Random Thoughts of Members (anything goes...well with in forum rules)

[Darth Logos]

Back then, I was strictly scientific and canon based. Someone immature opened the can in a bad way on my now deleted thread. That's my warning.

There have been a few threads shut down because some narrow minded nitwit got butt hurt and whined about it.

Assuming, of course, they did come from different sources.  Star Trek: TNG did have that episode that showed the Race that begat humans, Klingons and Vulcan/Romulans.   Perhaps it is similar in SW.  But that hasn't been addressed so we can only go on what has been shown and what has been shown is twi'leks and Humans can have children.  So it stands to reason they must have descended from a common origin

Don't get me wrong, Twi'leks are hot, and I'm all for spreading the love.  But I think one of the underlying issues in this concept is that both Kanan and Hera are typical specimens of their respective species (Force not withstanding). I would think the limitations of breeding would stem from differences in physiology, particularly cranial feature of the 2 species. Considering the genetic purity of each parent's species, I find it highly unlikely that either's genetics would take a back seat to the other's, resulting in more of a mix. For example, the offspring of an African and Caucasian almost always results in skin tone darker than Caucasian and lighter the African. Variations in shade from instance to instance is a given, but neither trait fully dominates.

[Lord_S_Gray]

Assuming, of course, they did come from different sources.  Star Trek: TNG did have that episode that showed the Race that begat humans, Klingons and Vulcan/Romulans.   Perhaps it is similar in SW.  But that hasn't been addressed so we can only go on what has been shown and what has been shown is twi'leks and Humans can have children.  So it stands to reason they must have descended from a common origin

Good point, its quite possible that some ancient race e.g. the Celstials took a base 'humanoid' species and modified them to serve in different environments, producing lots of humanoid species but with environmental variations, that would be a neat way to explain the SW species tendency to humanoid creatures dominating the (Known it must be remembered) galaxy.  IIRC they did as much with the Kiliks in a way making them basically a worker species to build their vast stations - Chiss also were said to be descended from a human colony evolving in isolation for a time i think.

There have been a few threads shut down because some narrow minded nitwit got butt hurt and whined about it.
Don't get me wrong, Twi'leks are hot, and I'm all for spreading the love.  But I think one of the underlying issues in this concept is that both Kanan and Hera are typical specimens of their respective species (Force not withstanding). I would think the limitations of breeding would stem from differences in physiology, particularly cranial feature of the 2 species. Considering the genetic purity of each parent's species, I find it highly unlikely that either's genetics would take a back seat to the other's, resulting in more of a mix. For example, the offspring of an African and Caucasian almost always results in skin tone darker than Caucasian and lighter the African. Variations in shade from instance to instance is a given, but neither trait fully dominates.

Presumably there would be sufficient reproductive technologies available that if a hybrid couldn't be conceived naturally it could be created like a clone mingling compatible sequences, that could result in one parents (ie the 'base' parents presumably egg side) characteristics dominating. Not sure if Jacen Syndulla is meant to be a 'natural' born hybrid though in which case i agree the traits he exhibits would be unusual, i would imagine him favoring the mother more given he's presumably influenced by Twi'lek hormones etc. more in utero.

[Darth Tepes]

There have been a few threads shut down because some narrow minded nitwit got butt hurt and whined about it.
Don't get me wrong, Twi'leks are hot, and I'm all for spreading the love.  But I think one of the underlying issues in this concept is that both Kanan and Hera are typical specimens of their respective species (Force not withstanding). I would think the limitations of breeding would stem from differences in physiology, particularly cranial feature of the 2 species. Considering the genetic purity of each parent's species, I find it highly unlikely that either's genetics would take a back seat to the other's, resulting in more of a mix. For example, the offspring of an African and Caucasian almost always results in skin tone darker than Caucasian and lighter the African. Variations in shade from instance to instance is a given, but neither trait fully dominates.

If we're talking strictly on physical traits I can agree I don't care for Jacen's appearance.  I would have preferred it be closer to the clone's children. 

