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Author Topic: Would a clone of Vader or Luke still have the force?  (Read 9347 times)
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2017, 06:11:19 PM »

There is always the possibility they put that story back in somehow. Or at least some of it. I understand why they made the books Non cannon. Some of the stories got in the way of them telling their story and they are trying to avoid continuity problems. And if I remember correctly if they kept the books canon then we wouldn't have Chewie in TFA. Now this is coming form someone who only read one Star Wars book so it doesn't affect me as much as avid Star Wars readers. I see both sides because it annoys me a little that SOTE isn't shared in the same universe anymore and that's not even the best story the EU as to offer, but to me it is heavily connect with the OT and like taking away one of the movies.
Awww. Boo-friggity-hoo. That just shows how weak their storytelling is. And if TFA is an example of putting their "best foot forward," then I'm afraid the franchise is doomed.

Mara Jade was killed by Darth Caedus (aka Jacen Solo). Jacen has already been replaced with that emo-Sith-wannabe Kylo Ren. And Jaina was effectively replaced by Rey. Han was turned into a pansy, and......well Carrie (God rest her) was in no shape to portray a Jedi. But Force forbid that they sacrifice a throwback like using OG cast for telling a better story.

SOTE?

Take it from someone that has been reading for years. They got rid of some legendary stories and characters. They clear cut the forest in order to avoid some mild pruning. Or worse, they bought the Mona Lisa and decided that her smile needed changing. Angry
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ithekro
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2017, 07:26:11 PM »

And there is still about 30 years worth of story telling potential now in the revised canon between ROTJ and TFA.  Plenty of room for adventures for the Heroes of Yavin.  Just the potental for using the EU this late in the game instead of TFA was zero.  Too much backstory and characters that the audiance would be expected to know and no longer having a resonable PoV character for the audiance to introduce the new situations or characters because even the Solo children would. Know everyone.
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2017, 07:47:44 PM »

And there is still about 30 years worth of story telling potential now in the revised canon between ROTJ and TFA.  Plenty of room for adventures for the Heroes of Yavin.  Just the potental for using the EU this late in the game instead of TFA was zero.  Too much backstory and characters that the audiance would be expected to know and no longer having a resonable PoV character for the audiance to introduce the new situations or characters because even the Solo children would. Know everyone.
I can't speak for others, but mysterious back story drives me to read more books. Ep3: Who TF is Darth Plagueis? IDK but there's a book with that name, could be worth a read. R1: lets name drop Gen. Syndulla for the fans of the cartoons but wait....not everybody knows who he is or why he's important. Personally, I never cared for the character. Or let's make Saw Gerrera a critical character. I saw R1 a week before I saw that arc in TCW, so I didn't know who he was in the movie. Didn't change anything. He was still a bat-shell crazy old freedom fighter.

I also heard that they wanted to make an effort to resurrect Revan in Rey's Force vision, but opted against using his most iconic visage in his Sith garb. Plus, again, the movie-only SW fans wouldn't know who he is or why he's important.

Sadly, not everyone that falls into the category of "Star Wars Fan" gets as deep as we do into the backstory. If it isn't spelled out in the movies, they don't bother. And then there are characters like Aurra Sing, who make a cameo in one movie, then all of a sudden the buzz forces backstory to be generated. (May have existed before cameo, but unknown to me.)


My biggest problem with what Disney is doing, is that they are taking old stories and characters, screwing up beloved stories, and calling them new.
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2017, 07:59:56 PM »

I can't speak for others, but mysterious back story drives me to read more books. Ep3: Who TF is Darth Plagueis? IDK but there's a book with that name, could be worth a read. R1: lets name drop Gen. Syndulla for the fans of the cartoons but wait....not everybody knows who he is or why he's important. Personally, I never cared for the character. Or let's make Saw Gerrera a critical character. I saw R1 a week before I saw that arc in TCW, so I didn't know who he was in the movie. Didn't change anything. He was still a bat-shell crazy old freedom fighter.

I also heard that they wanted to make an effort to resurrect Revan in Rey's Force vision, but opted against using his most iconic visage in his Sith garb. Plus, again, the movie-only SW fans wouldn't know who he is or why he's important.

Sadly, not everyone that falls into the category of "Star Wars Fan" gets as deep as we do into the backstory. If it isn't spelled out in the movies, they don't bother. And then there are characters like Aurra Sing, who make a cameo in one movie, then all of a sudden the buzz forces backstory to be generated. (May have existed before cameo, but unknown to me.)


