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Author Topic: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Spoilers and Discussion Thread.  (Read 51752 times)
Landen Se-Sentien
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« Reply #135 on: December 28, 2016, 07:59:26 PM »

Hmm... Well, if we know the T.E.L.L. (Time Elevation Latitude Longitude) of the plane, which we would due to instrumentations, we can use simple mathematics to narrow down the search to probably a five square kilometer area, which is not that difficult to comb over with a regular number of searchers.

But you don't. He didn't know where they ran off to. Nice try.  Smiley
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« Reply #136 on: December 28, 2016, 08:03:47 PM »

Right in all those points. And, he verifies to Luke that there was still good in him. His eyes aren't yellow in the end, etc.
His eyes weren't yellow when he was crying after killing the separatist leaders, either.

Quote
It's just like his turn to the DS. How can one act signal a complete change in ideology? One act didn't. He always walked the edge. Sometimes he was pulled to the Light, and sometimes he was pulled to the Dark, because he always acted more out of emotion than rational thought or logic. Because of this, some of his acts were noble, honorable, and good, while others were evil and hurtful. His last act, though, was fueled by his love and willingness to sacrifice himself to save someone. That's the Jedi in him that was never fully driven away, much like the darkness was never fully driven away in his youth. Had he survived, who knows.

In the end, though, he finished on the Light Side.
What a perfectly good waste of a Sith. Tongue

Lucas is full of himself and doesn't have an understanding of the word "balance."

I'm of the firm belief that Anakin was fulfilling the prophecy when he turned to the Dark Side and started killing Jedi. A true balance to the Force would have been precisely two Jedi and two Sith, and at first, it was (Vader, Palpy, Ben, and Yoda). Later it becomes even more balanced because Ben and Yoda die, then Vader sacrifices himself to take out Palpy. This would have left Luke as the only Force User. Even though he said "I am a Jedi, like my father before me," he wasn't really a Jedi because he didn't go through all the indoctrination and stuff that Force Sensitives did. It's like knowing how to design a house and calling yourself an architect without ever having gone through school and certification.

But nooooo, they had to go crazy with the idea of Jedi surviving Order 66 and the subsequent purge, both pre and now post Disney. Seriously, the number of survivors makes me wonder exactly how Vader was so trusted by the Emperor if he couldn't accomplish a single task. It's approaching Superman levels of ludicrousness ("I'm the only survivor of the planet Krypton... Except for my cousin, a deranged psychopath, a genetically modified killing machine, an AI that likes to kill everything, a fascist dictator, his henchmen, a couple of explorers, these guys over here, those guys over there, and..." Come on now. There are apparently enough Kryptonian survivors for a varied enough gene pool to restart the damned civilization, but I digress...).
Yeah........




This made way more sense. But the "good" guys can't possibly be expected to play on a level field. Hence why the Sith only need 2....the Jedi are a bunch of corrupt whiners. Reminds me of another group... Roll Eyes

I actually really liked Cassian by the end of the movie. At the beggining of the movie I was really mad that they did that to his character, but then they fixed it.
He was way too.......WWII French-resistance-esque for my taste. It just came across cliché.

When they talk about balance, it's always from the Jedi perspective, and it's always Jedi talking about it. That will always mean a lack of darkness. That is their definition of balance. It's not meant to be like measuring scales. Kind of like how Palpatine talks about having peace and security while blowing up planets. That's his idea of peace and security. All of his dissidents are eliminated.

And, finding single individuals who are trying desperately to hide, knowing they are hunted when, "there are so many uncharted settlements," while also trying to build an empire and the ultimate weapon would be a little difficult when you think of the size of a galaxy.

Have someone fly over Texas and throw a rock out of the plane. Now, you go out on foot and find that rock. Good luck.
It's called a spy network.

