing off of 'hope'?

Potentially, though admittedly it would be affected by fear as well.  But then I'm sure real-life first responders work off of that exact same duality: the hopeful belief in being able to make a difference and the adrenaline shot of energy and yes, fear, that keeps you sharp in the right dose.

[Darth Logos]

Potentially, though admittedly it would be affected by fear as well.  But then I'm sure real-life first responders work off of that exact same duality: the hopeful belief in being able to make a difference and the adrenaline shot of energy and yes, fear, that keeps you sharp in the right dose.

This is a little off topic, but in my experience, fear is what produces adrenaline. Fear that you don't have strength or skill enough to achieve your goal. Which then leaves two choices: hope or panic.

[Master Medwyn]

It could be an interesting discussion about how intentional or rather how reflexive we are as beings.
Shall we take a look at the outcome of an action to justify or the motive?

Fear is a reaction - whatever comes out of fear is driven by a past experience and an assumption that it'll happen again the same way if...
Hope and panic as emotions are again automatically "produced" by the body as the necessary chemicals to feel this or that way. No control over these ones - the control (and the way of the Jedi) starts where the awareness turns up recognizing these automatic reactions within the self.

So as I understand that's where Sith and Jedi traditions part ways: first a reactive emotion appears as a feeling, then either one can say "hey, let's live up to this feeling and fulfill/amplify/unleash it" or "I sense there's a feeling arising in me so in my awareness I can decide whether I let it rule me or I rule it out".

The later is more conscious and has more choices because of the advanced control over the self, the earlier can be stronger as it's more sudden and so can have more control over the environment.
It's surely hard to be a jedi if there's a war like there have always been a war in the SW universe - destruction is inevitable and the flow of being reflexive can easily overwhelm any training and delicated self control. Like when Obi-wan was celebrating the "easy victory" in EP2 when only Yoda remined conscious about what happened wasn't a victory at all to get involved in to the Clone Wars.

[James Casey]

That would be the reason for the extensive Jedi training, however. Their awareness of the Force and instinctive self-control should insulate them against letting their guard down.

Jedi learn to recognise their emotions, but they aren't bound to act on them - anger, fear, hatred... They find ways to control them. As you say, their awareness of them is key - acting on the almost subliminal anger you can experience when dealing with a difficult bureaucrat, for example, would be bad. I believe that exact example has shown up in the EU more than once

Within the Clone Wars, the hopelessness and needless sacrifice certainly wore down the Jedi, and at least in the (Legends) comics was the cause for several having encounters with the Dark Side. Dooku relied on those feelings when he approached Jedi in an attempt to win them over, and the Jedi recognised it - Quinlan Vos relied on it as part of his background when he went undercover against Dooku.

Yoda referred to the 'shadow of the Dark Side', or something along those lines, as clouding his ability to divine the future during the time of the Clone Wars and their buildup, when Sidious and Plagueis were bringing the goals of the Sith to fruition. While the Sith were a potent presence, and the galaxy as a whole seemed to be (to some degree) more lawless and decadent than one might expect, I wonder whether the Jedi were affected so badly by everything they were experiencing that their ability to counterbalance the growing darkness was affected. Beset by despair, fear and even hatred, surrounded by clones with an aggressive mindset and hostile and frightened civilians, and increasingly whittled down in number, the Order must have suffered as it was killed by inches.

It would be hard to remain positive and focused when so many around you are drowning and lost in their troubles. Throw the Force into the mix, and each weakened Jedi would be likely to affect (and infect) those around them, especially as they grew in number.

[Darth Logos]

It could be an interesting discussion about how intentional or rather how reflexive we are as beings.
Shall we take a look at the outcome of an action to justify or the motive?

Fear is a reaction - whatever comes out of fear is driven by a past experience and an assumption that it'll happen again the same way if...
Hope and panic as emotions are again automatically "produced" by the body as the necessary chemicals to feel this or that way. No control over these ones - the control (and the way of the Jedi) starts where the awareness turns up recognizing these automatic reactions within the self.

So as I understand that's where Sith and Jedi traditions part ways: first a reactive emotion appears as a feeling, then either one can say "hey, let's live up to this feeling and fulfill/amplify/unleash it" or "I sense there's a feeling arising in me so in my awareness I can decide whether I let it rule me or I rule it out".

The later is more conscious and has more choices because of the advanced control over the self, the earlier can be stronger as it's more sudden and so can have more control over the environment.
It's surely hard to be a jedi if there's a war like there have always been a war in the SW universe - destruction is inevitable and the flow of being reflexive can easily overwhelm any training and delicated self control. Like when Obi-wan was celebrating the "easy victory" in EP2 when only Yoda remined conscious about what happened wasn't a victory at all to get involved in to the Clone Wars.