My biggest problem with what Disney is doing, is that they are taking old stories and characters, screwing up beloved stories, and calling them new.

Not arguing with you on any of these points, just a few questions and clarifications.

I'm pretty sure Gen. Syndulla was in referrence to Hera. It is 5 years after the start of SWR, so it could very easily be Hera. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, but I don't think so.

The thing about Saw is that you don't need to have watched TCW. None of my family who has watched R1 has seen TCW except me. It didn't bother them.

Which movie Aurra Sing make a cameo appearance in? I am really interested to know, because I have never seen her before.
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2017, 08:53:41 PM »

Not arguing with you on any of these points, just a few questions and clarifications.

I'm pretty sure Gen. Syndulla was in referrence to Hera. It is 5 years after the start of SWR, so it could very easily be Hera. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, but I don't think so.

The thing about Saw is that you don't need to have watched TCW. None of my family who has watched R1 has seen TCW except me. It didn't bother them.

Which movie Aurra Sing make a cameo appearance in? I am really interested to know, because I have never seen her before.
Nope. Gen Syndulla was established in TCW, and then Hera was a tie back to him in SWR. Then they brought the general into Rebels. So it's a direct character link. If Hera had risen through the ranks, she would have inevitably become an admiral, since she's fleet and not infantry. Although, it does raise the question as to why Gen. Calrisian led the fleet against the DS2. Unless his title was acquired through ground missions. But there wasn't a lot of time in between Eps 5 & 6. IDK.

That's what I mean. The character could have been a random Ugnaught that nobody had ever heard of, and the story wouldn't have changed.


In my absolute favoritest scene ever. But from what I know of the character, she had never appeared before this scene, was on screen for literally 5sec (if that) and gains Boba Fett level prestige.



To the OP, sorry for highjacking your thread. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss along the line of cloned Force wielders?
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buddygroove
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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2017, 09:43:39 PM »

Quote
To the OP, sorry for highjacking your thread. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss along the line of cloned Force wielders?


No worries. I enjoy these conversations. I felt this was a dead thread anyway until now so I'm glad it's a live again. btw SOTE is Shadows Of The Empire.

The thing I think we should take into consideration about the direction Disney is going in is that people like Abrams are most likely huge fans of the Star Wars franchise and probably read all the books as well. I could be wrong about that, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they didn't like the idea of making the EU none canon, but felt they had to in order to continue/refresh the main story of Star Wars as well as move away from the PT, but still allow it to exist in canon.

My only problems with TFA is that the Han Solo and Ben Solo parts felt rushed and that maybe they should have started the story at a different time in their lives. Though The Last Jedi could change my opinion on that.  I didn't feel much for Han and Leia losing their son to the dark side because we don't really have any scenes with them. It was like coming into the middle of the movie, which I suppose ANH was the same way.

But I suppose as long as they don't contradict any of the good story lines of the better EU books then we could all pretend it's still part of the universe.
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 04:10:55 PM »

No worries. I enjoy these conversations. I felt this was a dead thread anyway until now so I'm glad it's a live again. btw SOTE is Shadows Of The Empire.
Ah, yes. I was epically disappointed when I found out the 7,8 & 9 would not be following the OC time line, and even more disappointed when it came to light that they would be a cheap knock off. [Original] New Order [Disney] First Order. [Original] Darth Caedus wants to follow in granddad's footsteps. [Disney] Kylo Ren wants to follow in granddad's footsteps. Way to think outside the box. Roll Eyes

Quote
The thing I think we should take into consideration about the direction Disney is going in is that people like Abrams are most likely huge fans of the Star Wars franchise and probably read all the books as well. I could be wrong about that, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they didn't like the idea of making the EU none canon, but felt they had to in order to continue/refresh the main story of Star Wars as well as move away from the PT, but still allow it to exist in canon.
I know I assign a lot of blame to Abrams for the travesty that 7 turned out to be, I know it's not all his fault. I know he didn't write the story and the screen play. But he did do crap like letting Poe live. The story I got was that Isaac griped that he had done a string of movies where his character died at the beginning, so they altered the story so that he lived. Boo hoo. Daniel Craig took the role of a nameless faceless guard, just so he could be in the movie. That's fandom.