[Darth Logos]

Presumably there would be sufficient reproductive technologies available that if a hybrid couldn't be conceived naturally it could be created like a clone mingling compatible sequences, that could result in one parents (ie the 'base' parents presumably egg side) characteristics dominating. Not sure if Jacen Syndulla is meant to be a 'natural' born hybrid though in which case i agree the traits he exhibits would be unusual, i would imagine him favoring the mother more given he's presumably influenced by Twi'lek hormones etc. more in utero.

Well I don't see a band of Rebels getting into state of the art medical facilities in order to have a love child. But I do agree with your in utero theory.

Although........one could theoretically use the Force to manipulate the genetic structure of an offspring and accommodate any abnormalities or incompatibilities. But I highly doubt the writers are intelligent enough to consider this course.

If we're talking strictly on physical traits I can agree I don't care for Jacen's appearance.  I would have preferred it be closer to the clone's children. 

It just strikes me as xenophobic to have Jacen look that human. Plus, it's one more chafing of the true fans, to resurrect yet another OG name in a less than worthy namesake.

[Taegin Roan]

But I highly doubt the writers are intelligent enough to consider this course.

I don't know. If anyone could, it would be Dave Filoni (or Timothy Zahn).

[Darth Logos]

I don't know. If anyone could, it would be Dave Filoni (or Timothy Zahn).

I'm still waiting.

[Lord_S_Gray]

Although........one could theoretically use the Force to manipulate the genetic structure of an offspring and accommodate any abnormalities or incompatibilities. But I highly doubt the writers are intelligent enough to consider this course.

"The Dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some considered unnatural."  Arguably Sith Alchemy/Magick was an example of this in some of the creatures they created and modified (e.g. Karness Muur Rackghoul plague is essentially a Force based 'virus' that causes mutations), also Shatter point healing (e.g. used by Cade Skywalker) arguably worked on a cellular level - hence to manipulate gene's etc. would be an extension of this (albeit requiring extreme power, knowledge of genetics and mental ability).  Of course that's all non canon now....

Side note the interaction of Force and biology, and use of one to perfect (or pervert) the other is something central to my fan fiction so have looked into this very topic at length.

It just strikes me as xenophobic to have Jacen look that human. Plus, it's one more chafing of the true fans, to resurrect yet another OG name in a less than worthy namesake.

If there was a valid explanation given for the predominance of human characteristics fine, but you're right otherwise it strikes as odd. 

Agreed 'Jacen' deserves better...just leave the names alone and let us old codgers have our EU fantasies intact!

[ThreadJack]

This argument would have merit if humans and Twi'leks both evolved from the same mixture (or an exceedingly similar mixture on thr order of 99.99999999999999% similar) of primordial amino acids.

What evidence supports this? So far canon evidence supports humans and Twi'lek evolving from a common ancestor, much like dogs and wolves. Also it's a fictional universe where a mystical energy field gives certain individuals super human abilities, with weapons and ships that are scientifically impossible(at least in our present time), that act in a way that is scientifically impossible, yet an alien and a human having a child is what draws the line?

[Jev Moldara]

What evidence supports this? So far canon evidence supports humans and Twi'lek evolving from a common ancestor, much like dogs and wolves. Also it's a fictional universe where a mystical energy field gives certain individuals super human abilities, with weapons and ships that are scientifically impossible(at least in our present time), that act in a way that is scientifically impossible, yet an alien and a human having a child is what draws the line?

You're right that dogs and wolves, along with coyotes, evolved from a common ancestor. What you are missing is that unlike humans and other primates, those canines are not in separate genetic branches. If they were,  they would not be able to interbreed, let alone produce fertile offspring. They are in the same genetic branch, but have different genealogical traits within that branch. As I said before, it's quite similar to human ethnicities. We are all homo sapiens, but there are subgroups within us, such as Caucasian, Middle Eastern, Asian, etc. Much like wolves, coyote, and dogs, we can interbreed with each other and have viable, fertile offspring.

