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Author Topic: Suicide Squad Discussion and Spoilers Thread.  (Read 1919 times)
Kham-Ryn Kurios
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« on: August 05, 2016, 11:56:21 PM »

Out of courtesy for those that have not seen Suicide Squad please keep all discussion of the film and spoilers therein confined to this thread.




With that said...
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!!!WARNING!!! !!!WARNING!!! !!!WARNING!!!

This is your final warning, Suicide Squad spoilers may follow.

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/LIGHT SIDE POINTS PLEASE\
‎Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

scifidude79
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2016, 12:03:13 AM »

Dang it!  I ignored the warning and I learned too many things about the film!  Tongue
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Kham-Ryn Kurios
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2016, 12:18:01 AM »

Dang it!  I ignored the warning and I learned too many things about the film!  Tongue

Have you seen it yet?
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/LIGHT SIDE POINTS PLEASE\
‎Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

scifidude79
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2016, 12:30:22 AM »

No.  I was just being silly because you said spoilers followed, followed by no spoilers or even discussion about the film.
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Kham-Ryn Kurios
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I am Mr. Yellow.


« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2016, 03:22:28 PM »

No.  I was just being silly because you said spoilers followed, followed by no spoilers or even discussion about the film.

It does say "may follow."  Wink Cheesy

___________________________________


If I had to pick one thing aspect of the movie that I enjoyed the most, it would have to be the dark humor; because they're villains and what a villain finds funny, normies would probably find morbid.  Cheesy

I also really like the fact that (and this is something that no one seems to be talking about) a Woman and a Black Man were the leads of this film and that the two antagonists were both women. And not once, did they ever shine light to make it known that this was the case, it just is, as if things like this aren't constantly being whined about all over social media.

Suicide Squad is also, probably the most progressive CBM to date in terms of representation; sure there are some characters that could use and did deserve some more screen time, but at the end of the day there is no denying that a diverse team of people fought together to defeat evil.  Smiley
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/LIGHT SIDE POINTS PLEASE\
‎Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

LivingBrain
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 05:01:07 PM »


I also really like the fact that (and this is something that no one seems to be talking about) a Woman and a Black Man were the leads of this film and that the two antagonists were both women. And not once, did they ever shine light to make it known that this was the case, it just is, as if things like this aren't constantly being whined about all over social media.

Suicide Squad is also, probably the most progressive CBM to date in terms of representation; sure there are some characters that could use and did deserve some more screen time, but at the end of the day there is no denying that a diverse team of people fought together to defeat evil.  Smiley

I haven't seen the film yet (hoping to tomorrow or sometime next week; life is busy), but the diversity was something I always really appreciated about the film leading up to it.

In general, I've really liked that about DC. While their films haven't been too warmly received they've been more committed to diversity in front of and behind the camera than Marvel has so far (although CIVIL WAR was great for having 3 black characters, who even talked to each other!). I do wonder if part of this is because of changing times (would this have been accepted back when IRON MAN started? The past 8 years have had radical changes all across the board), but that doesn't change the fact that it's awesome and very, very welcome.

So DC wins as far as progressivism goes, but Marvel's upping it there too so we're all winning.  Smiley
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Kham-Ryn Kurios
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 04:34:04 PM »

John Ostrander Reviews the Suicide Squad!


As we start, I think you should know my biases. I think you should know any critics’ bias. Myself, I use them mostly as consumer reporters. If I find a critic whose tastes largely coincide with mine, I tend to trust them more. The late great Roger Ebert was one. Knowing who is giving you their opinion is important; what does their opinion matter if you don’t trust them?

Regarding the Suicide Squad movie, well, I’m biased. I’m prejudiced. I have a vested interest in its success. I want it to succeed. However, if I didn’t like it, I’d be more likely just to keep my trap shut.

My trap is open.

I really liked the film. Not perfect by a long shot, but a really good time in the movie theater. And for me a lot of it was just amazing. The look, the detail, the feel of the film is not something I’ve seen in superhero movies before.