Spy: "Lord Vader, I saw some crazy $#!% going down. I think it might be a Jedi."
Vader: "Good work."
Spy: "<ahem> Payment?"
Vader: "<ahem> Not killing you."
Spy: "Oh right." <nervously chuckles>

Hmm... Well, if we know the T.E.L.L. (Time Elevation Latitude Longitude) of the plane, which we would due to instrumentations, we can use simple mathematics to narrow down the search to probably a five square kilometer area, which is not that difficult to comb over with a regular number of searchers.
Also yes.

But you don't. He didn't know where they ran off to. Nice try.  Smiley
<AHEM> Spy network?
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Landen Se-Sentien
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« Reply #137 on: December 28, 2016, 08:09:19 PM »

His eyes weren't yellow when he was crying after killing the separatist leaders, either.

Probably due to his remorse. Just like they weren't yellow when he saw Padme. His love for her dominated his thoughts. Again, it's all part of his walking the edge and being pulled in two different directions.

Spy network:
Because we all know how trusty those can be. Roll Eyes
And, do you think the Jedi would walk around doing all sorts of crazy $#!+?
And, there are still "so many uncharted settlements."
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ithekro
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« Reply #138 on: December 28, 2016, 08:15:52 PM »

Numbers of surviving Jedi by the number of known systems verse the total population of those systems and the number of spies and enforcers actively searching for said Jedi.  Finding less than 100 surviving Jedi over the course of say 20 years across millions if not billions of star systems with trillions of residents is going to be difficult.  Instead of a needle in a haystack it becomes finding a specific atom in the needle after finding it in the haystack, after searching the entire planet for the correct haystack.
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« Reply #139 on: December 28, 2016, 08:25:45 PM »

Probably due to his remorse. Just like they weren't yellow when he saw Padme. His love for her dominated his thoughts. Again, it's all part of his walking the edge and being pulled in two different directions.

But after the whole back-fired lightning incident, Sidious's eyes were constantly yellow.

Spy network:
Because we all know how trusty those can be. Roll Eyes
And, do you think the Jedi would walk around doing all sorts of crazy $#!+?
And, there are still "so many uncharted settlements."
[/quote]
You just need to have something they want. Y'know?.....like allowing their continued existence.

Numbers of surviving Jedi by the number of known systems verse the total population of those systems and the number of spies and enforcers actively searching for said Jedi.  Finding less than 100 surviving Jedi over the course of say 20 years across millions if not billions of star systems with trillions of residents is going to be difficult.  Instead of a needle in a haystack it becomes finding a specific atom in the needle after finding it in the haystack, after searching the entire planet for the correct haystack.

Those idiots in the FO managed to find 1 droid in only a matter of hours...



followed by....

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Landen Se-Sentien
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« Reply #140 on: December 28, 2016, 08:33:19 PM »

But after the whole back-fired lightning incident, Sidious's eyes were constantly yellow.

Spy network:
Because we all know how trusty those can be. Roll Eyes
And, do you think the Jedi would walk around doing all sorts of crazy $#!+?
And, there are still "so many uncharted settlements."

You just need to have something they want. Y'know?.....like allowing their continued existence.
Those idiots in the FO managed to find 1 droid in only a matter of hours...

Sidious no longer needed to control his anger and rage. It's the fire inside that burns to turn their eyes yellow.

From wookieepedia:

"The eyes of some Force-sensitives changed from their original colors to shades of fiery red-rimmed yellow when they were deeply immersed in the dark side of the Force."

So if Palpatine, one of the greatest users of Force stealth, needed to hide his signature, he would also need to quench the fire and allow his eyes to be their natural color.
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« Reply #141 on: December 28, 2016, 08:36:36 PM »

You just need to have something they want. Y'know?.....like allowing their continued existence.

This is a very important point. As I recall (at least pre-Disney), a settlement or group found to be harboring Jedi during that time would be considered enemies of the Empire en masse and treated accordingly. That means imprisonment if you were lucky with immediate execution being the preferred punishment. Recall what the Empire did to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru for simply unwittingly purchasing droids that were being sought by the Empire.
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Landen Se-Sentien
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« Reply #142 on: December 28, 2016, 08:40:54 PM »

This is a very important point. As I recall (at least pre-Disney), a settlement or group found to be harboring Jedi during that time would be considered enemies of the Empire en masse and treated accordingly. That means imprisonment if you were lucky with immediate execution being the preferred punishment. Recall what the Empire did to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru for simply unwittingly purchasing droids that were being sought by the Empire.