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My only problems with TFA is that the Han Solo and Ben Solo parts felt rushed and that maybe they should have started the story at a different time in their lives. Though The Last Jedi could change my opinion on that.  I didn't feel much for Han and Leia losing their son to the dark side because we don't really have any scenes with them. It was like coming into the middle of the movie, which I suppose ANH was the same way.
But ANH told a whole story, and enough of a back story to make sense. TFA as full of inconsistencies. Like Han: "Whah. My son turned out to be an emo bad guy. I guess I'm going to run away instead of being a parent and giving him a sound whoopin' and sending him to his room." {Of course that may have been a satire on modern parenting. Tongue} The New Republic: "Nobody likes the First Order, or wants anything to do with them, but we can't fight them directly so we'll put forth minimal funding toward a rag tag resistance group that is hopelessly out matched." {Can't give my opinion on this w/o breaking rules. } Luke: "I'm the greatest current Jedi, yet I can't outmatch a whiny emo and his bully cronies even with a bunch of trainee Force wielders. My school got wrecked, so I'm going to leave a map to my location, which is constantly changing because I'm searching (which means I don't know where it is) for the first Jedi temple. The sliver I broke out matches no known systems, yet I know it well enough to chart it's location." Inconsistent. Angry

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But I suppose as long as they don't contradict any of the good story lines of the better EU books then we could all pretend it's still part of the universe.
It is my sincerest hope that they eventually reinstate some of the better OC stories, that don't have impact on the movies. Like the TOR books, and better still the Bane Trilogy. But they won't primarily due to how they cocked up the saber lore. "Dark Siders can't get buddy-buddy with kyber crystals. So they have to steal them." Phooey. Fine, if Sith can't have kyber crystals, then they get lignan crystals, which are red.

And don't even get me started on the BS they've turned holocrons into.
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buddygroove
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 05:32:36 PM »

Quote
But ANH told a whole story, and enough of a back story to make sense. TFA as full of inconsistencies. Like Han: "Whah. My son turned out to be an emo bad guy. I guess I'm going to run away instead of being a parent and giving him a sound whoopin' and sending him to his room." {Of course that may have been a satire on modern parenting. Tongue} The New Republic: "Nobody likes the First Order, or wants anything to do with them, but we can't fight them directly so we'll put forth minimal funding toward a rag tag resistance group that is hopelessly out matched." {Can't give my opinion on this w/o breaking rules. } Luke: "I'm the greatest current Jedi, yet I can't outmatch a whiny emo and his bully cronies even with a bunch of trainee Force wielders. My school got wrecked, so I'm going to leave a map to my location, which is constantly changing because I'm searching (which means I don't know where it is) for the first Jedi temple. The sliver I broke out matches no known systems, yet I know it well enough to chart it's location." Inconsistent. Angry


I think some of what went on with Luke and looking all his students could be explained and redeemed in the next movies. We don't know exactly what happened. There was some threat that Luke never realized, which is what we want so there is a conflict. Luke just being all powerful with no consequences would be boring. We don't want him to be Superman.  Grin But as for the 3rd Death Star and the New Republic trying to blow it up at the end is a bit repetitive. It was fun the first time seeing it because I was finally seeing a SW movie that's not the PT, but that wore off after the first viewing. Now I just wish they had a different 3rd act that didn't seem rushed and uninspired. Or at least don't succeed in blowing it up this time. Maybe the bad guys finally built a space station that can't be destroyed with one quick battle. Okay now I'm starting to hate this movie a little now that I'm talking about it lol.

As for Poe surviving at the end, I don't know if that really hurt the story. That is the actor wisely securing his career in a very successful franchise. I think we would all do the same thing. Though if his character seems to get in the way of what could have been more interesting scenes then I would be annoyed. And I don't even get where we are with kyber crystals and all that. Is the crystals turning a certain color based on your emotion still a thing? Those are changes I can do without.
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 09:36:20 PM »


I think some of what went on with Luke and looking all his students could be explained and redeemed in the next movies. We don't know exactly what happened. There was some threat that Luke never realized, which is what we want so there is a conflict. Luke just being all powerful with no consequences would be boring. We don't want him to be Superman.  Grin But as for the 3rd Death Star and the New Republic trying to blow it up at the end is a bit repetitive. It was fun the first time seeing it because I was finally seeing a SW movie that's not the PT, but that wore off after the first viewing. Now I just wish they had a different 3rd act that didn't seem rushed and uninspired. Or at least don't succeed in blowing it up this time. Maybe the bad guys finally built a space station that can't be destroyed with one quick battle. Okay now I'm starting to hate this movie a little now that I'm talking about it lol.