Chief for me were the performances, starting with Viola Davis as Amanda Waller. All the other characters in the Squad, both the comic and the movie, were created by others. In the comic especially I would re-define and expand on them but they were established characters. Amanda Waller was my creation and Viola Davis embodied her to perfection. I was happy when she was cast, I was delighted when I saw her in the trailers, and I was ecstatic when I saw her in the film. Davis has Amanda’s voice, her look, and her attitude. I was delighted at the after-party when I got a chance to see her face-to-face and tell her how much I enjoyed her performance.

Next up is Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn. She is sexy, innocent, funny, lethal, crazy and dangerous. And she’s a thief – she steals just about every scene she’s in.

Let’s look at Will Smith as Deadshot. Some folks have objected that he’s not my Deadshot. No, he isn’t and that’s just fine by me. My Deadshot was not the character as he had been created or portrayed prior to my appropriating him for the Squad. Gail Simone’s version was not exactly my version either. You don’t expect two actors who play the same character in different versions to be identical so why expect those versions in different stories to be identical? Smith did a great job – intense, cynical, with a weak spot for his daughter (although I thought their last scene together had a disturbing element). Smith is a fine actor and one of the world’s biggest stars; he sure as hell wasn’t slumming here and he made Deadshot his own – which is exactly what he was supposed to do.

Last paragraph, I talked about you wouldn’t expect two actors playing the same character in different stories to give identical performances. That really applies to Jared Leto as the Joker. He crafted an entirely new version of the character from the late Heath Ledger’s portrayal in The Dark Knight. That’s absolutely necessary and it’s a different look. Like Pygmalion, he creates a woman that he can love; in this case, it’s Harley Quinn. If we accept his love for her (and her love for him) as genuine, does that make him less of a sociopath? Ledger’s Joker loved no one except, perhaps, Batman. He’s no less strange or deadly but his entire plotline revolves around being re-united with Harley.

Jay Hernandez has a significant role as Diablo and I would have liked to see more of the character. He has a terrific and horrifying back-story but this is a character who is trying to do good even as (I think) he believes he is beyond redemption.

Likewise, I would have liked to see more of Jai Courtney as Boomerang. As Christopher Walken says of cowbell, you can never have too much Boomerang. He’s very much as I wrote him in the Squad – he knows what he is and he likes it. In that respect, Boomerang is very well adjusted. Which is scary.

There’s a surprising theme running through the movie; there is a lot about love. Joker and Harley’s love, yes; Deadshot’s love for his daughter; Diablo’s love (and guilt and remorse) for his family; Rick Flag (Joel Kinnaman)’s love for June Moone (Cara Delevingne) while June’s alter ego, the Enchantress, appears to love her brother. Katana (Karen Fukuhara) loves her dead husband and carries his soul in her blade (OK, a lot of the relationships are not the healthiest in this film). Even with Amanda there’s a brief phone call and there’s tenderness and love for whoever she’s speaking with. Love shapes and forms a lot of the characters and they, in turn, mold the story.

Are their problems with the film? Sure. The antagonist(s) are not well defined and, to my mind, you need a good antagonist to help define the protagonist(s). It’s the antagonist who usually sets the plot in motion and it is defined by what they want. The story is a little more generic “we have to save the world” than I usually did; I always liked having one foot squarely in reality.

I also liked having a political and/or social edge in my Squad stories. That would also give a greater feel of reality and I don’t see that here.

That said, my artistic DNA is all over the place. This is The Dirty Dozen with supervillains and that’s my concept. They did that and did it well.

I know some of the critics, both in print and online, do not like the movie. That’s okay; everyone has a right to their own opinion even when it’s wrong. My problem is that, at least with some of the media reviews, is that the critic is also tired of superhero and “tentpole” films and, overtly or covertly, would like to see their end. Look, I get it – they have to see all the films out there and they must be tired of all the blockbusters.

If every superhero film is not The Dark Knight, they’ll bitch. I think that’s going on here to a certain degree. Just as I came prepared to love the movie, they came prepared to hate it.

