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Author Topic: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Spoilers and Discussion Thread.  (Read 4003 times)
Landen Se-Sentien
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Jedi Shadow


« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2016, 12:49:22 PM »

In Rogue One we see the Empire is stealing kyber crystals from old Jedi and other Force related temples, and in Rebels we see the Empire is hunting for other Jedi temples as well once they follow the Rebels to the one on Lothal.  From the Ahsoka novel we know that the Empire has locked down and is likely strip mining Illum (which may eventually have become Starkiller Base).  In the novel Catalyst we are basically told the Empire took all the kyber crystals from the Jedi's lightsabers in the Jedi Temple and used them during the experimental stages of working out how to make the Superlaser.  We know from the Clone Wars and Rebels that rare huge kyber crystals can be found and are what the Death Star was originally designed to use.  We know there were experiments to make synthetic crystals for the Death Star but these seemed to have failed, or are just not up to the standards of real crystals for the Empire's purposes.  

So yes the Empire steals as many kyber crystals as they can find and strip mines worlds known to have such crystals in an effort to find more.  We don't know just how many kyber crystal weapon based projects the Empire really has going on.  Could be a few dozen for all we know, if they aren't just using them in all their turbo lasers and the like to make Imperial weapons superior to all the Rebel's old Clone Wars era knock off weapons.

As for the colors and such, I still think the idea of the Sith and Jedi using the Force to craft the crystal into their lightsaber is appropriate and basically what the old canon has going on anyway, even with the synthetic versions the Sith or Jedi used the Force in the crafting.   The Jedi use the Force to harmonize the crystal to themselves via the Will of the Force, so it comes out whatever color suits them.  The Sith dominate the Force to their will and order (as in arrange things into a specific pattern) the crystal into a specific powerful pattern which turns out to make the blades red every time.  The Jedi see this as unnatural and will attempt to "correct" this if they get their hands on these crystals by harmonizing with them if they make a new blade with them.   Remember many things in Star Wars are based on point of view and when it comes to kyber crystals, we only really see it from the Jedi's point of view.  It seems just slapping one into a lightsaber without at least checking it in the Force could result in the weapon's destruction and possible death of the user.  Even one that has be tuned might not be turned for your saber as every hilt is unique and handcrafted by the user so the power supply, diameter or the hilt, and all the other electronics and parts might not work with just any crystal without first at least checking to make sure the crystal doesn't just shoot the bland at a 170 degree angle from the power source and burn a hole in your hilt on activation.   We see the Giant rare crystal just blast powerful bolts in random directions when hit with blaster fire in the Clone Wars.  That it took the Empire 20 years or so to figure out how to get these crystals to fire as the Superlaser based on ancient Sith weaponry is impressive, especially since they had to use large and small crystals and tune it so it didn't blow itself up like one of the early prototypes did.

I'm fine with the idea of them saying a crystal "singing" to a specific force sensitive. It keeps a little mysticism there, and it explains why, in TCW, some padawans see a crystal while others don't.

I'm fine with them saying a crystal is colorless, and it gets tuned to a specific color based on that user's Force alignment. Blue for warriors, green for diplomats, yellow, red, etc. I'm also ok with them saying the crystal will stay that color. It explains why the Graflex is blue and will always be blue, even though Luke's crystal color is obviously green, but the Graflex never changes, even after Anakin turns. It also explains why, in TCW, all of the crystals we see are a pale, translucent blue. I think they're supposed to be colorless, but they had to make them visible. I do prefer the old explanation better, though. The color of the crystal determines the color of the blade. It's much simpler. But, they had to answer that TCW question. It can also explain how a Jedi could switch colors later in life if they crafted a new saber. Say, going from a blue to a green. They're more of a diplomat, now. Although the artists should've just colored the frigging things. Again, it's just simpler.

I do not, do not, do not like them saying that all lightsaber crystals are kyber crystals. There are no synthetics anymore, nor can you use other crystals to make a lightsaber. How did Luke end up with a crystal? And don't give me the, it's from Qui-Gon's saber. I don't think Obi-Wan and Yoda wouldve made an effort to go get that extra saber. Get in, decode, gather intel, and get out. Moving on. How did Sith get crystals if all of the Kyber caves were under Jedi control? Wouldn't stealing them or killing Jedi signalled their arrival and return? What about Mace's purple crystal? How come he's the only one who has one? Oh, because he always walked between light and dark (red and blue) with his fighting style? Ok, then Anakin should've had a purple one, too. Oh, wait, he can't. OT established that already. How would other Jedi who survived get one if they needed to? With synthetic and other crystals being accepted, all of these questions are easily and neatly answered.
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I did not come to bring peace, but rather a sword, because what fellowship has light with darkness?

