Form of the WATER - (DEK) Forms of the Elements-series

[Master Medwyn]

Here's the WATER, the next form of the Distant Earth Knighthood

The philosophy:
- the two main pillars of the Water form are flow and control
- the water's shape is adaptive, so as its softness and hardness: all depend on what it's going to meet and how
- from the center of the depth there are the waves forming and converting the calmness to a transforming force - then it returns to the center
- space is created with spins - it's a personal zone of potential which opens up when there's a gap the water can flow in

Hope you'll enjoy this one, again, any feedbacks are welcome

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF6TXhIWm7A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF6TXhIWm7A</a>

[BurceChuat]

Great job, yet again! You move beautifully, and I might just have to practice this form.

[azn86.jedi]

Very nice.

It very closely resembles the use of the Chinese Jian, or straightsword. Very artistic! Point for you!

Great job, yet again! You move beautifully, and I might just have to practice this form.

I'll definitely mark these as one of my favourites too

[Darth Justicar]

That is gorgeous.  It is still clear I am very much of the FIRE spirit, but watching this was still a treat.

[Master Medwyn]

Thank you all

It very closely resembles the use of the Chinese Jian, or straightsword.

Yes, I found some Jian moves very helpful to smooth out the flow here and there. (The good thing - theoretically - in lightsabers is that they allow some lazyness as well because any parts of the blade are "lethal" and techniques are not restricted to certain parts or angles of the blade to be effective )

[Rapine]

Great job! 

I enjoy watching these, and you really are good. 

Point.

[Master Medwyn]

Great job! 

I enjoy watching these, and you really are good. 

Point.

Thank you Lord Rapine, since I've learned that you have a rapidly growing Sith-family, I guess I have to train harder

[Rapine]

Thank you Lord Rapine, since I've learned that you have a rapidly growing Sith-family, I guess I have to train harder

TBH (a trait I'm paying forward) it will be some time before any one of is as talented as you - hence the number...lol

[Vivectius]

*sigh*

It's going to be interesting to see all five individually and then combined.

There are parts of it I don't care for, similar to the Fire form, but I doubt any of these forms would ever be used exclusively.  Which is why I'm eager to see them combined into a whole.  I anticipate that each element will complement the others and form a solid whole.

And of course, watching a video is completely different than facing someone in combat  .

[Master Medwyn]

Vivectius, you do bring up some fundamental points I think well worth discussing
Please consider the following thoughts of mine in the subject as my personal approach based on my own experience as accurate as I'm able to be.

I have been thinking about the combined form since you mentioned it in the beginning. It could certainly be a synthesis of all the materials and it's an obvious step after laying down some fundaments. For me, the catch is that it should not be me to put that together in the first place - and let me explain that in more details.

As you say, in an ideal case these movements and elements would complement the others to form a whole. However "THE combined form" may not be the way I would push it forward, instead I would encourage "A combined form" which is not standardized for everyone but it may be mine and his and hers, all tailored to the individual skills and personalities.
These forms (just like any others I believe) are opportunities to practice some moves and techniques for which each form provides a unique context. And it's the practice which can bring any of these alive: the repetitive training which teaches the body to follow a certain combination of movements until they become natural and reflexive in some ways. (Practice is always the hardest part, I do know talking about something is much more entertaining but it's the practice which gives far the most valuable rewards (at least for me) - the joy of exploring, unfolding myself and how I'm connected to which aspect of this world, then retry to see if these patterns could be fine tuned or completely rewritten in another way).
These forms are not fundamentally different: there are strikes, stabs, slashes, cuts, defences like everywhere else, the differences are in "how" these elements are put together and how it results in another kind of muscle memory through the practice. Some combinations are easier for someone than the others and vice versa, I assume that's what helps to choose which way to lean forward more than the other. Practicing more forms gives the opportunity to the physical self to experience more combinations, possibilities and variety in this "dance" stretching the boundaries more or less depending on personal preferences. With the training some elements become more habitual and reflexive than the others and that's what I think forms someone's attitude towards a special, personal balance. Which then pretty much shows where a combined form would come alive for that person And only for him/her.