My late wife, Kim Yale, was a movie critic for a while for a small suburban newspaper in the Chicago area and I went with her to some of the movie screenings. Don’t tell me that some of the critics didn’t come with pre-conceived attitudes to some films. I know better. I saw and heard it.

As for some of the online haters – if a film doesn’t fit their pre-conceived notion, it is wrong. Female Ghostbusters, a black Deadshot, Ben Affleck as Batman (Affleck, by the way, does cameos as both Batman and Bruce Wayne in Suicide Squad and is terrific) – these are all sins and must be decried.

Give me a frelling break.

Look, you can be the most important critic on Suicide Squad. In this case, your voice is your money. You decide if you want to see the movie and then go. If you like it, tell others. I guess you could also tell them if you didn’t like it but you don’t have to. I won’t mind.

If the film is financially successful (and, from what I’ve seen as this review is being written, it’s on track for a pretty good opening weekend), then Warners will be encouraged to do a sequel. And I hope they do. They made a good film this time and I believe they’ll do it even better next time around.

It’s your call.



I haven't seen the film yet (hoping to tomorrow or sometime next week; life is busy), but the diversity was something I always really appreciated about the film leading up to it.

So, it's been a couple days, what did you think of the film?

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/LIGHT SIDE POINTS PLEASE\
‎Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

LivingBrain
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 06:57:02 PM »

So, it's been a couple days, what did you think of the film?

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm aiming for either today or tomorrow! I've been recovering from some minor surgery and working so I haven't had the most free time, but as soon as I see it I'll be returning right to this thread.  Grin
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Darth Knox
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 11:35:58 PM »

i just came back from watching it and have posted my now traditional non-spoiler review. Overall verdict - i liked it, but it had some issues with the plot and the villain. but the acting from the main characters was great.
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Dauntless Seven
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2016, 12:36:58 AM »

Hi.  Just got back from seeing the movie.  Wasn't sure about it at the beginning as it started out straight from the gate as disturbing, violent and dark.  Didn't initially see the humor that may have been present.  As the movie progressed I came to appreciate the anguish, guilt and over the top craziness of some of the characters.  Thought that Margot Robbie did an outstanding version of ballsy fruit loops Harley Quinn.  Even though I'm a gal, I have to say that MR is just so hot, even with lipstick and other makeup smeared down her face.  Jared Leto did a strong psychopathic Joker.  I wish that it was a different complex character and not the Joker, as the baseline personality of the Joker has devolved into total madness with little amusing creative hijinks.  Not sure about the need for those silver outlined teeth.  Will Smith had a strong yet predictable role which he delivers comfortably.  Carla Delevingne with her interesting eyes handled the Enchantress role good enough.  Viola Davis was well... a force that the devil would not want to be up against.  The story line had both weak and more complex sub-plots.  I liked the ending although it wasn't fair but necessary for a future 2nd movie.  The " incarcerated supervillians " eventually demonstrated more class and morals than the government/authority who as usual often represent the good guys.

Do we need another Suicide Squad movie ?  Not really but I'd still go again to see what the task team is up against next.  Also The love story of The Joker and HQ is just ramping up.  Would be interesting if they can both straighten out enough for her to have that illusion become a reality.  For them it's more likely an option for role playing and dress up night.   Wink

So if you like your violent craziness on the dark side with a side order of morality ( love/guilt ), then definitely go see this movie.  It's not a waste of time or your money.   Smiley
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LivingBrain
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 02:51:11 AM »

Finally saw it and it's frustratingly close to being acceptable, but there are some small victories that make it worth a watch.

SPOOOOOOIIIIIILLLLLLLEEEEEEEERRRRRSSSSSSSS

The story had some strong character beats, but faltered in other places. Deadshot and Harley Quinn had multiple character introductions, and Amanda Waller assembling the Squad just for "safety" at the beginning, while introducing the premise pretty well, does have an effect of opening the story without any urgency, which I think is why I see people saying it starts out slow.

To elaborate on that, the threat of the Enchantress doesn't show up until the end of act 1, which means our plot doesn't start for a solid 30ish minutes (wild estimate). Those first 30 minutes are spent on repetitive character introductions that could have been much stronger if done economically in response to the threat.

