Random Thoughts of Members (anything goes...well with in forum rules)

[ed_ification]

You forgot the 'a'.
That's almost what 'overrated' means. Just change "liked" to 'praised'. It's like everyone said that Black Panther was so great. Like it changed the world of movies. Unless there was something behind the scenes that I'm missing, it was merely another entertaining MCU installment. It wasn't bad, but I utterly fail to see it as "great".

Black Panther was a representation film.  Directed by an African-American, starring a cast of largely African descent, showcasing African cultures.

We had Blade, featuring an African-American star, but Wesley Snipes was largely the only character of color for the majority of the films, and we have Falcon, but Falcon is the only person of color in his film debut and is second fiddle to Cap in his first outing.  In Animation, we've had John Stewart in the DCAU.  In Star Wars, we had Lando for the longest time (now Finn, Poe, Rose are other people of color are also present).  Black Panther is a major motion picture with a huge budget.  On TV, I would say DC and Marvel have done well, with Black Lightning and Luke Cage, respectively.  Arguably, Star Wars' rival, Star Trek, has done the BEST in sci-fi in terms of representation of actors of various ethnicities throughout its run.

Representation in popular media is a HUGE thing.  Similar to how we have gotten more and more queer figures in media, and moved away from previous stereotypes, Black Panther opens the gates for more films to break traditional borders.

From that perspective, I would argue it is not overrated.

[Darth Silenoz]

Black Panther was a representation film.  Directed by an African-American, starring a cast of largely African descent, showcasing African cultures.

We had Blade, featuring an African-American star, but Wesley Snipes was largely the only character of color for the majority of the films, and we have Falcon, but Falcon is the only person of color in his film debut and is second fiddle to Cap in his first outing.  In Animation, we've had John Stewart in the DCAU.  In Star Wars, we had Lando for the longest time (now Finn, Poe, Rose are other people of color are also present).  Black Panther is a major motion picture with a huge budget.  On TV, I would say DC and Marvel have done well, with Black Lightning and Luke Cage, respectively.  Arguably, Star Wars' rival, Star Trek, has done the BEST in sci-fi in terms of representation of actors of various ethnicities throughout its run.

Representation in popular media is a HUGE thing.  Similar to how we have gotten more and more queer figures in media, and moved away from previous stereotypes, Black Panther opens the gates for more films to break traditional borders.

From that perspective, I would argue it is not overrated.

Very well said.-1
Being half African American, when I saw Black Panther it gave me a special feeling. I do however think it was just another solid MCU movie aside from that. So I can see how non African Americans could have missed that special feeling I got. There were African Americans buying tickets for other random African Americas because of the swell of pride they felt by being represented in a movie of that magnitude, and wanted all African Americans to see it and feel the same. That doesn't happen all the time. That's something special.

[ed_ification]

Very well said.-1
Being half African American, when I saw Black Panther it gave me a special feeling. I do however think it was just another solid MCU movie aside from that. So I can see how non African Americans could have missed that special feeling I got. There were African Americans buying tickets for other random African Americas because of the swell of pride they felt by being represented in a movie of that magnitude, and wanted all African Americans to see it and feel the same. That doesn't happen all the time. That's something special.

It also opens a lot of doors for aspiring African-American filmmakers, due to how much the movie made.  It also gives us a group of solid female characters (prior to this, the major MCU female figures would be Agent Carter, Jessica Jones, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Maria Hill, Jane Foster and Pepper Potts, each of whom is typically the only action hero in their movie proper.  We see Black Widow and Pepper work together, but Pepper isn't suiting up in IM2 in the same way) in the Milaje - we don't see a lot of the female characters prior to Black Panther acting in true groups, but then we have the Milaje, kicking butt throughout the movie.  The vibranium car brake in the South Korea sequence was AWESOME in theaters (reminded me of the truck flip in the Dark Knight, but different enough to not be derivative or trite).