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Dominix v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree CG
Sentinel LE v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree BR
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Dark Liberator v3 (stunt) - Tri Cree GB
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shade_1313
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« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2016, 07:25:06 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSoViykvjUg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSoViykvjUg</a>


Also,

I want a sound font, or at the very least, that ignition sound.
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Obese Wan Kenobese
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Fretful Instigator of the Prismatic Order


« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2016, 09:27:59 PM »

In RO, we see that kyber crystal can be identified and used for laser focusing without the use of the Force. It is a rock that can be used in technology. In Heir to the Jedi, we see that the crystal(s) must be aligned within very small space in a lightsaber construction where it can't be reached via tools from the outside, thus one uses the Force to align it.

I haven't read Ahsoka yet. Just got it from the library today. But, I've read that the kyber crystals are difficult to see amidst the ice all around. I would posture that the Force can guide a patient Jedi who listens to the Force toward a kyber crystal for their lightsaber, not that a crystal will hide or choose a Hogwart-Jedi. I would also posture that a Sith is doing something to change the crystal, where a Jedi may not. This doesn't mean a Sith is doing something uniform to perfect it necessarily, though that fits old canon from Book of Sith. The color of Jedi crystals is not yet fully explained in Dis-canon. Perhaps the crystal had a color already when it 'sang'. Perhaps it responds to the Jedi who aligns it. Heir to the Jedi has an example of a purple lightsaber with three purple kyber crystals. It seemed slippery to Luke. He wasn't sure if it was rodian design by the original Jedi who owned it, or if it was the saber(or crystal) refusing him while his father's saber accepted him.
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What strength have you when you are a slave to your passions?
What power without strength of character?
To self centered rage, you will be chained.
The dark side is no victory.

The long path to peace is through balanced emotions.
The first step to gaining knowledge is recognizing your own ignorance.
Serenity is patient, not passionate satisfaction.
Find harmony by understanding chaos.
Become one with the force, which will never die.

Landen Se-Sentien
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Jedi Shadow


« Reply #168 on: December 30, 2016, 05:28:16 AM »

In TCW, we see a group of padawans gathering crystals to build their lightsabers. In the episode, as they're wandering, they individually start to hear a strange noise. The one in the group that hears the noise, because the others state they don't, also sees a crystal that is often out in the open. The others cannot see it. In that example, the Force is guiding specific individuals to specific crystals. It is very much like Harry Potter and the wands.

Again, though, I'm OK with it. I like the other version better, but I find it easy to accept, even if it's not the easiest explanation.
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Light side points please.

I did not come to bring peace, but rather a sword, because what fellowship has light with darkness?

Sabers:
Manticore (Emerald, Obsidian v4) - PO
Dominix v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree CG
Sentinel LE v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree BR
Initiate LE v4 (stunt) - GB (son's)
Dark Liberator v3 (stunt) - Tri Cree GB
Bellicose (Emerald, Obsidian v4) - SRD

Darth Xocni
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NwŻl tash


« Reply #169 on: December 30, 2016, 06:27:34 AM »

Just saw the movie.

Did NOT like the new music or lack of title crawl, though the latter is understandable.

K2SO had a really funny attitude. I love the camaraderie between Baze and Chirrut.

I went eeeeee when Vader started kicking Rebel butt.

I used the scene when Saw's Rebels attacked the transport as a weapon in my Empire vs Rebellion debates with my stepsister.

Another thing really bugged me, why did the X-Wings have TFA thrusters?
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Dzwol sh‚sotkun.
Sh‚sotjontŻ ch‚tsatul nu tyŻk.
TyŻkjontŻ ch‚tsatul nu midwan.
MidwanjontŻ ch‚tsatul nu asha.
AshajontŻ kotswinot itsu nuyak.
Wonoksh Qy‚sik nun.

"Failure and disobedience are one and the same... In the Sith tongue both translate as "treason". That is the wisdom of the ancients!"

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Overlord "Ari iv Azinimas" - BR UEHG Obsidian V4

Taegin Roan
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« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2016, 02:42:44 PM »

Did NOT like the new music or lack of title crawl, though the latter is understandable.