So I'll be happy to make my own synthesis of these forms at the end based on how I could embrace the whole lot (and the Spirit form will be something like this but not from this angle), however I would encourage everyone interested in practicing these to create their own combined forms suitable for their own physical needs and boundaries. There's no right or wrong to keep in mind but the possibilities of the experiences in which someone can go deeper in his/her own rabbit hole and come back from there as a slightly different person every time a lightsaber has been swang

I do agree with you with how real combat works comparing to video watching In real combat everything is overly simplified to get to the desirable results the quickest possible. Effectiveness over all, the most simple techniques applied on the shortest way to score. No fancy dance but the purest of the techniques however that's the most interesting test to see what muscle memories are triggered and how often of those had been practiced through the forms and how much they serve the purpose. Another "level up" can be to revisit the forms after some combat experience and retrain them in a different ratio to adjust the skills to a requirement of effectiveness learned from the combat experience. But combat is another story, doesn't even belong to this forum section

I'm glad you approach to these forms with a strong and guided selective attitude, that's the way I would suggest to use them if there's anything one can find useful. 

[GregG124]

Good stuff! I've awarded you your 90th point

[azn86.jedi]

Vivectius, you do bring up some fundamental points I think well worth discussing
Please consider the following thoughts of mine in the subject as my personal approach based on my own experience as accurate as I'm able to be.

I have been thinking about the combined form since you mentioned it in the beginning. It could certainly be a synthesis of all the materials and it's an obvious step after laying down some fundaments. For me, the catch is that it should not be me to put that together in the first place - and let me explain that in more details.

As you say, in an ideal case these movements and elements would complement the others to form a whole. However "THE combined form" may not be the way I would push it forward, instead I would encourage "A combined form" which is not standardized for everyone but it may be mine and his and hers, all tailored to the individual skills and personalities.
These forms (just like any others I believe) are opportunities to practice some moves and techniques for which each form provides a unique context. And it's the practice which can bring any of these alive: the repetitive training which teaches the body to follow a certain combination of movements until they become natural and reflexive in some ways. (Practice is always the hardest part, I do know talking about something is much more entertaining but it's the practice which gives far the most valuable rewards (at least for me) - the joy of exploring, unfolding myself and how I'm connected to which aspect of this world, then retry to see if these patterns could be fine tuned or completely rewritten in another way).
These forms are not fundamentally different: there are strikes, stabs, slashes, cuts, defences like everywhere else, the differences are in "how" these elements are put together and how it results in another kind of muscle memory through the practice. Some combinations are easier for someone than the others and vice versa, I assume that's what helps to choose which way to lean forward more than the other. Practicing more forms gives the opportunity to the physical self to experience more combinations, possibilities and variety in this "dance" stretching the boundaries more or less depending on personal preferences. With the training some elements become more habitual and reflexive than the others and that's what I think forms someone's attitude towards a special, personal balance. Which then pretty much shows where a combined form would come alive for that person And only for him/her.

So I'll be happy to make my own synthesis of these forms at the end based on how I could embrace the whole lot (and the Spirit form will be something like this but not from this angle), however I would encourage everyone interested in practicing these to create their own combined forms suitable for their own physical needs and boundaries. There's no right or wrong to keep in mind but the possibilities of the experiences in which someone can go deeper in his/her own rabbit hole and come back from there as a slightly different person every time a lightsaber has been swang

I do agree with you with how real combat works comparing to video watching In real combat everything is overly simplified to get to the desirable results the quickest possible. Effectiveness over all, the most simple techniques applied on the shortest way to score. No fancy dance but the purest of the techniques however that's the most interesting test to see what muscle memories are triggered and how often of those had been practiced through the forms and how much they serve the purpose. Another "level up" can be to revisit the forms after some combat experience and retrain them in a different ratio to adjust the skills to a requirement of effectiveness learned from the combat experience. But combat is another story, doesn't even belong to this forum section

I'm glad you approach to these forms with a strong and guided selective attitude, that's the way I would suggest to use them if there's anything one can find useful. 

well said. After all, lightsaber combat is effectively a culmination of forms drawn together from many things.

It's certainly up to each individual to see what is applicable to them and what isn't. Creating one's own style isn't something that comes overnight, it's a journey. Very much how each of us are living our own lives. I used to do some martial arts and I can tell you what you learn and how you then apply it are two VERY different things. Real combat isn't pretty, as medwyn said. It's what's more effective that counts in the end. Yes, training in fundementals will definitely come in handy with muscle memory.