[Ultra]

In my humble opinion, Black Panther did more to reinforce racial stereotypes than to shatter them. Representation is not such a good thing when your race is represented poorly. Just think for a minute what a backwards society Wakanda really is. Forget all the tech that the alien magic metal brought to them. Ponder the actual society. It's primitive and savage and always places women at such a disadvantage that none of them will ever lead the nation if a man decides to challenge. And of course, like so many other African totalitarians before him, the supreme leader of Wakanda has a personal guard comprised of nothing but hot women...

[Frizzenflyer]

Just putting this out there, The academy regularly awards some pretty meh films. As long as they don't get a huge release or aren't popular with the general public.

[Darth Silenoz]

In my humble opinion, Black Panther did more to reinforce racial stereotypes than to shatter them. Representation is not such a good thing when your race is represented poorly. Just think for a minute what a backwards society Wakanda really is. Forget all the tech that the alien magic metal brought to them. Ponder the actual society. It's primitive and savage and always places women at such a disadvantage that none of them will ever lead the nation if a man decides to challenge. And of course, like so many other African totalitarians before him, the supreme leader of Wakanda has a personal guard comprised of nothing but hot women...

That is a good point. I wasn't saying the representation was perfect, just that it was major. Sadly, I think I actually was too sucked into the spectacle of the whole thing to notice what you pointed out. I have to agree.

[ed_ification]

In my humble opinion, Black Panther did more to reinforce racial stereotypes than to shatter them. Representation is not such a good thing when your race is represented poorly. Just think for a minute what a backwards society Wakanda really is. Forget all the tech that the alien magic metal brought to them. Ponder the actual society. It's primitive and savage and always places women at such a disadvantage that none of them will ever lead the nation if a man decides to challenge. And of course, like so many other African totalitarians before him, the supreme leader of Wakanda has a personal guard comprised of nothing but hot women...

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  I don't think we see enough of Wakandan society to truly judge it - we see its leaders, certainly, and some of its ritual, but not the day to day lives of its people or the fullness of their spirituality.  Judging Wakanda on the fraction of the society that we see would be akin to viewing the United States society solely through looks at any of its Presidents and a fundamentalist church popular at the time.

And I don't mean to paint Wakanda as perfect.  Its xenophobia has, in ways, hindered mankind as a whole.

Even with its flaws, however, the film itself represents a cultural shift - while we have had African-American stars in films, and influential/successful African-American directors, we have not had an African-American film with this many African American stars with this level of funding.  John Singleton, Spike Lee, Tyler Perry and other African-American directors have all made critically acclaimed films with a focus on African Americans and their issues - but never with this level of backing.  Ryan Coogler's efforts here open the doors for other African Americans and people of African descent around the world.

At the end, film is an interpretative medium, and each of us will see things differently.  And, I doubt we'll change each other's minds here.

[Ultra]

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  I don't think we see enough of Wakandan society to truly judge it - we see its leaders, certainly, and some of its ritual, but not the day to day lives of its people or the fullness of their spirituality.  Judging Wakanda on the fraction of the society that we see would be akin to viewing the United States society solely through looks at any of its Presidents and a fundamentalist church popular at the time.

And I don't mean to paint Wakanda as perfect.  Its xenophobia has, in ways, hindered mankind as a whole.

Even with its flaws, however, the film itself represents a cultural shift - while we have had African-American stars in films, and influential/successful African-American directors, we have not had an African-American film with this many African American stars with this level of funding.  John Singleton, Spike Lee, Tyler Perry and other African-American directors have all made critically acclaimed films with a focus on African Americans and their issues - but never with this level of backing.  Ryan Coogler's efforts here open the doors for other African Americans and people of African descent around the world.

At the end, film is an interpretative medium, and each of us will see things differently.  And, I doubt we'll change each other's minds here.

I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement. Wakanda is a patriarchal, totalitarian, authoritarian, hereditary monarchy in which the monarch is Supreme Leader, Head of State, Head of Government, Head of the Military, etc. Wakanda is also a country where all the national wealth is owned by the monarch. Marvel makes it very clear that Black Panther is the richest dude ever, not from his own effort, but because all the wealth of Wakanda belongs to it's supreme ruler.