I hate to make a Marvel comparison but this is very similar to THE AVENGERS, with a shady leader of an organization assembling a team of metahumans to combat a larger threat, so I feel it's apt. THE AVENGERS opens directly with what that threat will be, and the rest of the movie before the big battle in NYC is about seeing if this team can be assembled, which is where the drama comes from. In SUICIDE SQUAD... we see the characters gathered up for little more than "precaution," then something actually happens and we can have something to drive our plot.

Talk about a late start.

As far as the direction/editing goes (it's important to lump those two together with this movie, for reasons I'll link to later)... it's great sometimes and not so great at other times, which averages out to pretty okay. It mostly gets the job done, but not always in the most interesting or effective way. It's like the director thought of how he wanted to shoot the film, and went with the first shot list/storyboards he came up with with little thought put into what exactly he wanted to communicate with the images. There are some great sequences (Joker and Harley in the chemicals vat is deliciously sensual in the most twisted way), but most of it's the bare minimum. Even the action scenes are dull, mostly sticking with medium shots or close ups rather than going wide to let us see the action. It's pretty lame, if we're going to be honest.

Furthermore, many of the needle drops are clearly meant to have the movie stay in line with the trailers. Harley's whole "the voices" exchange is most indicative of this; the background song just keeps playing with no change in volume and the whole thing just plays out like a high schooler first discovering how to use iMovie. There's no inflection in the edit, nothing to make the moment standout other than the blandest mediocrity. I really think these moments were a later decision to have the movie stay in line with what the trailers presented, which would make sense because otherwise the director would shoot the scene in order to cut to the music, rather than just laying it on top.

Some research suggests I'm not too far off: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/suicide-squads-secret-drama-rushed-916693

The villain, Enchantress, starts out being really cool and has some great creepy imagery (kudos to Ayer for that; he is a pretty talented director, and many of her moments show that), and I like how she sent the visions to the Squad of what they want (I even choked up a little), but she's bland otherwise, especially when she gets her heart. You could substitute her with other characters and get the same thing done.

As far as other antagonists go, Amanda Waller is great. Viola Davis is a phenomenal actress, bringing both strength and pathos to a despicable character, and she commands the screen whenever she arrives. This was brilliant casting, supported by a fantastic performance. (If you stay for the credits, you can even see her in a great scene with Ben Affleck; the two play really well off of each other).

As for the "heroes," the standouts are Deadshot and El Diablo. Will Smith is a true movie star, and his charisma is mostly what carries the movie. He's always funny and easily sells how much the character loves his daughter. While his character isn't as fleshed out as I want him to be (we're never given any context for his Biblical references), Smith makes up for it with pure acting ability.

Jay Hernandez makes a huge impression too. Everything about his performance makes you sympathize with Diablo; his line delivery, body language, and facial expressions are all top notch. It's a great performance, and I hope it brings him much more work in the future.

Margot Robbie is also worth mentioning, even if half of her lines fall flat (it doesn't help that the best ones were shown in the trailer; when people complain about trailers giving away the best parts of a movie this is exactly what they're talking about). However, she has one moment in the film where she shows us just how much talent she has, and that's after she believes the Joker is dead. She looks truly heartbroken, but then the Squad shows up and she quickly recomposes herself to not show weakness, even though you can still see the pain in her eyes. That's an Oscar-worthy moment right there.

Out of the rest of the actors, they're serviceable. The only one really worth mentioning is Jared Leto, but not because he's good. He's a terrible, terrible, TEEEERRRRIIIIBBBLLLEEE Joker. His performance is what a Freshman theatre major thinks of as high art. He's all surface and confection, never inhabiting the character in any way or giving him any substance. Furthermore, this surface is weak. He's never threatening; he's just a 13-year-old who just discovered THE KILLING JOKE for the first time and tries to imitate it as much as he can, but his idea of an intimidating looks stops short at the wide-eyed stare of a sloth on acid. He's easily the worst Joker we've ever had.

