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Author Topic: Form of the WATER - (DEK) Forms of the Elements-series  (Read 8970 times)
Master Medwyn
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 12:25:58 PM »

Thank you Lady Agana! Smiley

Meanwhile I scribed this little description, hope it helps to explain a few things in more detail with regards to the Water form:

Water

Flow - that's a fundamental quality of water. Through the flow it is possible for the water to connect to everything, it's the flow what gives the water an ever changing face. The water does not fight resistance, it rather finds its way to flow through or to flow around. This element is a highly adaptive essence of nature with the ability to tranform and to be transformed at the same time.
     Form of the Water is a practice of flow and control. With a wider variety of stances it opens up the possibilities to adapt to different situations while also develops control over them. Rhythmical changes of attacks and defensive  moves create the flow in which there's also a dimension of depth: as the waves reach out and form the troughs and valleys on the way, there's a concentrated centerpoint behind all this like a vortex where the energy returns to and from where it flows out into the next move. As paradoxical as it sounds, the focus of the Water form is constantly moving to allow maximum adaptivity and reactivitiy. The focus is not bound to the location but rater describes the potency of the power that can be delivered from the centerpoint. Depending on what and how the water meets with the moves, the form can change profile between a soft or a hard approach and builds the connections accordingly.
     Practicing the Form of the Water can help to embrace the quality of change and being changed. Receiving and giving are the points in between life flows around creating all shapes and structures and the water is the element binding all these together.


Attack:        O O O
Defence:     O O O
Mobility:      O O O O
Adaptivity:  O O O O O
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Master Medwyn
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2017, 05:32:34 PM »

Meanwhile there's someone who found me being interested in the Water form: he began his training and goes very well! He is also here on this forum but on low profile recently - I'll ask him if he'd like to share his progression once in a while or only when he's been through the whole form. Or none at all Smiley
Anyway, we have great time creating waves and splashes in the fabric of the Force!
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Master Medwyn
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2017, 07:29:30 PM »

Please forgive me for this pretty uncoordinated form of the Water, but who am I resisiting the urge of some practice in "special circumstances"?  Cheesy
Inspired by Chris's practice sessions in late night snow I also had to venture out and see how stable my stances can be on fresh and crunchy snow.
Water on ice it is!  Grin

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjM0mlFPlY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjM0mlFPlY</a>



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TheDutchman
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 12:09:22 PM »

Please forgive me for this pretty uncoordinated form of the Water, but who am I resisiting the urge of some practice in "special circumstances"?  Cheesy
Inspired by Chris's practice sessions in late night snow I also had to venture out and see how stable my stances can be on fresh and crunchy snow.
Water on ice it is!  Grin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjM0mlFPlY




OK Med, if that was " uncoordinated" then I'm a wookie's uncle.  That was beautiful!  I wish that I had your grace and coordination  Smiley
Seeing the kind of fluidity and acuity that you demonstrated is just incredible!
I noticed that you kept a lower stance (Iron Horse, low modified).  Is that indicative of Water Form or your personal preference?

I'd give you more than +1 if I could but for the time limits  Wink
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Master Medwyn
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 11:03:24 PM »

I noticed that you kept a lower stance (Iron Horse, low modified).  Is that indicative of Water Form or your personal preference?

Thanks, Dutchman!
That stance here is actually both: intentional part of the form and also the only way not to slip on the ice Cheesy
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TheDutchman
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 11:20:37 PM »

Thanks, Dutchman!
That stance here is actually both: intentional part of the form and also the only way not to slip on the ice Cheesy
Lol got it: form AND function  Wink
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My sabers:Zearic's Aldrnari, Archon v3 (modded w/ activation box) w/Obsidian, AS; Zearic's shoto, Apprentice v4 w/Obsidian, AS; Graflex SE w/Obsidian, GB; Archon v3 (modded w/ activation box) w/Obsidian, CG; Dark Sentinel v4 w/Obsidian, BR; Sentinel LE v4 w/Obsidian, GB; Initiate v5 w/Obsidian, AS; Sentinel LE v4 stunt, EG; Aeon LE v4 stunt, FO; Dominix v4 stunt, BR; Aeon v3 stunt, SY

mystic_gc525
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2017, 02:22:17 PM »

WOW!

What a delight to find this here! Bravo good sir! I humbly applaud your commitment and dedication to creating this form! From reading the comments, I'm guessing you have demonstrations of your other element forms as well? I'm going to look for them after this.

I practice and teach Wudang Mountain Style Tai Chi and Kung Fu, and right off the bat watching your video I was very impressed with your skill, coordination, and creativity! As soon as you hit the single-leg stance at :17 I began to wonder if you have training in any traditional martial arts styles? Your stances and use of the off arm to balance your saber movements really made me think you probably had studied some type of traditional kung fu? but maybe not?!

Anyway, that was fantastic. The form screams water. You demonstrated excellent fluidity, balance, poise, swiftness, coordination and concentration.

Again, as I am unsure if you've studied any traditional Chinese kung fu or tai chi, you may or may not be aware you are making great use of a lot of the traditional stances used in kung fu? Horse Stance, Bow Stance, Crouching Stance, Hanging Stance, Empty Stance, Diagonal Stance...

As I said, I am a teacher of kung fu, and as I watched I couldn't help but observe a few things I wanted to comment on, and you did say any feedbacks are welcome!

First, at :32 and 1:39 when you do the jumping spin kick, your momentum and angle of trajectory should make it pretty easy for you to carry your left foot up to a high (head level) kick. Conceptually, I would think of this like the crest of a wave or the spray of water that can come from a splash, wave or torrent.