Everyone in Wakanda pledges unconditional loyalty to the Supreme Leader and does whatever he commands, even if it is detrimental to the country. Sound familiar? The society is so backwards that it settles any challenge to leadership with duels. DUELS. So the guy who is best at dueling will be best at governance?? Might makes right in Wakanda. Which is going to make it virtually impossible for a woman to ever lead the country unless she is a freak of nature. And it still doesn't ensure the leader will be any good at anything except fighting duels.

So this movie is saying, that even at their best, with magic technology and more money than God, this is the best government Africans can create? Which just so happens to be one of the worst governments mankind can create and something Europeans abandoned long ago? How is this good representation? I'm Korean. Do you think I look at the news and cheer that Kim Jong Un is on the screen because my race is being represented? No. I'm also a child of the 80's and grew up seeing black entertainers on TV and in movies my entire life. All-black cast comedies were the highest rated shows when I was growing up. I really don't see what is so groundbreaking about this.

[ed_ification]

I don't know that I would say hereditary - the 5 clans have a ritual opportunity for challenge as the film presents it.

And I might argue that it is better for two people to duel than to embroil a country in a civil war (even though the latter does ultimately occur).

I can understand and see your point, and it's fair - the character and his society was created by two white men in the 1960s, and in some aspects, has not aged well.  Had the current Marvel production team updated Wakanda to be more cosmopolitan and egalitarian, I think there likely would have been backlash from fans (the purists who insist that the stories be the way that they expect and have seen before).

But I also picture someone like young Whoopi Goldberg, who at the age of 9 saw Nichelle Nichols on Star Trek, and screamed to her family, "Everybody, come quick, there's a black lady on TV and she ain't no maid!"

My argument was popular American media, rather than news.  I would not argue that seeing the Kim family on the news is a good example of representation.

But, while we have the Kim family from news, widestream American media has also been filled with certain images of Asian people previously, in REALLY terrible stereotypical roles.  And we're starting to see more representation in popular media that is better for Asian people as well, as it gives wider exposure to those unique stories, for good or ill.

I'm a Caucasian American male - I am the textbook definition of privileged, and my worldview is routinely catered to in media.  But, in honesty, I like to see media from other cultures and worldviews - they inspire me, prompt me to learn.  I've gotten to see films from all over the world, talking about things like European Imperialism in Africa (Camp de Thiaroye, for those interested) among others.

I look at Black Panther through that view - that it will give other people/cultures, who I might not have heard from, an avenue to be heard.  It's not perfect by any means - but I think it can be a stepping stone for other stories.

If I may, could I please suggest that we take further discussion private, out of respect for those in the thread looking to have their random thoughts, if you wish to continue to discuss?

[ThreadJack]

Agreed.  The word "Overrated" I feel has been twisted to just mean "Everyone else likes it but I don't".  I'm not a huge fan of the Beatles but I know every accolade they receive was earned.  For Example...Star Wars (ANH)...it is always near the bottom of my ranking of Star Wars films (care to guess which is at the very bottom) only because I find it to be the least entertaining of the Star Wars films.  But I will not list it as overrated.

I did actually mean they're overrated. I know a lot of people, especially younger, who's reason for liking them amounts to "I was told that they're the greatest band ever, so I have to like them." I also don't really see how they "changed" anything, they got recognized for doing something that lots of others were doing before them, and at the time, they were just the first to go mainstream with it.

what? no Ozzy!?

I actually did forget to mention a few, namely Metallica, but Ozzie, Dio, Motorhead, The Sex Pistols, Megadeth, and Anthrax were bubble bands.... I enjoy their music but not sure I'd consider them great.

Also I'm really upset I forgot to include The Offspring....

[Ultra]

Also I'm really upset I forgot to include The Offspring....

Hey! Man you disrespectin' me??

[ThreadJack]

Hey! Man you disrespectin' me??

Gotta keep em separated....

[Frizzenflyer]

I am thinking about buying a Ranger I pass on my way to work every morning, I want something with a working heater.

[ThreadJack]

[Infinit01]

I feel that is was written for my wife. I’ll find like a thousand of time when I do laundry though.