To me, the music just wasn't as impressive as the other movies. There should have been a title crawl, and Edwards actually showed one. It was basically the same as ANH's, but once it got the the rebels stealing the DS plans part, it started flickering and making electrical crackling sounds. The crawl was supposed to be different, and that is one of the things that a lot of people wanted to see.
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"I will do what I must." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

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"All is as the Force wills it." - Chirrut Imwe

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JediJacob
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« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2016, 05:01:18 PM »

I completely get their reasoning for no crawl though...it separates these movies from the saga films.
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shade_1313
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« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2016, 05:48:54 PM »

It may be worth noting that TCW had no title crawl for episodes, although the counter argument that the narration and video that sets the stage for each episode takes the crawl's place can also be made.

I don't know, the lack of title crawl is something that I can see both sides of, both in wanting that iconic intro, and in separating the side movies from the main episodic story.
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #173 on: December 30, 2016, 07:38:49 PM »

It may be worth noting that TCW had no title crawl for episodes, although the counter argument that the narration and video that sets the stage for each episode takes the crawl's place can also be made.

I don't know, the lack of title crawl is something that I can see both sides of, both in wanting that iconic intro, and in separating the side movies from the main episodic story.

They also had the quote though.

I too can see both sides, but I am leaning more towards the "I want it" side.
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"I will do what I must." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

"There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?" - Supreme Leader Snoke

"All is as the Force wills it." - Chirrut Imwe

l l l l l l l l l_o_lll__|   Current saber: Dominix v2                          

|_[[[[[[[[[_o_|-|   Current saber: Dark Apprentice LE v4         

[_((((((((_o_|=|   Next saber: Dark Initiate LE v4 Emerald      
(LS points appreciated)

Jev Moldara
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The Mad Professor


« Reply #174 on: December 30, 2016, 07:51:46 PM »

The title crawl isn't really necessary for Rogue One, and in fact would be rather hard to work in correctly.

Think about it... every Opening Crawl has summarized exactly what has happened prior to the film's beginning just to give the audience a bit of backstory.

The difference with Rogue One is that this movie has something that no other Star Wars movie to date has had... a HUGE timeskip right smack dab in the middle of the film.

So how do you do the opening crawl given this fifteen year time skip (assuming you don't edit the movie to remove the first part with Jyn as a kid)?

Do you explain what happened prior to the beginning of the film? That would seem rather wasteful of the opening crawl just for ten minutes of film that results in a mother being killed, a father abandoning his kid, and the kid getting rescued by a guy who sounds like he smokes three packs of cigarrettes per day, followed by a gap in time than is almost four times the time gap between RotS and R1's beginning.

Realistically, you'd need a crawl to show what happens in that fifteen years more than the four years since the Emperor took over.
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hazard502
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« Reply #175 on: January 01, 2017, 04:26:51 PM »

Some interesting perspective on Darth Vader after Roque One.


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shade_1313
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« Reply #176 on: January 01, 2017, 10:07:24 PM »

Some interesting perspective on Darth Vader after Roque One.




It's amazing how newly inserted continuity can change how you see scenes filmed forty years ago.

Think about how staggeringly relentless Vader was as he tore through those rebels, effortless, in absolute certainty.

Then think about the fight, not long after, with Obi-Wan.  It's been brought up before that he might have been a bit more hesitant and tentative with that fight because of the way his previous battle with Obi-Wan ended, all the bluster of "Now, I am the mater" aside.

Now, consider this.  What was the last planet Vader was on before that fight.

Mustafar, where he hangs around in a bacta tank with his artificial limbs not even on him.  He's suspended in it, really just his head and torso, much like Obi-Wan left him.

Now you really start to see how he could be tentative, less assertive and overbearing than he is when cutting down ordinary troopers.
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Darth Logos
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Peace is a Lie...


« Reply #177 on: January 03, 2017, 10:31:31 AM »

I'm fine with them saying a crystal is colorless, and it gets tuned to a specific color based on that user's Force alignment. Blue for warriors, green for diplomats, yellow, red, etc. I'm also ok with them saying the crystal will stay that color. It explains why the Graflex is blue and will always be blue, even though Luke's crystal color is obviously green, but the Graflex never changes, even after Anakin turns. It also explains why, in TCW, all of the crystals we see are a pale, translucent blue. I think they're supposed to be colorless, but they had to make them visible. I do prefer the old explanation better, though. The color of the crystal determines the color of the blade. It's much simpler. But, they had to answer that TCW question. It can also explain how a Jedi could switch colors later in life if they crafted a new saber. Say, going from a blue to a green. They're more of a diplomat, now. Although the artists should've just colored the frigging things. Again, it's just simpler.