But there were also places with little to no imperial presence.

I'm just saying it's possible to easily explain why some were missed. And, Vader did a pretty good job. By ROTJ, Luke was the only one left. Even Yoda acknowledged that.
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« Reply #143 on: December 28, 2016, 08:58:20 PM »

By the time of Rebels it seems there are maybe five to ten Jedi left, with most being Padawans and padawans of padawans.  Vader is starting to want them alive in his continued effort to find Obi-wan Kenobi.  He doesn't know that Yoda lives, even Palpatine isn't sure about Yada. 

Rogue One shows that while the Rebellion can function, they really need a Jedi to rally behind to keep it unified.  Also in case of Vader.  But on that count, there really isn't anyone good enough to really stop him.  Kenobi was there only hope, until they get a new hope.
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« Reply #144 on: December 28, 2016, 09:12:50 PM »

Sidious no longer needed to control his anger and rage. It's the fire inside that burns to turn their eyes yellow.
I interpreted his form of stealth as a variant of the Force ability, in which a Sith can maintain a normal appearance in spite of the usual ravages of the Dark Side. Primarily the ash grey skin and yellow eyes. I always believed that the eyes just stuck after prolonged use. Like how your parents warned you about crossing your eyes....


But there were also places with little to no imperial presence.

I'm just saying it's possible to easily explain why some were missed. And, Vader did a pretty good job. By ROTJ, Luke was the only one left. Even Yoda acknowledged that.
As much as it makes me cringe, SWR is canon. Therefore, Vader had his toady squad of Inqs.

Also, despite being relegated to "Legend", I recommend reading Cloak of Deception and Darth Plagues. They paints a brilliant picture into how wide spread the Sith had their fingers in the unseen affairs of the galaxy. Order 66 was merely the lynch pin. The system of underground intel was well established before Palpatine became chancellor.
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« Reply #145 on: December 28, 2016, 09:27:16 PM »

I interpreted his form of stealth as a variant of the Force ability, in which a Sith can maintain a normal appearance in spite of the usual ravages of the Dark Side. Primarily the ash grey skin and yellow eyes. I always believed that the eyes just stuck after prolonged use. Like how your parents warned you about crossing your eyes....

I now have this mental image of Plaguis and Sidious...

Plaguis: "Now now, Sidious, don't let your eyes go yellow or they'll get stuck that way, and then how will you do what needs to be done?"

Sidious: "But, Maaaaaasteeeeerrrrr..."

Plaguis: "Don't you 'but master' me young apprentice! Now un-yellow those eyes right this second or there will be no dessert after supper tonight!"

Sidious (sulking): "Fiiiiiiiine." *unyellows his eyes*

Plaguis: "That's better. Now, let's go get us a Jedi to kill. Won't that be fun?"

Sidious: "YAAAAAAAAY!!!"
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« Reply #146 on: December 28, 2016, 10:14:14 PM »

I now have this mental image of Plaguis and Sidious...

Plaguis: "Now now, Sidious, don't let your eyes go yellow or they'll get stuck that way, and then how will you do what needs to be done?"

Sidious: "But, Maaaaaasteeeeerrrrr..."

Plaguis: "Don't you 'but master' me young apprentice! Now un-yellow those eyes right this second or there will be no dessert after supper tonight!"

Sidious (sulking): "Fiiiiiiiine." *unyellows his eyes*

Plaguis: "That's better. Now, let's go get us a Jedi to kill. Won't that be fun?"