Next, as I believe any swordsman is only as good as their footwork, I am constantly looking for corrections in my students footwork and stances. As I've already noted, I'm unsure of your experience in traditional kung fu, and you know better than me what you are going for in your form, but there are some spots I noticed a few things I would make suggestions on to bring it more in alignment with my understanding of traditional kung fu based on my own training and experience - take them or leave them!

At :19, :37, 1:15, and 1:48 you use a stance where almost all of your weight is in the back foot. In kung fu that's called an Empty Stance because the front foot is empty and usually held in a way where just the toes touch the ground. It's also sometimes called Cat Stance because it gives you the feeling of being a cat that is ready to pounce. If you feel so inclined, you might consider trying to lift the heel of your front foot there, touching your big toe to the ground, and then sink your weight a little more into your back leg. You should be able to keep all other aspects of the techniques you use there pretty much the same.

Only other thing was at some points like :32 and 1:34 you use that low, crouching type stance where your weight is over the back leg. In Kung Fu we call it Crouching Stance, and the thing I'm seeing here is your front extended leg/knee is looking very straight to the point where the knee almost seems locked, it could just be the camera angle, but I teach to never lock that front outstretched leg in a crouching stance because it would be very easy for an opponent to step forward and step on or kick that leg and break the knee. Also, by keeping it slightly bent the whole time, it should keep the front leg more "lively" - that is, easier to move more quickly if someone goes to attack it.

empty/ cat stance

crouching stance

I can't wait to check out your other videos! Some of the styles I study include movements and techniques based on the study of the Chinese 5 Elements (Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal). Not sure if you are familiar with this system of 5 elements (Wu Xing) but in it there are the basic cycles of elemental generation (like the order i listed just now) where each element is generated by the one before it. And there is also the controlling cycle, where each element controls and is controlled by another. e.g. water controls fire. fire controls metal. metal controls wood. wood controls earth. earth controls water.

These cycles are taken into account in the elemental fighting styles I study (Xing Yi Quan and Wudang Wu Xing Quan) especially the control cycle where for example you can use water type techniques to counter fire techniques. metal techniques to counter wood techniques etc...

I was wondering if you've thought of any similar such thing for your system of Elemental Styles?

May the Force and Peace be With You!
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Master Medwyn
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 01:02:57 AM »


May the Force and Peace be With You!

Thank you, mystic, for your thorough review and glad you found something in this form worth to share your thoughts about!
I wholeheartedly agree and share your view on stances and also see the benefit of your suggestions with how the heels could be lifted up to ease the load on the front, "weightless" leg. I had a similar conversation on this very subject with my sifu who I was so fortunate to learn from (it's been mainly shaolin kung-fu since 2001 and a few years of tai-chi (yang and some chen) and Japanese shinkendo along the way) and I have to say the discussion is still ongoing Smiley
By reflex I had the cat stance-type of light front foot in mind when I started tinkering around these forms right until I found a slightly different balance with somewhat more reactive potential in letting that foot rest lightly but fully on the ground. So it's rather a personal reason why I gave up on this traditional and systematic element of kung-fu and I may fail to explain it properly (as my sifu also had his eyebrows pulled up on this Smiley).
Here's how I experience the whole thing: with the saber in hand my whole structure changes and I have to recalibrate it and adjust the balancing to utilize the extra weight and length the saber gives me. One way to do it was to keep the front heels off the ground in which case I felt my body weight started working against the momentum. Weird as it is, the other way I happened to do it is to lower the stances a bit, open them up a bit and rest the whole front feet on the ground in these stances. It gives me a more rooted but also more reactive state with more control over the saber. And - funny thing - any time I practice kung-fu with no weapons in my hands, it all goes back to 'normal', front foot lighted up with toes on the ground only. Smiley It might be my own physical weirdness on body weight but surely the transition to use lightsabers came up with a few phenomena I still am trying to fathom and revise when I see the chance. Not sure if this makes sense for you, apologies if not!

The straight leg you mentioned has no explanation, it's plain wrong like other minor issues you were kind not to mention in this video Smiley
I remember when we recorded this I had been in bed with a virus and 39+ degrees of fever for nearly a week and I just needed to get the hell out of the room and do something. The result is what you can see: a rushed, in some parts recognizably uncoordinated display where I barely could finish the whole thing before I literally collapsed in lack of any physical condition. But I was soooo happy because I believe this move was the turning point in my illness and the freezing cold air has shaken me out of that flu and a few days later I came back to life Cheesy

With regards to the elements and their relations I don't follow any tradition here - the cycles you mention are philosophical masterpieces ripened through ages and cultures, there's nothing I could add to those, not even replicate.
What I was thinking here is rather a collection of impressions of certain types of existence which are part of our biological, physical, physchological phenomena in life. These forms are only trying to tap into these areas to explore the innate characteristics of these elements separately in their absolute values while there's a line of saber moves arranged to a certain form to trigger these inner contents and to kick them around for a flow. It may be easier to think about these "elements" as attitudes: how to experience them, live them and control them through the moves. There is some overlap between them by those are rather technical (you may well be aware of these if you have seen the rest of the forms already) and not philosophical.
And the exciting thing is that the more I practice them, they open up on one side while crystallize on the other so ask me again in a couple of years time, I may give you a bit different answer on this Smiley
Distant Earth Knighthood - forms on the go! LOL Cheesy

Again, thank you for your comment, with your background you certainly have a fine tuned eyes for details which I appreciate and happy to discuss them!
May the Force be with you!

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