I think the only reason this bull was established in TCW was so dumbass could mistake an ice shard for a crystal. Weak plot device. Angry Tongue Because in the very next episode the Wookiee and the Nautilan end up with green crystals. That's just one of many issues I had with that arc and/or series. Angry

Quote
I do not, do not, do not like them saying that all lightsaber crystals are kyber crystals. There are no synthetics anymore, nor can you use other crystals to make a lightsaber. How did Luke end up with a crystal? And don't give me the, it's from Qui-Gon's saber. I don't think Obi-Wan and Yoda wouldve made an effort to go get that extra saber. Get in, decode, gather intel, and get out. Moving on. How did Sith get crystals if all of the Kyber caves were under Jedi control? Wouldn't stealing them or killing Jedi signalled their arrival and return? What about Mace's purple crystal? How come he's the only one who has one? Oh, because he always walked between light and dark (red and blue) with his fighting style? Ok, then Anakin should've had a purple one, too. Oh, wait, he can't. OT established that already. How would other Jedi who survived get one if they needed to? With synthetic and other crystals being accepted, all of these questions are easily and neatly answered.


THANK YOU! +1


Went to go see again this weekend. Although the score failed to reflect familiar themes, I couldn't really complain about beyond it lacking in certain areas or was overdone in others. I do think they should have stuck with a crawl. It just one of those things. I understand that they were trying to be original and deviant, but throw us a frickin bone here.

However, I after the second DS firing, I was under the impression that these guys were all shot for gross incompetence.


The first shot: Nailed it.


Second shot?: Not so much. {couldn't find image} How do you miss a target like Scarif Base by 5mi, honestly? All for the sake of a tearful goodbye. (boohoo) Personally, I'd have found it to be a bigger emotional wretch to just see them instantly vaporized. No goodbyes, no resolution. Just gone. But that's me.

I am seriously liking the newest batch of blasters, particularly Jyn's. Has a modified Luger look to it.


And still oh so lovin' the Vader rampage. Awesome. (Took my CO this time. Grin)



PS: Has anyone else heard the news that George is slated to direct the sequel?
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...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion* (BR)            Emerald Mantis CE* 
Chosen One* (BR)        Shock LE* (FO)
Archon V2.1* (CG)       Dark Prophecy(BR) {Thanks Qui-Lar}
Menace CE* (BH)         Flamberge CE* (BR)
Initiate LE V2 (BR)       D Initiate V3 (CG)
Manticore CE* (SY)      Dominix LE V3 (AB)
Bellicose* (GB)            Dark Arbiter* (VA)
Dominix V4 (BR)          Emperor's Hand* (DVA)
Aeon V4 (GB)              Project:BOOYA!

Landen Se-Sentien
Shadow Sentinel of the Manticore Order
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Force Alignment: 1248
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Jedi Shadow


« Reply #178 on: January 03, 2017, 10:39:15 AM »

I feel you Logos. TCW was an all over the place mess. It's almost like they aimed to have 2-3 episodes connect to each other, but not to the previous episodes or the upcoming ones, and often not to the greater overall story they were telling. Binge watching it makes it even more apparent.
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Light side points please.

I did not come to bring peace, but rather a sword, because what fellowship has light with darkness?

Sabers:
Manticore (Emerald, Obsidian v4) - PO
Dominix v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree CG
Sentinel LE v4 (stunt) - Tri Cree BR
Initiate LE v4 (stunt) - GB (son's)
Dark Liberator v3 (stunt) - Tri Cree GB
Bellicose (Emerald, Obsidian v4) - SRD

Darth Calon
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Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy.


« Reply #179 on: January 03, 2017, 11:44:55 AM »

I loved TCW.
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Sabers I own:
Bellicose RGBA and Obsidian V4 sound
Standard Issue v3 staff in CG and GB with Obsidian v3 sound
Phantasm Initiate LE in VA and AB stunt

Next saber:
Undecided

Wishlist:
Menace SE staff, Consular, Guardian, Fulcrum and Lost Gray, Scorpion, Electrum Wind, Graflex, Chosen One, Flamberge or Renegade

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