So, I've listed a lot of bad things about the movie, but I want to emphasize the good parts, which are Will Smith, Jay Hernandez, Viola Davis, and Margot Robbie. They carry the movie and it's because of them that, for the first time in any DCEU film, I liked some of the characters on screen. Between MOS and BVS the only characters that made an impression were Batman and Wonder Woman, but even then I had huge issues that kept me from fully loving them. However, I instantly fell in love with Deadshot, El Diablo, Harley Quinn, and Amanda Waller, despite a few issues with a couple of them, and desperately want to see more of them. Does that mean the movie's a triumph? No. It's a first-draft screenplay rushed into production then noticeably reworked in the edit by a studio that got cold feet, but it has some great characters that make the whole thing worth it. While it's not a good movie, it's not terrible either, and it's definitely a step in the right direction for the DCEU.

So, in short, I kind of liked it, but I don't have a desire to see it again. I'm feeling a bit more hopeful about the DCEU though, so that's a good thing.  Smiley

Let's see if JUSTICE LEAGUE can keep it going.
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I like movies, Spider-Man, and lightsabers.

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My username and avatar may be of a villain, but I like Light Side points.

scifidude79
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 05:58:47 PM »

Sorry to necro a bit, but as this just got a Blu-Ray release recently, I figured it's time to talk about it again.  Plus, as it was in the "New Releases" area of our movie section last night, I just impulse bought it.  And, I have to say, I'm glad I did.

Suicide Squad is a comic I've never read.  Aside from knowing of some of the characters (mainly Harley Quinn, Deadshot and Killer Croc) from other comics, I didn't know much about it.  So, I went in expecting nothing and was pleasantly surprised at how good it actually is.  Now, I should say that I watched the Extended cut, which is 11 minutes longer, so I don't know what all it contains that the Theatrical cut doesn't, and I don't know if they changed the order of any scenes like they did with BvS, but I don't get the hate.  I've got to say that I like that we're jumping into the Batman universe 20 years in this time.  This gives us the opportunity to jump right in with characters that already exist in this universe and don't need long introductions.  Though, the backstory elements on Deadshot and Harley were well done, well placed and really set up a great idea of how the characters go where they are.  Margot Robbie and Will Smith really brought their A games and are the most talked about people, but I think Jay Hernandez deserves props for playing Diablo, a complex character who knows and hates what he is, but was still willing to use his powers to help people and even sacrifice himself for the good of the squad and for the world in general.  I liked Adawale Akinnuoye-Agbaje as Killer Croc, I thought he nailed the character quite well, though he usually does put on a good performance.  I like that his request after everything ended was nothing more than a TV.  That was cool.  I liked Jared Leto's Joker more than I thought I might, though the silver teeth and tats were a bit much. (I think the story there is his teeth were supposed to have all been knocked out by Batman at one point or another along the way) But, he was very much a comic version of the character after the more realistic version that Christopher Nolan and Heath Ledger gave us.  Anyway, I thought pretty much everyone did a good job.

Plot wise, it's your pretty standard comic fare.  Super baddies want to do bad things and destroy the world, so we put together a squad of villains to take them down.  I don't get why people are so harsh on the dialog, it wasn't bad to me.  The action was good, and the movie had decent flow.

Anywho, that's my verdict.  It's good and enjoyable, I'll watch it again.  It's not Batman v Superman: Ultimate Edition good, but it's right behind it.  Ironically, BvS and Suicide Squad were both blasted by critics and viewers alike, while Captain America: Civil War is praised.  Yet, I put CA: Civil War behind these films on my "Like" list.  Now, Deadpool is still my favorite comic film of the year, but BvS is right behind it, then Suicide Squad and then CA: Civil War.  To me, Civil War has the least plot, the worst dialog and virtually no character building.  BvS has a much deeper (though similar) plot and much more character development, and Suicide Squad has loads of character development and a decent plot.  And Deadpool is just a masterpiece.  So, that's my verdict of comic films of 2016.  I still haven't seen X-Men: Apocalypse.
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