As for Poe surviving at the end, I don't know if that really hurt the story. That is the actor wisely securing his career in a very successful franchise. I think we would all do the same thing. Though if his character seems to get in the way of what could have been more interesting scenes then I would be annoyed. And I don't even get where we are with kyber crystals and all that. Is the crystals turning a certain color based on your emotion still a thing? Those are changes I can do without.
True. But I never said Luke was all powerful. I just expected a Jedi grand master not to turn tail so easily. The idea of Luke is that he was no slouch with a saber. He went toe-toe with Vader twice and survived, when once was no small feat. I just don't see him losing to an emo boy band. But as you say, hopefully the story will be redeemed in the next 2 installments.

Ugh. Don't get started on that dumb-ass super weapon. Angry Jar Jar was a better plot point, and made way more sense. SKB offended me on every level.

Star Wars movie that's not the PT?

I agree. Why can't the bad guys ever get a competent engineer that knows how to double and triple check for design flaws, so something small can't get through.  Wink

Welcome to my hell. This was all crap that was rolling through my head the first time I watched it. And then to add injury to insult, they killed Han.


No. Poe wasn't supposed to survive the end. He wasn't supposed to survive the escape from the FO. That's why Finn couldn't find him. Personally I thought Poe was a contrivance. Good looking ace fighter pilot, and dammit....he's just a real swell guy. <puke> Like when he shows up again in the skies over Maz's place, the TIEs are literally flying into his path to be shot down. It takes five kills to make an ace, and he literally hits that in a 5sec sequence. Not even Luke or Wedge were that good, unless they're plowing through a swarm formation.  Wink

I would concede to a canon change that crystal color changes over time based on the user's mindset. This would allot for the various "paths" within the Jedi Order. But current DCBS has it that color is infused through direct meditation. DS users can't find kybers so they have to steal them and break their will or something stupid resulting in the crystal "crying" and turning red. A) If the saber still kills, who cares what color the balde is, and B) IT'S A ROCK. It doesn't have a say in who uses it.

I'm telling you. Disney is out to destroy our beloved franchise. But I have a Grand Plan that will set everything right. And ironically leave the galaxy under the rule of a Sith. Wink
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ithekro
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 10:54:40 PM »

It is confirmed that it is Hera Syndulla in R1 and that she is a general by then.  Generals are seen to be in command of starfighter wings in Star Wars and it was like that in the old old EU days.  We see one in the flesh as Blue Leader in R1 even.  Wedge Antilles was a General in charge of Rogue Wing by the time of the Dark Empire comic series.

As for the kyber crystals, I don't think it says that a Sith can't find them, or has to steal them, just that they must dominate them, which turns them red.  That suits Sith ways as far as I can tell.  Dominating is a thing Sith are known for, and dominating the crystal to empower yourself in battle with a lightsaber sounds very Sith-like.  A Sith would take what they want and dominate it.  Sounds perfectly reasonable that they would to this for crystals as well.  Sounds very Darth Maul.

If you are upset that its not just a rock anymore, well tough, this is fantasy, not science fiction.  Having a living crystal is not all that far off in a fantasy settings, and the old Star Wars EU had living sentient crystal species in it anyway.  That kyber crystals are alive enough for the Force to work through it is enough to make them special to people with an affinity or belief in the Force, which is also a mystical fantasy setting thing.
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buddygroove
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 01:46:53 AM »

PT: Prequel Trilogy

OT: Original Trilogy

ST: Sequel Trilogy


One reason Luke could have been defeated by Kylo and the Knights of Ren and left is because he may have found it hard to kill his nephew and maybe he was saving the last Jedi, Rey. And perhaps there was someone more powerful there to help kill all of Luke's students.
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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 03:13:54 PM »

PT: Prequel Trilogy

OT: Original Trilogy

ST: Sequel Trilogy
Thanks for clarifying.

Quote
One reason Luke could have been defeated by Kylo and the Knights of Ren and left is because he may have found it hard to kill his nephew and maybe he was saving the last Jedi, Rey. And perhaps there was someone more powerful there to help kill all of Luke's students.
True. In the immortal words of Johnny 5, "More input."

It is confirmed that it is Hera Syndulla in R1 and that she is a general by then.  Generals are seen to be in command of starfighter wings in Star Wars and it was like that in the old old EU days.  We see one in the flesh as Blue Leader in R1 even.  Wedge Antilles was a General in charge of Rogue Wing by the time of the Dark Empire comic series.
Cool. Thanks.