Sidious: "YAAAAAAAAY!!!"
Post of the day. +1
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« Reply #147 on: December 29, 2016, 03:39:06 AM »

My initial impression was that it was much easier for me to care for Jyn Erso than it was for Rey.  Jyn was a lot of what I hoped Rey would be--I felt like we saw more evidence of the trauma she went through and there was no hint ever of her being a Mary Sue like Rey is to me.

I had done such a good job of avoiding spoilers that the deaths in the end all caught me by surprise and it was like a real punch in the gut.  I am also a big fan of how the flaw in the Death Star was "legitimized," and like others, I enjoyed the hidden shout-out to General Syndulla. Wink

I am going to have to disagree strongly with Noctis on the score given that I have never been a John Williams fan at all--so for me, I was VERY glad to see something with certain familiar themes, but different.  And I have also been a Michael Giacchino fan for a while, since he started his work on the Star Trek series, to the point where I have seen two of his scores performed by a live orchestra and hope to see Beyond and now Rogue One with the same orchestra in the next few years.  I'm on the road right now and away from the laptop with my CD burner, but I have a CD of the score just waiting to be ripped onto my computer and phone and I am very impatient to get home and get that done so I can listen.

I was not a fan of CGI Tarkin at all: while the tech is improving somewhat, they still have not found a way to overcome the uncanny valley problem.  The movement isn't right--too "fluid" in the face and too jerky in the body, and the textures too perfect and out of step with the grittiness of the rest of the cinematic technique, which had a greater focus on practical effects than, say, the prequels.  I saw the same issue with the textures with CGI Leia, but that scene was mercifully brief.  IMO Tarkin would not have stood out so much if they had kept his appearances FAR briefer and kept his back turned or had him out of focus most of the time.

That said, to me the CGI actors were the only real fail of the movie.  Otherwise I was satisfied and hope to see it again soon.  And...sorry, Noctis, but I do think that score is going to get a lot of play time as a part of my Giacchino collection. Wink
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« Reply #148 on: December 29, 2016, 03:55:41 AM »

My initial impression was that it was much easier for me to care for Jyn Erso than it was for Rey.  Jyn was a lot of what I hoped Rey would be--I felt like we saw more evidence of the trauma she went through and there was no hint ever of her being a Mary Sue like Rey is to me.

I had done such a good job of avoiding spoilers that the deaths in the end all caught me by surprise and it was like a real punch in the gut.  I am also a big fan of how the flaw in the Death Star was "legitimized," and like others, I enjoyed the hidden shout-out to General Syndulla. Wink

I am going to have to disagree strongly with Noctis on the score given that I have never been a John Williams fan at all--so for me, I was VERY glad to see something with certain familiar themes, but different.  And I have also been a Michael Giacchino fan for a while, since he started his work on the Star Trek series, to the point where I have seen two of his scores performed by a live orchestra and hope to see Beyond and now Rogue One with the same orchestra in the next few years.  I'm on the road right now and away from the laptop with my CD burner, but I have a CD of the score just waiting to be ripped onto my computer and phone and I am very impatient to get home and get that done so I can listen.

I was not a fan of CGI Tarkin at all: while the tech is improving somewhat, they still have not found a way to overcome the uncanny valley problem.  The movement isn't right--too "fluid" in the face and too jerky in the body, and the textures too perfect and out of step with the grittiness of the rest of the cinematic technique, which had a greater focus on practical effects than, say, the prequels.  I saw the same issue with the textures with CGI Leia, but that scene was mercifully brief.  IMO Tarkin would not have stood out so much if they had kept his appearances FAR briefer and kept his back turned or had him out of focus most of the time.

That said, to me the CGI actors were the only real fail of the movie.  Otherwise I was satisfied and hope to see it again soon.  And...sorry, Noctis, but I do think that score is going to get a lot of play time as a part of my Giacchino collection. Wink

Got to remember, Rey's full story hasn't been told yet...
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« Reply #149 on: December 29, 2016, 03:57:32 AM »

And that certainly is true, but at this point she is most certainly in a deficit with me that it will take something very impressive to dig out from.
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