On to the Twi'lek/Human hybrid. I'm not sure what canon evidence supports the Common Ancestor theory other than the crossbred children. If that's the only evidence, it's easily explained away with the superscience endemic to a sci-fi setting.

Even in Star Trek, where there is canonical evidence of a progenitor species for most of the humanoid species in the galaxy (The Progenitors), there were still species that required medical interference to create a child, Spock being the most famous example, as human blood is iron-based and Vulcan blood is copper-based. That indicates a fundamental differemce in the DNA of Sarek and Amanda that would have likely prevented the natural conception of a child, let alone any complications of carrying the child to term.

Star Wars is even further out there in terms of genetic incompatibility. The Galactic Republic was formed 25,000 years before ANH, and alien species existed for far longer than that (unless you subscribe to the idea that as soon as they achieved sentience, they were spacefaring and nice enough to form the Republic). So conservatively speaking, based on real world, by the time of The Clone Wars, humanity might have been around for  230,000 years (the earliest modern human remains on Earth date back 200,000 years plus 5,000 years to advance to the stars and eventually join a galaxy-spanning republic plus 25,000 years to get to the Clone Wars era). If you factor in a similar timeframe for other alien species, even a progentor race or a common ancestor is not going to be able to maintain genetic solidarity over the course of several hundred millennia. Genetic drift is too strong.

[ThreadJack]

You're right that dogs and wolves, along with coyotes, evolved from a common ancestor. What you are missing is that unlike humans and other primates, those canines are not in separate genetic branches. If they were,  they would not be able to interbreed, let alone produce fertile offspring. They are in the same genetic branch, but have different genealogical traits within that branch. As I said before, it's quite similar to human ethnicities. We are all homo sapiens, but there are subgroups within us, such as Caucasian, Middle Eastern, Asian, etc. Much like wolves, coyote, and dogs, we can interbreed with each other and have viable, fertile offspring.

On to the Twi'lek/Human hybrid. I'm not sure what canon evidence supports the Common Ancestor theory other than the crossbred children. If that's the only evidence, it's easily explained away with the superscience endemic to a sci-fi setting.

Even in Star Trek, where there is canonical evidence of a progenitor species for most of the humanoid species in the galaxy (The Progenitors), there were still species that required medical interference to create a child, Spock being the most famous example, as human blood is iron-based and Vulcan blood is copper-based. That indicates a fundamental differemce in the DNA of Sarek and Amanda that would have likely prevented the natural conception of a child, let alone any complications of carrying the child to term.

Star Wars is even further out there in terms of genetic incompatibility. The Galactic Republic was formed 25,000 years before ANH, and alien species existed for far longer than that (unless you subscribe to the idea that as soon as they achieved sentience, they were spacefaring and nice enough to form the Republic). So conservatively speaking, based on real world, by the time of The Clone Wars, humanity might have been around for  230,000 years (the earliest modern human remains on Earth date back 200,000 years plus 5,000 years to advance to the stars and eventually join a galaxy-spanning republic plus 25,000 years to get to the Clone Wars era). If you factor in a similar timeframe for other alien species, even a progentor race or a common ancestor is not going to be able to maintain genetic solidarity over the course of several hundred millennia. Genetic drift is too strong.

Okay, my original example was simply pointing out a real world example of how hybrids don't have one set appearance. That's all. I don't care about the sciency stuff, how inter-species hybrids work has zero bearing on my life. I was just mentioning a creative idea I had for a costume, and then gave an example of how a hybrid can have a differing mixture of characteristics from the each species, and you had to jump in and flex your intelligence muscles to tell me why that shouldn't be possible, and everyone came up with the weird science fiction lab fan theories to explain how a human Twi'lek hybrid could happen in a test tube, or via magic.

I'm not going that deep into an OG character's backstory, to explain to people at a con who are curious about my costume and characters appearance, why I have purple blotches on my face. Pretty much everyone will be like "oh one of her parents was a Twi'lek, cool" not "that shouldn't be possible, because....." (at least not to my face, or that's a super low move).