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As for the kyber crystals, I don't think it says that a Sith can't find them, or has to steal them, just that they must dominate them, which turns them red.  That suits Sith ways as far as I can tell.  Dominating is a thing Sith are known for, and dominating the crystal to empower yourself in battle with a lightsaber sounds very Sith-like.  A Sith would take what they want and dominate it.  Sounds perfectly reasonable that they would to this for crystals as well.  Sounds very Darth Maul.
It's a rock. If I pick it up, consider it dominated. It would be infinitely easier NTM more practical to just synthesize one that is compliant.

Quote
If you are upset that its not just a rock anymore, well tough, this is fantasy, not science fiction.  Having a living crystal is not all that far off in a fantasy settings, and the old Star Wars EU had living sentient crystal species in it anyway.  That kyber crystals are alive enough for the Force to work through it is enough to make them special to people with an affinity or belief in the Force, which is also a mystical fantasy setting thing.
Spaceships. Lasers. Robots. Aliens. How could I have possibly mistaken it for sci-fi? Roll Eyes If you are implying that kyber crystals are a living species, then that would also imply that the Jedi are slavers. Also, Han and Finn are not Force users. One didn't believe, and one was clueless. Yet both managed to activate the same saber, in a canon setting. There is no connection between the crystal and the wielder, which is the same argument I've made as to why open crystal chambers are a fluff piece liability in saber design. Also, Hondo was able to activate Dooku's. The saber thief was able to activate Ahsoka's. And I believe Padme activated Anakin's. Viszla used that black abomination. Its a piece of hardware, no more choosy than a blaster or a pocket knife.
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ithekro
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« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2017, 08:52:08 PM »

Trappings of science fiction, but it has been fantasy from day one.  Even from Lucas's mouth when the OT was being made.  It comes out in pretty much all the making of specials of the 70s and 80s.

A rock that the Force flows through that apparently does so in ways other rocks don't.  Does it stop someone from using a lightsaber?  No.  Does it matter if the user knows how to use the Force? No.   We are even given an explicit explanation in a recent Rebels episode when a non-force user is learning and connecting with a lightsaber (specifically the Darksaber and Sabine Wren).  The force flows through all living things.  A simple rock is not living, is it.  There for kyber crystals, for whatever reason, are considered alive.  Or at least that is the implication.   Therefore it is not just a rock.  If it was, than no one in there universe would really give a damn, or they would use something else.  But they don't.  The Empire strip mines, scavenges, steals, and claims as many kyber crystals as it possibly can for the Death Star and other weapons systems.   That the Jedi connect with the crystals through the Force seems to imply that the crystals share what I suppose could be considered a symbiotic relationship with the Jedi.  The Sith, or perhaps just the Dark Side, do not harbor as much good will for the crystals and thus must dominate them into submission to the Sith's will.   If you want to claim an act of slavery, that will be it.   It seems that it is possible to use a lightsaber just fine with or without being connected to the crystal.  However it appear to be easier to use it if on is connected with the crystal.   My impression is that the Sith lightsabser would even better than the Jedi lightsabers because they can impose their will on the crystals and order them to be the superior blade.   Thus you have red lightsabers that sometimes can break through Jedi blades.  The more powerful kyber crystal that is dominated results in a more powerful Sith blade than cannot be stopped by a mire Jedi's lightsaber.

Because this is fantasy, a sword is not just a piece of crafted metal hardware.   It must also be magical that sometimes has a personality or at least a will of its own (see some versions of Excalibur and the like).  Thus you have laser swords that are magical and hold living crystals that make them work.  That is where we stand today in Star Wars.  People might not like it, but that is what it is, today.

I don't recall ever seeing an open crystal chamber in canon (or anywhere in Star Wars outside the internet for that matter).
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« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2017, 09:27:17 PM »

Trappings of science fiction, but it has been fantasy from day one.  Even from Lucas's mouth when the OT was being made.  It comes out in pretty much all the making of specials of the 70s and 80s.