I think you mean latter and prior, but enough about English.

It is a misconception that the Sith are without self control. Every martial artist that ever achieved a rank above first degree white belt had to have some semblance of discipline...

Even this guy:

Darth Maul was a consummate warrior, and would not have achieved his level of skill if he threw up his arms in a tantrum every time he got frustrated with his training regimen.

Yes the Sith (and other Dark Side users) have their bouts with "losing it" but they do not advocate it. The Sith use their emotions to draw strength and power, where the Jedi endeavor to avoid the temptation. But both utilize self control.

A tool that cannot be controlled is not useful.

[Master Medwyn]

That would be the reason for the extensive Jedi training, however. Their awareness of the Force and instinctive self-control should insulate them against letting their guard down.

Jedi learn to recognise their emotions, but they aren't bound to act on them - anger, fear, hatred... They find ways to control them. As you say, their awareness of them is key - acting on the almost subliminal anger you can experience when dealing with a difficult bureaucrat, for example, would be bad. I believe that exact example has shown up in the EU more than once

Within the Clone Wars, the hopelessness and needless sacrifice certainly wore down the Jedi, and at least in the (Legends) comics was the cause for several having encounters with the Dark Side. Dooku relied on those feelings when he approached Jedi in an attempt to win them over, and the Jedi recognised it - Quinlan Vos relied on it as part of his background when he went undercover against Dooku.

Yoda referred to the 'shadow of the Dark Side', or something along those lines, as clouding his ability to divine the future during the time of the Clone Wars and their buildup, when Sidious and Plagueis were bringing the goals of the Sith to fruition. While the Sith were a potent presence, and the galaxy as a whole seemed to be (to some degree) more lawless and decadent than one might expect, I wonder whether the Jedi were affected so badly by everything they were experiencing that their ability to counterbalance the growing darkness was affected. Beset by despair, fear and even hatred, surrounded by clones with an aggressive mindset and hostile and frightened civilians, and increasingly whittled down in number, the Order must have suffered as it was killed by inches.

It would be hard to remain positive and focused when so many around you are drowning and lost in their troubles. Throw the Force into the mix, and each weakened Jedi would be likely to affect (and infect) those around them, especially as they grew in number.

Oh, I like these characters you mentioned: Vos is possibly my favourite (now I have to dig up those comics and read again, I enjoyed them very much!) and also it was great to see Mace Windu in details by the book of Ep3 how he was such a master of using the Dark Side "when needed" without turning.

I think you mean latter and prior, but enough about English.

Sorry, English is not my first language. Will learn from your words here.

[Darth Logos]

Were the Je'daii a specific species much like the Sith were a species but the name lived on in the collective despite the lineage of its members?

[Drahcir]

Stickied this topic per the request of others - its counterpart the Sith Academy also got a sticky so make sure to visit it too.
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=28147.0

[Darth Logos]

Stickied this topic per the request of others - its counterpart the Sith Academy also got a sticky so make sure to visit it too.
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=28147.0

Thanks.

[Vivectius]

Were the Je'daii a specific species much like the Sith were a species but the name lived on in the collective despite the lineage of its members?

So, I'm curious as to whether I should answer this question, as it's directed to the jedi on the forum, but I do know the answer.  Basically, are the two knowledge threads open to anyone answering, regardless of which "side" they're on?

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

So, I'm curious as to whether I should answer this question, as it's directed to the jedi on the forum, but I do know the answer.  Basically, are the two knowledge threads open to anyone answering, regardless of which "side" they're on?

Yes, I was about to give my reply, but I am far more curious as to what you've found.

[Vivectius]

Yes, I was about to give my reply, but I am far more curious as to what you've found.

Given that we usually go to the same place for the answers, we probably found the same thing.

The Je'daii were not a species, but members of the Je'daii Order, which, after a few civil wars and schisms, would eventually become the jedi order.  Interestingly, the Je'daii are much closer to some Grey jedi philosophies of balance within the Force.  They acknowledged both sides of the Force, the Ashla (light side) and Bogen (Dark Side).  Each side was represented in the two moons of Tython, and any member who went too far to either side was banished to either the light or dark moon, depending on which way they went, to meditate and bring themselves back into balance.

Further history, and what eventually happened to bring about the destruction of the Je'daii, and the birth of the jedi can be found here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je%27daii_Order .  Note that like so much else, this is no long canon, and now merely the Legend of a bygone era...