[Jev Moldara]

Okay, my original example was simply pointing out a real world example of how hybrids don't have one set appearance. That's all. I don't care about the sciency stuff, how inter-species hybrids work has zero bearing on my life. I was just mentioning a creative idea I had for a costume, and then gave an example of how a hybrid can have a differing mixture of characteristics from the each species, and you had to jump in and flex your intelligence muscles to tell me why that shouldn't be possible, and everyone came up with the weird science fiction lab fan theories to explain how a human Twi'lek hybrid could happen in a test tube, or via magic.

I'm not going that deep into an OG character's backstory, to explain to people at a con who are curious about my costume and characters appearance, why I have purple blotches on my face. Pretty much everyone will be like "oh one of her parents was a Twi'lek, cool" not "that shouldn't be possible, because....." (at least not to my face, or that's a super low move).

Okay, I was not bashing your idea at all. Please do not think I was. The entire purpose of my post had nothing to do with your idea and was meant merely to address the common misconception that dogs, wolves, and coyotes are separate species when, in fact, they are not. This misconception is so pervasive chiefly due to the misleading binomial nomenclature of the three animals (Canis lupus, Canis latrans, and canis familiaris). They are not separate nspecies at all. If they were, the best possible outcome of a coupling would be similar to what you see in big cats, such as the leopon, the liger, or the jagulep, none of which occur in nature even in places where the species share territory because "like is drawn to like" (they're all bred in captivirty, have a great chance at genetic defects and infertility, and may occasionally reproiduce).

After that, the Human/Twi'lek speculation was merely an intellectual exercise, and I did not say that it could never happen. I just said that given the way genetics work, the likelihood of it happening is small without outside assistance.

[Edon Bluewolf]

[ThreadJack]

Okay, I was not bashing your idea at all. Please do not think I was. The entire purpose of my post had nothing to do with your idea and was meant merely to address the common misconception that dogs, wolves, and coyotes are separate species when, in fact, they are not. This misconception is so pervasive chiefly due to the misleading binomial nomenclature of the three animals (Canis lupus, Canis latrans, and canis familiaris). They are not separate nspecies at all. If they were, the best possible outcome of a coupling would be similar to what you see in big cats, such as the leopon, the liger, or the jagulep, none of which occur in nature even in places where the species share territory because "like is drawn to like" (they're all bred in captivirty, have a great chance at genetic defects and infertility, and may occasionally reproiduce).

After that, the Human/Twi'lek speculation was merely an intellectual exercise, and I did not say that it could never happen. I just said that given the way genetics work, the likelihood of it happening is small without outside assistance.

I'm glad you weren't dumping on my idea. I apologize for jumping down your throat. 

[ed_ification]

Okay, I was not bashing your idea at all. Please do not think I was. The entire purpose of my post had nothing to do with your idea and was meant merely to address the common misconception that dogs, wolves, and coyotes are separate species when, in fact, they are not. This misconception is so pervasive chiefly due to the misleading binomial nomenclature of the three animals (Canis lupus, Canis latrans, and canis familiaris). They are not separate nspecies at all. If they were, the best possible outcome of a coupling would be similar to what you see in big cats, such as the leopon, the liger, or the jagulep, none of which occur in nature even in places where the species share territory because "like is drawn to like" (they're all bred in captivirty, have a great chance at genetic defects and infertility, and may occasionally reproiduce).

Technically speaking, they ARE separate species.  They are a common genus (Canis), but different species (lupus, latrans, familiaris).

[Darth Logos]

Okay, my original example was simply pointing out a real world example of how hybrids don't have one set appearance.

True, some hybrids' appearance is dependent on what species each parent is. In the case of lion-tiger hybrids the results are night and day. The offspring sired by a tiger result in a tigon and don't get much bigger than 400lbs and have more prominent stripes. Those sired by a lion, a liger, can get upward of 1000lbs and 10ft in length.