A rock that the Force flows through that apparently does so in ways other rocks don't.  Does it stop someone from using a lightsaber?  No.  Does it matter if the user knows how to use the Force? No.   We are even given an explicit explanation in a recent Rebels episode when a non-force user is learning and connecting with a lightsaber (specifically the Darksaber and Sabine Wren).  The force flows through all living things.  A simple rock is not living, is it.  There for kyber crystals, for whatever reason, are considered alive.  Or at least that is the implication.   Therefore it is not just a rock.  If it was, than no one in there universe would really give a damn, or they would use something else.  But they don't.  The Empire strip mines, scavenges, steals, and claims as many kyber crystals as it possibly can for the Death Star and other weapons systems.   That the Jedi connect with the crystals through the Force seems to imply that the crystals share what I suppose could be considered a symbiotic relationship with the Jedi.  The Sith, or perhaps just the Dark Side, do not harbor as much good will for the crystals and thus must dominate them into submission to the Sith's will.   If you want to claim an act of slavery, that will be it.   It seems that it is possible to use a lightsaber just fine with or without being connected to the crystal.  However it appear to be easier to use it if on is connected with the crystal.   My impression is that the Sith lightsabser would even better than the Jedi lightsabers because they can impose their will on the crystals and order them to be the superior blade.   Thus you have red lightsabers that sometimes can break through Jedi blades.  The more powerful kyber crystal that is dominated results in a more powerful Sith blade than cannot be stopped by a mire Jedi's lightsaber.

Because this is fantasy, a sword is not just a piece of crafted metal hardware.   It must also be magical that sometimes has a personality or at least a will of its own (see some versions of Excalibur and the like).  Thus you have laser swords that are magical and hold living crystals that make them work.  That is where we stand today in Star Wars.  People might not like it, but that is what it is, today.

I don't recall ever seeing an open crystal chamber in canon (or anywhere in Star Wars outside the internet for that matter).

As far as sci-fi vs. fantasy, trust me, it is sci-fi. That's why whenever you find SW in a book store, it's in sci-fi, not fantasy. The Force is the only aspect of it that is fantasy. SW was a bridge between the 2 genres, but it favored sci-fi. I don't care what Lucas says. If he wanted it to be fantasy, he should have kept a tighter reign of the concept development.


And I quote:

"LIFE creates it. Makes it grow. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

"The Force is an energy field, created by all LIVING things."

I'm sure you're familiar with these. A rock is not a living thing. Therefore, it doesn't get an opinion.



BTW you are using the flawed logic of a DC cartoon to justify a BS DC concept. It's circular logic resulting in a paradox. If you want confuse a computer, that might work.

And if the Force had sway on who and how kyber crystals worked, then why did the Empire have no trouble slapping a bunch into the DS and killing untold millions? Mic dropped.

The "fantasy" is so complicated that the actual technology could be developed and more easily explained. Disney made an oops plain and simple. But instead of copping to it, they insist on compounding it into ill-conceived stupidity.
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« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2017, 08:45:31 AM »

Which is your opinion, but not what is current canon.   I am sorry but what is now is, and there is nothing you nor I can do to change what is currently canon, nor is it proper to ignore it.   It just is.


And for the record, the Empire did have trouble slapping kyber crystals into the Death Star, it took them twenty year to get the damn thing to work.   It wasn't the Death Star itself that took forever to get built, it was getting the Superlaser to work that took two decades.  The first Death Star was finished within ten years aside from its main weapon.

As for rocks that are alive....there were plenty in the EU.  

Anothian living crystals http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anothian_living_crystal
Crystal barnacle http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crystal_barnacle
Mygeetan whiteworm http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mygeetan_whiteworm
Storini glass prowler http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Storini_glass_prowler

Some were sentient species:
The Tsil (sentient crystal lifeform)  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tsil
Shard (sentient crystals that sometimes use droids) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shard
Silika (a somewhat more humanoid rock species) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Silika
B'rknaa (mineral lifeform) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/B%27rknaa
Gutretee (humanoid crystal lifeform where some are allied to the Rebel Alliance) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gutretee
Vaathkree (first mentioned in Heir to the Empire) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vaathkree_(species)

Some others rocks were force sensitive as well: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_crystal

And that's not even all of them.

So yes, a kyber crystal can be alive, because that is nothing new to Star Wars.  This is not a Disney Canon thing, this is a old EU thing that was brought into the DC to make the lightsabers fit Lucas' ideas of the lightsabers being special in some way.  They even seeded the kyber crystal concept specifically so they could use it as the reason the Death Star took so long to build, and why the Second Death Star was operational so quickly.


(As for the actual topic.  According to Yoda, each clone is unique in the Force, even if they all have the same face and same DNA.  Each is different in the Force.   A clone of either Skywalker would likely still have the high midiclorian counts, so the clones would have high Force potential, but would be different in the Force than their original genetic material hosts.   Clone limbs on the other hand, or lungs for that matter, would likely just be integrated into the original's body and merge in the Force as the original heals.)
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