[Vivectius]

Medwyn, it would be interesting to get together with you sometime.  I think our fundamental philosophy is the same, or at least very similar, we just execute it very differently.

My problem is that I view everything as to how useful/usable it would be in combat.  This preconceived question filters what I see and how I see it.  To be absolutely clear, this is a problem on my end exclusively, not an issue I have with anything you or anyone else has said or presented.

I completely agree with using what works best for you, which is completely individual based.  However, there's more to it than that for me, though as you very correctly pointed out, this isn't the forum for combat discussions. 

Specific to the forms you're presenting, I do think you should be the one to combine them into one, let's say 'presentation,' rather than Form.  I'm interested to see them all together, I suppose as the 'Art' part of Martial Arts.  I'm sure there are as many ways to combine them as there are individual movements within each form, and I'm sure there are also as many ways to combine them as there are people doing the combining.  I'm also willing to bet that there are people who would swear they favor one form over all others, yet if they were to incorporate all of them together, that one "favored" form would be barely represented.

And I agree with exploring as much as possible all available techniques and arts that are available to a person.  To my thinking, over focus on one particular thing, which may result in a greater understanding of that one thing, leads to a form of stagnation, as so much else is excluded.  Trying new techniques, moves, motions, combinations is what allows growth, and discovery of what does and doesn't work for a person.  But then, I'm starting to get back to combat mentality again.  So, in a way, I'm exploring what of what you're presenting works for me and what doesn't  .

Plus I enjoy these kind of discussions.

One question I've been meaning to ask, which you may have mentioned somewhere and I've either missed or forgotten, is which saber you're using?  The Adegan Silver blade is interesting to actually see in motion as opposed to static in a photograph.  What I would love to see, and may have to do myself, is the forms in a completely dark environment, just seeing the blade moving through the darkness.  Of course if I do it, the blade will be Blazing Red....or maybe Hot Pink. 

[Master Medwyn]

Medwyn, it would be interesting to get together with you sometime.  I think our fundamental philosophy is the same, or at least very similar, we just execute it very differently.

My problem is that I view everything as to how useful/usable it would be in combat.  This preconceived question filters what I see and how I see it.  To be absolutely clear, this is a problem on my end exclusively, not an issue I have with anything you or anyone else has said or presented.

I completely agree with using what works best for you, which is completely individual based.  However, there's more to it than that for me, though as you very correctly pointed out, this isn't the forum for combat discussions. 

Specific to the forms you're presenting, I do think you should be the one to combine them into one, let's say 'presentation,' rather than Form.  I'm interested to see them all together, I suppose as the 'Art' part of Martial Arts.  I'm sure there are as many ways to combine them as there are individual movements within each form, and I'm sure there are also as many ways to combine them as there are people doing the combining.  I'm also willing to bet that there are people who would swear they favor one form over all others, yet if they were to incorporate all of them together, that one "favored" form would be barely represented.

And I agree with exploring as much as possible all available techniques and arts that are available to a person.  To my thinking, over focus on one particular thing, which may result in a greater understanding of that one thing, leads to a form of stagnation, as so much else is excluded.  Trying new techniques, moves, motions, combinations is what allows growth, and discovery of what does and doesn't work for a person.  But then, I'm starting to get back to combat mentality again.  So, in a way, I'm exploring what of what you're presenting works for me and what doesn't  .

Plus I enjoy these kind of discussions.

One question I've been meaning to ask, which you may have mentioned somewhere and I've either missed or forgotten, is which saber you're using?  The Adegan Silver blade is interesting to actually see in motion as opposed to static in a photograph.  What I would love to see, and may have to do myself, is the forms in a completely dark environment, just seeing the blade moving through the darkness.  Of course if I do it, the blade will be Blazing Red....or maybe Hot Pink. 

That'd be nice to see how they show up in the dark! Unfortunately my camcorder is pretty old and easily looses focus in low light so I can't promise anything.
This is my one and only Prophecy V3 in silver which I find - without any proper comparison - a very comfortable saber to wield in any styles.
I'd be a blast if we could catch up for a spar! Until then I do enjoy these discussions too!
Thanks for your input again!

[Lady Agana Kath]

Beautiful!